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Jobbies
Scotland72 Posts
On August 27 2009 21:12 Klive5ive wrote: This is really frustrating to watch. Diving wanker, there is absolutely no contact. He should get a 2 match ban at least. I hate Celtic usually, and would usually laugh at their misfortune, but that's out of order. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
Of course with the current system a 2match ban would be unprecedented; I was merely suggesting that ideally that's what should happen. | ||
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Z.Kw
China297 Posts
Man Utd next on the kill list  | ||
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HaFnium
United Kingdom1073 Posts
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white_box921
United Kingdom967 Posts
I am just questioning the actions taken by UEFA and the possible consequences. I just read an article and it raise more question. If a player dive during the match and the referee see it, he can get a yellow card. In this case, the ref got it wrong, and the tournament organisation (UEFA) decide that further actions can be taken (not yet, but possibility) and it will be a two match ban. So basically, the player suffers because the ref got the decision wrong, he gets (possibility) of a two match ban instead of a yellow card. I can say that if Eduardo dived, and he wanted to dive, he already know and is happy to take a yellow card, but a ban? And this is done case by case without any written rule. Also, they had a whole summer to introduce some sort of law, but didn't. Why suddenly change the rules when the season has already started? Has people not dived before? | ||
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On August 28 2009 01:47 white_box921 wrote: To make myself clear again, I agree that diving is out of order. I think all people want is just some consistency. I am just questioning the actions taken by UEFA and the possible consequences. I just read an article and it raise more question. If a player dive during the match and the referee see it, he can get a yellow card. In this case, the ref got it wrong, and the tournament organisation (UEFA) decide that further actions can be taken (not yet, but possibility) and it will be a two match ban. So basically, the player suffers because the ref got the decision wrong, he gets (possibility) of a two match ban instead of a yellow card. I can say that if Eduardo dived, and he wanted to dive, he already know and is happy to take a yellow card, but a ban? And this is done case by case without any written rule. Also, they had a whole summer to introduce some sort of law, but didn't. Why suddenly change the rules when the season has already started? Has people not dived before? Well UEFA are useless we already knew that. I disagree with your point that he is "being penalised because the ref didn't see it". He won and scored a penalty which could have greatly impacted the match (in this case it didn't). If you only yellow card retrospectively are you going to take the goal away too? Here's the champions league groups: Group A: Bayern Munich, Juventus, Bordeaux, Maccabi Haifa Group B: Manchester United, CSKA Moscow, Besiktas, Wolfsburg Group C: AC Milan, Real Madrid, Marseille, FC Zurich Group D: Chelsea, FC Porto, Atletico Madrid, APOEL Group E: Liverpool, Lyon, Fiorentina, Debrecen Group F: FC Barcelona, Inter Milan, Dinamo Kiev, FC Rubin Kazan Group G: Sevilla, Rangers, Stuttgart, Unirea Group H: Arsenal, AZ Alkmaar, Olympiakos, Standard All the British teams got easy groups, especially Rangers. This kind of sucks; I hope all of AC Milan, Real, Barca and Inter make it through. | ||
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
Group B: Manchester United, CSKA Moscow, Besiktas, Wolfsburg Group C: AC Milan, Real Madrid, Marseille, FC Zurich Group D: Chelsea, FC Porto, Atletico Madrid, APOEL Group E: Liverpool, Lyon, Fiorentina, Debrecen Group F: FC Barcelona, Inter Milan, Dinamo Kiev, FC Rubin Kazan Group G: Sevilla, Rangers, Stuttgart, Unirea Group H: Arsenal, AZ Alkmaar, Olympiakos, Standard I think A, D, and G are the only ones with 3 capable teams of going through. | ||
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fbs
United Kingdom2476 Posts
Wake me up for the knockout phase. | ||
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
So i forgot, does this mean teams from A-D won't meet E-H teams again until the finals or is there another draw later in the season? | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On August 28 2009 02:36 snarl wrote: As a Chelsea fan i think we got one of the hardest draws. As quarter finalists last yr Porto are by no means pushovers and Atletico Madrid are certainly dangerous. Liverpool is probably the only 1st pot club I wouldn't swap with. So i forgot, does this mean teams from A-D won't meet E-H teams again until the finals or is there another draw later in the season? They draw again and make sure no team from the same country can meet each other. | ||
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
Juve MU RM Chelsea Lyon!! Barca Sevilla Arsenal B: Bordeaux Wolfsburg AC Milan Athletico Liverpool Inter Rangers Olympiakos ![[image loading]](/staff/Fzero/draw.png) Just as an example of how the Knockout would work for anyone that doesn't know. They do a re-draw after the winner of that round and the next round too, so it isn't really a "bracket" that gets made. | ||
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rapture
Germany645 Posts
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
The A: B: thing is just Winners v Runner Ups.. sorry if that was confusing. | ||
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uberMatt
Canada659 Posts
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Jobbies
Scotland72 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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white_box921
United Kingdom967 Posts
On August 28 2009 02:06 Klive5ive wrote: Well UEFA are useless we already knew that. I disagree with your point that he is "being penalised because the ref didn't see it". He won and scored a penalty which could have greatly impacted the match (in this case it didn't). If you only yellow card retrospectively are you going to take the goal away too? hm... I don't really know. This is again going into dangerous territory, but I feel like typing, so nvm lets do this. Eduardo is kind of being penalised because the ref didn't see it. I still think it is true, because of the way we see people who dive. The strikers are also kind of in a limbo, where they will need to try to stay on their feet more and confess (if they don't want the ban) that this should not be a penalty. The same will never happen with a defender, Terry will not hold his hand up and say ' yes sir, that was a foul in the box'. Maybe I am not getting my message across, or I fail to understand myself (-_-"). But basically, the ref controls quite a lot, if he pulls out a card, can we still give the diver a retrospective ban? In my memory, in EPL, if a ref pulls out a yellow card on a very dangerous tackle for example, then that particular incident does not have the right to go to a review. On the other hand, if nothing was done, but the ref afterwards includes in his match report, the FA can go back and say, he deserve a red and a subsequent ban. This is kind of a strange system to say the least. Just giving him a yellow card or even a two match ban afterwards is not enough, there may still be players willing to 'take one for the team' especially in a very important game. Probably not going to happen, because they will get a really bad imagine, but not like Ronaldo care (especially if it is only a yellow card). Taking away the goal is really not going to work, especially in a CL match, because of the away goal rules. It is impossible to play not know the 'exact' scoreline during the match, and people may have different view on what is diving. There are always very obvious ones, but surely there are some very boarderline where people argue all day about it. I guess the most important point is when do we use the video review after a match? For example, if I have Ronaldo on my team, am I going to fall down more easily outside the box as well, because a free kick may not be a penalty, but it is for sure a cheap way to create a goal scoring oppourtunity. If a dive happens, does it matter where it was in the pitch? Does the end result matter? (so review is only possible when a goal is scored), Does the reaction of the play matter? Another Example, If a player trips himself, I think that was the case with Arsenal-Portsmouth (gallas incident), will that be a dive? I don't think so, BUT if the players (including the one who fall) and the manger go beserk and go right up into the ref's face, should we consider him diving? Not expecting an answer btw, just feel like typing because I am confused as fuck as well and would like to clear my mind. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
Simply because if there was nothing to gain by cheating then footballers wouldn't do it and we wouldn't have to watch pathetic scenes like the Eduardo incident. With that in mind it's different if you cheat and don't get away with it. If the ref gives a diver a yellow then you don't need to review it. If the player does manage to confuse the referee either by pretending to be injured, hit when they aren't or diving AND he gains an advantage by someone else getting sent off or getting a penalty then that player should be penalized retrospectively. | ||
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