EPTpersonally i like doing the math in my head cus im weird like that lol
[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 521
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
personally i like doing the math in my head cus im weird like that lol | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 09 2009 15:10 Zelniq wrote: even if you put the actual dmg done most people will still use their judgment / intuition anyway, and maybe in certain situations they may check the hp values personally i like doing the math in my head cus im weird like that lol Exactly, you can do the math and remember <4 values in your head and adjust them when hood comes into play if you are that hardcore about it. Color coding the skills to clearly state their attack and damage type isn't a bad idea though. | ||
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Naib
Hungary4844 Posts
On September 09 2009 14:28 JeeJee wrote: I agree, but the majority of spells are casted at heroes only even if they can be casted on creeps (barring shit like devour) in fact i'm having trouble thinking of a DD spell that's routinely casted on creeps over heroes (there is probably something like that, i'm just sleepy) Mystic snake? And arc lightning to an extent. About the discussion (so someone takes poor Heen's side too  )I believe that it wouldn't hurt, at least some people would improve faster. However, I'm astounded that some of you whine like spoiled little girls like "GIMMEH TEH EXACT NUMBARZ". If you think about all this stuff a bit critically and apply it into context, 99% of the things you whined about isn't exactly counter-intuitive. For example, Helix is physical damage because Axe is a mean bearded mofo who hits back if people hit him. So you wear armor. 25% spell dmg reduction vs heroes was in W3 since it came out, it's a given. Melee games have normal units and heroes, DotA has heroes and creeps. What's so hard about that? Tinker's laser says "precisely X dmg" You have to be mentally handicapped to not to understand that it cuts through the 25% resistance. Slardar's a muscular Naga royal guard who sprints around and shits on people. Of course he be no usin' da puny magic, and his stun is physical dmg. Etc. If that's hard to grasp, go and look shit up in the links that others posted, and learn it. Others have done the "hard" part of the work for you...if you're too lazy to find information, don't put the blame on the developer, imo. | ||
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bhp255
United States600 Posts
it's not like people who already know the stuff will be affected, just means that new ppl will discover it sooner... (i for one had no idea purification was pure dmg and slardar's stun is phys  )i agree there is a 'dota sense' that u develop, but new ppl can develop it sooner with said tooltips... and i mean, they're tooltips, it probably takes <5 seconds to type it in for each skill... might as well do it :O | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 10 2009 00:25 bhp255 wrote: i think its not a bad idea to have the exact dmg posted in the skill description... it's not like people who already know the stuff will be affected, just means that new ppl will discover it sooner... (i for one had no idea purification was pure dmg and slardar's stun is phys )i agree there is a 'dota sense' that u develop, but new ppl can develop it sooner with said tooltips... and i mean, they're tooltips, it probably takes <5 seconds to type it in for each skill... might as well do it :O Except that "exact" damage changes on the fly and it changes for creeps too for most skills. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On September 10 2009 01:07 Judicator wrote: Except that "exact" damage changes on the fly and it changes for creeps too for most skills. So put the standard non-viper/am/hood/cloak hero damage amount, and note the damage type in the tool tip. Why the fuck does it matter to you, you already know what the skill does. This isn't a change for you. This is a change for people who are learning the game and reading the skills for the first time. Seriously, what's the drawback of this change? The only possible thing I can see is you wouldn't like the 'look' of the tooltips, but if you know enough not to look at them, you won't be looking at them anyways. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Which is why I said earlier, it'll be better when if the skills are color-coded based on attack and damage type, so new players understand when their spells will do full damage, when their spells will do reduced damage, when their spells work against BKB, when their spells don't work against BKB, when their spells work against ghostwand/decrep-ed units and when their spells don't. That would help new players ALOT more than exact damage. That exact damage tool tip is misleading and quite useless as soon as any number of things hit play, which puts you back at square 1. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
That would help new players ALOT more than exact damage. Oh, I agree tremendously, but I don't think that putting the standard hero damage would be misleading if the rest of the items (specifically hood/cloak) are explained properly in their tooltips. Standard hero damage is just that: standard. Not exact damage, but standard hero damage. The second paragraph of my post actually wasn't directed at you, more towards Heen. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
Dota is still dota at the end of the day. Less talk more play. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On September 09 2009 22:56 Naib wrote: Mystic snake? And arc lightning to an extent. About the discussion (so someone takes poor Heen's side too )I believe that it wouldn't hurt, at least some people would improve faster. However, I'm astounded that some of you whine like spoiled little girls like "GIMMEH TEH EXACT NUMBARZ". If you think about all this stuff a bit critically and apply it into context, 99% of the things you whined about isn't exactly counter-intuitive. For example, Helix is physical damage because Axe is a mean bearded mofo who hits back if people hit him. So you wear armor. 25% spell dmg reduction vs heroes was in W3 since it came out, it's a given. Melee games have normal units and heroes, DotA has heroes and creeps. What's so hard about that? Tinker's laser says "precisely X dmg" You have to be mentally handicapped to not to understand that it cuts through the 25% resistance. Slardar's a muscular Naga royal guard who sprints around and shits on people. Of course he be no usin' da puny magic, and his stun is physical dmg. Etc. If that's hard to grasp, go and look shit up in the links that others posted, and learn it. Others have done the "hard" part of the work for you...if you're too lazy to find information, don't put the blame on the developer, imo. lol naib you do not want to argue that dota exceptions make sense, there are far more of them that make no sense whatsoever. you have no problem arguing slardar's physical, what about centaur's hoof? where does he conjure the magic from, he's a goddamn horse. making water appear out of nowhere seems slightly more magical to me than stamping your foot on the ground or techies' suicide, lesh's edict, viper's orb vs clinkz's orb, and there's probably more if you actually look it up edit: having actually looked it up because i'm bored as fuck, i pose the following questions to naib: + Show Spoiler + why is/are.. huskar's fire arrows magic while clinkz's fire arrows are physical? hookshot is magical while hook is physical? dazzle's poison is physical while viper's is magical? wild axes aren't physical? assassinate magical? all bash magical? anchor smash is magical? mines/suicide are mixed? pa's dagger is pure while spectre's dagger is magical? exorcism is physical? (not like it matters lolrape ghosts) ooh fatal bonds is pure.. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 10 2009 02:40 JeeJee wrote: ...what about centaur's hoof? where does he conjure the magic from, he's a goddamn horse lol this is hilarious, anyways, all of this confusion is accredited to blizzard to making their damage system so complicated and the map editor being so awesome, both good things | ||
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
Having a tooltip that says 225 (300)? Ok, it can't hurt but really is it worth it? It's as trivial as newbies not know hitting different parts of the body in CS does varying damage. - there isn't really a problem in the first place. I'm honestly not trying to be mean but this should only be a problem for newbs who aren't willing to learn, but rather find anything to blame for their fail. - I don't even think it would help newbs. I can just picture all kinds of scenarios if this were to be implemented for example, 'why didn't you use your skills? he would've died' 'sorry, I was adding 210 + 210 + 347.5 to make sure he would die. I didn't want to use all my skills on him for nothing' I mean, if we're talking about newbs here... this would only help them in 1v1 situations where they're on the offensive and want to tower dive. If they're newbs, I'd imagine they don't know how much dmg their teammate's combo does so they save their combo until the target's hp reaches the kill zone. The list goes on. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but there are newbs who have potential to get better and there are newbs who try to play the 'easy way' and have no hope of ever being noticeably good. Which is my philosophy behind why this change wouldn't change anything at all. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
i think colorcoding the skills just based on how they are in that link (i.e. if they're pure, magical, physical, mixed, etc) would help a lot, probably moreso than actual numbers (forget the avatar'd interactions, that shit's even more whack) | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On September 10 2009 03:10 ahswtini wrote: When avatared, you get stunned but take no damage from spells? yes and no. it's complicated and depends on the stuns you're talking about | ||
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bhp255
United States600 Posts
i just got caught up on the train of thought after reading so many posts i was actually referring to the color coding being nice (not only for noobs but even for players like me... i still dunno all the damage types for all skills )even if it's not color-coded, something like "affected by armor" or "Physical dmg" or even just a 'Ph' for phys, 'p' for pure and 'm' for magic would be quite useful imo | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 10 2009 03:10 ahswtini wrote: When avatared, you get stunned but take no damage from spells? Not necessarily, animations may occur, secondary effects may occur, and that only for the non-fully triggered ones | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
Having a tooltip that says 225 (300)? Ok, it can't hurt but really is it worth it? It's as trivial as newbies not know hitting different parts of the body in CS does varying damage. Its not so much for the flat 300 damage skills, but for stuff like lina's ult, other non 300 damage skills, and the exact standard damage on level 2-3 skills. These are important numbers when people learn how to lane; being able to see how much hp you need to survive through a combo in a dual lane, for instance, would help a lot of players not get assraped when they're learning the game. And as for is it worth it: What's the cost? 2 hours of putting 20 extra characters into a tooltip? You realize they rewrote the majority of tooltips a few versions back, right? If icefrog is going to do things like completely revamp the shop system (which no one who plays really needed), then why wouldn't they clarify basic shit about the heros you're using? When avatared, you get stunned but take no damage from spells? Its more retarded than that. Overgrowth will root you through avatar, but using avatar while rooted will dispel the effect. There are plenty of retarded effects like that. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 10 2009 03:12 bhp255 wrote: oops, i didnt mean to put "exact numbers" i just got caught up on the train of thought after reading so many posts i was actually referring to the color coding being nice (not only for noobs but even for players like me... i still dunno all the damage types for all skills )even if it's not color-coded, something like "affected by armor" or "Physical dmg" or even just a 'Ph' for phys, 'p' for pure and 'm' for magic would be quite useful imo Hell I think the one they used for that big list of every hero's spell is very simple and clean. | ||
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