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gyth
657 Posts
Out of my own curiosity, can someone who does not believe in objective morality explain how they have managed to escape Nihilism? If I think something is meaningful, it is. And while thats not objectively meaningful, its doesn't matter what type of meaningful it is for life to be worth living. We are born into a struggle to avoid pain. Only once the struggle subsides do we worry about whether its meaningful. I think the first sign of self-aware AI will be suicide. | ||
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
On May 07 2010 00:36 gyth wrote: If I think something is meaningful, it is. And while thats not objectively meaningful, its doesn't matter what type of meaningful it is for life to be worth living. We are born into a struggle to avoid pain. Only once the struggle subsides do we worry about whether its meaningful. I think the first sign of self-aware AI will be suicide. If we are born into a struggle to avoid pain, how does the "search" become meaningful when the end is death (pain)? | ||
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tinman
United States287 Posts
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
On May 07 2010 02:20 tinman wrote: gnosis i want you to know that i do sincerely like you. you and your benighted religious ways! Oh, that damned religion of mine! If only I could break out of the middle ages and breathe the air of Enlightenment  But seriously, I do enjoy your posts. | ||
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Yurebis
United States1452 Posts
On May 06 2010 21:46 XeliN wrote: Out of my own curiority, can someone who does not believe in objective morality explain how they have managed to escape Nihilism? (If in your mind you have..) make up your own shit works 4 me think about it, if god doesn't exist, and humanity was able to contrive the craziest moral codes on the illusion that it did, god didn't make those codes at all, did it. No, it was man, and thats evidence that man is perfectly able to guide itself for its own goals (duh should be obvious) | ||
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tinman
United States287 Posts
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gyth
657 Posts
If we are born into a struggle to avoid pain, how does the "search" become meaningful when the end is death (pain)? How is it meaningful to avoid pain... You avoided pain, thats it, thats your motivation. | ||
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
On May 07 2010 04:29 gyth wrote: How is it meaningful to avoid pain... You avoided pain, thats it, thats your motivation. I don't know if my PM answered your question, but what I mean is that death is a pain in itself, actually, the final pain. So ultimately, we all fail. | ||
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InfeSteD
United States4658 Posts
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Yurebis
United States1452 Posts
On May 07 2010 04:46 Gnosis wrote: I don't know if my PM answered your question, but what I mean is that death is a pain in itself, actually, the final pain. So ultimately, we all fail. What if someone is born with a neurological defect that prevents him from ever feeling any pain? And masochists? Do they win instead? | ||
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
On May 07 2010 05:14 Yurebis wrote: What if someone is born with a neurological defect that prevents him from ever feeling any pain? And masochists? Do they win instead? Depends what is meant by pain, i.e. physical, emotional, etc. To clarify my comment above, I only ask (he may not define death as pain) to see if it's the same thought process that would have led to Camus' declaration that suicide is the (most basic?) philosophical question . | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17868 Posts
And how on earth would suicide become the most basic philosophical question? That would be a "What is?" in my book, from there it's a very long way to get to questions about suicide... | ||
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
On May 07 2010 09:41 Manit0u wrote: Couldn't you guys take it to the PM? This thread got ridiculously boring and seriously off topic... And how on earth would suicide become the most basic philosophical question? That would be a "What is?" in my book, from there it's a very long way to get to questions about suicide... Camus saw existence as absurd, a universe ultimately lacking meaning. So for him the first and most basic question was "should I, or should I not, commit suicide?" If we choose not to commit suicide, thereby choosing to cope with an absurd existence, then we must entertain all other questions. | ||
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gyth
657 Posts
I don't know if my PM answered your question, but what I mean is that death is a pain in itself, actually, the final pain. So ultimately, we all fail. Indeed It is not whether we win or lose in an ultimate sense, but that the daily trials give us reason to keep living. From a quick internet search I think I do agree with Camus' take on Sisyphus. But I'm so poorly read I can't be sure.  | ||
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XazXio
United States356 Posts
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
On May 07 2010 09:49 gyth wrote: Indeed It is not whether we win or lose in an ultimate sense, but that the daily trials give us reason to keep living. From a quick internet search I think I do agree with Camus' take on Sisyphus. But I'm so poorly read I can't be sure. You might, from the sounds of things. Give the book a read if you have the opportunity, it would probably interest you (take a look at Sartre while you're at it) and help you develop your philosophy a little more. Personally it's not a belief I could hold, I'd always be looking at end (death) and wondering why the daily trials even matter, why living even matters. But, apparently this thread has gotten boring, so I'll keep my comments there. | ||
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Lixler
United States265 Posts
On May 07 2010 09:49 gyth wrote: Indeed It is not whether we win or lose in an ultimate sense, but that the daily trials give us reason to keep living. From a quick internet search I think I do agree with Camus' take on Sisyphus. But I'm so poorly read I can't be sure. Camus seems like he should be in favor of suicide (or at least heavy intoxication). He claims that the only response to the absurd (his term for nihilism) is to try not to think about it. Which just seems like a weak philosophy all around. | ||
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Gnosis
Scotland912 Posts
On May 07 2010 09:57 Lixler wrote: Camus seems like he should be in favor of suicide (or at least heavy intoxication). He claims that the only response to the absurd (his term for nihilism) is to try not to think about it. Which just seems like a weak philosophy all around. It was, he was heavily criticized for it. | ||
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gyth
657 Posts
Choice three (in Camus’ view the only authentic and valid solution) is simply to accept absurdity, or better yet to embrace it, and to continue living. Since the absurd in his view is an unavoidable, indeed defining, characteristic of the human condition, the only proper response to it is full, unflinching, courageous acceptance. Life, he says, can “be lived all the better if it has no meaning.” | ||
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Lixler
United States265 Posts
On May 07 2010 10:02 gyth wrote: http://www.iep.utm.edu/camus/#SSH5c.v Choice three (in Camus’ view the only authentic and valid solution) is simply to accept absurdity, or better yet to embrace it, and to continue living. Since the absurd in his view is an unavoidable, indeed defining, characteristic of the human condition, the only proper response to it is full, unflinching, courageous acceptance. Life, he says, can “be lived all the better if it has no meaning.” Doesn't that seem lacking to you? Any form of "acceptance" would mean suicide. If someone lives their life, they will have things that have value to them, so it's impossible to embrace the Absurd (without acting crazy, that is). | ||
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