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On December 18 2023 17:44 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2023 17:31 tili wrote:On December 17 2023 02:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On December 14 2023 00:24 Creager wrote:
Sorry, as much as Frostgiant has been fondling the RTS community's balls and as much I'd like to support them, I'm simply not pre-ordering anything anymore, that ship has sailed a long time ago.
In addition to that I'd agree with people that already pointed out how vague the supporter tiers are, I also don't want to support the f2p business model in general, give me a complete game I can churn out $60-70 bucks for and leave me alone with all the FOMO and GaaS stuff. To add to your post. THeir biggest financial backer is complete and total scum. No big surprise their first revenue generating move is ethically ambiguous while Tim Morten tells us he is our "friend". Kakao rips off working class Koreans by the thousands every single day. They have been entangled in numerous scams for years. All they do is apologize then move on to fucking over more people. With "friends" like Tim Morten... I don't need any enemies. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-koreas-kakao-appoints-new-ceo-amid-scrutiny-tech-company-2023-12-13/When this house of cards goes sideways I don't want to hear from all the "shocked and stunned" employees. Everyone knows Kakao is scum. This feels very cynical and speculative re: frost giant. Kakao is a huge company, there are scandals but idk if they are ‘scum’ or if there is any evidence they have anything to do with this kickstarter. I think we’re not used to seeing a new studio attempt to make a triple A rts from the ground up, and a lot of this is growing pains. We’ve seen 0 indication of bad faith, other than clearly figuring figuring out, and needing to work on design elements. They’re trying to adjust to new ways of monetizing esports, I also prefer boxed games, but think it’s smart/correct that they’re trying to figure out how to make an rts competitive and profitable in this new world of f2p micro transactions. It seems to me the team is great and is working hard… I’m a fan of the boxed method. Well, usually a digital purchase these days as cool boxes aren’t really a thing anymore. I think that 100% would be fine with the existing RTS veterans, and I think Stormgate would be a lock to sell pretty well. I mean they’ve already made a million+ on Kickstarter alone, many of whom I imagine are throwing down just to get on the beta. I just don’t see my kiddo saving his pocket money to throw down retail price on a game he’d probably dig, but only because his old man introduced him to StarCraft, and his mates are even less likely to because few of their parents are big RTS nerds. So I think to attract a sizeable new audience it’s really a road they have to go down, I guess the tricky part is monetising with that model as RTS isn’t as neat a fit for it as a Fortnite
This feels correct for me. SG will need to figure out how to make RTS compatible with micro-transactions (idk, maybe it’s co-op, story mode, or the 3v3 with addons)… old school ‘box’ gamers don’t make up enough of the gaming population anymore. And it’s not like there is a wildly popular rts game people will transition from. If successful, these will mostly be new-ish rts fans/players
I agree with ppl saying this seems less cool than SC2… hopefully they’ll begin focusing on those elements now that a lot of the tech infrastructure seems to more-or-less be there.
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Poland3748 Posts
On December 19 2023 04:23 tili wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2023 17:44 WombaT wrote:On December 18 2023 17:31 tili wrote:On December 17 2023 02:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On December 14 2023 00:24 Creager wrote:
Sorry, as much as Frostgiant has been fondling the RTS community's balls and as much I'd like to support them, I'm simply not pre-ordering anything anymore, that ship has sailed a long time ago.
In addition to that I'd agree with people that already pointed out how vague the supporter tiers are, I also don't want to support the f2p business model in general, give me a complete game I can churn out $60-70 bucks for and leave me alone with all the FOMO and GaaS stuff. To add to your post. THeir biggest financial backer is complete and total scum. No big surprise their first revenue generating move is ethically ambiguous while Tim Morten tells us he is our "friend". Kakao rips off working class Koreans by the thousands every single day. They have been entangled in numerous scams for years. All they do is apologize then move on to fucking over more people. With "friends" like Tim Morten... I don't need any enemies. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-koreas-kakao-appoints-new-ceo-amid-scrutiny-tech-company-2023-12-13/When this house of cards goes sideways I don't want to hear from all the "shocked and stunned" employees. Everyone knows Kakao is scum. This feels very cynical and speculative re: frost giant. Kakao is a huge company, there are scandals but idk if they are ‘scum’ or if there is any evidence they have anything to do with this kickstarter. I think we’re not used to seeing a new studio attempt to make a triple A rts from the ground up, and a lot of this is growing pains. We’ve seen 0 indication of bad faith, other than clearly figuring figuring out, and needing to work on design elements. They’re trying to adjust to new ways of monetizing esports, I also prefer boxed games, but think it’s smart/correct that they’re trying to figure out how to make an rts competitive and profitable in this new world of f2p micro transactions. It seems to me the team is great and is working hard… I’m a fan of the boxed method. Well, usually a digital purchase these days as cool boxes aren’t really a thing anymore. I think that 100% would be fine with the existing RTS veterans, and I think Stormgate would be a lock to sell pretty well. I mean they’ve already made a million+ on Kickstarter alone, many of whom I imagine are throwing down just to get on the beta. I just don’t see my kiddo saving his pocket money to throw down retail price on a game he’d probably dig, but only because his old man introduced him to StarCraft, and his mates are even less likely to because few of their parents are big RTS nerds. So I think to attract a sizeable new audience it’s really a road they have to go down, I guess the tricky part is monetising with that model as RTS isn’t as neat a fit for it as a Fortnite This feels correct for me. SG will need to figure out how to make RTS compatible with micro-transactions (idk, maybe it’s co-op, story mode, or the 3v3 with addons)… old school ‘box’ gamers don’t make up enough of the gaming population anymore. And it’s not like there is a wildly popular rts game people will transition from. If successful, these will mostly be new-ish rts fans/players I agree with ppl saying this seems less cool than SC2… hopefully they’ll begin focusing on those elements now that a lot of the tech infrastructure seems to more-or-less be there.
What if it was possible to skin your starting base area and put these under microtransactions?
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Why is the minimap on the bottom right side
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On December 26 2023 07:10 MineraIs wrote:
Why is the minimap on the bottom right side
That's how it is in warcraft
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Northern Ireland25322 Posts
On December 26 2023 18:59 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2023 07:10 MineraIs wrote:
Why is the minimap on the bottom right side That's how it is in warcraft
It wasn’t in WC3 from what I remember?
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You can switch the mini-map to either side. You can also make your UI smaller or bigger (% based).
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Northern Ireland25322 Posts
On December 27 2023 05:08 SoleSteeler wrote:
You can switch the mini-map to either side. You can also make your UI smaller or bigger (% based).
That’s quite a nice touch, first I heard of that but I definitely approve
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Bot edit.
User was banned for this post.
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On December 27 2023 05:08 SoleSteeler wrote:
You can switch the mini-map to either side. You can also make your UI smaller or bigger (% based).
Though the UI isn't completely finished, this was already in the game. Saw it in Lowko's video I believe
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This doesn't look good to me at all. Just the worst elements of wc3 and sc2 combined. why can't devs go back to broodwar and wc2 for inspiration?
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On January 10 2024 20:44 Marl wrote:
This doesn't look good to me at all. Just the worst elements of wc3 and sc2 combined. why can't devs go back to broodwar and wc2 for inspiration?
Because there are 3 people alive who still play WC2, and BW only really exists in Korea. That's not how you bring in new audiences
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On January 10 2024 20:44 Marl wrote:
This doesn't look good to me at all. Just the worst elements of wc3 and sc2 combined. why can't devs go back to broodwar and wc2 for inspiration?
Isn't WC2 horribly imbalanced towards Orc? Doesn't seem like a great place for inspiration!
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Northern Ireland25322 Posts
On January 11 2024 00:54 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2024 20:44 Marl wrote:
This doesn't look good to me at all. Just the worst elements of wc3 and sc2 combined. why can't devs go back to broodwar and wc2 for inspiration? Because there are 3 people alive who still play WC2, and BW only really exists in Korea. That's not how you bring in new audiences
Yeah if you really want to bring in new folks you’ve got to go truly back to the classics, WC1 at least, although ideally back to Dune
If RTS is to make a comeback it’s through antiquation and hipster caché, take a leaf out of the resurgence of vinyl records.
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On January 11 2024 00:54 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2024 20:44 Marl wrote:
This doesn't look good to me at all. Just the worst elements of wc3 and sc2 combined. why can't devs go back to broodwar and wc2 for inspiration? Because there are 3 people alive who still play WC2, and BW only really exists in Korea. That's not how you bring in new audiences
If we're going by this logic Elden Ring would have been a disaster instead of game of the year. It's almost as if certain design principles could be adopted while still creating a more modern UX to attract and appeal to new(er) players.
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Northern Ireland25322 Posts
On January 14 2024 20:16 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2024 00:54 Cricketer12 wrote:On January 10 2024 20:44 Marl wrote:
This doesn't look good to me at all. Just the worst elements of wc3 and sc2 combined. why can't devs go back to broodwar and wc2 for inspiration? Because there are 3 people alive who still play WC2, and BW only really exists in Korea. That's not how you bring in new audiences If we're going by this logic Elden Ring would have been a disaster instead of game of the year. It's almost as if certain design principles could be adopted while still creating a more modern UX to attract and appeal to new(er) players.
It’s a niche game, only the niche is so big that it can still be incredibly successful. Same with Baldur’s Gate 3
It’s really an iterative game on a formula that’s proved successful with its core audience, which ultimately seems to be the approach to Stormgate too
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Keep in mind Frost Giant brags about having no marketing department.
On January 11 2024 07:21 WombaT wrote:
Yeah if you really want to bring in new folks you’ve got to go truly back to the classics, WC1 at least, although ideally back to Dune
If RTS is to make a comeback it’s through antiquation and hipster caché, take a leaf out of the resurgence of vinyl records.
On January 11 2024 00:54 Cricketer12 wrote:
Because there are 3 people alive who still play WC2, and BW only really exists in Korea. That's not how you bring in new audiences
That is also not how you pay off your loans you got from the venture capitalists who want their money back plus rising interest levels plus profit. 
WC2 has an active competitive scene. BW is played in Toronto PC Bangs by koreans, filipinos, chinese, japanese and euros. Brood War "exists" in Canada. I can't speak for the rest of the world though. Evidently you can.
I find some of the competitive scenes of games abandoned by publishers and developers to be super fun. Check out the communities around Red Alert 3, C&C 3, EA NHL '94, Super Tecmo Bowl, Fire Pro Wrestling World. Its not hipster... its fun.. and other than Fire Pro its free.
I think its great that these people are having a good time and it costs them $0. This forces EA to make better hockey games.. it forces 2K to make better wrestling games.. and it forces RTS developers to make better RTS games. It forces publishers to offer Free To Play options.
All that matters is how much fun it is... not how old the game is.
"because what really matters is the players and what really matters is the game", Samwise Didier 2015.
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EPT
