Intro Hello, this is a thread about the first Magic: The Gathering tourney hosted for Starcraft players. The program we will be using is Magic Workstation. I will make the assumption that you know Magic: The Gathering and the game rules when reading the thread. If you do not yet, please visit Wizards of the coast's official introduction to the game. It might be a long read, but it's worth it to understand the basic concept of the game. It is however ill-advised to participate in this tournament if you are new to the game.
Download It is freeware, downloadable here. Go to download evaluation. Once you've downloaded it, install it and it should work.
Pictures You can get the pictures here. Use the torrent of your choice where you can pick the sets you want pictures from, then save them in the pics directory in your Magic Workstation directory. If it's not there yet, you have to create the directory yourself.
Building a deck Once you've installed magic workstation, start it up and press 'new deck'. The most functional way to create a deck is by putting the master.mwbase (this contains all cards) at the top, and keeping the deck at the bottom. If successful, it should look something like this (doubleclick to enlarge):
To add cards, simply select the card you wish to find and press the green arrow pointing downwards.
Filtering cards This will be important to filter the information you want. Since the information you have now will flood over, you will want to filter to only the information you need. When building a black deck, you might not want any white cards. The game type we will be playing is T1, so the first thing you want to do is to click the dropdown editions box and selecting T1.
In this tournament, we have decided not to use any sets beyond Fifth Dawn. This is because I am not familiar with these sets and would not be able to judge situations correctly, and I believe there are quite a few ex-MTG players around here that quit around this time as well, so you might want to check these off. The example below is a filter you might want to use for a black deck.
After you have filtered the cards and wish to reverse the filtering, simply press the "reset all filters" button located next to the save button.
Playing online The software we will be using to play online is MWSPlay. This software is automatically downloaded with Magic Workstation. To use it, simply start it up and press 'new game'. Select your deck, then connect to the server. From here, you can join a game.
Tournament rules 1. Cheating in any way is not allowed. 2. Any set later then Fifth Dawn is banned. If cards appeared in previous sets, they are allowed. Also, all 'power 9' cards are banned. These are: Black Lotus, Mox Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald/Jet/Pearl, Timetwister, Time Walk, and Ancestral Recall. For the rest, the T1 banned/restricted list as seen here is applied. 3. The server that will be used to play is 'mwsgames.net'. 4. All participants will be randomly attached to another opponent. If there is an uneven amount of players, byes will be given. 5. Signing up will be handled by PMing me. Posting in this thread will not qualify as signing up. You can not sign up until the official date is released. 6. The decklist of your deck, including sideboard, must be added in the PM in which you sign up. Editing your deck after this is not allowed.
Date/time The decided time for the event is Saturday 7th of June at 7PM CET (1PM EST)
Format 2 groups of 5, randomly assigned, will each play eachother in a bo2. You are allowed to use your Sideboard in game 2. If you win 2-0, you gain three points. If you play 1-1, both players gain one point. Losing gives no points. The reason I've decided for a bo2 instead of a bo3 is that there will be a lot of games in Round 1.
From here, the player placing first from each group advance to the semifinals. The players placing second and third will advance to round 2. Group A's second place will play Group B's third place and the other way around. These matches will be bo3, and the winners advance to the semifinals.
The semifinals will be bo5 and the finals will be bo7. There will be a loser's finals as well, which will be bo5.
The groups are as following: Group A: 1. fgsvsd (TL.net) 2. Caller (TL.net) 3. LordWeirD (GG.net) 4. Demoninja (TL.net) 5. kirtar111 (TL.net)
FAQ My library isn't working properly. What do I do? Please redownload the master.mwbase file. I've uploaded it here for those who have problems with it. Simply download it and place it in your magic workstation directory. Let it overwrite the old master.mwbase.
I'm totally down. so the tournament is type 1 but p9 is banned, and you can't use sets later than 5th dawn? i'm totally busting out some janky combo shit lol
On May 24 2008 05:31 Meta wrote: I'm totally down. so the tournament is type 1 but p9 is banned, and you can't use sets later than 5th dawn? i'm totally busting out some janky combo shit lol
Enjoy cabal therapy, duress, force of will, daze, etc. P9 isn't the only thing stopping combo's ^^
I'm down for it but i havent played scence the Torment and judgement came out >-< i dont know newer rules. Hum Your neatherlands so CET is centeral eurpose EST is eastern US so i can't play if its on weekday school before fun but sometimes at the same time
bah, this sooooo makes me wish I picked this up back in middle school instead of fucking yugioh
Edit: So is this tournament going to be open to however many people want to join? Or is there a limit?
If it's unlimited I might join because I always wanted to learn this game (I'm reading the manual now), if not then I'd rather not steal an experienced players spot =/
oooh man mtg brings back great memories, i used to play type1.5 hardcore every week at a local cardshop that held tournies. i quit 2 or 3 years ago, didnt like keeping up with all the new sets coming out, and didnt have to money to stay competitive (which really sucks). played a lot of mws near the end though, since it was free. damn i loved mtg. takes so much thinking, which i love. wont be participating in this tourny though, im out of touch.
Wow I love MTG, sadly I know nothing about deck builidng (my bro built all his decks and I just used them) (I haven't downloaded that program yet but can you just choose any cards you want? Isn't that kinda imba?)
Well, I'd rather not play with those really really imba cards that make no sense. My friend spent a lot of money on MTG and he had this really retarded card and it was 'cannot be killed in combat, by spells' 'is not affected by disenchats' and it was 8/8 it was really gay. Plus we might see like everyone having the exact same deck which would be gay.
Well scence he banned the power 9 cards alot of the decks pre made forVintage wont work they run off that fast mana although the decks with some engine power will porably still work without the fast mana porably only Oath decks or slow counter decks will be usefull although if you where creative i guess the old judgement nantuko Shade would work with some tweaks for better cards not in the torment saga.
also 8/8 dont play darksteel colluss 11/11 play alot akroma and that one other angel from a newer saga are popular in oath decks you just deckout for them
I was thinking about playing but then i didnt like the feel of that program basically because power 9 was out i made quick decks for fun then deleted the program. An Enchatement Control deck BW,Pump Deck basking rootwalla ftw G, Burn deck R, Goblin deck R, i was working on a nantuko shade a oath and a mariris wake deck but with so much selection it was hard for me to work it.
Is 'Gaea's Might Get There' type 1, or is that extended? I don't like control, and everybody is going to be playing combo, so I think I am going to go aggro. are there any powerful aggro decks in type 1, or are they just too slow. Also, gaea's might decks really need watchwolf, and artanis decided against ravnica.
type 1.5 if it plays in that it plays in type 1 no thought lol i would just use a goblin or a pump deck those always play strong unless agnist a very heavy control deck for this tourny if i felt like doing something fun i would go with an old nantuko shade deck over that That deck wont fly it will have to be tweaked Isamaru, Hound of Konda isnt too far for what hes allowing i guess Savannah Lions would be the close ist replacement for that
I didnt like the program so i wont be perticipating but i've alwyas enjoyed making decks some that are made to win others are just for fun like Angel Deck which does win but it has several weaknesses. I have a feeling Red Blue and Black will be strongest for this without the fast mana esp a Reanimator with shit like but some staple decks like white weenes are always strong Psychatog black suscide.
Also, would there be more people interested if I would post a few decklists? It reduces the creativity factor a bit, but if it might increase the amount of people that would play I'd be up for it, and one could still tweak the deck.
On May 24 2008 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also, would there be more people interested if I would post a few decklists? It reduces the creativity factor a bit, but if it might increase the amount of people that would play I'd be up for it, and one could still tweak the deck.
I would appreciate it. There are soooo many more cards since I played that I dont know where to start. I would love to play in this tourney.
Here's a deckpack for those that aren't too familiar with older sets. It's mostly aggro builds though. Contents: -Suicide black -The Rock -Goblin -Red Deck Wins -Fish -White Weenie
I'm not completely sure that there are no cards from newer sets, but it should work. Try to customize the decks in case you take one of them!
So u are creating a tournament for the ancien players ? It would have made sense that u do the contrary, dont play the very ancien edition for the newest player and play the newest edition for the newest player
"In this tournament, we have decided not to use any sets beyond Fifth Dawn. This is because I am not familiar with these sets and would not be able to judge situations correctly"
Ahaha, so u made this as a rule because we will have an advantage ? Ahaha, u will have an adavantage over me if u accept all editions because i beagn to play with Ravnica and so i dont know the previous editions...
But its ok its fine i wont play then, and after u ask why there is nobody that want to participate to ure tournament.....
On May 25 2008 01:30 trollbone wrote: So u are creating a tournament for the ancien players ? It would have made sense that u do the contrary, dont play the very ancien edition for the newest player and play the newest edition for the newest player
"In this tournament, we have decided not to use any sets beyond Fifth Dawn. This is because I am not familiar with these sets and would not be able to judge situations correctly"
Ahaha, so u made this as a rule because we will have an advantage ? Ahaha, u will have an adavantage over me if u accept all editions because i beagn to play with Ravnica and so i dont know the previous editions...
But its ok its fine i wont play then, and after u ask why there is nobody that want to participate to ure tournament.....
I am not playing in the tournament. I am the tournament organizer, so I gain nothing from preventing this. I simply don't know the rules for the newer editions thus I would not be able to assist in any way if there was a conflict.
FAQ My library isn't working properly. What do I do? Please redownload the master.mwbase file. I've uploaded it here for those who have problems with it. Simply download it and place it in your magic workstation directory. Let it overwrite the old master.mwbase.
OK OK fine, I'll download it and try it out but I know nothing about deck-building or whatever ,but just cuz i love mtg so much, I'll just try to base them off my brother's decks (and I'm not gonna get those gosu cards on purpose)
edit: I can only find 102 cards and they all are neutral with some (+2 to tower, -10 to enemy tower) wtf?? Never heard of that... I can't find any more cards, my master.mwbase seems to only have 102 cards.
I'm probably not going to be able to play, but if anyone wants a deck, let me know if you want a combo, aggressive, or what not type of deck and ill see what I can do for you :D
i tried to play a bit on internet this is so complicated ! I though there was some sort of automatisation when u play ure card but u have to do it all by yourself......
On May 24 2008 22:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also, would there be more people interested if I would post a few decklists? It reduces the creativity factor a bit, but if it might increase the amount of people that would play I'd be up for it, and one could still tweak the deck.
I'm not paticipating not becuase i cant build decks naw i enjoy building decks. its the program it confuses me on how to play lol
Lol yeah i kinda skiped a few words and added ones ment for an aim
I have no idea what you just said in the first part of your sentence. As for the second part; the program shouldn't be that confusing. Just try things out and it soon becomes obvious what they're for.
I just really, really dislike vintage and legacy formats. Even though I've been with MTG since the beginning (I've still got Alpha and Beta cards) I like the Standard/Extended/Block formats. I rarely play Vintage/Legacy on MWS just because the games in general aren't satisfying enough. Even without the power nine to speed things along games with good decks will still take 5-6 turns tops unless there are bad draws.
Another thing that turns me off to this tournament is how it's not really one format. You kinda took it towards vintage, but then said nothing after Fifth Dawn and the Power nine are banned. I don't have anything against house rules but those seem like awkward restrictions. Unless it's intentionally some oddball format (i.e. Highlander) it would probably be best to just go with an established format without tinkering with the banned/restricted lists.
These are just my opinions about things, nothing more. I'm quite saddened this tournament didn't spark my interest.
On May 25 2008 04:47 CFDragon wrote: I just really, really dislike vintage and legacy formats. Even though I've been with MTG since the beginning (I've still got Alpha and Beta cards) I like the Standard/Extended/Block formats. I rarely play Vintage/Legacy on MWS just because the games in general aren't satisfying enough. Even without the power nine to speed things along games with good decks will still take 5-6 turns tops unless there are bad draws.
Another thing that turns me off to this tournament is how it's not really one format. You kinda took it towards vintage, but then said nothing after Fifth Dawn and the Power nine are banned. I don't have anything against house rules but those seem like awkward restrictions. Unless it's intentionally some oddball format (i.e. Highlander) it would probably be best to just go with an established format without tinkering with the banned/restricted lists.
These are just my opinions about things, nothing more. I'm quite saddened this tournament didn't spark my interest.
I perfer his awkward restircitions means that even if you try to copy decks they wont work most vintage decks use cards past fth dawn and use the power 9 and extended use past 5th dawn to so you cant copy decks that easly so your forced variation. So we could get to see more intresting decks insted of green/red aggro blue control or green blue oath decks being played
Even without the power nine to speed things along games with good decks will still take 5-6 turns tops unless there are bad draws.
Most games even in the other formats are decided by around turns 5-6, especially in the case of bad draws. Same buisness. Only difference is the power nine speed, really. take that out and there's a number of control options that rejoin the field, which make the field far more open to creative deck building.
Question. Does anybody know how to update MWS deck legality rules? I used the update ruling, but it just updates the text not the actual database. For example, I have deck with Strip mine and MWS says it the deck is legal in 1.5 (legacy) when it isn't....
FAQ My library isn't working properly. What do I do? Please redownload the master.mwbase file. I've uploaded it here for those who have problems with it. Simply download it and place it in your magic workstation directory. Let it overwrite the old master.mwbase.
Ok, so this is the FAQ. Correct?
I did this. I can't stress enough about how I did this. I did this. Now, is there some secret hidden message I've missed? Some hidden step? What is it? I did this. Plain and simple. But I still have that problem. Now will some one help me?
On May 26 2008 08:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You might need to start up magic workstation again. Then click "open library" and open the master.mwbase.
Yes, I've tried that. It loads up all the magic card libraries. But thats not the problem. The problem is I can't filter series with my filter. All it says is Akromage. I don't have a list of decks that I can check on or off. (Unlike what's shown in the OP.)
So I mean this is really frustrating. I have to be careful which cards I add to my deck and what not. I don't know the abbreviations. I also have to keep looking back on the OP list of banned decks to make sure I'm not using the wrong set. It's annoying. To much work if you ask me.
Quick question. If you clone a Serras Avatar, then the clone dies. Does it go back into your library as well? I mean that is a really tough question. The Clone becomes a copy of target creature... so I mean it would have that ability.
good question. i haven't touched magic in a long time, but doesn't clone have an addendum that says if the creature is discarded from play, remove it from the game?
Damn I'd love to participate so much.... But I left on 5th edition. I'm just so completely lost with new cards. Lol, I remeber this time some years ago I tried to make a comeback and I undusted my old deck and played some noob who said he bought a deck that was already premade. I thought, omg he is so bad he can't even make his own deck. And then he raped me so bad with some angel who had protection against all colours. At my time, that was unthinkable of. And when he told me it wasn't even the best creature around, I just gave up.
Spelltype: Creature Subtype: Avatar Serra Avatar's power and toughness are each equal to your life total. If Serra Avatar would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Serra Avatar, then shuffle it into its owner's library instead.
'Would be put' means it doesn't hit the graveyard. Clone would turn into a normal clone the second it touches the graveyard and be useless, but since it doesn't touch the graveyard but 'instead' is shuffled into your library, you get the effect and shuffle Clone into it. Under the old rulings your Clone would do nothing though. The new ruling also means that if it gets discarded or millstoned you get to shuffle it back as well! =)
On May 27 2008 08:06 RamenStyle wrote: Anyone can speed me up on the stuff that came out after the Rath Cycle(up to Stronghold)?
Basic Mechanics, Some cards Urza Saga- C-C-COMBO block Morphling: Son of a bitch is a staple for most blue decks. Can combine abilities that are already badass.
Masques Block- I didn't really play many of these cards. I think Rishadin Port was one of the bullshit cards However, I think the Fading Mechanic came in around this time.
Invasion- Only part I remember is the multi colored cards. Red-Blue card, wtf?
Odyssey- Flashback, Threshold bonuses, Morph (wtf?) Interesting Note: Torment (3rd part) was really, really, really, good for black players.
Onslaught- Double Strike= First Strike + Regular attack, Storm (FUCKING BULLSHIT, also funny how BLUE got the ONLY COUNTER (Stifle))
Mirrodin- (probably my favorite due to Darksteel artifacts <3<3<3 Darksteel Forge) Affinity, Artifact Lands, Equipment Artifacts, Skull Clamp, Gosu Trinisphere, ZOMG DARKSTEEL COLOSSUS, Indestructible, Crucible of Worlds (Bullshit card), Staff of Domination (Bullshit card)
Kamigawa- It's about fucking trees. Nigga plz. (I do like Kokushu, and it has a good place in my Dragon Deck =) )
Small update: When you send your decklists to me, please open the .mwdeck file with notepad and send the contents of that to me. It makes it easier for me.
On May 27 2008 08:06 RamenStyle wrote: Anyone can speed me up on the stuff that came out after the Rath Cycle(up to Stronghold)?
Basic Mechanics, Some cards Urza Saga- C-C-COMBO block Morphling: Son of a bitch is a staple for most blue decks. Can combine abilities that are already badass.
Masques Block- I didn't really play many of these cards. I think Rishadin Port was one of the bullshit cards However, I think the Fading Mechanic came in around this time.
Invasion- Only part I remember is the multi colored cards. Red-Blue card, wtf?
Odyssey- Flashback, Threshold bonuses, Morph (wtf?) Interesting Note: Torment (3rd part) was really, really, really, good for black players.
Onslaught- Double Strike= First Strike + Regular attack, Storm (FUCKING BULLSHIT, also funny how BLUE got the ONLY COUNTER (Stifle))
Mirrodin- (probably my favorite due to Darksteel artifacts <3<3<3 Darksteel Forge) Affinity, Artifact Lands, Equipment Artifacts, Skull Clamp, Gosu Trinisphere, ZOMG DARKSTEEL COLOSSUS, Indestructible, Crucible of Worlds (Bullshit card), Staff of Domination (Bullshit card)
Kamigawa- It's about fucking trees. Nigga plz. (I do like Kokushu, and it has a good place in my Dragon Deck =) )
etc etc etc
Ravnica block: Hybrid manacosts (payable by both red/green mana for example) and guild themes. Red/green cards are Gruul guild, red/black cards Rakdos etc, all guild-aligned cards share themes. Shock-duallands.
Timespiral block: 'Timeshifted' cards aka old cards making a return, old cards getting new colours (A black Wrath of God in the form of Damnation, a green Ball Lightning etc) and Tarmogoyf.
Lorwyn block: Tribes, lots of creature synergies and lands that come into play tapped unless you reveal a creature/tribal card of the chosen type. Lots of +1/+1 counters.
Shadowmoor block: The block we're in now, only 1 set released so far. The opposite of the Lorwyn block in terms of mechanics, lots of -1/-1 counters and many of the legends get a dark counterpart; Sygg river guide in Lorwyn, Sygg river cutthroat in Shadowmoor.
4 people so far: Kirtar111, Krohm, FragKrag, and Brambolius (GG.net). Trollbone sent in an illegal deck, and I know from lisk that he will send in a deck as well.
Sounds like a really great tournament. I think a highlander format (only 1 of each card besides basic lands) would be a bit better though because just having the vintage restricted list and banning power leaves every card in legacy, which still has a few combo decks that can win on turn 2 average in the absence of force of will.
On May 28 2008 08:20 Wonders wrote: Sounds like a really great tournament. I think a highlander format (only 1 of each card besides basic lands) would be a bit better though because just having the vintage restricted list and banning power leaves every card in legacy, which still has a few combo decks that can win on turn 2 average in the absence of force of will.
Force of Will is the most annoying blue card ever ;; I don't really like the highlander format. 1 Dark Ritual?! T.T Pretty much kills most good mono-black decks.
On May 28 2008 08:20 Wonders wrote: Sounds like a really great tournament. I think a highlander format (only 1 of each card besides basic lands) would be a bit better though because just having the vintage restricted list and banning power leaves every card in legacy, which still has a few combo decks that can win on turn 2 average in the absence of force of will.
Yeah, I was playing Vintage with some guy, and he pulled out some combo that won the game before I even played a card. Deck was legit too...
On May 28 2008 08:20 Wonders wrote: Sounds like a really great tournament. I think a highlander format (only 1 of each card besides basic lands) would be a bit better though because just having the vintage restricted list and banning power leaves every card in legacy, which still has a few combo decks that can win on turn 2 average in the absence of force of will.
Force of Will is the most annoying blue card ever ;; I don't really like the highlander format. 1 Dark Ritual?! T.T Pretty much kills most good mono-black decks.
You must be playing Sui-Black or Storm combo for it to matter...
On May 28 2008 08:20 Wonders wrote: Sounds like a really great tournament. I think a highlander format (only 1 of each card besides basic lands) would be a bit better though because just having the vintage restricted list and banning power leaves every card in legacy, which still has a few combo decks that can win on turn 2 average in the absence of force of will.
Force of Will is the most annoying blue card ever ;; I don't really like the highlander format. 1 Dark Ritual?! T.T Pretty much kills most good mono-black decks.
You must be playing Sui-Black or Storm combo for it to matter...
My fucking god, the decks those guys have... I died in 3 turns today. From a weird Flash/Sliver combo.
They took the fun right out of this game for me. I made a deck that I would of made when I was 13. But it just completely fails against those guys. Too used to the whole "playing with friends" thing.
Also, turn 2/3 average goldfishes are pretty unlikely. Under the currect rules: Flash is illegal, storm combo (except maybe Empty the Warrens which I quit long before it was popular) is unplayable w/o moxen, Ichorid is illegal, Tyrant is illegal, Bomberman is better with control etc. Only Dragon/FCG can really pull it off imo, but they are both easily hated out.
Every non-combo deck in vintage needs disruption (be it Force of Will, Duress, Sphere of Resistance or whatever suits your deck). Even the turn 2/3 combo deck Flash tends to have a full complement of Force of Wills (though admittedly they are more to protect the combo rather than stop another from going off).
On May 28 2008 23:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Krohm, due to the restrictions, I don't think there will be many turn 3 kills, especially if you have some disruption in your deck.
Also, I expected more people to join up.
It's the strange rules, mainly I understand banning P9 (turn 1 charbelcher wins are just retarded) but why not just use Legacy rules then? Alot of people are willing to play, including myself, just not under these strange rules Legacy has a whole list of banned cards, designed to keep the fun in the game, there's really no reason to make up your own.
On May 28 2008 14:39 Krohm wrote: My fucking god, the decks those guys have... I died in 3 turns today. From a weird Flash/Sliver combo.
They took the fun right out of this game for me. I made a deck that I would of made when I was 13. But it just completely fails against those guys. Too used to the whole "playing with friends" thing.
Silver is bullshit, but if you put Force of Will in your deck, they get ez'd.
Edit: And Reanimating decks really aren't that great under his ruleset.
Shit, I've been play testing an awesome deck for days now, but something came up on the exact date of the tournament, so I cannot play. Any chance we can postpone still? If not, any chance somebody want to setup a 2nd tournament? (Also, I think it would be more successful if we stick to the standard T1.5 format).
I used to play MTG but I never had the money to really spend on it alot. Compared to alot of my friends however i was decent(I guess we all kind of sucked realy lol) I had pretty decent all white deck that had a bunch of white knights and stuff. Everyone i knew used to try and play all the super powerful cards and i could kill them alot before they ever played them.
I need to ask a few "noob" questions, I just played a game today I think I should of won. But my opponent said I can't do it.
#1. Can you group block creatures? (I lost the game because of this, he said you can't group block creatures... Which makes no sense. Because of the trample ability on some cards. Or can you only group block creatures with trample?)
#2. Can you play creature abilities at any time? (In one of my decks I use these merfolk cards, that have the ability T; Turn target land into an island. I tried to do this during his turn, and he said you can't do that. Now I'm positive you can, since there are wizard cards that have T; Counter target spell unless its caster pays 1.)
You can play all abilities at any time you may play an instant unless otherwise stated (e.g. Skyshroud Ranger). Summoning sickness (as stated above) applies to all creature abilites that require tappping.
On May 29 2008 11:34 Krohm wrote: I need to ask a few "noob" questions, I just played a game today I think I should of won. But my opponent said I can't do it.
#1. Can you group block creatures? (I lost the game because of this, he said you can't group block creatures... Which makes no sense. Because of the trample ability on some cards. Or can you only group block creatures with trample?)
#2. Can you play creature abilities at any time? (In one of my decks I use these merfolk cards, that have the ability T; Turn target land into an island. I tried to do this during his turn, and he said you can't do that. Now I'm positive you can, since there are wizard cards that have T; Counter target spell unless its caster pays 1.)
Now I'm almost positive you can do both.
1: Yes, you can groupblock creatures. Your opponent will decide who gets the damage though. There's no exception to this rule, unless the card says something like 'can only be blocked by 1 creature'.
2: You can play creature abilities at any time, withing some limits. 1: The abilities that require your creature to tap can only be played if it was under your control when the turn started (summoning sickness) and 2: Sometimes the ability says 'play as a sorcery' which can only be used during your own main phases. So if your merfolk didn't have summoning sickness you could have turned his land into an island. BUT, mana-abilities will always be 'faster' than normal abilities, including tapping lands for mana. What this means is, for example, you'd use the ability on a mountain your opponent controls, and in reaction to this he can tap it for red mana before it turns into an island. You could even try to respond to him trying to tap his mountain for red mana, by turning it into an island, but he'd still get his red mana because mana-producing abilities get priority over everything else.
On May 29 2008 11:34 Krohm wrote: I need to ask a few "noob" questions, I just played a game today I think I should of won. But my opponent said I can't do it.
#1. Can you group block creatures? (I lost the game because of this, he said you can't group block creatures... Which makes no sense. Because of the trample ability on some cards. Or can you only group block creatures with trample?)
#2. Can you play creature abilities at any time? (In one of my decks I use these merfolk cards, that have the ability T; Turn target land into an island. I tried to do this during his turn, and he said you can't do that. Now I'm positive you can, since there are wizard cards that have T; Counter target spell unless its caster pays 1.)
Now I'm almost positive you can do both.
1: Yes, you can groupblock creatures. Your opponent will decide who gets the damage though. There's no exception to this rule, unless the card says something like 'can only be blocked by 1 creature'.
2: You can play creature abilities at any time, withing some limits. 1: The abilities that require your creature to tap can only be played if it was under your control when the turn started (summoning sickness) and 2: Sometimes the ability says 'play as a sorcery' which can only be used during your own main phases. So if your merfolk didn't have summoning sickness you could have turned his land into an island. BUT, mana-abilities will always be 'faster' than normal abilities, including tapping lands for mana. What this means is, for example, you'd use the ability on a mountain your opponent controls, and in reaction to this he can tap it for red mana before it turns into an island. You could even try to respond to him trying to tap his mountain for red mana, by turning it into an island, but he'd still get his red mana because mana-producing abilities get priority over everything else.
Well that's completely ridiculous that land takes priority. Hence "stalling" cards, which can let you tap a persons land. What would be the point of those cards then? This is also applied to many other things, such as destroying lands with a card. Does that mean, they can tap them and use them for mana before they're destroyed? I really don't think that's right.
Oh another thing, can tokens be sacrificed for a specific card that would require a sacrifice?
On May 29 2008 11:34 Krohm wrote: I need to ask a few "noob" questions, I just played a game today I think I should of won. But my opponent said I can't do it.
#1. Can you group block creatures? (I lost the game because of this, he said you can't group block creatures... Which makes no sense. Because of the trample ability on some cards. Or can you only group block creatures with trample?)
#2. Can you play creature abilities at any time? (In one of my decks I use these merfolk cards, that have the ability T; Turn target land into an island. I tried to do this during his turn, and he said you can't do that. Now I'm positive you can, since there are wizard cards that have T; Counter target spell unless its caster pays 1.)
Now I'm almost positive you can do both.
1: Yes, you can groupblock creatures. Your opponent will decide who gets the damage though. There's no exception to this rule, unless the card says something like 'can only be blocked by 1 creature'.
2: You can play creature abilities at any time, withing some limits. 1: The abilities that require your creature to tap can only be played if it was under your control when the turn started (summoning sickness) and 2: Sometimes the ability says 'play as a sorcery' which can only be used during your own main phases. So if your merfolk didn't have summoning sickness you could have turned his land into an island. BUT, mana-abilities will always be 'faster' than normal abilities, including tapping lands for mana. What this means is, for example, you'd use the ability on a mountain your opponent controls, and in reaction to this he can tap it for red mana before it turns into an island. You could even try to respond to him trying to tap his mountain for red mana, by turning it into an island, but he'd still get his red mana because mana-producing abilities get priority over everything else.
Well that's completely ridiculous that land takes priority. Hence "stalling" cards, which can let you tap a persons land. What would be the point of those cards then? This is also applied to many other things, such as destroying lands with a card. Does that mean, they can tap them and use them for mana before they're destroyed? I really don't think that's right.
Oh another thing, can tokens be sacrificed for a specific card that would require a sacrifice?
Yes, token creatures count as creatures as well. If you'd use a serpent generator to make a 1/1 artifact creature token you could sacrifice the token for something that required an artifact to be sacrificed as well.
About the stalling cards and responding to lands, you should use the card during upkeeps or attackphases. If I tap my Gaea's Cradle for mana, you can't respond to it by quickly tapping it with your icy manipulator, but you *can* tap it during my upkeep. I could still tap it for mana in response, but I would get manaburn at the end of my upkeep phase since I probably wouldn't have anything to spend it on. So yes, you're supposed to tap lands in advance, if you were to tap lands.
Edit: Yes, you can also tap them in response to destroy effects to get one last mana out of them. Then again, you can use creature abilities in response to effects that kill them as well, just like enchantments, artifacts, anything that can be played on instant speed.
Better yet: If I had an avatar of woe for example, my opponent plays a swords to plowshares on it, killing it off. I could tap it in response, and get a creature kill, before it would die. My opponent could respond to the effect of my avatar of woe with another swords to plowshares, and it would die, but it would still get its kill, because I already payed the activation cost and the effect already got in its place on the stack, which is then resolved from the last played effect to the first.
It would look something like this:
---top---
Swords to Plowshares nr 2 -> Destroys my avatar of woe Avatar of Woe effect -> Destroys a creature of my choice, even though the avatar is gone Swords to Plowshares nr 1 -> Does nothing due to lack of target and goes to GY
On May 29 2008 11:34 Krohm wrote: I need to ask a few "noob" questions, I just played a game today I think I should of won. But my opponent said I can't do it.
#1. Can you group block creatures? (I lost the game because of this, he said you can't group block creatures... Which makes no sense. Because of the trample ability on some cards. Or can you only group block creatures with trample?)
#2. Can you play creature abilities at any time? (In one of my decks I use these merfolk cards, that have the ability T; Turn target land into an island. I tried to do this during his turn, and he said you can't do that. Now I'm positive you can, since there are wizard cards that have T; Counter target spell unless its caster pays 1.)
Now I'm almost positive you can do both.
1: Yes, you can groupblock creatures. Your opponent will decide who gets the damage though. There's no exception to this rule, unless the card says something like 'can only be blocked by 1 creature'.
2: You can play creature abilities at any time, withing some limits. 1: The abilities that require your creature to tap can only be played if it was under your control when the turn started (summoning sickness) and 2: Sometimes the ability says 'play as a sorcery' which can only be used during your own main phases. So if your merfolk didn't have summoning sickness you could have turned his land into an island. BUT, mana-abilities will always be 'faster' than normal abilities, including tapping lands for mana. What this means is, for example, you'd use the ability on a mountain your opponent controls, and in reaction to this he can tap it for red mana before it turns into an island. You could even try to respond to him trying to tap his mountain for red mana, by turning it into an island, but he'd still get his red mana because mana-producing abilities get priority over everything else.
Well that's completely ridiculous that land takes priority. Hence "stalling" cards, which can let you tap a persons land. What would be the point of those cards then? This is also applied to many other things, such as destroying lands with a card. Does that mean, they can tap them and use them for mana before they're destroyed? I really don't think that's right.
Oh another thing, can tokens be sacrificed for a specific card that would require a sacrifice?
Yes, token creatures count as creatures as well. If you'd use a serpent generator to make a 1/1 artifact creature token you could sacrifice the token for something that required an artifact to be sacrificed as well.
About the stalling cards and responding to lands, you should use the card during upkeeps or attackphases. If I tap my Gaea's Cradle for mana, you can't respond to it by quickly tapping it with your icy manipulator, but you *can* tap it during my upkeep. I could still tap it for mana in response, but I would get manaburn at the end of my upkeep phase since I probably wouldn't have anything to spend it on. So yes, you're supposed to tap lands in advance, if you were to tap lands.
Edit: Yes, you can also tap them in response to destroy effects to get one last mana out of them. Then again, you can use creature abilities in response to effects that kill them as well, just like enchantments, artifacts, anything that can be played on instant speed.
Better yet: If I had an avatar of woe for example, my opponent plays a swords to plowshares on it, killing it off. I could tap it in response, and get a creature kill, before it would die. My opponent could respond to the effect of my avatar of woe with another swords to plowshares, and it would die, but it would still get its kill, because I already payed the activation cost and the effect already got in its place on the stack, which is then resolved from the last played effect to the first.
It would look something like this:
---top---
Swords to Plowshares nr 2 -> Destroys my avatar of woe Avatar of Woe effect -> Destroys a creature of my choice, even though the avatar is gone Swords to Plowshares nr 1 -> Does nothing due to lack of target and goes to GY
---bottom---
Actually you wouldn't manaburn from the cradle mana until the end of your draw phase
Do you lose the game, Example; if there is 4 howling mines in play. But you only have 1-4 cards to draw? I mean, this is something I'm not sure about. Because you would be drawing your initial 1 card. Which is required for you to not lose the game.
Well Technically I couldn't of died, the game was stale mated pretty much. I have 4 Serras Avatars in my deck, so when ever I discard it goes back into my library, I could of kept doing that, until eventually he out grinded himself because of the 4 howling mines in play. I didn't bother arguing it though, because I wasn't sure.
On May 29 2008 01:26 Spinfusor wrote: I assume you're talking about reanimator decks.
Also, turn 2/3 average goldfishes are pretty unlikely. Under the currect rules: Flash is illegal, storm combo (except maybe Empty the Warrens which I quit long before it was popular) is unplayable w/o moxen, Ichorid is illegal, Tyrant is illegal, Bomberman is better with control etc. Only Dragon/FCG can really pull it off imo, but they are both easily hated out.
Every non-combo deck in vintage needs disruption (be it Force of Will, Duress, Sphere of Resistance or whatever suits your deck). Even the turn 2/3 combo deck Flash tends to have a full complement of Force of Wills (though admittedly they are more to protect the combo rather than stop another from going off).
I think this is intended to be a fun tournament where everyone can do their thing. I doubt many people will be packing turn 1/2 disruption, so the 'glass cannon' decks are just going to get a free ride. Two decks in legacy that have pretty reliable turn 2 goldfishes that I can think of are belcher and draw 4.
On May 30 2008 13:14 Wonders wrote:I think this is intended to be a fun tournament where everyone can do their thing. I doubt many people will be packing turn 1/2 disruption, so the 'glass cannon' decks are just going to get a free ride. Two decks in legacy that have pretty reliable turn 2 goldfishes that I can think of are belcher and draw 4.
But Lotus Petal, LED etc. are unrestricted in Legacy. I've never seen a decent belcher list with more than 2 lands, so I seriously doubt that without solomoxen and restricted petal/LED/other mox belcher is viable. But then again, I don't play Legacy, so who knows? Maybe SSG pushes it over.
On May 30 2008 20:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote: token creatures cease to be when they die. They don't go to the graveyard or the RFG-zone, they simple get removed.
Incorrect, they hit the graveyard for any abilities that them going to the graveyard would trigger, and THEN they cease to exist.
For example, a dead token would trigger Fecundity.
Edit:
Specific rules regarding this. # 216.3 - A token in a zone other than the in-play zone ceases to exist. This is a state-based effect. (Note that a token changing zones sets off triggered abilities before the token ceases to exist.) [CompRules 2007/02/01] # 216.4 - A token that has left play can't come back into play. If such a token would return to play, it remains in its current zone instead. It ceases to exist the next time state-based effects are checked. [CompRules 2007/02/01]
On May 30 2008 20:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote: token creatures cease to be when they die. They don't go to the graveyard or the RFG-zone, they simple get removed.
Incorrect, they hit the graveyard for any abilities that them going to the graveyard would trigger, and THEN they cease to exist.
For example, a dead token would trigger Fecundity.
Edit:
Specific rules regarding this. # 216.3 - A token in a zone other than the in-play zone ceases to exist. This is a state-based effect. (Note that a token changing zones sets off triggered abilities before the token ceases to exist.) [CompRules 2007/02/01] # 216.4 - A token that has left play can't come back into play. If such a token would return to play, it remains in its current zone instead. It ceases to exist the next time state-based effects are checked. [CompRules 2007/02/01]
And that is how I love (at least previously) M:TG. The possibilities of card interaction is near limitless.
On May 29 2008 11:34 Krohm wrote: I need to ask a few "noob" questions, I just played a game today I think I should of won. But my opponent said I can't do it.
#1. Can you group block creatures? (I lost the game because of this, he said you can't group block creatures... Which makes no sense. Because of the trample ability on some cards. Or can you only group block creatures with trample?)
#2. Can you play creature abilities at any time? (In one of my decks I use these merfolk cards, that have the ability T; Turn target land into an island. I tried to do this during his turn, and he said you can't do that. Now I'm positive you can, since there are wizard cards that have T; Counter target spell unless its caster pays 1.)
Now I'm almost positive you can do both.
1: Yes, you can groupblock creatures. Your opponent will decide who gets the damage though. There's no exception to this rule, unless the card says something like 'can only be blocked by 1 creature'.
2: You can play creature abilities at any time, withing some limits. 1: The abilities that require your creature to tap can only be played if it was under your control when the turn started (summoning sickness) and 2: Sometimes the ability says 'play as a sorcery' which can only be used during your own main phases. So if your merfolk didn't have summoning sickness you could have turned his land into an island. BUT, mana-abilities will always be 'faster' than normal abilities, including tapping lands for mana. What this means is, for example, you'd use the ability on a mountain your opponent controls, and in reaction to this he can tap it for red mana before it turns into an island. You could even try to respond to him trying to tap his mountain for red mana, by turning it into an island, but he'd still get his red mana because mana-producing abilities get priority over everything else.
Well that's completely ridiculous that land takes priority. Hence "stalling" cards, which can let you tap a persons land. What would be the point of those cards then? This is also applied to many other things, such as destroying lands with a card. Does that mean, they can tap them and use them for mana before they're destroyed? I really don't think that's right.
Oh another thing, can tokens be sacrificed for a specific card that would require a sacrifice?
Yes, token creatures count as creatures as well. If you'd use a serpent generator to make a 1/1 artifact creature token you could sacrifice the token for something that required an artifact to be sacrificed as well.
About the stalling cards and responding to lands, you should use the card during upkeeps or attackphases. If I tap my Gaea's Cradle for mana, you can't respond to it by quickly tapping it with your icy manipulator, but you *can* tap it during my upkeep. I could still tap it for mana in response, but I would get manaburn at the end of my upkeep phase since I probably wouldn't have anything to spend it on. So yes, you're supposed to tap lands in advance, if you were to tap lands.
Edit: Yes, you can also tap them in response to destroy effects to get one last mana out of them. Then again, you can use creature abilities in response to effects that kill them as well, just like enchantments, artifacts, anything that can be played on instant speed.
Better yet: If I had an avatar of woe for example, my opponent plays a swords to plowshares on it, killing it off. I could tap it in response, and get a creature kill, before it would die. My opponent could respond to the effect of my avatar of woe with another swords to plowshares, and it would die, but it would still get its kill, because I already payed the activation cost and the effect already got in its place on the stack, which is then resolved from the last played effect to the first.
It would look something like this:
---top---
Swords to Plowshares nr 2 -> Destroys my avatar of woe Avatar of Woe effect -> Destroys a creature of my choice, even though the avatar is gone Swords to Plowshares nr 1 -> Does nothing due to lack of target and goes to GY
---bottom---
wait that doesn't seem right somehow, like with morphling for instance, when would i use my untargetable nonesense, if someone lightning bolts a morphling, and i pay for the untargetable nonesense in response, what happens?
do i have to play it in response to them tapping for mana? like, they tap 3 lands, and i say in response to you tapping ur lands i make my morphling untargetable?
On May 29 2008 11:34 Krohm wrote: I need to ask a few "noob" questions, I just played a game today I think I should of won. But my opponent said I can't do it.
#1. Can you group block creatures? (I lost the game because of this, he said you can't group block creatures... Which makes no sense. Because of the trample ability on some cards. Or can you only group block creatures with trample?)
#2. Can you play creature abilities at any time? (In one of my decks I use these merfolk cards, that have the ability T; Turn target land into an island. I tried to do this during his turn, and he said you can't do that. Now I'm positive you can, since there are wizard cards that have T; Counter target spell unless its caster pays 1.)
Now I'm almost positive you can do both.
1: Yes, you can groupblock creatures. Your opponent will decide who gets the damage though. There's no exception to this rule, unless the card says something like 'can only be blocked by 1 creature'.
2: You can play creature abilities at any time, withing some limits. 1: The abilities that require your creature to tap can only be played if it was under your control when the turn started (summoning sickness) and 2: Sometimes the ability says 'play as a sorcery' which can only be used during your own main phases. So if your merfolk didn't have summoning sickness you could have turned his land into an island. BUT, mana-abilities will always be 'faster' than normal abilities, including tapping lands for mana. What this means is, for example, you'd use the ability on a mountain your opponent controls, and in reaction to this he can tap it for red mana before it turns into an island. You could even try to respond to him trying to tap his mountain for red mana, by turning it into an island, but he'd still get his red mana because mana-producing abilities get priority over everything else.
Well that's completely ridiculous that land takes priority. Hence "stalling" cards, which can let you tap a persons land. What would be the point of those cards then? This is also applied to many other things, such as destroying lands with a card. Does that mean, they can tap them and use them for mana before they're destroyed? I really don't think that's right.
Oh another thing, can tokens be sacrificed for a specific card that would require a sacrifice?
Yes, token creatures count as creatures as well. If you'd use a serpent generator to make a 1/1 artifact creature token you could sacrifice the token for something that required an artifact to be sacrificed as well.
About the stalling cards and responding to lands, you should use the card during upkeeps or attackphases. If I tap my Gaea's Cradle for mana, you can't respond to it by quickly tapping it with your icy manipulator, but you *can* tap it during my upkeep. I could still tap it for mana in response, but I would get manaburn at the end of my upkeep phase since I probably wouldn't have anything to spend it on. So yes, you're supposed to tap lands in advance, if you were to tap lands.
Edit: Yes, you can also tap them in response to destroy effects to get one last mana out of them. Then again, you can use creature abilities in response to effects that kill them as well, just like enchantments, artifacts, anything that can be played on instant speed.
Better yet: If I had an avatar of woe for example, my opponent plays a swords to plowshares on it, killing it off. I could tap it in response, and get a creature kill, before it would die. My opponent could respond to the effect of my avatar of woe with another swords to plowshares, and it would die, but it would still get its kill, because I already payed the activation cost and the effect already got in its place on the stack, which is then resolved from the last played effect to the first.
It would look something like this:
---top---
Swords to Plowshares nr 2 -> Destroys my avatar of woe Avatar of Woe effect -> Destroys a creature of my choice, even though the avatar is gone Swords to Plowshares nr 1 -> Does nothing due to lack of target and goes to GY
---bottom---
wait that doesn't seem right somehow, like with morphling for instance, when would i use my untargetable nonesense, if someone lightning bolts a morphling, and i pay for the untargetable nonesense in response, what happens?
do i have to play it in response to them tapping for mana? like, they tap 3 lands, and i say in response to you tapping ur lands i make my morphling untargetable?
This would look like this on the stack:
Morphling effect resolves -> it is untargettable by spells and effects till end of turn Lightning bolt resolves -> original target (morphling) is now invalid. Either you find another target or it just fizzles if there are no more creatures.
I just dont remember if your forced to target your own creature if your opponent does not have any other target-able creature. Or if you can decide that the spell should just fizzle.
You respond to the effect not on the the tapping of the lands. Remember that its Last In-First Out when resolving spells on the stack.
Afaik, this is what will happen. Any current players more knowledgeable please point out if im wrong.
wait that doesn't seem right somehow, like with morphling for instance, when would i use my untargetable nonesense, if someone lightning bolts a morphling, and i pay for the untargetable nonesense in response, what happens?
do i have to play it in response to them tapping for mana? like, they tap 3 lands, and i say in response to you tapping ur lands i make my morphling untargetable?
1. You can't respond to people tapping lands for mana. You can only respond after the spell/ability they want to cast has been played.
2. For your morphling example:
Your opponent lightning bolts your morphling! In response you play the untargetable ability.
Spells and abilities in magic work on a first in, last out basis. Once all the spells/abilities have been played, the 'stack' resolves. So in the above example.
Your untargetable ability resolves first because it is the last spell/ability cast. The lightning bolt resolves. However it now has an illegal target and fizzles.
Another example:
Your opponent lightning bolts your morphling! You play the untargetable ability in response Your opponent lightning bolts the morphling again. You're out of mana and can't play the ability, so you have to let the stack resolve.
The lightning bolt was the last spell cast so it resolves first. The morphling receives 3 damage and hits the graveyard before the untargetable ability resolves. It dies.
wait that doesn't seem right somehow, like with morphling for instance, when would i use my untargetable nonesense, if someone lightning bolts a morphling, and i pay for the untargetable nonesense in response, what happens?
do i have to play it in response to them tapping for mana? like, they tap 3 lands, and i say in response to you tapping ur lands i make my morphling untargetable?
1. You can't respond to people tapping lands for mana. You can only respond after the spell/ability they want to cast has been played.
2. For your morphling example:
Your opponent lightning bolts your morphling! In response you play the untargetable ability.
Spells and abilities in magic work on a first in, last out basis. Once all the spells/abilities have been played, the 'stack' resolves. So in the above example.
Your untargetable ability resolves first because it is the last spell/ability cast. The lightning bolt resolves. However it now has an illegal target and fizzles.
Another example:
Your opponent lightning bolts your morphling! You play the untargetable ability in response Your opponent lightning bolts the morphling again. You're out of mana and can't play the ability, so you have to let the stack resolve.
The lightning bolt was the last spell cast so it resolves first. The morphling receives 3 damage and hits the graveyard before the untargetable ability resolves. It dies.
Correct. Lethal damage is a statebased effect, and statebased effects take effect every time priority shifts and are 'fastest speed' so they do their thing before anything else happens. Lethal damage means death. Another example would be, having a 2/3 tarmogoyf in play, with a creature and a land in the graveyards. I decide to use a lightning bolt on the goyf, but it would grow to 3/4 before it would receive lethal damage since my bolt would hit the GY first, and its stats would be updated as a state-based effect, which comes before the other state-based effect of death.
Also I have never seen a t1.5 belcher deck that was any good. Type 1.5 has a wide range of playable decks, ranging from stax to combo to meathook to aggro to goblin/faerie/elf themedecks, and most have a fair shot at winning, if you keep some rules in mind (some proper disruption for most decks except aggro, a playable manacurve, enough fetch to thin out your deck etc).
edit- it seems that their forums were spammed to hell so they moved, and took down all the links. Let me hunt some down: Google Cached page of previous link ^_^
Does anyone know why Goblin Sharpshooter is so good? It looks like crap to me. I mean I can see its use in like a corpse dance deck but thats not that good.
Some cards are good against other cards. If the other cards are in the top decks, such good counter cards will be played. Example - spell snare (counters goyf,counterbalance,daze,etc).
On May 31 2008 07:19 CharlieMurphy wrote: Does anyone know why Goblin Sharpshooter is so good? It looks like crap to me. I mean I can see its use in like a corpse dance deck but thats not that good.
Sharpshooters are good because all goblins cost about 1-2 to play, and they're all about numbers. Each time you play one of your goblins you get to burn for one or kill a weak monster.
Does anyone know how to select and print multiple proxies (9 fit on a page) of cards in MWS? I can't figure it out (can only get 1).
edit- I used deck edit mode and added them to a deck and print them that way. However there is a glitch that only prints the first card 1 time even if it has 2 or more cards listed of it.
On May 31 2008 07:19 CharlieMurphy wrote: Does anyone know why Goblin Sharpshooter is so good? It looks like crap to me. I mean I can see its use in like a corpse dance deck but thats not that good.
Goblin Sharpshooter is an excellent end-game card. So long as you have another goblin with ability "sacrifice a goblin to do something" in play, essentially every goblin becomes a goblin fanatic.
On May 31 2008 11:18 Cogito wrote:So long as you have another goblin with ability "sacrifice a goblin to do something" in play, essentially every goblin becomes a goblin fanatic.
Skirk Prospector (and to a much lesser extent Goblin Bombardment) is the card you're looking for.
I've only seen Sharpshooter used in Food Chain Goblin decks, but apparently it's used in extended Goblin decks too. Sharpshooter can easily clear a board of weak creatures (e.g. against a Fish deck or several Goblin Welders or even an opposing Goblin deck), and also can work with Siege-Gang Commander et al in FCG to kill an opponent with direct damage (particularly helpful when something like Moat is stopping your Piledrivers).
On May 31 2008 07:31 Lisk wrote: Some cards are good against other cards. If the other cards are in the top decks, such good counter cards will be played. Example - spell snare (counters goyf,counterbalance,daze,etc).
I have been reading up on this game for the last couple of days and have been becoming more and more interested about making it a hobby. I have watched the videos provided by WotC however I still would like to know if there is any articles that I could read that summarize the set changes and evolutions the game went through. Perhaps something that would show me how much its changed and why its changed.
On May 31 2008 07:19 CharlieMurphy wrote: Does anyone know why Goblin Sharpshooter is so good? It looks like crap to me. I mean I can see its use in like a corpse dance deck but thats not that good.
I use goblin sharpshooter in my red-blue control deck, its really useful against other gobbos/elves/enemy pingers. Plus with repercussion and furnace of rath it becomes even more imba.
Goblin Sharpshooter kicks ass as an end-game sweeper or even a kill, if you pick it up with a tutor-like card (goblin matron) and drop a siege commander (which most aggro-goblin decks play anyway).
I don't see goblin sharpshooter being useful in anything but a multi color deck with something like corpse dance/bottle gnomes. Because don't you only get to untap him once if someone earthquakes for 3 (or wrath of god) or whatever and kills 10 creatures at once (assuming that he didn't die)?
Goblin war strike or even last-ditch effort seem to be much more useful to me (especially if you boggart shenanigans out).
Well it's a situational card but most of the time you'd only play 1 anyway =) It's not a goblin piledriver or something but it has its niche and it owns in it.
I don't see goblin sharpshooter being useful in anything but a multi color deck with something like corpse dance/bottle gnomes. Because don't you only get to untap him once if someone earthquakes for 3 (or wrath of god) or whatever and kills 10 creatures at once (assuming that he didn't die)?
Goblin decks are full of low toughness monsters. You would not want to be running earthquake or whatever boardclearers. Especially since that's how sharpshooter works. He's essentially a permanent tremor on your opponent's creatures.
K, so, he untaps when shit dies right? And he can deal damage? Imagine your opponent has 5 1/1s out. Would you earthquake to untap him? Or would you just keep him untapped in the first place and have him kill all 5, untapping after each kill? Now, think about it like this; say you've got some direct damage in your hand. For simplicity, lets say its shock. Against creatures with 3 toughness, shock would do nothing, but now you can shock and then sharpshooter. Imagine blocking a 2/2 with a 1/1 first strike. Suddenly with sharpshooter you win.
What's more: you don't just win. You win with no card cost. This isn't a shower of sparks or some shit that's wasting handspace. this is essentially a permanent 0/-1 on your opponents shit, in the form of a cute creature that can combo to also vomit damage at your opponent's face. That's quality in the format its used. High quality.
you're argument is retarded if my guy is gonna block and die hes already doing damage anyways so the shock will kill him by itself. I didn't say I was earthquaking and besides the point was that he can only untap once if 5 guys die at once right? I do understand how he can combo kill 1/1s forever, but that is pretty stupid to me because this guy is not going to be out in play all game, any good player will see his power when the time comes and kill him before he even does anything. so tremor would actually be better.
If you earthquake, sending say 5 creatures to the graveyard, and the Sharpshooter somehow survives, it can be untapped (and ping) 5 times.
But here's a sample hand to show what Sharpshooter can do in FCG even not against a board of small creatures:
Turn 1: My Hand (mulliganed): Lackey, Mountain, Elvish Spirit Guide, Wooded Foothills, Food Chain, Goblin Matron
Me (circa 2003 FCG): Moutain, Goblin Lackey (Force of Will'd (-1 life)) Him (circa 2008 budget Oath): Forbidden Orchard, Mox, Oath of Druids.
Turn 2: Me: Draw Piledriver. Foothills -> mountain (19 life), ESG, Food Chain. Hit for 1 /w token. Him (18 life): Oath up Razia. Hit for 6 (13 life) Underground Sea, Thoughtseize taking Piledriver (him at 16 life).
Turn 3: Me: Draw Wasteland. Wasteland, Goblin Matron for Recruiter. Him: Oath up Akroma, hit for 12 (1 life). Land, Tinker, sacking mox for Platinum Angel.
Turn 4: Me: Draw Gempalm Incinerator. Recruiter. Play Recruiter stacking:
Then out of nowhere, he plays Extirpate targetting Piledriver.
So: Sack recruiter (RRRR (Food Chain + Mountain)), cycling Incinerator for 0 (RR). Sack Matron (RRRRRR), Play Ringleader then sack (RRRRRRR), Warchief (RRRR). Play Ringleader 2 then sack (RRRRRR). Play Ringleader 3 then sack (RRRRRRRR). Play Ringleader 4 then sack (RRRRRRRRRR). Play Warchief 2 (RRRRRRRR). Prospector (RRRRRRR). Play SGC's (R). Sack an SGC (RRRRRRR). Play Sharpshooter, Prospector, and Incinerator's (RR). Now attacking (all sacs are to Prospector unless specified to SGC): Ping with Sharpshooter (15 life). Sac 2 SGC tokens, and sac the third to SGC (10 life). Repeat with remaining set of SGC tokens (5 life). Sac 2 incinerators, ping twice, then sac last to SGC (0 life). Sac a prospector and Warchief to ping angel twice. Sac final prospector to SGC. GG.
A good FCG hand, winning through a ridiculously good Oath hand due to Sharpshooter.
Oops, you should be sacking the matron first to play the recruiter, then use land mana to cycle.
So yes, that mistake would have cost me the game .
EDIT: Just a note, I do understand (being a former Oath player myself) that the Oath should have won, but this is example was spontaneously made purely to show the potential of a Sharpshooter (not FCG).
On June 01 2008 10:01 CharlieMurphy wrote: you're argument is retarded if my guy is gonna block and die hes already doing damage anyways so the shock will kill him by itself. I didn't say I was earthquaking and besides the point was that he can only untap once if 5 guys die at once right? I do understand how he can combo kill 1/1s forever, but that is pretty stupid to me because this guy is not going to be out in play all game, any good player will see his power when the time comes and kill him before he even does anything. so tremor would actually be better.
If your guy dies the sharpshooter can ping *you* as well, for 1 damage. If 3 guys die the sharpshooter can ping you 3 times for 3 damage. If you sacrifice a board full of goblins to a skirk prospector/siege-gang commander combo he can ping you 7 or 8 times, and the siege-gang commander can ping you 3 or 4 times for about 15 damage in total. That's nothing to sneeze at =) And these numbers aren't made up, they're average every-day run-of-the-mill vial/ringleader goblin numbers.
All the creatures are put into the graveyard simultaneously. If more than one permanent goes to your graveyard at the same time, you determine their order, but that has no effect on triggered abilities. If multiple abilities trigger as the result of the same event, then the activate player puts his triggers on the stack first.
Goblin Sharpshooter sees all those other creatures go to the graveyard at the same time he does - but it's a moot point. You won't get priority to activate his ability until the Wrath finishes resolving, and at that point he's already in the graveyard. You can't activate him. The most damage you'll get out of this situation is one, and that's only if he's untapped when the opponent announces Wrath.
On June 02 2008 03:18 Lisk wrote: All the creatures are put into the graveyard simultaneously. If more than one permanent goes to your graveyard at the same time, you determine their order, but that has no effect on triggered abilities. If multiple abilities trigger as the result of the same event, then the activate player puts his triggers on the stack first.
Goblin Sharpshooter sees all those other creatures go to the graveyard at the same time he does - but it's a moot point. You won't get priority to activate his ability until the Wrath finishes resolving, and at that point he's already in the graveyard. You can't activate him. The most damage you'll get out of this situation is one, and that's only if he's untapped when the opponent announces Wrath.
That's true. He can respond to all triggers when *other* stuff dies simultaneously though, say you play a flamewave and kill 4 creatures with it, he can ping 4 times.
On June 02 2008 03:18 Lisk wrote: All the creatures are put into the graveyard simultaneously. If more than one permanent goes to your graveyard at the same time, you determine their order, but that has no effect on triggered abilities. If multiple abilities trigger as the result of the same event, then the activate player puts his triggers on the stack first.
Goblin Sharpshooter sees all those other creatures go to the graveyard at the same time he does - but it's a moot point. You won't get priority to activate his ability until the Wrath finishes resolving, and at that point he's already in the graveyard. You can't activate him. The most damage you'll get out of this situation is one, and that's only if he's untapped when the opponent announces Wrath.
That's true. He can respond to all triggers when *other* stuff dies simultaneously though, say you play a flamewave and kill 4 creatures with it, he can ping 4 times.
On June 02 2008 03:18 Lisk wrote: All the creatures are put into the graveyard simultaneously. If more than one permanent goes to your graveyard at the same time, you determine their order, but that has no effect on triggered abilities. If multiple abilities trigger as the result of the same event, then the activate player puts his triggers on the stack first.
Goblin Sharpshooter sees all those other creatures go to the graveyard at the same time he does - but it's a moot point. You won't get priority to activate his ability until the Wrath finishes resolving, and at that point he's already in the graveyard. You can't activate him. The most damage you'll get out of this situation is one, and that's only if he's untapped when the opponent announces Wrath.
4 creatures still die, and so 4 triggers go on the stack. You control the triggers, so you would order them since they all happened simultaneously. Therefore the pings would add up to 4.
On June 02 2008 03:18 Lisk wrote: All the creatures are put into the graveyard simultaneously. If more than one permanent goes to your graveyard at the same time, you determine their order, but that has no effect on triggered abilities. If multiple abilities trigger as the result of the same event, then the activate player puts his triggers on the stack first.
Goblin Sharpshooter sees all those other creatures go to the graveyard at the same time he does - but it's a moot point. You won't get priority to activate his ability until the Wrath finishes resolving, and at that point he's already in the graveyard. You can't activate him. The most damage you'll get out of this situation is one, and that's only if he's untapped when the opponent announces Wrath.
4 creatures still die, and so 4 triggers go on the stack. You control the triggers, so you would order them since they all happened simultaneously. Therefore the pings would add up to 4.
You can't untap something dead. So, no. Only 1 ping in response to Wrath of God.
On June 02 2008 03:18 Lisk wrote: All the creatures are put into the graveyard simultaneously. If more than one permanent goes to your graveyard at the same time, you determine their order, but that has no effect on triggered abilities. If multiple abilities trigger as the result of the same event, then the activate player puts his triggers on the stack first.
Goblin Sharpshooter sees all those other creatures go to the graveyard at the same time he does - but it's a moot point. You won't get priority to activate his ability until the Wrath finishes resolving, and at that point he's already in the graveyard. You can't activate him. The most damage you'll get out of this situation is one, and that's only if he's untapped when the opponent announces Wrath.
4 creatures still die, and so 4 triggers go on the stack. You control the triggers, so you would order them since they all happened simultaneously. Therefore the pings would add up to 4.
You can't untap something dead. So, no. Only 1 ping in response to Wrath of God.
Technically it goes into the stack though. So the goblin would not be dead. It could still play its ability for however many creatures were eliminated with Wrath of God.
On June 02 2008 03:18 Lisk wrote: All the creatures are put into the graveyard simultaneously. If more than one permanent goes to your graveyard at the same time, you determine their order, but that has no effect on triggered abilities. If multiple abilities trigger as the result of the same event, then the activate player puts his triggers on the stack first.
Goblin Sharpshooter sees all those other creatures go to the graveyard at the same time he does - but it's a moot point. You won't get priority to activate his ability until the Wrath finishes resolving, and at that point he's already in the graveyard. You can't activate him. The most damage you'll get out of this situation is one, and that's only if he's untapped when the opponent announces Wrath.
4 creatures still die, and so 4 triggers go on the stack. You control the triggers, so you would order them since they all happened simultaneously. Therefore the pings would add up to 4.
You can't untap something dead. So, no. Only 1 ping in response to Wrath of God.
Technically it goes into the stack though. So the goblin would not be dead. It could still play its ability for however many creatures were eliminated with Wrath of God.
Right?
Wrath of God is announced. The stack has WOG on it. You ping for 1 damage in response (If you could tap it). WOG resolves. - Every creature dies at the same time. - Untap triggers go on the stack. Untap what? They fizzle.
You don't choose the order in which creatures die. Lots of rule fuckerings happen about the 'at the same time' stuff.
On June 02 2008 03:18 Lisk wrote: All the creatures are put into the graveyard simultaneously. If more than one permanent goes to your graveyard at the same time, you determine their order, but that has no effect on triggered abilities. If multiple abilities trigger as the result of the same event, then the activate player puts his triggers on the stack first.
Goblin Sharpshooter sees all those other creatures go to the graveyard at the same time he does - but it's a moot point. You won't get priority to activate his ability until the Wrath finishes resolving, and at that point he's already in the graveyard. You can't activate him. The most damage you'll get out of this situation is one, and that's only if he's untapped when the opponent announces Wrath.
4 creatures still die, and so 4 triggers go on the stack. You control the triggers, so you would order them since they all happened simultaneously. Therefore the pings would add up to 4.
You can't untap something dead. So, no. Only 1 ping in response to Wrath of God.
Technically it goes into the stack though. So the goblin would not be dead. It could still play its ability for however many creatures were eliminated with Wrath of God.
Right?
nono
Wrath of God played -> You tap in response -> Stack resolves.
So, you don't get a chance to untap, because ALL creatures die AT ONCE.
On June 02 2008 03:18 Lisk wrote: All the creatures are put into the graveyard simultaneously. If more than one permanent goes to your graveyard at the same time, you determine their order, but that has no effect on triggered abilities. If multiple abilities trigger as the result of the same event, then the activate player puts his triggers on the stack first.
Goblin Sharpshooter sees all those other creatures go to the graveyard at the same time he does - but it's a moot point. You won't get priority to activate his ability until the Wrath finishes resolving, and at that point he's already in the graveyard. You can't activate him. The most damage you'll get out of this situation is one, and that's only if he's untapped when the opponent announces Wrath.
4 creatures still die, and so 4 triggers go on the stack. You control the triggers, so you would order them since they all happened simultaneously. Therefore the pings would add up to 4.
You can't untap something dead. So, no. Only 1 ping in response to Wrath of God.
Technically it goes into the stack though. So the goblin would not be dead. It could still play its ability for however many creatures were eliminated with Wrath of God.
Right?
nono
Wrath of God played -> You tap in response -> Stack resolves.
So, you don't get a chance to untap, because ALL creatures die AT ONCE.
Yeah I gave it more thought, you are right. Because Wrath of God wouldn't be played yet technically, when you tap your sniper. Then all creatures die at once.
Ugh Magic is a silly game.
Anyway quick question again. If a creature is phased it pretty much means it's not in play right? I'm working on an odd Phasing/Jokluhaups combo deck. Just need to make sure that a phased creature is unharmed by the spells effects.
On June 02 2008 03:18 Lisk wrote: All the creatures are put into the graveyard simultaneously. If more than one permanent goes to your graveyard at the same time, you determine their order, but that has no effect on triggered abilities. If multiple abilities trigger as the result of the same event, then the activate player puts his triggers on the stack first.
Goblin Sharpshooter sees all those other creatures go to the graveyard at the same time he does - but it's a moot point. You won't get priority to activate his ability until the Wrath finishes resolving, and at that point he's already in the graveyard. You can't activate him. The most damage you'll get out of this situation is one, and that's only if he's untapped when the opponent announces Wrath.
4 creatures still die, and so 4 triggers go on the stack. You control the triggers, so you would order them since they all happened simultaneously. Therefore the pings would add up to 4.
You can't untap something dead. So, no. Only 1 ping in response to Wrath of God.
Technically it goes into the stack though. So the goblin would not be dead. It could still play its ability for however many creatures were eliminated with Wrath of God.
Right?
nono
Wrath of God played -> You tap in response -> Stack resolves.
So, you don't get a chance to untap, because ALL creatures die AT ONCE.
I was under the assumption that A) Earthquake is being played, not wrath, and B) that you had away to save the sharpshooter (ProRed, a pump spell of some sort.)
My point was multiple creatures dying at the same time will trigger the sharpshooters ability a number equal to the creatures dying. However, WoG would kill the sharpshooter, so in this example,there would be no untapping, because by the time the sharpshooters ability would trigger (creatures hitting the bin) It would have been placed in the yard.
On June 02 2008 03:18 Lisk wrote: All the creatures are put into the graveyard simultaneously. If more than one permanent goes to your graveyard at the same time, you determine their order, but that has no effect on triggered abilities. If multiple abilities trigger as the result of the same event, then the activate player puts his triggers on the stack first.
Goblin Sharpshooter sees all those other creatures go to the graveyard at the same time he does - but it's a moot point. You won't get priority to activate his ability until the Wrath finishes resolving, and at that point he's already in the graveyard. You can't activate him. The most damage you'll get out of this situation is one, and that's only if he's untapped when the opponent announces Wrath.
4 creatures still die, and so 4 triggers go on the stack. You control the triggers, so you would order them since they all happened simultaneously. Therefore the pings would add up to 4.
You can't untap something dead. So, no. Only 1 ping in response to Wrath of God.
Technically it goes into the stack though. So the goblin would not be dead. It could still play its ability for however many creatures were eliminated with Wrath of God.
Right?
nono
Wrath of God played -> You tap in response -> Stack resolves.
So, you don't get a chance to untap, because ALL creatures die AT ONCE.
I was under the assumption that A) Earthquake is being played, not wrath, and B) that you had away to save the sharpshooter (ProRed, a pump spell of some sort.)
My point was multiple creatures dying at the same time will trigger the sharpshooters ability a number equal to the creatures dying. However, WoG would kill the sharpshooter, so in this example,there would be no untapping, because by the time the sharpshooters ability would trigger (creatures hitting the bin) It would have been placed in the yard.
Then yes, if your goblin survives, it can activate its ability.
Some one has to explain to me what these Plains Walker cards are. Lets use Garruk for example. What does his abilities mean. You untap two lands, and you get +1 counter? Then if you remove 1 counter, you can put a 3/3 creature into play? Wouldn't that mean you could keep untapping lands, while playing your hand?
I mean I really don't understand how that card works at all. Also how do you kill them? Since it's not a creature.
EDIT: Can its abilities only be played once per turn? Because that would make more sense.
This will be the format: 2 groups of 5, randomly assigned, will each play eachother in a bo2. You are allowed to use your Sideboard in game 2. If you win 2-0, you gain three points. If you play 1-1, both players gain one point. Losing gives no points. The reason I've decided for a bo2 instead of a bo3 is that there will be a lot of games in Round 1.
From here, the player placing first from each group advance to the semifinals. The players placing second and third will advance to round 2. Group A's second place will play Group B's third place and the other way around. These matches will be bo3, and the winners advance to the semifinals.
The semifinals will be bo5 and the finals will be bo7. There will be a loser's finals as well, which will be bo5.
The groups are as following: Group A: 1. fgsvsd (TL.net) 2. Caller (TL.net) 3. LordWeirD (GG.net) 4. Demoninja (TL.net) 5. kirtar111 (TL.net)
On June 02 2008 17:19 Krohm wrote: Some one has to explain to me what these Plains Walker cards are. Lets use Garruk for example. What does his abilities mean. You untap two lands, and you get +1 counter? Then if you remove 1 counter, you can put a 3/3 creature into play? Wouldn't that mean you could keep untapping lands, while playing your hand?
I mean I really don't understand how that card works at all. Also how do you kill them? Since it's not a creature.
EDIT: Can its abilities only be played once per turn? Because that would make more sense.
Planeswalkers have their own category, aptly named 'planeswalker'. They count as permanents so a vindicate will fix them for you. They start with a set amount of 'loyalty' which is the counters placed on them, as showed in the bottom right. They don't have 'summoning sickness'. Every turn, at the time you could play a sorcery, you can use one of their abilities. That means, every turn Garruk would be able to untap 2 of your lands and get +1 counter, make a 3/3 creature and lose a counter, or give all your creatures overrun and lose 4 counters. As soon as all counters are gone, a planeswalker dies and goes into the graveyard.
Creatures can choose to attack either a player or a planeswalker, blocking works normally, trample etc too. For every point of damage a plainswalker receives, remove 1 loyalty counter. Effects like Lightning Bolt are supposed to target players, and if the player who's targeted by them, decides to let the spell resolve, the person playing the ability can then decide to let it go into the planeswalker instead. This to avoid having to write new oraclerules for every spell saying 'deals 3 damage to target creature, player or planeswalker.'
Spells like earthquake which damage everything, don't hit planeswalkers.
Also: The new restrictions won't be effective until the 20th of June =) So have fun playing 4 brainstorms and 4 ponders!
I have a question, If someone has a morphling and I have a 5/5 attacking and he blocks it is he allowed to pump morphling power x2 then pump his toughness x3 to kill my creature and let his morphling live? Or does he need to pump x5 for the original -2 toughness (my friends say its legit). This is the like the most imbalanced 'damage on the stack' use ever, even if its +2 power then +5 toughness.
I don't see how he can 'stack' a +2 while having a -3 if damage all happens at the same time.
Wasn't too sure about this, asked my nephew since he's a judge and he told me it's possible to make the morphling 5/1, stack the damage, and respond by turning the morphling 0/6 before the actual damage resolves. So yes, it's pretty imba, but then again it costs shitloads of mana as well so meh.
On June 04 2008 04:06 Stegosaur wrote: Wasn't too sure about this, asked my nephew since he's a judge and he told me it's possible to make the morphling 5/1, stack the damage, and respond by turning the morphling 0/6 before the actual damage resolves. So yes, it's pretty imba, but then again it costs shitloads of mana as well so meh.
Not, really that only 5 mana.
I don't see how that works though because if the damage didn't resolve yet and you stack a 0 damage on top, then how does the 5 damage go off with the last in first out rule if they doing damage at the same time. And not only that but shoudln't the negatives be countering each pump out forcing you to pump twice as hard to 'stack' it?
On June 04 2008 04:06 Stegosaur wrote: Wasn't too sure about this, asked my nephew since he's a judge and he told me it's possible to make the morphling 5/1, stack the damage, and respond by turning the morphling 0/6 before the actual damage resolves. So yes, it's pretty imba, but then again it costs shitloads of mana as well so meh.
Not, really that only 5 mana.
I don't see how that works though because if the damage didn't resolve yet and you stack a 0 damage on top, then how does the 5 damage go off with the last in first out rule if they doing damage at the same time. And not only that but shoudln't the negatives be countering each pump out forcing you to pump twice as hard to 'stack' it?
Yeah, sorry I guess I misunderstood your question. Combat works like this. Declare attackers > morphling attacks Declare blockers > 5/5 creature Here it comes: Stack combatdamage: Creatures hit eachother for an amount of damage which is then placed on the stack. Resolve combatdamage: Creatures receive the actual damage, and possible lethal damage.
You can respond to each of these steps, you can respond to the declare blockers step by giving your morphling +2/-2, making it 5/1, and go on to the stack combatdamage step. The damage is then administered to both creatures, who both receive 5 damage. When this happens your friend can choose to turn his morphling into 0/6, by spending 5 more mana to give it -5/+5.
If he'd spend 5 mana in the way you said, the morphling would end up 2/4, no questions asked.
On June 04 2008 04:06 Stegosaur wrote: Wasn't too sure about this, asked my nephew since he's a judge and he told me it's possible to make the morphling 5/1, stack the damage, and respond by turning the morphling 0/6 before the actual damage resolves. So yes, it's pretty imba, but then again it costs shitloads of mana as well so meh.
Not, really that only 5 mana.
I don't see how that works though because if the damage didn't resolve yet and you stack a 0 damage on top, then how does the 5 damage go off with the last in first out rule if they doing damage at the same time. And not only that but shoudln't the negatives be countering each pump out forcing you to pump twice as hard to 'stack' it?
You're not quite understanding how the stack works with combat damage I think. Combat damage is put automatically on the stack at the start of the combat damage phase, then you both get to play spells/abilties in response. Here is your example :
Declare Blockers Step: You block Morphling with Juzam Djinn (5/5) You have no spells to play so you pass. Your friend pumps morphling to 5/1. The pumps go on the stack. You both pass and the stack resolves.
Morphling is 5/1
Combat Damage Step:
Combat damage is assigned and put on the stack. Morph and Djinn do 5 damage to each other - this damage is put on the stack.
You have no spells to play and pass. Your friend pumps morphling to 0/6. The effect goes on the stack. You both pass. Stack resolves on a first in, last out basis.
Stack resolving looks liks this: Morph becomes 0/6. Combat damage goes through. Morph does 5 damage to Djinn and survives.
This works because combat damage is put on the stack automatically at the start of the combat phase. It doesn't matter what happens to the Morphlings power afterwards because combat damage is only assigned once at the start of the phase.
Bad news, I may or may not be able to make it for the Tournament. I have to work from 8 AM - 6 PM. However, IF* I can pirate a wireless signal from some where around my work area. I will be able to make it. So its really a huge "Maybe". We'll see... I knew this was going to happen.
On June 05 2008 04:06 CharlieMurphy wrote: ok, that makes a bit more sense to me guys thanks. But I am still a bit confused about how much mana (pumps must be made) to do this.
You use 2 for +2/-2, then you must use 5 for the -5/+5 correct? Or does he only have to use 3 for -3/+3 ?
On June 05 2008 05:56 Centric wrote: Can I get in on this? Is it too late? M:TG ruled and ruined my life when I was in middle school, but now I'm all grown-up and mature.
Ok not really. I'm really not well-versed in the newer sets though, so I'll need to read up a little.
We're not using the newer sets, so you should be ok. (Nothing past 5th dawn) If you really want to play. I will give up my spot due to the fact that I'm not sure if I can make it. I'd rather just give it to some one who is a sure thing. Hopefully I can catch the next MTG tourny if there is another.
Eh, I haven't played since Judgement came out. I think I'll sit out this time (I have finals anyway) but if you guys do this again, I'd like to join in.
Hey Artanis, I'm really sorry but I accidently double-booked. I agreed to go somewhere tomorrow and it's more important to me then the magic tournament. I'm sorry, but since I'm dropping out, it works evenly now since Krohm can't play either.
Updated Roster should be like this Group A: 1. fgsvsd (TL.net) 2. Caller (TL.net) 3. LordWeirD (GG.net) 4. kirtar111 (TL.net)
[b]To start playing, simply host a game saying "Group A" or "Group B" on the mwsgames.net network, and play a bo3 vs any of the other players in the group.
Group A: 1. fgsvsd (TL.net) 3-0 (won 2-0 vs Caller and 2-0 vs LordWeirD, WO vs kirtar) 2. Caller (TL.net) 1-1 (lost vs 0-2 fgsvsd, 1-0 then WO vs kirtar111) 3. LordWeirD (GG.net) 1-1 (lost 0-2 vs fgsvsd, WO vs kirtar111) 4. kirtar111 (TL.net) 0-3 (WO vs everyone)
Group B: 1. Lisk (TL.net) 3-0 (won 2-1 vs FragKrag and 2-0 vs DeaTh_LT, WO vs brambolius) 3. DeaTh_LT (TL.net) 2-1 (lost 0-2 vs Lisk, WO vs brambolius, won 2-0 vs FragKrag) 2. FragKrag (TL.net) 1-2 (lost vs 1-2 Lisk, WO vs brambolius, lost 0-2 vs DeaTh_LT) 4. brambolius (GG.net) 0-3 (WO vs everyone)
The matches for second place aren't really neccesary, but I suggest you play them anyway for the fun of it.
On June 08 2008 04:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: LordWeirD had some car-related problems due to which he couldn't play. I suggest we give caller a WO and advance to round 2.
ROUND 2: Caller vs FragKrag DeaTh_LT vs LordWeirD
SEMIFINALS: Winner of Caller vs Fragkrag vs Lisk Winner of DeaTh_LT vs LordWeirD vs fgsvsd
Yeah sorry guys, I went to the mall (I bought a sweet Maiden shirt) and grabbed a beer with a friend and when I came out my damn tire was flat. Had to spend most the day trying to figure out a cheap and fast way to get it fixed :\
I'm down for games tomorrow or next Saturday, same time. I'm on EST time btw.
he has a creature in play I play the card "clone" who enters in play as a copy of this creature
he plays another creature i play the card "cytoshape" (target creature (the clone) becomes the copy of that creature (the 2nd creature of my opposant) until the end of turn)
At the end of my turn when the clone goes back to his previous form, does he go bak to a 0/0 clone (and so go to the graveyard) or does he go back to the 1st creature of my opposant ?
On June 08 2008 04:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: LordWeirD had some car-related problems due to which he couldn't play. I suggest we give caller a WO and advance to round 2.
ROUND 2: Caller vs FragKrag DeaTh_LT vs LordWeirD
SEMIFINALS: Winner of Caller vs Fragkrag vs Lisk Winner of DeaTh_LT vs LordWeirD vs fgsvsd
What are your suggested times, gentlemen?
next saturday same time gogo
Sounds good. Edit: Or maybe even a bit earlier than last time would be better...
Caller: c73d3d9c DeaTh_LT: 6b6f5999 (A certain card's edition malfunctioned here though and I had to replace it, so it might be a bit diffrent) fgsvsd: 647bbac3 FragKrag: 8602623b lisk: 9f8dc4f2 LordWeirD: 6fef748b
I got an odd question. Can you counter your own spells.... Heres my theory.
I play the sorcery Mana Severance. It's self target only. I then counter my own spell with deflection (Or any counter that redirects a target works), and redirect it at an opponent. Therefore causing him to discard all the mana in his deck.
I mean it just sounds like a really cheap ploy that I've never heard of. So I'm just assuming it can't be done.
EDIT: I read Mana Severance wrong, but my initial question still stands.
On June 30 2008 21:10 Krohm wrote: Bumping this for another MTG question.
I got an odd question. Can you counter your own spells.... Heres my theory.
I play the sorcery Mana Severance. It's self target only. I then counter my own spell with deflection (Or any counter that redirects a target works), and redirect it at an opponent. Therefore causing him to discard all the mana in his deck.
I mean it just sounds like a really cheap ploy that I've never heard of. So I'm just assuming it can't be done.
This doesn't work because Mana Severance doesn't target anyone.
Mana Severance reads: Search your library for any number of land cards and remove them from the game. Then shuffle your library.
The use of the word "your" implies the owner's library.
Deflection reads: Change the target of target spell with a single target.
You'd target the spell Mana Severance while it's on the stack and you have priority, but since Mana Severance doesn't have a target, Deflection would fail to find a target, and would do nothing.
But, for reference, you can counter your own spells.
Damn I wish I could have gotten in on this MTG tournament. We should hold another one sometime soon
On June 18 2008 07:56 CharlieMurphy wrote: If my friend taps my goblin with a master decoy and in response I incinerate his decoy, does my guy still tap?
On June 18 2008 07:56 CharlieMurphy wrote: If my friend taps my goblin with a master decoy and in response I incinerate his decoy, does my guy still tap?
Longer answer: As soon as an ability is paid, in total, it goes on the stack and can't be prevented except by stuff like Stifle. You can't respond to people paying activation costs, so if something says 'sacrifice a creature: do 3 damage' you can't respond by quickly burning the creature he's going to sacrifice.
Yes. Similar to how wrath of god works on protection from white.
A permanent with protection can't be targeted by spells with the stated quality and can't be targeted by abilities from a source with the stated quality. A permanent with protection can't be enchanted by Auras that have the stated quality. A permanent with protection can't be equipped by Equipment that have the stated quality. Any damage that would be dealt by sources that have the stated quality to a permanent that has protection is prevented. If a creature with protection attacks, it can't be blocked by creatures that have the stated quality.
On July 13 2008 12:39 Krohm wrote: Is there any Red card that can destroy enchantments? I've been looking and have found nothing...
Red can't really deal with enchantments, but if you are playing against Blue, pyroblast will work. TBH, I think the only way to play mono red are mono-red goblins.
However Rout can be played at instant speed, for a whopping 7 mana. I'd say, go for the WoG. Also, there's 1 single card in red that can kill enchantments, and it's called apocalypse. My advice would be, put a couple of taiga's in your red deck and play krosan grip
The difference in 4 or 5 mana is the difference in casting it turn 4 or turn 5. If you die before turn 5, rout is useless. However, if the game goes long, then instant speed Rout is very useful, but WoG is the better card overall.
EDIT: Why aren't you guys playing anything after 5th dawn?
On July 13 2008 23:11 terr13 wrote: The difference in 4 or 5 mana is the difference in casting it turn 4 or turn 5. If you die before turn 5, rout is useless. However, if the game goes long, then instant speed Rout is very useful, but WoG is the better card overall.
EDIT: Why aren't you guys playing anything after 5th dawn?
Because the guy who hosted the tourney didn't know any sets after fifth dawn IMO, if there's gonna be a new tourney, it should be a normal no-nonsense legacy-format tourney! Will there be another one though?
To the rout/wog question, it really depends on how you are going to play your deck. Generally, 1 less mana makes WoG a better choice, but there are applications for Rout. The +2 for instant is largely useless because you usually won't have 7 untapped lands (but you could pull a city of traitors...).
And apocalypse is just a beefed up WoG.
As a note: If you play mono-red, you might always want to keep pyroblast in your sideboard to knock out force of wills, and sometimes to draw force of wills out.
On July 14 2008 07:27 FragKrag wrote: To the rout/wog question, it really depends on how you are going to play your deck. Generally, 1 less mana makes WoG a better choice, but there are applications for Rout. The +2 for instant is largely useless because you usually won't have 7 untapped lands (but you could pull a city of traitors...).
And apocalypse is just a beefed up WoG.
As a note: If you play mono-red, you might always want to keep pyroblast in your sideboard to knock out force of wills, and sometimes to draw force of wills out.
There is a new red/green card that is like pyroblast against blue but it only counters. (you can pay 1 with either red or green like tattermunge maniac)
Go search for the Cleric-Lifegain combo deck, should still be budget and fairly viable. I recall that can be played as a monowhite deck, though usually splash B.
Well, all ante cards and that weird card from Arabian nights that makes you play a game inside a game. Then again, those are banned in all formats. T1 is known for almost NO banning.
I play a bit of legacy. OP said pre-Fifth Dawn, because everybody knows how imba Kamigawa is lmao.
Oops, pre? Automatically assumed some kind of tournament standard rather than a weird one that came out of nowhere [insert more excuses for not reading properly]
Well, if it is just pre-Fifth Dawn and no ban list, people should all just play Ravager then.
Well, it's no fun then. There's always people who play goblin piledriver, or white weenie. My personal favorite is sui black though. A turn 1 5/5 with trample is always fun.
Well, just saying if this is held tournament style, with Ravager being arguably the strongest thing under that kind of conditions. Playing with a weirder format is cool, but bans and restrictions need to apply unless one wants to run the risk of every more competitive player running some Ravager/Goblin variant featuring Skullclamp.
I was actually thinking something more along the lines of Academy? Academy will kill Ravager before ravager does any damage about 70% of the time, while running 4 counterspells. There's a reason why half the cards in the deck got restricted...
Yeah I had a WW with 4 clamps for casual play online back then, that was fun~
How about Ravager with Academy?
Besides, Academy was never that broken by itself even with that block environment, it is just an enabler after all. Academy was most broken in T1, where the presence of P9 increase its power as an enabler. Now, even with the presence of Mirrodin, it is unlikely that even Academy can outrace Ravager, which was capable of turn 2 kills in a Block/Standard environment.
You have quite enough enablers. LED can replace Black Lotus, Mana crypts, mana vaults, lotus petals. Some draw7 with Windfall and Memory Jar. Then make it go broken with Yawgmoth's Will and Mind's Desire. 3:Abeyance 3ower Sink 3:Intuition 3:Mind over Matter 4:Windfall 4:Stroke of Genius 4:Time Spiral 2:Scroll Rack 3:Voltaic Key 4:Mox Diamond 4:Mana Vault 4:Lotus Petal 3:City of Brass 4:Ancient Tomb 4:Volcanic Island 4:Tolarian Academy 4:Tundra No power 9, yet broken
4: Defense Grid 4:Lions Eye Diamond 4:Lotus Petal 4:Mana Vault 4:Memory Jar 4:Mox Diamond 4: Dark Ritual 1:Megrim 4:Vampiric Tutorial 2:Yawgmoth's Will 4:Brainstorm 1:Mystical totor 4:Tinker 3:Ancient Tomb 4:City of Brass 2:Gemstone Mine 3:Underground River 4:Underground Sea The deck that made WotC ban Memory Jar before it even became legal in tournament play, since it boasts a 70% turn 1 kill. Ravager is capable of turn 2 kills. This is capable and consistent, and this is a list with restrictions in place already.
I remember that now, or rather, I've been made to remember it
Hmm I've been taking lack of Yawgwin, Vault and Tinker (edit and windfall and Jar and all of that insanity) for granted, apparently. When it said P9 banned my brain automatically shifted to Legacy B&R list it seems. I was reading that list and going like "What's up with all these broken...oh, wait..."
Memory Jar wasn't pre-legal ban was it? I thought the only one that made that was Mind's Desire, pretty sure Memory Jar saw play before the series of bans that went on for like 3 months.
Looks like my memory really just took me straight to post the batch of bans that got rid of all of the enablers for Academy.
If my opponent has a creature enchanted with Armadillo +2/2 Trample (Also gains life = to damage dealt).
If I block it with a creature that is protection from creatures colour, does he still gain life? Because technically it does no damage as long as I can prevent the full damage.
Also, if he has two on a single creature. Does that mean the life gain return is doubled?
Protection indeed prevents the damage to be dealt to the creature, however, keep in mind Armadillo Cloak adds trample. So as long as you assign lethal damage to the protected creature, the rest of the damage can still be distributed between player and additional blockers, which will lead to the trigger for lifegain upon damage dealt. As for 2 of them on a single creature, the life gain will be doubled, or rather, the amount that you assign that is actually dealt will trigger twice as two triggered abilities.
It is triggered right, I forgot the exact wording of it, should've been a "whenever [enchanted creature] deals damage..."
Got a couple questions; If my friend plays a thoughtsieze and I have that 1U faerie 1/1 that when it comes into play counter target spell equal or lesser to number of faeries you control, do I have to counter his thoughtseize? Or can I just not counter anything?
Another one; If I use that 2UU faerie 2/2 that takes control of opponents creature when it comes into play until it leaves play, played on my turn after he played his creature the previous turn can I attack with it? Or does it have to be out for his full summoning sickness cycle (unless it has haste), or does that not even matter and the creature can't attack the first time I get it on my side no matter what?
Also; If a player has a flagstones of trokair out and taps it for mana, then brings out another flagstones can he tap it for mana before they both die?
On July 15 2008 01:46 Ecael wrote: Protection indeed prevents the damage to be dealt to the creature, however, keep in mind Armadillo Cloak adds trample. So as long as you assign lethal damage to the protected creature, the rest of the damage can still be distributed between player and additional blockers, which will lead to the trigger for lifegain upon damage dealt. As for 2 of them on a single creature, the life gain will be doubled, or rather, the amount that you assign that is actually dealt will trigger twice as two triggered abilities.
It is triggered right, I forgot the exact wording of it, should've been a "whenever [enchanted creature] deals damage..."
On July 15 2008 06:57 CharlieMurphy wrote: Got a couple questions; If my friend plays a thoughtsieze and I have that 1U faerie 1/1 that when it comes into play counter target spell equal or lesser to number of faeries you control, do I have to counter his thoughtseize? Or can I just not counter anything?
Another one; If I use that 2UU faerie 2/2 that takes control of opponents creature when it comes into play until it leaves play, played on my turn after he played his creature the previous turn can I attack with it? Or does it have to be out for his full summoning sickness cycle (unless it has haste), or does that not even matter and the creature can't attack the first time I get it on my side no matter what?
Also; If a player has a flagstones of trokair out and taps it for mana, then brings out another flagstones can he tap it for mana before they both die?
1: If you play it in response to his thoughtseize you have to counter it (if it's the only spell on the stack at that time) since the text doesn't say 'may'. As a matter of fact, if you play a shriekmaw and you're the only one with any creatures in play, you'll have to kill one of your own things. You can play it at a later time though. The best play here would be 'baiting' him into grabbing your spellstutter sprite so he'll lose 2 life as well, unless you really need the 1/1 beater
2: Nope, the creature is still affected by SS, and wasn't under your control at the start of your turn. Now, if you grabbed it at the end of his turn in some way, he would be able to attack.
3: Nope. Legend-rule = state-based effect, which means it's too fast to respond to with anything. You will, however, get 2 fresh plains.
On July 15 2008 06:57 CharlieMurphy wrote: Got a couple questions; If my friend plays a thoughtsieze and I have that 1U faerie 1/1 that when it comes into play counter target spell equal or lesser to number of faeries you control, do I have to counter his thoughtseize? Or can I just not counter anything?
Another one; If I use that 2UU faerie 2/2 that takes control of opponents creature when it comes into play until it leaves play, played on my turn after he played his creature the previous turn can I attack with it? Or does it have to be out for his full summoning sickness cycle (unless it has haste), or does that not even matter and the creature can't attack the first time I get it on my side no matter what?
Also; If a player has a flagstones of trokair out and taps it for mana, then brings out another flagstones can he tap it for mana before they both die?
1. No, when a creature has an effect that comes into play, they can only use it when they come into play. You cannot counter.
1 Frag, you are way off. Its a flash creature so it can be played as an instant. I could however (uselessy) play it to counter itself and then he would be wasting his thoughtsieze and lose 2 life.
2 neither of you answered this fully, there was 3 questions in there. All scenarios are effect by SS? I understand it being under SS if he brough it out last turn, but if it has already been out for a bunch of turns is it under a new SS for me? (Its called SUMMONING sickness, I didn't play it, I just stole it)
3 I can tap the one Trokair before the other is played. (but the 2 plains still come into play tapped.) so i'll have 1 mana floating and 2 plains cycled in.
1, but if it is proc CIP, then you can't counter itself either as the trigger is generated upon the resolution of the spell. Got the specific text? I am not too good with new cards.
2, "The term "summoning sickness" is an informal term which describes a creature's inability to attack or to use activated abilities that include the tap symbol or the untap symbol when it has come under a player's control since the beginning of that player's most recent turn."
3, no, you can't, Legend rule is state based effect, and you can't respond to playing of a mana ability/playing a land.
On July 15 2008 08:39 CharlieMurphy wrote: 1 Frag, you are way off. Its a flash creature so it can be played as an instant. I could however (uselessy) play it to counter itself and then he would be wasting his thoughtsieze and lose 2 life.
2 neither of you answered this fully, there was 3 questions in there. All scenarios are effect by SS? I understand it being under SS if he brough it out last turn, but if it has already been out for a bunch of turns is it under a new SS for me? (Its called SUMMONING sickness, I didn't play it, I just stole it)
3 I can tap the one Trokair before the other is played. (but the 2 plains still come into play tapped.) so i'll have 1 mana floating and 2 plains cycled in.
On July 15 2008 09:03 Ecael wrote: 1, but if it is proc CIP, then you can't counter itself either as the trigger is generated upon the resolution of the spell. Got the specific text? I am not too good with new cards.
2, "The term "summoning sickness" is an informal term which describes a creature's inability to attack or to use activated abilities that include the tap symbol or the untap symbol when it has come under a player's control since the beginning of that player's most recent turn."
3, no, you can't, Legend rule is state based effect, and you can't respond to playing of a mana ability/playing a land.
ok, but 3 you guys are misunderstanding. I tap the trokair in play for a mana. it resolves, 5 seconds later I play my other trokair- both die.
1: You can't let the sprite counter itself, since the 'counter a spell' part goes in effect when the spell is already allowed to resolve, at which moment it's too late.
2: Whenever a creature enters your control, it will be affected by summoning sickness. So if you grab your opponent's creature during your own turn you won't be able to attack with it. However, if you grab it during your opponent's turn, it will be under your control at the beginning of your own turn, thus enabling you to attack with it.
3: There's nothing stopping you from floating mana and then playing a land, the new flagstones won't be able to tap before dying though.
On July 16 2008 02:45 Krohm wrote: Can you sacrafice a creature after its been targeted with a spell that causes it to die, or else from actual creature damage?
Example, I have a blood pet out, opponent shocks it, in response I sacrifice it, and get 1 B mana.
Or, They have another 1/1 creature out. They attack, I block with blood pet, and sacrifice it. (I just don't see how this one is possible...)
You can:
shock: Player plays shock, you respond by saccing. The stack will look like this:
==Top== Sacrifice blood pet Shock ==Bottom==
so first the blood pet will be sacced, then the shock will resolve, find no target and miss, doing nothing.
Blocking: You assign blood pet as blocker, and if the block is legal the attacking creature will be counted as blocked and you can do whatever the hell you want with your blood pet. You can sac it then and there, but the best would be to wait for the combatdamage to be assigned and put on the stack, after which you can STILL sac it and get your mana, and get it to hit the attacking creature for 1 as well. You will, however, suffer a point of manaburn, after the turn transitions to the post-combat main phase, unless you've got something to spend it on during the combatphase.
On July 16 2008 02:45 Krohm wrote: Can you sacrafice a creature after its been targeted with a spell that causes it to die, or else from actual creature damage?
Example, I have a blood pet out, opponent shocks it, in response I sacrifice it, and get 1 B mana.
Or, They have another 1/1 creature out. They attack, I block with blood pet, and sacrifice it. (I just don't see how this one is possible...)
You can:
shock: Player plays shock, you respond by saccing. The stack will look like this:
==Top== Sacrifice blood pet Shock ==Bottom==
so first the blood pet will be sacced, then the shock will resolve, find no target and miss, doing nothing.
Blocking: You assign blood pet as blocker, and if the block is legal the attacking creature will be counted as blocked and you can do whatever the hell you want with your blood pet. You can sac it then and there, but the best would be to wait for the combatdamage to be assigned and put on the stack, after which you can STILL sac it and get your mana, and get it to hit the attacking creature for 1 as well. You will, however, suffer a point of manaburn, after the turn transitions to the post-combat main phase, unless you've got something to spend it on during the combatphase.
agreed, Thats why cards like Mogg Fanatic are so good. (it used to be a common and was reprinted as an uncommon)
Sacrificing is part of the cost, so it never enters the stack. Only the effect would, but in the case of blood pet it is a mana ability, and wouldn't use the stack.
Vintage aka Type 1: This is where the real pimps are, every card is allowed (except for the vintage banned/restricted list) and practically every deck holds the power 9: lotus, 5 moxen, time walk, timetwister, ancestral recall
Legacy aka Type 1.5: The best format in my opinion. Play with whatever cards you want, no restricted cards, but a banned list with almost all the $$$-cards, so no lotus, no moxen, no library of alexandria, no mishra's workshop etc.
Standard aka type 2: Play with the 2 latest blocks + the latest core set. This format is dominated by highly expensive cards which drop in price by 75% as soon as they rotate out of type 2. You need a big bag of money to stay competitive in the T2 scene since every new set basically forces you to spend money on the $$$-cards (bitterblossom, mutavault).
It's actually not true that most of the decks in T1 have the Power 9. Very few run all the moxen, and it's probably the most skill-intensive format. You should try it out.
On August 13 2008 00:15 terr13 wrote: It's actually not true that most of the decks in T1 have the Power 9. Very few run all the moxen, and it's probably the most skill-intensive format. You should try it out.
Well maybe not all, but those that don't usually run other crazily expensive stuff. My group has a few Vintageplayers and most of their decks comprise of at least €1000 in cards and easily more. I'm not very familiar with the Vintage metagame but I've read a couple of tourneyreports and yes, it does indeed look like a fun format with alot of variety in decks, but right now it seems too expensive for me
On August 13 2008 09:46 CharlieMurphy wrote: So in T1 and Extended does everyone play 3-5 colored decks? I would assume with all the dual lands and shit you pretty much have to.
Duallands aren't in extended, extended only reaches to the onslaught block and beyond, duallands haven't been printed since revised! You do get fetchlands though. Assuming you meant Legacy instead of extended, duallands and fetchlands are pretty much staple there in many of the archetypes, even monocoloured decks often use fetchlands to thin out their deck (grab a fetchland, play it, grab another land from your library, 2 lands gone in 1 draw) but it depends on the deck entirely. Loam mostly keeps to 3 colours, whereas most goblindecks play a very light amount of black/green for added versatility on top of their red staple cards. Of course, if duals are available, they'll be the best choice if you play multiple colours because a: they're fetchable and b: they have no drawbacks (except being vulnerable to wasteland). Ravnica-block shocklands are a close second, they do everything the ordinary duals do except possibly hurt you if you need them right away.
Edit: but to answer your question, 3 colours is pretty much the maximum that's played in the eternal formats, since colourscrew is around the corner.
On August 14 2008 06:05 Stegosaur wrote: Luckily flash-hulk has been decapitated about 1.5 month ago
explain, because i thought the same thing but haven't been able to find any proof. is it that flash was errata'd to say that the creature never actually enters play if you don't pay its cost?
On August 14 2008 06:05 Stegosaur wrote: Luckily flash-hulk has been decapitated about 1.5 month ago
explain, because i thought the same thing but haven't been able to find any proof. is it that flash was errata'd to say that the creature never actually enters play if you don't pay its cost?
Flash got restricted in vintage (can only use 1 in a deck) and completely banned in legacy.
Yeah Stegosaur is right. They just restricted it, and banned it. The creature does get put into play, but if you don't pay its mana cost reduced by up to two, you have to sacrifice it immediately. So technically the creature is in play for a brief moment. So coupling flash with protein hulk, you can get an instant win pretty much with the right creatures, you can go about it a few ways. You can load your deck up with 0 cost artifact creatures, 4 Keepers of the Vault, and 1 Arcbound Ravager. Then you've won the game. You can also do the same with slivers as well. It's really a cheap card.
On August 16 2008 03:18 Krohm wrote: Yeah Stegosaur is right. They just restricted it, and banned it. The creature does get put into play, but if you don't pay its mana cost reduced by up to two, you have to sacrifice it immediately. So technically the creature is in play for a brief moment. So coupling flash with protein hulk, you can get an instant win pretty much with the right creatures, you can go about it a few ways. You can load your deck up with 0 cost artifact creatures, 4 Keepers of the Vault, and 1 Arcbound Ravager. Then you've won the game. You can also do the same with slivers as well. It's really a cheap card.
what the hell do you need a ravager for? just use these X cost artifact creatures (there are 8 in the deck and you only need like 4)
I suppose that would work as well. I actually never thought of just using those. I just used Arcbound, and sacrafice all the 0 cost creatures, and voila, you're dead. Odd chance you live and Arcbound is like an 10/10 creature
On August 16 2008 08:55 Krohm wrote: I suppose that would work as well. I actually never thought of just using those. I just used Arcbound, and sacrafice all the 0 cost creatures, and voila, you're dead. Odd chance you live and Arcbound is like an 10/10 creature
You can use whatever you want to sac those creatures to, not like it matters. I've mostly seen people do it with that 1 manacost zombie that can't block and gets +1/+1 counters for sacced creatures.
you get out the saccing zombie, revilark, and mogg fanatic. Isn't that all you need? Sac the mogg do damage- sac the revilark return the mogg and the body double, rinse repeat.
I need advice on a combo, if it actually works this way.
Say some player has out Painters Servant, along with a Grindstone. When he uses grindstone, does that mean I pretty much have to keep discarding cards until I hit a land? It just doesn't seem right to me.
On August 17 2008 15:18 CharlieMurphy wrote: I don't see how that combo works terr13,
you get out the saccing zombie, revilark, and mogg fanatic. Isn't that all you need? Sac the mogg do damage- sac the revilark return the mogg and the body double, rinse repeat.
It's a type 2 combodeck, it also uses venser to bounce everything. I like seismic assault swans more though! Anyway flashhulk was good because it often won in turn 1, and (if you built your deck for it) it could even win during your opponent's turn if you were on the draw (turn 0)
The Body snatcher is just in case you draw one of the pieces. Flash was good because it was a control deck that can win whenever. It rarely wins if it doesn't need to, and the turn 0 win is cool, but makes the deck weak. With the instant speed kill, it can wait until you have the win on the stack, and win in response.
The Painter's combo will deck you completely and you lose the next turn since you can't draw a card.
Lands get coloured as well so you'll lose your entire library Tip: Play Gaea's Blessing.
Also terr13 I know that the turn 0 variant of flashhulk is crap, but I'm just pointing out that no lameass T2 combo can beat the might that is (or was) flashhulk. It basically turned magic into a game of poker.
The only badass combodecks left right now are Ichorid and Solidarity/Spring Tide which is fine with me since there's nothing I hate more than losing to some gayass combo.
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