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On February 15 2008 15:44 rpf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2008 14:02 paper wrote:
as if branches wouldve saved you :3
wards just put one at the river at like 5 minutes and get 12 minutes of gank free laning :3 Good idea. I really need to get over my branch fixation. I like, refuse to buy bracers anymore. After watching a fuck load of higher level replays, I can see you can't just go tangoes/branches --> eaglehorn like I can in a pub. ;;
Haha bracers are called "core item" for a very good reason >_>
Maybe the only hero who can live with only branches are some insane str hero with much EHP. Like skeletonking or Rooftrellen, they can lasthit their way to radiance and survive only with tango and branches xD
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bracers aren't core itamz >__>;;??
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Bracers aren't really a core item for most heroes, but you're on the right track. Starting tangos is nice because they're cheap (cost ~17 after selling) and give you extra stats, important for health and damage (and early mana for some heroes). You want to get bracers if you can't survive, for the health, hopefully you'll know when to get Bracers before you start chain dying.
If you watch SK.Loda play Slardar it's pretty amplified. Sometimes he gets like, one bracer, other times he's gone up to four.
On the other hand there're plenty of games where you can easily get away with 0 Bracers.
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[14:21:34]Southlight says:
SLACKER
[14:21:47] Samael- Says:
 (((
A short-lived respite.
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On February 15 2008 18:50 evanthebouncy! wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2008 15:44 rpf wrote:On February 15 2008 14:02 paper wrote:
as if branches wouldve saved you :3
wards just put one at the river at like 5 minutes and get 12 minutes of gank free laning :3 Good idea. I really need to get over my branch fixation. I like, refuse to buy bracers anymore. After watching a fuck load of higher level replays, I can see you can't just go tangoes/branches --> eaglehorn like I can in a pub. ;; Haha bracers are called "core item" for a very good reason >_> Maybe the only hero who can live with only branches are some insane str hero with much EHP. Like skeletonking or Rooftrellen, they can lasthit their way to radiance and survive only with tango and branches xD
Let me explain my hang up:
For the longest time, I just did what everyone else did for starting items: two tangoes and two circlets. Then I started the DotA items thread, and I found that people told me branches were better, which was confirmed by, well, practically all of you.
My hang up was more with the progression of items. Do I go from branches to circlet items? Or do I skip them entirely? Does it depend on my hero? Does it depend on my opponents' heroes? Of course, it's the latter, but I think I lack the intuition to know when to build circlet items and when not to.
I'm actually quite bad at knowing what items to buy for who. Some heroes I can figure out quite well. Any hero that has a channeled spell that needs to go off, or needs to last the full duration is great with a BKB (sven, sand king, etc.)
I usually can build any agi hero just fine, but you'll still see me asking for help on how to build whatever hero I have in IHs.
Edit: Oh, I forgot to ask. If anyone has any really good replays, or can link me to some, I'd love it.
The ones I've been downloading seem pretty good, but I've gotten a couple of flukes (-ardm replays labeled as league matches?).
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On February 15 2008 19:15 Southlight wrote:
Bracers aren't really a core item for most heroes, but you're on the right track. Starting tangos is nice because they're cheap (cost ~17 after selling) and give you extra stats, important for health and damage (and early mana for some heroes). You want to get bracers if you can't survive, for the health, hopefully you'll know when to get Bracers before you start chain dying.
If you watch SK.Loda play Slardar it's pretty amplified. Sometimes he gets like, one bracer, other times he's gone up to four.
On the other hand there're plenty of games where you can easily get away with 0 Bracers.
See, that's where I have the problem. How do you decide when to get one bracer? Or more?
Correct me if I'm wrong: the point of going branches is to "feel out" the competition, and figure out what you need, don't need, etc.?
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I guess this isn't new to the most of you, but I found this one quite funsy:
I've been lately playing a lot as Terrorblade, farming the living shit out of the forest, only coming out ocassionally to Sunder to full hp as heal, then continue. You know, Radi -> farm as hell with illus -> skadi -> rape ez gg.
Recently, I had this crazy idea to make this mind-numbling method of gaming interesting: DAGON!
Hell, I can't tell you how I burst out laughing when I thought of this, and even better when it WORKED (well, against some SIG noobs, but who cares. Fun is FUN!)
I imagine their faces when I pop out of nowhere, sunder then WHACK DAGON PEW dead. Judging by the followup whining, it's quite frustrating to get instagibbed from 100% hp while happily farming a lane. L2ward.
This was so unrelated, but so funny that I had to get it off my chest 
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Go dagon into a lothar's. It's such bullshit. The lothar's helps you to get on top of them for the sunder.
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On February 15 2008 23:22 Southlight wrote:[14:21:34]Southlight says: SLACKER [14:21:47] Samael- Says: ((( A short-lived respite.
I connected to GGC to watch SK vs. Go) on GGTV! :'(
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So I get on GGC to play with you guys for once, nobody is on and instead I get PM'd by Kingsurf and TeG to host their MYM pride game. lollllll
Jesus these kids take forever to ban/pick.
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rpf... the truth is....
...
...
it doesn't really matter at all. Circlets, bracers, branches. Whatever. You can even skip them.
What you need is to know when you need what. If you can't figure out when to make one bracer or two, or skip them entirely... well, just try different shit. Usually, you'll want more bracers if your lane opponents have high damage nukes (or double stuns, whatever gankish shit). Get more regen if they don't.
But even if you get the "wrong" item, you're not fucked. Just play according to the situation, get the fuck out if you're in danger of getting instakilled, you'll still do ok. I'm betting you're not at the level where such subtle differences in item builds are a big factor. I know I'm not.
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So who won lawlz, and why'd they pick you? random or have previous encounters with them?
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On February 16 2008 02:02 BottleAbuser wrote:
rpf... the truth is....
...
...
it doesn't really matter at all. Circlets, bracers, branches. Whatever. You can even skip them.
What you need is to know when you need what. If you can't figure out when to make one bracer or two, or skip them entirely... well, just try different shit. Usually, you'll want more bracers if your lane opponents have high damage nukes (or double stuns, whatever gankish shit). Get more regen if they don't.
But even if you get the "wrong" item, you're not fucked. Just play according to the situation, get the fuck out if you're in danger of getting instakilled, you'll still do ok. I'm betting you're not at the level where such subtle differences in item builds are a big factor. I know I'm not.
Well, it's not so much that I "don't know" when to, or not to buy bracers, it's more that I'm just not confident with it. I just try to wing it. Some games I do okay. Some games I don't (see: me as VS vs. NA with a dagon). XD
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Honestly, for the most part item builds don't matter. Even if your item build isn't the most "optimal" or "efficient," at least in pub-heavy games they'll usually be functional (unless you're doing something absolutely retarded, like, uhh, blademail against 5 ranged heroes).
Most problems stem from positioning and timing. Blastard and I played a pubby game that became 4-3 due to a number of disconnects today. I was Beastmaster, he was Shadow Fiend, we had a pretty bad Rikimaru and a Juggernaut while the other team had Luna, Mirana and Zeus. Luna went Radiance first, powered by the two leavers. For me, it became fairly obvious- none of us could outfarm a Radiance-first Luna, and so personally it felt like the #1 goal of the game was to mess up Luna's farming or prevent him from farming at all. Of course, the only hero that can reliably compete with Luna, be it with ganking or by pushing, decided to farm. At a decidedly slow pace of course, because Jugg farms so much slower than Luna, particularly a Luna that went Radiance in 20 minutes. Suffice it to say the game was almost lost, due to an unkillable Luna (Radiance + Butterfly + Satanic + Assault Cuirass) because I couldn't coax the Juggernaut to come push or gank.
Likewise last night Pewpew was complaining "I knew I should have farmed all game" as opposed to helping ganks. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer - I wasn't there, and no one really contradicted his opinion. But I can say one thing- one of the reasons why I generally suck at carry heroes is because I'm not good with timing kills. I have trouble deciphering when I should be helping ganks, when I should be participating in a team battle and when I should be pure farming. That's why most of the time I play a farm-heavy character I disappear from the game for 30 minutes before popping up. This isn't the case even for Testie, who has a tendency to pop out for a few kills, pops up for important team battles and all that sort of stuff, despite his massive tendency to disappear for minutes on end farming hardcore.
That's why, especially early on, it's a better idea to play the same hero for a long time, to get a hang of the game's "feel." I played Clinkz for like 20 straight games, then Slardar for 10, before I felt comfortable -random for other heroes... in pub games with friends, before I played with TL. Then when I joined up in IH I picked the four heroes I'd felt comfortable with for like 20-30 games before feeling okay enough to experiment with other heroes... and now I'm back at where I usually pick a hero. Because I know I'm nowhere near good enough with the timing, knowing when I'm stronger than a certain hero, knowing where I should be to maximize exp/gold gain, etc. And that changes with different heroes, against different heroes. That's why I'm so damned inconsistent... sometimes I do nearly flawlessly, sometimes I'm 0-21 bad.
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On February 16 2008 02:02 Heen wrote:
So who won lawlz, and why'd they pick you? random or have previous encounters with them?
TeG won, but never hosting for those kids again. KS picked me because they were 3 hours late from the scheduled time and once I joined GGC KS-Xiaogui remembered I was a approved azeroth/tda host back in the day. The rest of them had no idea about me or my team. I've also hosted for VP /EMG before.
Took 30-35 minutes to do ban/picks.
Then 3 remakes cuz of KS dropping/GGC logins not working [ wtf? ]
Apparently you need to save for every single kill according to TeG.Razer.Bird
Not even a single thank you.
I wouldn't say this on DA forums simply because I'd get flamed for no reason and nobody knows me there [ well few do ] but those teams were either having a shitty day or were delayed on my connection. [ They didn't complain about delay ] The game was boring, and my team at it's peak could've easily demolished them. That's why I don't play league dota anymore, it's so stressful to lose against ' known ' teams that you could've beaten if one guy on your team didn't fuck up.
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On February 16 2008 03:07 Ack1027 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2008 02:02 Heen wrote:
So who won lawlz, and why'd they pick you? random or have previous encounters with them? TeG won, but never hosting for those kids again. KS picked me because they were 3 hours late from the scheduled time and once I joined GGC KS-Xiaogui remembered I was a approved azeroth/tda host back in the day. The rest of them had no idea about me or my team. I've also hosted for VP /EMG before. Took 30-35 minutes to do ban/picks. Then 3 remakes cuz of KS dropping/GGC logins not working [ wtf? ] Apparently you need to save for every single kill according to TeG.Razer.Bird Not even a single thank you. I wouldn't say this on DA forums simply because I'd get flamed for no reason and nobody knows me there [ well few do ] but those teams were either having a shitty day or were delayed on my connection. [ They didn't complain about delay ] The game was boring, and my team at it's peak could've easily demolished them. That's why I don't play league dota anymore, it's so stressful to lose against ' known ' teams that you could've beaten if one guy on your team didn't fuck up.
Shhh! :D
I hope you realized KS had a big scandal in MYM regarding possible maphack right? Same with TeG in previous tourneys.
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On February 16 2008 00:29 rpf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2008 19:15 Southlight wrote:
Bracers aren't really a core item for most heroes, but you're on the right track. Starting tangos is nice because they're cheap (cost ~17 after selling) and give you extra stats, important for health and damage (and early mana for some heroes). You want to get bracers if you can't survive, for the health, hopefully you'll know when to get Bracers before you start chain dying.
If you watch SK.Loda play Slardar it's pretty amplified. Sometimes he gets like, one bracer, other times he's gone up to four.
On the other hand there're plenty of games where you can easily get away with 0 Bracers. See, that's where I have the problem. How do you decide when to get one bracer? Or more? Correct me if I'm wrong: the point of going branches is to "feel out" the competition, and figure out what you need, don't need, etc.?
SK.Loda and Drayich for that matter I have noticed they tend to stack the stats items if they fall behind. Drayich's QoP against EMG in the previous pride is representative of that, 4 nulls.
Loda was probably doing the same thing, 2 circ 2 tangos is a popular start for a lot players, so its natural to progress into bracers/nulls/bands for a quicker +stats to push an advantage or make up for a disadvantage. After you play the game for a while, you realize based on lane and game situations what you should do. You guys are still pretty caught up on what you need for a given hero rather than what you need for a given hero at a given time in the game.
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i wont be on today
tis rockband day! o_o
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is awesome32269 Posts
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EPT
