EPT[War3] GomTV World Invitational - Page 10
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
But he's not here  I remember 1 game where the commentators were really excited. Th000 vs FoV on Turtle Rock, forgot when. Basically during the final clash Th000 ran his low hp hero around and evaded several coils which would kill, with Paladin shield (forgot the name) and the super Staff of Sanctuary passing, which is not as easy as it looks since your heroes need to be close by. They were screaming BI NAN!! BI NAN YA!! Staff of Sanctuary is literally translated into "evade disaster" Of course it is never comparable to SC screaming. But that was memorable for me. I remembered that ToD was kinda famous for being emo. If you think Orc is imba, why not just change to orc? i never get these WC3 people. As for me, switched whenever i think another race is better and i usually end up realising it's all balanced How did Moon make human heroes? | ||
520
United States2822 Posts
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
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anch
United States5457 Posts
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Goshawk.
United Kingdom5338 Posts
On June 21 2009 23:14 JieXian wrote: I remembered that ToD was kinda famous for being emo. If you think Orc is imba, why not just change to orc? i never get these WC3 people. As for me, switched whenever i think another race is better and i usually end up realising it's all balanced How did Moon make human heroes? Orc mirror isn't particularly great to play and besides what fun is it changing race anyway? Moon made a Dark Ranger, whose ultimate allows you to take control of a opponents unit. Link to the game: (Other parts are on youtube) On June 22 2009 03:06 anch wrote: R&S please, who made out of the group? + Show Spoiler + Group A: 1. TeD 2:1 2. FoV 2:1 3. Sky 1:2 4. HoT 1:2 Top two go through. TeD is first on map score. Group B to still be decided, though Moon is definitely through. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On June 21 2009 23:14 JieXian wrote: I remembered that ToD was kinda famous for being emo. If you think Orc is imba, why not just change to orc? i never get these WC3 people. As for me, switched whenever i think another race is better and i usually end up realising it's all balanced How did Moon make human heroes? No, like I said before, there is no reliable counter to the RNG, BM's crits are stupid as hell+the wide damage range on him makes it hard for you to properly react especially if it occurs at bad times in a team fight. The Orc player can just let the BM loose on whatever hero for a few seconds coming out of Windwalk, micro his troops, and then respond accordingly, add in whatever the t2 hero is, TC/SH, and the spiritwalkers, its stupid easy to score a quick kill on any unit if you are lucky enough. The only thing that other players playing against the Orc have is that they know what strategy is coming, its literally the same shit (unit composition) for almost all MUs. But all of that means shit when the BM crits your hero twice (on the upper end of his damage range + backstab damage) and force a TP despite you having the better positioning. And ToD's been on the receiving end of that bad luck one too many times. | ||
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anch
United States5457 Posts
i knew Sky was hopeless since he lost 2 matches, (like OSL ro16) | ||
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JudgeMathis
Cuba1286 Posts
On June 22 2009 07:39 Judicator wrote: No, like I said before, there is no reliable counter to the RNG, BM's crits are stupid as hell+the wide damage range on him makes it hard for you to properly react especially if it occurs at bad times in a team fight. The Orc player can just let the BM loose on whatever hero for a few seconds coming out of Windwalk, micro his troops, and then respond accordingly, add in whatever the t2 hero is, TC/SH, and the spiritwalkers, its stupid easy to score a quick kill on any unit if you are lucky enough. The only thing that other players playing against the Orc have is that they know what strategy is coming, its literally the same shit (unit composition) for almost all MUs. But all of that means shit when the BM crits your hero twice (on the upper end of his damage range + backstab damage) and force a TP despite you having the better positioning. And ToD's been on the receiving end of that bad luck one too many times. You do know that BM is a hero you can easily nuke and kill? I mean... I won't lie, I've seen a Blademaster (I forgot who did this) triple crit and kill a DK (all the crits were 300 dmg each but this blademaster had tons of + atk). | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On June 22 2009 07:39 Judicator wrote: No, like I said before, there is no reliable counter to the RNG, BM's crits are stupid as hell+the wide damage range on him makes it hard for you to properly react especially if it occurs at bad times in a team fight. The Orc player can just let the BM loose on whatever hero for a few seconds coming out of Windwalk, micro his troops, and then respond accordingly, add in whatever the t2 hero is, TC/SH, and the spiritwalkers, its stupid easy to score a quick kill on any unit if you are lucky enough. The only thing that other players playing against the Orc have is that they know what strategy is coming, its literally the same shit (unit composition) for almost all MUs. But all of that means shit when the BM crits your hero twice (on the upper end of his damage range + backstab damage) and force a TP despite you having the better positioning. And ToD's been on the receiving end of that bad luck one too many times. You don't get it. If you think orc is so imba? Why not use the imba race and try to gain an advantage? Because there isn't one to gain. I've been playing for 3 years, though just casually. Though i am not really good, but i definitely think I do know more than you, if you seriously think that ORC is imba. Classic UD have Coil + Nova - a huge nuke, which can finish off Heroes at about 1/3 hp (generalizing). Classic Human vs Orc style if they use AM + Beastmaster have insane amounts of summons which they usually use for tower rushing, or a 5 second stun from MK (but of course the stun can be evaded by the BM's ww) Classic NE VS ORC uses DH + Beastmaster. Dh burns the mana from and TC or SH and tanks and fights equally well with the BM and the naga slows stuff Moreover, NE and HU have Staff, which can instantly save units. Tell me it's not balanced now. But by classic, i mean the way it was usually played some time ago Oh ya. Thanks, i forgot about charm .. i have only seen charm used on bigger units and i totally forgot about it. | ||
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esla_sol
United States756 Posts
it used to be a pretty favorable undead matchup before the batrider/destro changes, but since then its been downhill for sure. as far as orc vs ne or orc vs hu, i think most people would tell you they are about even today, and mostly dependent on the maps they are played on. ted is one of the few undeads in the world that can beat orcs with his incredible timing and micro, but against lyn or grubby i would still call him an underdog, especially if its bo5. | ||
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FirstBorn
Romania3955 Posts
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esla_sol
United States756 Posts
moon vs infi fov vs ted best series so far | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On June 22 2009 14:01 JieXian wrote: You don't get it. If you think orc is so imba? Why not use the imba race and try to gain an advantage? Because there isn't one to gain. I've been playing for 3 years, though just casually. Though i am not really good, but i definitely think I do know more than you, if you seriously think that ORC is imba. Classic UD have Coil + Nova - a huge nuke, which can finish off Heroes at about 1/3 hp (generalizing). Classic Human vs Orc style if they use AM + Beastmaster have insane amounts of summons which they usually use for tower rushing, or a 5 second stun from MK (but of course the stun can be evaded by the BM's ww) Classic NE VS ORC uses DH + Beastmaster. Dh burns the mana from and TC or SH and tanks and fights equally well with the BM and the naga slows stuff Moreover, NE and HU have Staff, which can instantly save units. Tell me it's not balanced now. But by classic, i mean the way it was usually played some time ago Oh ya. Thanks, i forgot about charm .. i have only seen charm used on bigger units and i totally forgot about it. You can rant your life away but Orc is a bit on the imbalance. They were the only race that could keep up with NE during the NE reign for a reason. In general though it's not really the Orc itself that's imbalanced, it's the damn blademaster. The blademaster just can be too powerful during times of RNG and completely obliterate an enemy hero and force you to TP out of situation you sure as hell should have won. Then if you're UD you should just quit versus Orc anyway  | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4133 Posts
Since I enjoy watching warcraft and also played a bit to the extend that I know the units specifics and tech trees, however I cannot asses the imbalances so much, so can someone explain to me why Undeads are considered so much at disadvantage against Orcs? I mean undeads have good ground units as spiders&abominations, they can fight at the air with gargs and wirms/destroyers, their heroes are as good as versus any other race's heroes (they can coil/nova) , blademaster creeps them as much as he does any other heroes, so I cannot understand what makes them so behind? | ||
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JudgeMathis
Cuba1286 Posts
If you want to talk about IMBA go watch a WoW competition 3v3 arena teams (like 90% run RPM). | ||
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Goshawk.
United Kingdom5338 Posts
On June 22 2009 16:44 FirstBorn wrote: Okay, any war3 fans could recommend me some good games in this torunament ? I don't really a lot of time on my hands but I'm always willing to check out some war3 matches. I enjoyed Grubby VS Lyn, the longest games are the ones esla_sol posted pretty much. About WC3 balance: Balance really sucks to discuss frankly. If you want to see yourself if Orc is strong go look at the major tournament results since 1.22. On June 22 2009 12:09 JudgeMathis wrote: You do know that BM is a hero you can easily nuke and kill? I mean... I won't lie, I've seen a Blademaster (I forgot who did this) triple crit and kill a DK (all the crits were 300 dmg each but this blademaster had tons of + atk). Thinking of that? xD On June 22 2009 21:57 JudgeMathis wrote: I love these UD < Orc comments. It's obvious that if you can't beat something than its certainly imba! There's a lot of Undeads that have taken games from Lyn, Grubby, and any respectable orc you want to name (it's not an uphill battle). If you want to talk about IMBA go watch a WoW competition 3v3 arena teams (like 90% run RPM). Many WC3 players recognise the worst mu in the game is Orc UD. Of course UD players still win, they are some very skilled UDs (TeD and FoV) out there. Hopefully, TeD can keep up his form VS Orc after he beat Fly 2:0 in IEF and start winning some tournaments since they have good matchups vs elf and Hu. On June 22 2009 21:38 M2 wrote: What makes undead vs orc imba? Since I enjoy watching warcraft and also played a bit to the extend that I know the units specifics and tech trees, however I cannot asses the imbalances so much, so can someone explain to me why Undeads are considered so much at disadvantage against Orcs? I mean undeads have good ground units as spiders&abominations, they can fight at the air with gargs and wirms/destroyers, their heroes are as good as versus any other race's heroes (they can coil/nova) , blademaster creeps them as much as he does any other heroes, so I cannot understand what makes them so behind? For a number of reasons. Firstly, the BM can easily harass and get the DK low on hp or mana and simply salve back up whereas the UD has no tier 1 healing. Then later on BM with orb is strong, as is chain heal on the SH and TC level 3/5 stomp is insane. Aboms aren't worth it, they just get eaten by kodos frankly. Fiends are good, but if the UD hasn't got frost armour. Air is countered by BMOrb + Troll beserkers or by bats. My post now sounds like there's nothing UD can do. >_> But, UDs can dooo stuff. Frost armour and nuke is powerful. /confusing imbalance post | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On June 22 2009 21:57 JudgeMathis wrote: I love these UD < Orc comments. It's obvious that if you can't beat something than its certainly imba! There's a lot of Undeads that have taken games from Lyn, Grubby, and any respectable orc you want to name (it's not an uphill battle). If you want to talk about IMBA go watch a WoW competition 3v3 arena teams (like 90% run RPM). Just because some players can win UD < Orc doesn't mean it's balanced sir. People used to be able to take games off the former overpowered NE but that didn't take away from the fact that NE was overpowered. Most if not all pros agree that Orc is UD's worst matchup and it's the worst stilted matchup in the entire game for a reason. | ||
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Goshawk.
United Kingdom5338 Posts
Games delayed to 2nd July. : ( | ||
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