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On May 02 2024 07:31 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2024 19:48 gTank wrote:
Yes, I think its not a great stage right now, also new race too.
If I compare it to Godsworn (made by two people!) it looks so bland and low quality. I had a look at this game after I reading your post and it takes the same direction stylistically as Stormgate but is somehow far more detailed and sophisticated, even though it's only made by 2 people? Well... Obviously I can't say much about the gameplay of Godsworn but it look like what I would imagine a Warcraft 4 to look like. Show nested quote +On May 02 2024 06:18 Hider wrote:On May 02 2024 05:28 nforce wrote:
I'm not the one to pay for a pre-order on a free to play game but I enjoyed watching YT vids and Twitch streams of the game and was under the impression that this Frigate patch would be available to streamers/YT too so it was a bit of a disappointment to learn that it was fully NDAd.
I understand and feel for them, but in terms of marketing and generating hype, especially off of a something that looked like quite a successful Steam Fest/beta phase, they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. Especially with 2024-5 being so RTS heavy. We'll wait and see, meanwhile there's bronze protoss cheese for me to rage to. I wonder what the release schedule is? Is Immortals gates of pyre gonna release this year? They been in development for longer than Stormgate and must also be running out of funds (though I assume they are vastly more responsible than Frostgiant). Zerospace I think first will release next year? David Kim's new game probably closed beta towards the end of the year? Release 2025? You mean the release schedule for Stormgate? I'm not really sure I understand your post. Could you clarify?
No for future RTS games.
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On May 02 2024 06:18 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2024 05:28 nforce wrote:
I'm not the one to pay for a pre-order on a free to play game but I enjoyed watching YT vids and Twitch streams of the game and was under the impression that this Frigate patch would be available to streamers/YT too so it was a bit of a disappointment to learn that it was fully NDAd.
I understand and feel for them, but in terms of marketing and generating hype, especially off of a something that looked like quite a successful Steam Fest/beta phase, they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. Especially with 2024-5 being so RTS heavy. We'll wait and see, meanwhile there's bronze protoss cheese for me to rage to. I wonder what the release schedule is? Is Immortals gates of pyre gonna release this year? They been in development for longer than Stormgate and must also be running out of funds (though I assume they are vastly more responsible than Frostgiant). Zerospace I think first will release next year? David Kim's new game probably closed beta towards the end of the year? Release 2025?
Zerospace will go into closed beta sometime this year, scheduled for end Dec. Personally I think the multiplayer side is already good enough for a full v1.0 launch. Haven't faced any bug at all.
Won't be surprised if they decided to move up the beta date.
That being said this isn't a free to play game, probably not as big of a threat.
I heard gate of pyre has a massive update coming this year, not sure if that means beta or what.
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On May 02 2024 15:09 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2024 07:31 Miragee wrote:On May 01 2024 19:48 gTank wrote:
Yes, I think its not a great stage right now, also new race too.
If I compare it to Godsworn (made by two people!) it looks so bland and low quality. I had a look at this game after I reading your post and it takes the same direction stylistically as Stormgate but is somehow far more detailed and sophisticated, even though it's only made by 2 people? Well... Obviously I can't say much about the gameplay of Godsworn but it look like what I would imagine a Warcraft 4 to look like. On May 02 2024 06:18 Hider wrote:On May 02 2024 05:28 nforce wrote:
I'm not the one to pay for a pre-order on a free to play game but I enjoyed watching YT vids and Twitch streams of the game and was under the impression that this Frigate patch would be available to streamers/YT too so it was a bit of a disappointment to learn that it was fully NDAd.
I understand and feel for them, but in terms of marketing and generating hype, especially off of a something that looked like quite a successful Steam Fest/beta phase, they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. Especially with 2024-5 being so RTS heavy. We'll wait and see, meanwhile there's bronze protoss cheese for me to rage to. I wonder what the release schedule is? Is Immortals gates of pyre gonna release this year? They been in development for longer than Stormgate and must also be running out of funds (though I assume they are vastly more responsible than Frostgiant). Zerospace I think first will release next year? David Kim's new game probably closed beta towards the end of the year? Release 2025? You mean the release schedule for Stormgate? I'm not really sure I understand your post. Could you clarify? No for future RTS games.
Thank you! The "big" ones I'm aware of in addition to the ones you mentioned: Manor Lords just released. Homeworld 3 and Nordland are getting released in two weeks. Frostpunk 2 release is in July, which may coincide with the Early Access launch of Stormgate. Godsworn entered EA in march and is planned to release by the end of 2025, with some major content releases before that. Tempest Rising has no release date but I think chances are good it's going to release this year as well.
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How are we feeling about stormgate now that we are only a few months away from release? Obviously it's not finished but do u think it has potential to be popular and maintain that popularity after release? Could it be an esport that rivals SC2 and AOE?
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Maybe they'll pull something out at the last minute, crazier things have happened. But so far there's been not a single idea in the entire game that I find actually interesting.
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On May 03 2024 02:25 CicadaSC wrote:
How are we feeling about stormgate now that we are only a few months away from release? Obviously it's not finished but do u think it has potential to be popular and maintain that popularity after release? Could it be an esport that rivals SC2 and AOE?
At the moment I see no way for it to become popular to a degree comparable with SC2.
One thought that came to me the other day after thinking about how they say they aim for an easier barrier of entry. While they often talk about mechanic related stuff, I feel like the barrier of entry is much higher than BW or even SC2 when it comes to the stuff you are bombarded with from the start of your very first match. You have to manage some extra ressource, extra spells not associated with a unit or building, creep camps and every unit has special upgrades and abilities beyond +1 att/+1def. Some stuff is hidden away in menues. I honestly hoped for some innovative ideas to make an RTS more approachable after they first announced the game - even though they seemed to have no idea how they could achieve it back then. But they had time to brainstorm and all they came up with so far is reducing the mechanical barrier of entry but increasing the info dump to an even more overwhelming level. I don't think this makes sense. You can play BW at 20 APM. But if you overwhelm the player when they first start the game, it will turn off a lot of people. Not saying that's bad in general, I just don't think it makes the game more approachable to a wider audience but the opposite to that effect.
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On May 03 2024 04:17 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2024 02:25 CicadaSC wrote:
How are we feeling about stormgate now that we are only a few months away from release? Obviously it's not finished but do u think it has potential to be popular and maintain that popularity after release? Could it be an esport that rivals SC2 and AOE? One thought that came to me the other day after thinking about how they say they aim for an easier barrier of entry. While they often talk about mechanic related stuff, I feel like the barrier of entry is much higher than BW or even SC2 when it comes to the stuff you are bombarded with from the start of your very first match. You have to manage some extra ressource, extra spells not associated with a unit or building, creep camps and every unit has special upgrades and abilities beyond +1 att/+1def. Some stuff is hidden away in menues. I honestly hoped for some innovative ideas to make an RTS more approachable after they first announced the game - even though they seemed to have no idea how they could achieve it back then. But they had time to brainstorm and all they came up with so far is reducing the mechanical barrier of entry but increasing the info dump to an even more overwhelming level. I don't think this makes sense. You can play BW at 20 APM. But if you overwhelm the player when they first start the game, it will turn off a lot of people. Not saying that's bad in general, I just don't think it makes the game more approachable to a wider audience but the opposite to that effect.
I was talking about this last night with a friend - there's just so many different options available from the very start of the game and it feels like you're at a breakneck pace from the very beginning.
Compare to WC3 or Zerg in Starcraft where you have one production building and two unit types at tier 1 - Zerg has Lings and Hydras/Roaches, Human has Footmen and Riflemen, Undead Ghouls and Fiends, etc. At tier 1 for Vanguard in Stormgate you have two separate production buildings with four different types of units, as well as a starting unit that needs to be microed/controlled while you are macroing. As you said, all the special upgrades are pretty complicated. It's really difficult to read anything and learn as a new player because there's simply so much information to process and the game ramps up really quickly.
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What about AoE2? That game is also quite complicated from the start, no?
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On May 03 2024 05:57 Miles_Edgeworth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2024 04:17 Miragee wrote:On May 03 2024 02:25 CicadaSC wrote:
How are we feeling about stormgate now that we are only a few months away from release? Obviously it's not finished but do u think it has potential to be popular and maintain that popularity after release? Could it be an esport that rivals SC2 and AOE? One thought that came to me the other day after thinking about how they say they aim for an easier barrier of entry. While they often talk about mechanic related stuff, I feel like the barrier of entry is much higher than BW or even SC2 when it comes to the stuff you are bombarded with from the start of your very first match. You have to manage some extra ressource, extra spells not associated with a unit or building, creep camps and every unit has special upgrades and abilities beyond +1 att/+1def. Some stuff is hidden away in menues. I honestly hoped for some innovative ideas to make an RTS more approachable after they first announced the game - even though they seemed to have no idea how they could achieve it back then. But they had time to brainstorm and all they came up with so far is reducing the mechanical barrier of entry but increasing the info dump to an even more overwhelming level. I don't think this makes sense. You can play BW at 20 APM. But if you overwhelm the player when they first start the game, it will turn off a lot of people. Not saying that's bad in general, I just don't think it makes the game more approachable to a wider audience but the opposite to that effect. I was talking about this last night with a friend - there's just so many different options available from the very start of the game and it feels like you're at a breakneck pace from the very beginning. Compare to WC3 or Zerg in Starcraft where you have one production building and two unit types at tier 1 - Zerg has Lings and Hydras/Roaches, Human has Footmen and Riflemen, Undead Ghouls and Fiends, etc. At tier 1 for Vanguard in Stormgate you have two separate production buildings with four different types of units, as well as a starting unit that needs to be microed/controlled while you are macroing. As you said, all the special upgrades are pretty complicated. It's really difficult to read anything and learn as a new player because there's simply so much information to process and the game ramps up really quickly.
Had the same feeling when I was in last beta. And that is coming from someone who has played a multitude of RTS. How on earth someone new or not as familiar to the genre is supposed to manage this I have no idea
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There will be more onboarding tools when the game is released. Obviously it will be overwhelming if you jump into a standard 1v1 match. Most players will play the campaign/tutorial initially and those are not in yet.
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Do we know when this phase of the beta becomes public? Or when the next public beta is if this one doesn't?
I got no time to check it out currently but it ll be nice to have some showmatches with the 3rd faction when/if it s released and also see some team games (2v2/3v3,4v4 whatever)
Edit: and also the final tiers of units. Sorry if this has already been revealed, i somewhat lost interest and also had absolutely no time so i ve been out of the loop for like 2-3months
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Do we know when this phase of the beta becomes public? Or when the next public beta if this one doesn't?
They said this is the last beta testing phase before early access, and once in EA, it will 100% be open to the public, so that is about as far as we know.
I got no time to check it out currently but it ll be nice to have some showmatches with the 3rd faction when/if it's released and also see some team games
I am running a 2v2 bracket during this testing phase and will record the matches so once the NDA lifts the videos go live (idk when that will be tho).
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On May 03 2024 21:27 Adico wrote:Show nested quote +Do we know when this phase of the beta becomes public? Or when the next public beta if this one doesn't?
They said this is the last beta testing phase before early access, and once in EA, it will 100% be open to the public, so that is about as far as we know. Show nested quote +I got no time to check it out currently but it ll be nice to have some showmatches with the 3rd faction when/if it's released and also see some team games I am running a 2v2 bracket during this testing phase and will record the matches so once the NDA lifts the videos go live (idk when that will be tho).
oh that s awesome
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On May 02 2024 04:47 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2024 04:37 MegaBuster wrote:🚫What do you mean? its a cheery happy mood at these times. 🚫🚫🚫 no-spoilers-nda-enforced
What you want to do is base your marketing around game streamers who make money by playing games for the public, then 🚫🚫🚫🚫strong arm their community and give them an ultimatum to learn a new game and make no money or fall behind the possible opportunity cost. 🚫🚫 This will make them HAPPY to play! 🚫🚫Its good to make the most interesting part of streaming, that is the trying of new things be completely hidden from the public. 🚫🚫🚫 no-spoilers-NDA-ENFORCED It really depends what they’re showing off. If I had a criticism it’s that they bounce to NDA closed, to open, back to NDA closed. If stuff’s in a very rough build I think it’s perfectly fair to keep it under wraps, but it makes that part in the middle odd. As I said at the time nothing is a hype killer than a very rough bare-bones build unless it’s a game showing some new and interesting type of game. In which case they’ll be more forgiving if other stuff is missing, less the case with what FG are trying to do. Feels a rather odd cadence to the auld hype building
For me the major criticism is that this is by all accounts an accessible by anyone test build of the game - since as long as you back them on kickstarter(I think its the $40 package?) you get access. So the NDA is really just there to separate paying customers from non-paying ones right now. It feels to me like an attempt to just get as many people to contribute as possible.
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On May 02 2024 16:54 KingzTig wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2024 06:18 Hider wrote:On May 02 2024 05:28 nforce wrote:
I'm not the one to pay for a pre-order on a free to play game but I enjoyed watching YT vids and Twitch streams of the game and was under the impression that this Frigate patch would be available to streamers/YT too so it was a bit of a disappointment to learn that it was fully NDAd.
I understand and feel for them, but in terms of marketing and generating hype, especially off of a something that looked like quite a successful Steam Fest/beta phase, they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. Especially with 2024-5 being so RTS heavy. We'll wait and see, meanwhile there's bronze protoss cheese for me to rage to. I wonder what the release schedule is? Is Immortals gates of pyre gonna release this year? They been in development for longer than Stormgate and must also be running out of funds (though I assume they are vastly more responsible than Frostgiant). Zerospace I think first will release next year? David Kim's new game probably closed beta towards the end of the year? Release 2025? Zerospace will go into closed beta sometime this year, scheduled for end Dec. Personally I think the multiplayer side is already good enough for a full v1.0 launch. Haven't faced any bug at all. Won't be surprised if they decided to move up the beta date. That being said this isn't a free to play game, probably not as big of a threat. I heard gate of pyre has a massive update coming this year, not sure if that means beta or what.
Thanks. Do you think Zerospace multiplayer is in a comparable state to Stormgate atm?
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On May 04 2024 00:39 cha0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2024 04:47 WombaT wrote:On May 02 2024 04:37 MegaBuster wrote:🚫What do you mean? its a cheery happy mood at these times. 🚫🚫🚫 no-spoilers-nda-enforced
What you want to do is base your marketing around game streamers who make money by playing games for the public, then 🚫🚫🚫🚫strong arm their community and give them an ultimatum to learn a new game and make no money or fall behind the possible opportunity cost. 🚫🚫 This will make them HAPPY to play! 🚫🚫Its good to make the most interesting part of streaming, that is the trying of new things be completely hidden from the public. 🚫🚫🚫 no-spoilers-NDA-ENFORCED It really depends what they’re showing off. If I had a criticism it’s that they bounce to NDA closed, to open, back to NDA closed. If stuff’s in a very rough build I think it’s perfectly fair to keep it under wraps, but it makes that part in the middle odd. As I said at the time nothing is a hype killer than a very rough bare-bones build unless it’s a game showing some new and interesting type of game. In which case they’ll be more forgiving if other stuff is missing, less the case with what FG are trying to do. Feels a rather odd cadence to the auld hype building For me the major criticism is that this is by all accounts an accessible by anyone test build of the game - since as long as you back them on kickstarter(I think its the $40 package?) you get access. So the NDA is really just there to separate paying customers from non-paying ones right now. It feels to me like an attempt to just get as many people to contribute as possible.
It’s not something that in and of itself bothers me, it’s sticking an open phase of a less finished product in the middle I find strange.
Idk what this build looks like, I’m assuming the tech trees are more filed out and the third faction is now involved.
As someone who maybe would have paid for access to this kind of build, but wasn’t bothered to play a build with 2 incomplete factions on 1/2 maps it seems a strange way to go about it.
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On May 03 2024 18:17 _Spartak_ wrote:
There will be more onboarding tools when the game is released. Obviously it will be overwhelming if you jump into a standard 1v1 match. Most players will play the campaign/tutorial initially and those are not in yet.
Will those tools be in the game at release? How are these things not present in the last beta?
In its filing, Frost Giant projects that it will have 50% of the monthly active users of StarCraft 2 Wings of Liberty and that it will have an EBITDA of 37.5 million in the first 12 months, with even higher expenses.
Let's keep the burn rate at just 1.5 million per month. That would mean they would have to sell $92.5 million worth of content in the first year. That would be 1.5 million players spending $60 in the first year.
Do you think that is realistic? I think it's more realistic that they have to cut their staff by at least 50%. But with their current output, which seems very low, how are they going to be able to deliver more content and features with even less employees in a year?
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They will at least have 3 prologue missions and 3 missions from the Vanguard campaign at early access launch. That should be a better platform for any new player to get to learn the game before moving to co-op or 1v1.
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They've said that RTS campaigns aren't good for teaching people to play and we will be given innovative new 'onboarding' and tutorialization tools that will cause uncontrollable exponential growth in RTS competency. A stormgate player will basically cough on someone and BAM new RTS player. Its going to be like the renaissance except nobody will have to read any books this time.
And these tools are coming, they are there and have not been shown at all because of CORPORATE ESPIONAGE — no doubt someone would steal them, so they must be held close to the chest and not used in the betas and demos where people also need to learn the game.
The skill floor of the game will rise, and rise glorious to the heavens and we will all ride it up and up and up.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On May 04 2024 10:20 MegaBuster wrote:
They've said that RTS campaigns aren't good for teaching people to play and we will be given innovative new 'onboarding' and tutorialization tools that will cause uncontrollable exponential growth in RTS competency. A stormgate player will basically cough on someone and BAM new RTS player. Its going to be like the renaissance except nobody will have to read any books this time.
And these tools are coming, they are there and have not been shown at all because of CORPORATE ESPIONAGE — no doubt someone would steal them, so they must be held close to the chest and not used in the betas and demos where people also need to learn the game.
The skill floor of the game will rise, and rise glorious to the heavens and we will all ride it up and up and up.
Do you ever get tired being relentlessly cynical about everything to do with this project?
Campaigns generally don’t prepare you well for melee multiplayer, this is patently a correct thing FG have identified
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EPT![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/a/uBgVexk)
