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Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 156

Forum Index > General Games
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gTank
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria2584 Posts
August 12 2024 08:46 GMT
#3101
The engine might be good, the pathing is what makes these units stuck. Difference but they can surely fix the pathing easier than the engine.
One crossed wire, one wayward pinch of potassium chlorate, one errant twitch...and kablooie!
sophisticated
Profile Joined October 2021
60 Posts
August 12 2024 10:29 GMT
#3102
On August 12 2024 12:25 Husyelt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2024 05:02 sophisticated wrote:
Had I received 40M$ in funding, I would have simply produced and released a 40M$ game

wait they got 40 million in funding? thats insane for a fundraiser. im all for paying artists and programmers what they deserve but there was some serious errors here in judgment or direction. I'm fairly confident I could make an entire RTS for a 1-2 million bucks with just a couple other Devs if we just focused on PvP and saved the story for down the line.

Just start with 2 races, prototype that shit out while an artist or two work on the visual style. after you have a working prototype go full in with the rest of the money on art and very basic multiplayer functionality. Unreal Engine 5 is literally free to use until you make your first million in revenue. Make the basic game $20 with PvP ladder and custom only, and then an expansion pack with a new race and maybe a simple story for another $20.


Yeah, I mostly agree, though I've never done gamedev before. Some googling suggest that they've got around 40-50 people working on this thing. Cofounder Tim Morten said in a venturebeat interview from summer 2023 that "we're closing in on 50 full-time and another 20 contractors. It's roughly the same size as the Starcraft II team when I was on it."
Seems insanse to me as well (what you could do with 40mil$!), though I guess that does involve running the entire company and all the marketing/community-management stuff too. From what I've read in some interview, they are trying to compete with AAA, which is certainly a decision one can make...
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States673 Posts
August 12 2024 13:31 GMT
#3103
On August 12 2024 19:29 sophisticated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2024 12:25 Husyelt wrote:
On August 12 2024 05:02 sophisticated wrote:
Had I received 40M$ in funding, I would have simply produced and released a 40M$ game

wait they got 40 million in funding? thats insane for a fundraiser. im all for paying artists and programmers what they deserve but there was some serious errors here in judgment or direction. I'm fairly confident I could make an entire RTS for a 1-2 million bucks with just a couple other Devs if we just focused on PvP and saved the story for down the line.

Just start with 2 races, prototype that shit out while an artist or two work on the visual style. after you have a working prototype go full in with the rest of the money on art and very basic multiplayer functionality. Unreal Engine 5 is literally free to use until you make your first million in revenue. Make the basic game $20 with PvP ladder and custom only, and then an expansion pack with a new race and maybe a simple story for another $20.


Yeah, I mostly agree, though I've never done gamedev before. Some googling suggest that they've got around 40-50 people working on this thing. Cofounder Tim Morten said in a venturebeat interview from summer 2023 that "we're closing in on 50 full-time and another 20 contractors. It's roughly the same size as the Starcraft II team when I was on it."
Seems insanse to me as well (what you could do with 40mil$!), though I guess that does involve running the entire company and all the marketing/community-management stuff too. From what I've read in some interview, they are trying to compete with AAA, which is certainly a decision one can make...



Damn bro, that's awesome you were on the SC2 team. How was that experience? :D That's mad dream lived.
Mostly a troll, bi-polar by design, occasionally brain malfunction. Please forgive me. xD
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3400 Posts
August 12 2024 13:34 GMT
#3104
On August 12 2024 22:31 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2024 19:29 sophisticated wrote:
On August 12 2024 12:25 Husyelt wrote:
On August 12 2024 05:02 sophisticated wrote:
Had I received 40M$ in funding, I would have simply produced and released a 40M$ game

wait they got 40 million in funding? thats insane for a fundraiser. im all for paying artists and programmers what they deserve but there was some serious errors here in judgment or direction. I'm fairly confident I could make an entire RTS for a 1-2 million bucks with just a couple other Devs if we just focused on PvP and saved the story for down the line.

Just start with 2 races, prototype that shit out while an artist or two work on the visual style. after you have a working prototype go full in with the rest of the money on art and very basic multiplayer functionality. Unreal Engine 5 is literally free to use until you make your first million in revenue. Make the basic game $20 with PvP ladder and custom only, and then an expansion pack with a new race and maybe a simple story for another $20.


Yeah, I mostly agree, though I've never done gamedev before. Some googling suggest that they've got around 40-50 people working on this thing. Cofounder Tim Morten said in a venturebeat interview from summer 2023 that "we're closing in on 50 full-time and another 20 contractors. It's roughly the same size as the Starcraft II team when I was on it."
Seems insanse to me as well (what you could do with 40mil$!), though I guess that does involve running the entire company and all the marketing/community-management stuff too. From what I've read in some interview, they are trying to compete with AAA, which is certainly a decision one can make...



Damn bro, that's awesome you were on the SC2 team. How was that experience? :D That's mad dream lived.


I dont think you read that right, he was quoting Tim Morten as saying it
Horang2 fan
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8305 Posts
August 12 2024 14:53 GMT
#3105
How would you guys rank the co op commanders currently? I’m having trouble deciding between Maloc and Blockade
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
Agh
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1000 Posts
August 12 2024 18:17 GMT
#3106
On August 12 2024 19:29 sophisticated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2024 12:25 Husyelt wrote:
On August 12 2024 05:02 sophisticated wrote:
Had I received 40M$ in funding, I would have simply produced and released a 40M$ game

wait they got 40 million in funding? thats insane for a fundraiser. im all for paying artists and programmers what they deserve but there was some serious errors here in judgment or direction. I'm fairly confident I could make an entire RTS for a 1-2 million bucks with just a couple other Devs if we just focused on PvP and saved the story for down the line.

Just start with 2 races, prototype that shit out while an artist or two work on the visual style. after you have a working prototype go full in with the rest of the money on art and very basic multiplayer functionality. Unreal Engine 5 is literally free to use until you make your first million in revenue. Make the basic game $20 with PvP ladder and custom only, and then an expansion pack with a new race and maybe a simple story for another $20.


Yeah, I mostly agree, though I've never done gamedev before. Some googling suggest that they've got around 40-50 people working on this thing. Cofounder Tim Morten said in a venturebeat interview from summer 2023 that "we're closing in on 50 full-time and another 20 contractors. It's roughly the same size as the Starcraft II team when I was on it."
Seems insanse to me as well (what you could do with 40mil$!), though I guess that does involve running the entire company and all the marketing/community-management stuff too. From what I've read in some interview, they are trying to compete with AAA, which is certainly a decision one can make...


$40 mil can vanish in a flash. 20% of that can be gone in a year just from salaries.

Pay to play is death unless you're somebody like blizzard and can keep getting away with it (still flabbergasted that there are people that bought d4).

I think hard forcing the campaign when the basic game fundamentals have so much work to be done is a mistake. Going to run into the issue where some unit or mechanic is obsolete and there will be a severe disconnect going from that to multi-player.

I don't care about art and aesthetic whatsoever but I think for the most part every game post sc2 has looked absolutely awful. Dota2,d4,aoe4,reforged,etc all look like some toddler water color painting to me. Battle Aces is the only one to have distinct visuals where you can easily identify everything at a glance.

There's just so much wrong with the game's state and design for being an actually competitive title that it puts me off, even if it is fun for a handful of games.
Maps really need an overhaul. We're in the steppes of war/metalocalypse era and with the tug of war being all over the place.

I may appear to be an emotionless sarcastic pos, but just like an onion when you pull off more and more layers you find the exact same thing everytime and you start crying
gTank
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria2584 Posts
August 12 2024 18:31 GMT
#3107
The point is, everyone knows about steppes of war and can even draw it out of memory because the maps feel cool and special in sc2, in SG the maps are kinda meh.
One crossed wire, one wayward pinch of potassium chlorate, one errant twitch...and kablooie!
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18089 Posts
August 12 2024 19:27 GMT
#3108
On August 13 2024 03:31 gTank wrote:
The point is, everyone knows about steppes of war and can even draw it out of memory because the maps feel cool and special in sc2, in SG the maps are kinda meh.

Well, steppes of war is a really awful example. Steppes of war is pretty much a main base ramp down and then a ramp up into your opponent's base. It was a really truly awful map and is remembered for that. If stormgate comes out of the box with better maps than steppes of war, that is a good thing!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25875 Posts
August 12 2024 19:36 GMT
#3109
On August 13 2024 03:17 Agh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2024 19:29 sophisticated wrote:
On August 12 2024 12:25 Husyelt wrote:
On August 12 2024 05:02 sophisticated wrote:
Had I received 40M$ in funding, I would have simply produced and released a 40M$ game

wait they got 40 million in funding? thats insane for a fundraiser. im all for paying artists and programmers what they deserve but there was some serious errors here in judgment or direction. I'm fairly confident I could make an entire RTS for a 1-2 million bucks with just a couple other Devs if we just focused on PvP and saved the story for down the line.

Just start with 2 races, prototype that shit out while an artist or two work on the visual style. after you have a working prototype go full in with the rest of the money on art and very basic multiplayer functionality. Unreal Engine 5 is literally free to use until you make your first million in revenue. Make the basic game $20 with PvP ladder and custom only, and then an expansion pack with a new race and maybe a simple story for another $20.


Yeah, I mostly agree, though I've never done gamedev before. Some googling suggest that they've got around 40-50 people working on this thing. Cofounder Tim Morten said in a venturebeat interview from summer 2023 that "we're closing in on 50 full-time and another 20 contractors. It's roughly the same size as the Starcraft II team when I was on it."
Seems insanse to me as well (what you could do with 40mil$!), though I guess that does involve running the entire company and all the marketing/community-management stuff too. From what I've read in some interview, they are trying to compete with AAA, which is certainly a decision one can make...


$40 mil can vanish in a flash. 20% of that can be gone in a year just from salaries.

Pay to play is death unless you're somebody like blizzard and can keep getting away with it (still flabbergasted that there are people that bought d4).

I think hard forcing the campaign when the basic game fundamentals have so much work to be done is a mistake. Going to run into the issue where some unit or mechanic is obsolete and there will be a severe disconnect going from that to multi-player.

I don't care about art and aesthetic whatsoever but I think for the most part every game post sc2 has looked absolutely awful. Dota2,d4,aoe4,reforged,etc all look like some toddler water color painting to me. Battle Aces is the only one to have distinct visuals where you can easily identify everything at a glance.

There's just so much wrong with the game's state and design for being an actually competitive title that it puts me off, even if it is fun for a handful of games.
Maps really need an overhaul. We're in the steppes of war/metalocalypse era and with the tug of war being all over the place.


I guess maps are quite hard. Unlike most other genres so much of how the game plays is developed by a hive mind figuring things out, and no designer or playtest team, no matter how large is going to be able to predict what the players will figure out in terms of optimal play.

Warcraft 3 had a handful of stinkers, and oddly for a game who spawned an even bigger game through a vibrant custom map scene, it largely just stuck with Blizzard maps forever. Even maps that were clearly built as team game maps but ended up as tournament 1v1 maps.

Stinkers aside one thing I really do appreciate from WC3 is that the maps are actually different, and ask different questions, even if balance isn’t always optimal. SC2 it’s the opposite where they’re pretty balanced but once ‘the formula’ was figured out I could return now after a giant hiatus and maps are still gonna play much the same.

I’ve said it forever, I think the logical next step is a slight change in approach. I see SG doing this as well just as SC2 does. Abandon trying to make every map be good for every matchup, and conforming to a particular style to force certain types of games.

Have a solid core of XvX battlefields, absolutely. But it’s a shackle that prevents building really interesting, different maps around interactions that only certain factions share.

You can both improve variety, without sacrificing balance as certain maps would only be rolled in certain matchups.

Obviously it’s very early days so we’re gonna see that reflected in the maps, but I do hope that kinda approach is adopted in one way or another.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
MegaBuster
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
167 Posts
August 12 2024 21:14 GMT
#3110
does anyone have an email contact to remind Frost Giant that they are releasing a game tomorrow?
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25875 Posts
August 12 2024 21:31 GMT
#3111
On August 13 2024 06:14 MegaBuster wrote:
does anyone have an email contact to remind Frost Giant that they are releasing a game tomorrow?

Haha I must say I laughed, welcome back
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
gingerfluffmuffnr2
Profile Joined February 2024
107 Posts
August 12 2024 21:39 GMT
#3112
On August 13 2024 06:14 MegaBuster wrote:
does anyone have an email contact to remind Frost Giant that they are releasing a game tomorrow?

You cant ninja edit an email, so they dont use it.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33457 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-12 21:53:45
August 12 2024 21:52 GMT
#3113
Another offline showmatch at the Esports World Cup



AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
CicadaSC
Profile Joined January 2018
United States1808 Posts
August 13 2024 00:33 GMT
#3114
On August 13 2024 06:52 Waxangel wrote:
Another offline showmatch at the Esports World Cup

https://twitter.com/PlayStormgate/status/1823106019569893388


This is hype, showmatch makes me more excited hopefully people play the races they actually main and not just cheese every game with celestials 😅.
Remember that we all come from a place of passion!!
Hibikidaye
Profile Joined August 2024
2 Posts
August 13 2024 01:07 GMT
#3115
Can't say I've ever seen this many invitationals and showmatches for a game that isn't even out yet.
Husyelt
Profile Blog Joined May 2020
United States837 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-08-13 03:57:08
August 13 2024 02:59 GMT
#3116
On August 12 2024 15:44 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2024 13:14 Husyelt wrote:
On August 12 2024 13:01 WombaT wrote:
On August 12 2024 12:25 Husyelt wrote:
On August 12 2024 05:02 sophisticated wrote:
Had I received 40M$ in funding, I would have simply produced and released a 40M$ game

wait they got 40 million in funding? thats insane for a fundraiser. im all for paying artists and programmers what they deserve but there was some serious errors here in judgment or direction. I'm fairly confident I could make an entire RTS for a 1-2 million bucks with just a couple other Devs if we just focused on PvP and saved the story for down the line.

Just start with 2 races, prototype that shit out while an artist or two work on the visual style. after you have a working prototype go full in with the rest of the money on art and very basic multiplayer functionality. Unreal Engine 5 is literally free to use until you make your first million in revenue. Make the basic game $20 with PvP ladder and custom only, and then an expansion pack with a new race and maybe a simple story for another $20.

They got most of their funding from standard investment and not via fundraising from Kickstarter etc.

It still needs some work by most accounts, but they have by and large made a very, very solid base engine. I imagine that cost a fair chunk of their budget.

It may be that even if they fail to hit their own ambitions, they may license that out which would be great for the genre. For all my criticism I still hope the project succeeds in one way or another, but that may be a silver lining of sorts.

It’s a hell of a lot easier to piss out a shooter or action-adventure or well, lots of types of games because you have engines like UE good to go pretty much out the box.

RTS you just don’t have that to my knowledge. Every dev seems to do their own thing, and usually on a budget.

Hence why you’ve got a ton of RTS games with cool aesthetics, genuinely interesting ideas and design decisions, almost invariably all crippled to some degree by the control and pathfinding.

Ok, crippled is stretching it, but I really feel the ‘man this is cool, this game would kick fucking ass if it controlled half as well as SC2’ all too often.

I think it’s maybe, in fact almost definitely a hugely underdiscussed facet in the age-old ‘why has RTS declined?’ question.

Tastes may vary, some prefer older games regardless (WC3 may be my bae) but I genuinely can’t think of another genre whose peak in terms of those technical aspects was reached over 14 years ago, and it’s not even that close.





oh boy, a friend turned enemy

you'll see my lawyers tomorrow. and best you be sure, they wont take kindly to 40 fucking million dollars going into an RTS that looks like a mobile phone app. but like if you like that, thats cool, i personally dont accept a revolution with such weak results

Good luck suing somebody with no tangible assets bar a 20K+ post TL account, that’s gotta be worth something right?!

I am really differentiating between Stormgate the game as it is now, and the Frostplay engine underpinning it. The game may never get there, but the engine is already pretty damn good, and if they license it at a reasonable price, perhaps the RTS games that come after may be the Great Leap Forward.

It still pains me to this day that a whole generation of younger gamers are familiar with the Unreal Engine, but not the games it came from, and it looks like will be some time returning


I have heard it does feel very responsive to play which really is the most important aspect. I just cant forgive the anti visual art style they went for. Dont you mean Snowplay as their complimentary engine (probably a custom plugin)? My lawyers told me I have no case btw, but they should have sent you a very angry and direct complaint by now
You're getting cynical and that won't do I'd throw the rose tint back on the exploded view
Agh
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1000 Posts
August 13 2024 04:19 GMT
#3117
On August 13 2024 04:36 WombaT wrote:
I guess maps are quite hard. Unlike most other genres so much of how the game plays is developed by a hive mind figuring things out, and no designer or playtest team, no matter how large is going to be able to predict what the players will figure out in terms of optimal play.

Warcraft 3 had a handful of stinkers, and oddly for a game who spawned an even bigger game through a vibrant custom map scene, it largely just stuck with Blizzard maps forever. Even maps that were clearly built as team game maps but ended up as tournament 1v1 maps.

Stinkers aside one thing I really do appreciate from WC3 is that the maps are actually different, and ask different questions, even if balance isn’t always optimal. SC2 it’s the opposite where they’re pretty balanced but once ‘the formula’ was figured out I could return now after a giant hiatus and maps are still gonna play much the same.

I’ve said it forever, I think the logical next step is a slight change in approach. I see SG doing this as well just as SC2 does. Abandon trying to make every map be good for every matchup, and conforming to a particular style to force certain types of games.

Have a solid core of XvX battlefields, absolutely. But it’s a shackle that prevents building really interesting, different maps around interactions that only certain factions share.

You can both improve variety, without sacrificing balance as certain maps would only be rolled in certain matchups.

Obviously it’s very early days so we’re gonna see that reflected in the maps, but I do hope that kinda approach is adopted in one way or another.


I don't think the current flow chart is going to be contested without intervention.
Most maps are functioning in a way similar to how Orc vs UD was several years ago (before and one of the many reasons ritual dagger was added). Basically being able to have an outright superior force with no way to contest, and once that is established you either win by killing them or reverse creeping... which here just translates to printing money and winning even harder.

Of course this isn't strictly a maps issue as the game is still in its competitive infancy but there are a ton of visible fundamental flaws with certain ones. Creeping should always give you more income short term, but there should be some type of limitation or cascading diminishing returns to prevent the cases where you can instantly snowball a 1k resource advantage.

I'm definitely for map variety, but now would be the time to be much more conservative approach to really dial in the limits of making the matchups feel fluid and fair. I'd like to see maybe at least double the size of current maps with much less vastly wide open portions.
I may appear to be an emotionless sarcastic pos, but just like an onion when you pull off more and more layers you find the exact same thing everytime and you start crying
_Spartak_
Profile Joined October 2013
Turkey419 Posts
August 13 2024 06:34 GMT
#3118
On August 13 2024 10:07 Hibikidaye wrote:
Can't say I've ever seen this many invitationals and showmatches for a game that isn't even out yet.

You haven't seen SC2 beta then 😄
gTank
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria2584 Posts
August 13 2024 06:59 GMT
#3119
On August 13 2024 10:07 Hibikidaye wrote:
Can't say I've ever seen this many invitationals and showmatches for a game that isn't even out yet.


Wasnt the first Dota2 International at gamescom a closed beta only tournament?
One crossed wire, one wayward pinch of potassium chlorate, one errant twitch...and kablooie!
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6981 Posts
August 13 2024 07:15 GMT
#3120
On August 13 2024 06:52 Waxangel wrote:
Another offline showmatch at the Esports World Cup

https://twitter.com/PlayStormgate/status/1823106019569893388



Wow thats nice!

Also the BIGGEST FFFFING SC2 tournament EVAR (money wise ) is gonna start in less than 2 days HYPUUU
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
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