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The European Debt Crisis and the Euro - Page 6

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
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baal
Profile Joined March 2003
10708 Posts
March 02 2010 04:31 GMT
#101
One question Rothbardian ... are you god?
Im back, in pog form!
Rothbardian
Profile Joined January 2010
United States497 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 04:52:12
March 02 2010 04:43 GMT
#102
On March 02 2010 13:31 baal wrote:
One question Rothbardian ... are you god?


Over myself :p

If you are talking about my reasoning and use of apodictic / Aristotelian logic, well, that is just self-evident of course!

I really like Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. Kant/Aristotle > Hume. Rationalism and Logic > Empiricism. Hence, why I love the Socratic Method. Socrates was a beast.
"A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state." - Isabel Paterson <3
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 05:04:02
March 02 2010 04:57 GMT
#103
Watching Keynesians, Friedmanites, and Austrians going at each other is always hilarious. Especially statements like these:

As Peter Schiff says, Austrian Economics is Economics, and Keynesians and Monetarists are the proverbial astrologers to the Austrians astronomy.

lol, in a previous economics thread, someone else said pretty much the same thing except in reverse, with something like "Austrians don't live in reality".
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
March 02 2010 05:07 GMT
#104
Watching communists, socialists, and fascist kill each other is even more hilarious. At least the economics keep it somewhat civil.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
March 02 2010 05:14 GMT
#105
I dunno, at least the politicians don't claim to be scientists.
Rothbardian
Profile Joined January 2010
United States497 Posts
March 02 2010 05:37 GMT
#106
On March 02 2010 14:14 koreasilver wrote:
I dunno, at least the politicians don't claim to be scientists.


So Science can only be empirical and Positivist, but logical axioms and Aristotlean logic is not science? Only knowledge can be gained from observation and not from self-evident a priorism?

I consider myself a Social Scientist, specializing in Economics and Philosophy.
"A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state." - Isabel Paterson <3
WWJDD
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
India342 Posts
March 02 2010 05:41 GMT
#107
America has more debt than the Euro. The dollar will go before the Euro.
WWJDD??
WWJDD
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
India342 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 05:43:05
March 02 2010 05:42 GMT
#108
Also Austrian economists are idiots. Especially Peter Schiff.
WWJDD??
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 05:45:06
March 02 2010 05:43 GMT
#109
From what I heard, I don't think Austrians consider themselves scientists. It's more like social philosophers.

There is also no science of philosophy.

The Keynesians and Monetarists style themselves scientists.

edit:
I see there was no argument against politicians murdering people. That's what I like to see.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
Rothbardian
Profile Joined January 2010
United States497 Posts
March 02 2010 05:43 GMT
#110
On March 02 2010 14:41 WWJDD wrote:
America has more debt than the Euro. The dollar will go before the Euro.


The Dollar is the world's reserve currency, therefore, its my postulation that the Euro will go before the Dollar, and the Yen before the Euro. It is all, but enivitable though that all three currencies will die, like all fiat currencies do.
"A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state." - Isabel Paterson <3
Rothbardian
Profile Joined January 2010
United States497 Posts
March 02 2010 05:46 GMT
#111
On March 02 2010 14:43 TanGeng wrote:
From what I heard, I don't think Austrians consider themselves scientists. It's more like social philosophers.

There is also no science of philosophy.

The Keynesians and Monetarists style themselves scientists.

edit:
I see there was no argument against politicians murdering people. That's what I like to see.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard135.html#2

Natural Law as Science - Murray Rothbard
"A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state." - Isabel Paterson <3
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
March 02 2010 05:47 GMT
#112
Economists can fiddle around with their models as much as they want, but it will never be just like they say it is. The Friedmanites have tried to do that forever but it's pretty apparent that the work just doesn't work the way their pretty models do. The same goes for the Keynesians and the Austrians, although not as extremely, as they don't rely as much on brute mathematical models and theories. Knowledge isn't something that can be gained from only observation, but to say that philosophy is a science is a woeful stretch.
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 05:55:52
March 02 2010 05:49 GMT
#113
On March 02 2010 14:43 Rothbardian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2010 14:41 WWJDD wrote:
America has more debt than the Euro. The dollar will go before the Euro.


The Dollar is the world's reserve currency, therefore, its my postulation that the Euro will go before the Dollar, and the Yen before the Euro. It is all, but enivitable though that all three currencies will die, like all fiat currencies do.


Nah no way to make a prediction of order based on just that. Euro is more likely to fail because key countries of the EU abandoning it. The Yen is kind of strange because of the strong savings of the Japanese. Japanese government is more likely to fail to deliver on its promised social programs like health care (inverted population distribution) than the Yen fail. That's a while in future. US dollar is most likely to inflate because of debt monetization.


As far as I can tell, Austrians have no equations to describe macro. Keynesians have their short run equations. Monetarists have another set of short run equations. Short run equations start becoming obsolete the moment they are published due to built in expectation of the marketplace.

There is a good reason why economic equations fail to predict the economy, and one of the reasons is one of the schools doesn't have any. You're not very informed, koreasilver.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
SoLaR[i.C]
Profile Blog Joined August 2003
United States2969 Posts
March 02 2010 06:00 GMT
#114
Rothbardian, I'm a big fan of your posts in threads like these. A few quick questions:

(1) How old are you and in what setting did you learn so much about this particular aspect of economics?

(2) Can you point me in the direction of a very "broad," yet interesting book regarding Austrian Economics? Maybe something written about its historical basis as well as it main points?
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
March 02 2010 06:10 GMT
#115
I thought Austrian Economics was based on the principle that you can't test economic theory because you can't isolate people without changing their actions...I thought the theories were mainly based on logic rather than experimentation.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
March 02 2010 06:15 GMT
#116
On March 02 2010 15:10 Incognito wrote:
I thought Austrian Economics was based on the principle that you can't test economic theory because you can't isolate people without changing their actions...I thought the theories were mainly based on logic rather than experimentation.


I would be inclined to agree with you. That's the reason they fall under philosophy rather than science. No experimentation possible only case studies and logic.

Speaking of which there are a lot of other sciences that don't deserve to be called science - all of the social sciences pretty much.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 06:34:05
March 02 2010 06:27 GMT
#117
On March 02 2010 14:49 TanGeng wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2010 14:43 Rothbardian wrote:
On March 02 2010 14:41 WWJDD wrote:
America has more debt than the Euro. The dollar will go before the Euro.


The Dollar is the world's reserve currency, therefore, its my postulation that the Euro will go before the Dollar, and the Yen before the Euro. It is all, but enivitable though that all three currencies will die, like all fiat currencies do.


Nah no way to make a prediction of order based on just that. Euro is more likely to fail because key countries of the EU abandoning it. The Yen is kind of strange because of the strong savings of the Japanese. Japanese government is more likely to fail to deliver on its promised social programs like health care (inverted population distribution) than the Yen fail. That's a while in future. US dollar is most likely to inflate because of debt monetization.


As far as I can tell, Austrians have no equations to describe macro. Keynesians have their short run equations. Monetarists have another set of short run equations. Short run equations start becoming obsolete the moment they are published due to built in expectation of the marketplace.

There is a good reason why economic equations fail to predict the economy, and one of the reasons is one of the schools doesn't have any. You're not very informed, koreasilver.

The Austrians don't have any mathematics, but their assertions and theories that are standardized beliefs throughout the school pretty much are models. They have their own rhetoric on how they think the economy works.
Rothbardian
Profile Joined January 2010
United States497 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 06:37:45
March 02 2010 06:28 GMT
#118
On March 02 2010 15:00 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:
Rothbardian, I'm a big fan of your posts in threads like these. A few quick questions:

(1) How old are you and in what setting did you learn so much about this particular aspect of economics?

(2) Can you point me in the direction of a very "broad," yet interesting book regarding Austrian Economics? Maybe something written about its historical basis as well as it main points?


1) I'm 23, and I mostly learned about Austrianism through my own self-education. I have slowly built my library encompassing works in Philosophy, Economics, and History. I also have more libertarian Fiction too, like Heinlein, L. Neil Smith, Twain, Mencken, Robert Anton Wilson, J. Schulman, etc. I go to college for BS in Economic/Philosophy and minor in Finance, but generally, I learn way more on my own.

Books constitute capital. A library book lasts as long as a house, for hundreds of years. It is not, then, an article of mere consumption but fairly of capital, and often in the case of professional men, setting out in life, it is their only capital.
—Thomas Jefferson

2) Joseph Salerno has a great introduction to Austrian Economics as do FEE. Let me find them for you:

http://www.kickasstorrents.com/introduction-to-austrian-economics-t3599236.html -- J. Salerno

&

http://fee.org/library/?s=1&au=Israel Kirzner&ser=&key=
http://fee.org/library/?s=1&au=&ser=Intro to Austrian Economics&key=


As for general purposes:

mises.org
fee.org
http://praxeology.net/molinari.htm


You are your own best teacher :p
"A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state." - Isabel Paterson <3
Rothbardian
Profile Joined January 2010
United States497 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 06:35:34
March 02 2010 06:33 GMT
#119
On March 02 2010 15:10 Incognito wrote:
I thought Austrian Economics was based on the principle that you can't test economic theory because you can't isolate people without changing their actions...I thought the theories were mainly based on logic rather than experimentation.


Yes, logic however, is a science. I swear I had a great piece by Murray on this, but can't find it. I think it might have been one of his lectures, I'm not sure.

Here are a few pieces:

http://mises.org/rothbard/mantle.asp

Science, after all, means scientia, correct knowledge; it is older and wiser than the positivist-pragmatist attempt to monopolize the term.


http://mises.org/rothbard/praxeology.pdf


Praxeology is the distinctive methodology of the Austrian school. The term was first applied to the Austrian method by Ludwig von Mises, who was not only the major architect and elaborator of this methodology but also the economist who most fully and successfully applied it to the construction of economic theory. 1 While the praxeological method is, to say the least, out of fashion in contemporary economics as well as in social science generally and in the philosophy of science it was the basic method of the earlier Austrian school and also of a considerable segment of the older classical school, in particular of J.B. Say and Nassau W. Senior. 2
"A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state." - Isabel Paterson <3
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
March 02 2010 06:42 GMT
#120
Rothbardian can you make a blog guide on how to be ridiculously educated? With links to stuff you've studied? I'm sure 99% of TL would appreciate it.

If not please PM me with some basic stuff, I just started reading squashed philosophers, up to socrates talk about justice and the "perfect" society.
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
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