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NOTE: I think I forgot to mention that this is FREE. Also Multiplayer. Editor is 1.78MB. Main exe is 2.8 MB. All told, the instalation is about 58.5MB(Windows)
Main Page HERE: http://www.wesnoth.org
Download Page HERE: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/Download
Direct Download for Windows HERE: HERE
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Ok.
I have been playing this game for about a year now, but it just went from fun to OMG HOW IS THIS MUCH AWESOME POSSIBLE.
Wesnoth is a turn based game closer to the style of original warlords (If you've played it) than civ.
Each player gets a leader unit. This leader unit starts off as the strongest unit for that player, and while in a keep, can recruit units for gold, ogre battle style. Both (or many) players take turns moving their units and capturing cities for gold. A city provides income while it is held each turn, while a unit consumes gold for eachh turn it is out.
When a player recalls, he can choose a variety of units from whichver race he selected to play. Units have advancement trees, and gain experience through killing blows.
So:
Horseman>Knight OR Lancer>Great Knight OR Paladin, etc.
There are a whole bunch of different units. As well, terrain affects the strength of units, and units can have abilities such as heal, leadership, skirmish, backstab, poison etc.
This game is amazingly fun. It is Open Source and free, but with the 1.2 release is now on the level of a commercial game. It is actively developed and runs on linux, mac and windows.
There are several official campaigns which are both long and fun with multiple paths to take for each campaign. Units level up throughout the campaign and can be recalled for succeeding levels throughout the campaign.
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Modes of play
-Single Player (Campaign)
-Single Player (Melee vs AI)
-MULTIPLAYER
Graphics
-2D
-Custom attack animations and attack icons
-Extremely well drawn Terrain
-Character Drawings
Sound
-Sound effects (Still checking ^^)
-Music AMAZING I AM IN LOVE WITH THIS MUSIC. LOVE.
-Unit Speech in campaign is text only and clickthrough (no sound for this)
Story
-Varies based on Campaign selected
-Quality ranges from decent to good
-Click-through dialogue boxes with no scroll for those who are impatient
Features
-Extensive in-game graphical help-system
-WPL: Wesnoth Programming Language. Allows for any person to modify the game without digging through C++
-Strong Forum/Help Community
-Graphically based Map Editor
-Ability to Save/Load Multiplayer/Singleplayer Games.
-Fully functioning online Lobby, with ability to ban based on IP-Address
-Many different translations available. Support for right to left languages
-Single Player Tutorial
-A lot of stuff I am forgetting in my excitement.
Depth/Replayability
-Limitless
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Reviews - http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothReviews
Wiki/Maual - http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothManual
FAQ - http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/FAQ
Forum - http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/
Release Notes - http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.2/
Current Version: 1.2
FULL UNIT TREE: http://zapicm.freeshell.org/stable/index.html
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IMAGES:
+ Show Spoiler +
PM me if you want to play!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
that actually looks really fun. Your links/info on it are great, ty.
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it's fairly fun- there's a few things to note:
1. 1v1's are pretty good- there's like 3-4 maps that are standard for 1v1's
2. lots of people play team games. they take a long time though.
3. there's also custom "dotaish" games.
if you want to 1v1 sometime, we can play- there's a lot of elements that are similar to every strategy game. for example, loyalist (human) vs undead is based on a back and forth timing stuggle each day (2 turns of day, 2 turns of night, 2 turns in between) in which each side tries to push and do as much damage as possible. as you can guess, human pushes during day and undead during night (elves, for example, are neutral).
that's kind of the macro strategy element and the more complex and precise part is tactics/unit positioning. there's a number of things to know, involving areas of control -> unit blocking, creating chokes.
as for the campaign, sure it's kinda fun, especially for an open source game. the multiplayer certainly shines and it has a strong community.
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WHY IS THIS GAME SO HARD. DAMN YOU AI.
Anyone want to play a game? It only takes like 5minutes to download, and is easy to figure out. I need someone easy to play, as I appear to still be sucky after a year of playing :/
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hmm can anyone upload or find a link to dl lords2? i believe it was called lords of realm or something like that-lords3 or aka warlords:battlecry is a bit more known to newer generations :D
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i've never heard of this game. i'll definitely check it out.
edit: after playing through the tutorial (it was very good, btw) and a few missions of the campaign i have to say this game is really good. this is actually there first turn-based game i've ever played and i'm really enjoying it. is the civilization series similar to this as it is turn-based as well?
i highly recommend everyone give this game a go.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
This is pretty good, but I haven't exactly figured out the game's mechanics (like what to recruit and how much speed matters in advancing army groups, etc) so i'm really really bad after a month of playing.
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On December 25 2006 19:45 oneofthem wrote:
This is pretty good, but I haven't exactly figured out the game's mechanics (like what to recruit and how much speed matters in advancing army groups, etc) so i'm really really bad after a month of playing.
Yes. Very difficult. I think it is best to recruit ranged units first turn for scouting ( if shroud is on) and to capture villages for upkeep, then transfer to your main army. But I still cant get everything to work properly.
First, pick a faction and figure out the uses of the individual units. Wesnoth isnt like sc where everyone already knows the most efficient build orders and strategies. So you will have to experiment. Hopefully someone figures out the best strategies and tactics :D
But the only real way to learn is to practice. Dont be discouraged by the multiplayer AI, as it is absolutely brutal  .
I will be playing tomorrow! See you on the server!
And I will definitely PM you for game tomorrow seed 
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disagree. in multiplayer there are optimal openings in terms what you can recruit. in an 1v1 with set races you only open with 100 gold and make enough to make 1.3-1.5 units a turn. so there are very specific limitations on what is optimal to recruit.
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Played it with a friend today, and it is quite fun  Still gotta figure it all out though, I have no idea what all of the races and leaders and such are
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Dude, you're the fucking man. I wish I would have read this sooner.
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Wesnoth is so awesome. I actually paypal'ed $100 to the main developer a few months ago, just because I thought he deserved it.
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Yeah it's fun to play, would want to play it in multiplayer mode because of so much chance involved (hitchance).
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Random hit is not a bad thing. Skill in the game requires that you control the game with the knowledege of random hits in mind.
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And that helps you against that troll squashing your entire army due to bad luck/regeneration. Ok.
Edit: Forgot to mention I started playing because of the GREAT music too.
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I want to play someone. But most likely tomorrow, my aim is: soy giz msn is imurkoreanbrotha@Yahoo.com
msg me around 12:00 EST
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So what are you doing attacking a troll on unfavorable terrain with some thing that takes a large risk from being hit? Also ask yourself if better positioning and prioritization would have helped- any reason you are focusing down the troll? It's not a particularly dangerous target (take out assassins? grunts?) considering that it's fairly difficult to kill without the necessary firepower on the field. You might not be able to take it out effectively until X turns later etc.
All I'm saying is that your understanding of the game is at fault and not the random generator. There was a thread exactly on this topic and that was the voiced opinion of the undisputed top players in the game.
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I can't believe you're serious.
1. There is hitCHANCE in Wesnoth.
2. Even with 70% hitCHANCE, which is about as high as it gets under normal circumstances, there is
a probability that most of your hits will miss, foiling your battleplan completely. Most people would call that bad LUCK. It's like you go after 2 Zerglings with 4 Marines and there is, even though it's small, a chance that they'll all get killed in a head on fight. Since Wesnoth is otherwise quite balanced such loses can hurt you decisively. I have played Wesnoth extensively and there were quite some occasions where battles got turned around by such bad LUCK.
3. I don't like strategy games with that much LUCK involved.
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I don't know how much luck there is in practice. Going 0/3 with a unit that has 70% chance to hit probably won't completely foil a battle plan, since you likely have 10+ units, which you still expect to do their average damage. According to posts on the wesnoth forums, there is clear skill differentiation, so for example, great players nearly always beat merely good players, etc.
I didn't play much multiplayer, but it was very rare for me to be anything more than disappointed with poor random results in the single player campaigns.
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On December 27 2006 15:36 Monsen wrote:
I can't believe you're serious.
1. There is hitCHANCE in Wesnoth.
2. Even with 70% hitCHANCE, which is about as high as it gets under normal circumstances, there is
a probability that most of your hits will miss, foiling your battleplan completely. Most people would call that bad LUCK. It's like you go after 2 Zerglings with 4 Marines and there is, even though it's small, a chance that they'll all get killed in a head on fight. Since Wesnoth is otherwise quite balanced such loses can hurt you decisively. I have played Wesnoth extensively and there were quite some occasions where battles got turned around by such bad LUCK.
3. I don't like strategy games with that much LUCK involved.
What? If you surround a troll with 6 units, how long do you expect him to survive? You have to concentrate your attacks.
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Really? Amazing, I never thought of that...
For the brighter ones: Wesnoth is a great game if you're not too offended by luck being A factor. Not that big but existant nonetheless. I am, thus Wesnoth multiplayer is not for me, hmk ?
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On December 27 2006 16:07 Monsen wrote:
Really? Amazing, I never thought of that...
For the brighter ones: Wesnoth is a great game if you're not too offended by luck being A factor. Not that big but existant nonetheless. I am, thus Wesnoth multiplayer is not for me, hmk ?
Stop being Obtuse. If you lose because you cant manage to kill a troll fast enough because his regeneration is 'too strong' then you are doing something wrong. Its not luck that makes him survive 10 rounds while he takes out your entire army. Its you sucking at the game.
Now go practice. If you surround a unit, and make sure you have more than enough to finish off a unit while still trying to maintain defensive lines, almost no luck is involved. At all.
Plus, ever notice how a troll is chaotic and has absolutely no ranged attack? Gee, wonder how we could use it to our advantage? Nevermind. I will just charge him with my horseman at night in the hills once a turn and if it doesnt work out gripe about luck.
Then if people try to help me see there are ways to avoid some of that luck from being a factor, I will assume they are obviously nubs, get high and mighty, treat the other posters like shit and then storm off.
Now, stop ruining my thread.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Yeah luck is involved, kinda like real combat (which this is designed to simulate to some degree) but tehn again this luck factor fades once the game become more macro, with more battle instances so the avg shines through..statistics.
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On December 27 2006 16:28 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2006 16:07 Monsen wrote:
Really? Amazing, I never thought of that...
For the brighter ones: Wesnoth is a great game if you're not too offended by luck being A factor. Not that big but existant nonetheless. I am, thus Wesnoth multiplayer is not for me, hmk ? Stop being Obtuse. If you lose because you cant manage to kill a troll fast enough because his regeneration is 'too strong' then you are doing something wrong. Its not luck that makes him survive 10 rounds while he takes out your entire army. Its you sucking at the game. Now go practice. If you surround a unit, and make sure you have more than enough to finish off a unit while still trying to maintain defensive lines, almost no luck is involved. At all. Plus, ever notice how a troll is chaotic and has absolutely no ranged attack? Gee, wonder how we could use it to our advantage? Nevermind. I will just charge him with my horseman at night in the hills once a turn and if it doesnt work out gripe about luck. Then if people try to help me see there are ways to avoid some of that luck from being a factor, I will assume they are obviously nubs, get high and mighty, treat the other posters like shit and then storm off. Now, stop ruining my thread.
It might have been an extreme example chosen to illustrate "luck". But then it also might have been bait to make you show how retarded you are. Noone will ever know. I'm not going to bother setting up decent, realistic examples of some of the battlesituations I have experienced. Instead I will let you work it out on a linguistic level. Try to argue with the word hitCHANCE and then deny luck being a factor.
Edit: Ruining your thread? If you can't take critizism towards the subject you broach then maybe you shouldn't post at all? Not to mention that I said from the start that Wesnoth is a great game just the multiplayer not being to my liking due to stated reasons. Talk about being obtuse...
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On December 27 2006 19:06 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2006 16:28 fusionsdf wrote:On December 27 2006 16:07 Monsen wrote:
Really? Amazing, I never thought of that...
For the brighter ones: Wesnoth is a great game if you're not too offended by luck being A factor. Not that big but existant nonetheless. I am, thus Wesnoth multiplayer is not for me, hmk ? Stop being Obtuse. If you lose because you cant manage to kill a troll fast enough because his regeneration is 'too strong' then you are doing something wrong. Its not luck that makes him survive 10 rounds while he takes out your entire army. Its you sucking at the game. Now go practice. If you surround a unit, and make sure you have more than enough to finish off a unit while still trying to maintain defensive lines, almost no luck is involved. At all. Plus, ever notice how a troll is chaotic and has absolutely no ranged attack? Gee, wonder how we could use it to our advantage? Nevermind. I will just charge him with my horseman at night in the hills once a turn and if it doesnt work out gripe about luck. Then if people try to help me see there are ways to avoid some of that luck from being a factor, I will assume they are obviously nubs, get high and mighty, treat the other posters like shit and then storm off. Now, stop ruining my thread. It might have been an extreme example chosen to illustrate "luck". But then it also might have been bait to make you show how retarded you are. Noone will ever know. I'm not going to bother setting up decent, realistic examples of some of the battlesituations I have experienced. Instead I will let you work it out on a linguistic level. Try to argue with the word hitCHANCE and then deny luck being a factor. Edit: Ruining your thread? If you can't take critizism towards the subject you broach then maybe you shouldn't post at all? Not to mention that I said from the start that Wesnoth is a great game just the multiplayer not being to my liking due to stated reasons. Talk about being obtuse...
You wont give an example, because you can't. You don't really have a point. You are just trying to troll a thread.
BTW, using a troll as an example unit was a nice touch.
IHBT. IHL. I HAND.
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I played the tutorial campaign easily enough and was having fun learning about all the new rules and statistics. Then I started the first actual campaign and gave up on the third mission when i missed 8 shots out of 10 having a 40% chance to hit. The same monster then hit my lvl 2 unit with every hit, killing him. I was still way ahead, but things like that just bother me.
Not to be detered, i downloaded some replays from their forums and watched to see how the seasoned players faired. Overall, i'd say the effects of the randomness were usually averaged out for better and for worse. The better player usually won, but you still occasionally see somebody get especially lucky and wipe his opponent off the map.
Overall It's an interesting game, but it's not for me. Thanks for posting it though.
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On December 27 2006 22:06 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2006 19:06 Monsen wrote:On December 27 2006 16:28 fusionsdf wrote:On December 27 2006 16:07 Monsen wrote:
Really? Amazing, I never thought of that...
For the brighter ones: Wesnoth is a great game if you're not too offended by luck being A factor. Not that big but existant nonetheless. I am, thus Wesnoth multiplayer is not for me, hmk ? Stop being Obtuse. If you lose because you cant manage to kill a troll fast enough because his regeneration is 'too strong' then you are doing something wrong. Its not luck that makes him survive 10 rounds while he takes out your entire army. Its you sucking at the game. Now go practice. If you surround a unit, and make sure you have more than enough to finish off a unit while still trying to maintain defensive lines, almost no luck is involved. At all. Plus, ever notice how a troll is chaotic and has absolutely no ranged attack? Gee, wonder how we could use it to our advantage? Nevermind. I will just charge him with my horseman at night in the hills once a turn and if it doesnt work out gripe about luck. Then if people try to help me see there are ways to avoid some of that luck from being a factor, I will assume they are obviously nubs, get high and mighty, treat the other posters like shit and then storm off. Now, stop ruining my thread. It might have been an extreme example chosen to illustrate "luck". But then it also might have been bait to make you show how retarded you are. Noone will ever know. I'm not going to bother setting up decent, realistic examples of some of the battlesituations I have experienced. Instead I will let you work it out on a linguistic level. Try to argue with the word hitCHANCE and then deny luck being a factor. Edit: Ruining your thread? If you can't take critizism towards the subject you broach then maybe you shouldn't post at all? Not to mention that I said from the start that Wesnoth is a great game just the multiplayer not being to my liking due to stated reasons. Talk about being obtuse... You wont give an example, because you can't. You don't really have a point. You are just trying to troll a thread. BTW, using a troll as an example unit was a nice touch. IHBT. IHL. I HAND.
Any early game really but especially for Mr.Dodger: 1v1@Blitz2p, Rebels vs Undead, 2 Scouts killing 2 Ghosts occupying Villages in 2 cunsecutive turns at dusk/1st watch. I see it's hard for you to get the big picture. Other have already pointed out that luck cancels out when the game turns macro. Ergo luck can be quite a factor in early game, retard.
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what's the counter to mass trolls? they have no weakness, 13 gold i think. line 3 of them up and u can't surround so they get to abuse regen like crazy? i mean wow :|
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Monsen:
Don't even post here any more. Rebel scouts? Are you fucking kidding me? Do you even play? Yea right. Recruit more scouts please until UD. If there's any unit that rebels shouldn't be recruiting, it's scouts. One last time- I'm saying you are too fucking retarded to have a proper opinion on this matter. Fuck off.
Requiem:
I don't recall- requiem = aether? Anyhow, trolls have low defense so pretty much get schooled on any terrain. They are also slow and have low hits. So if you position yourself properly trolls will miss a lot- and with their poor speed it will be easy to position advantageously. Additionally each race has a few other things to help cancel out their strength.
Loyalist: Just need to concentrate and take one out each day turn
Orc: Assassins- you can poison every troll and negate all of their regen. Then they are just shitty units.
Rebel: Lots of infantry supported by enchantress to slow
That's just a quick taste. To give you an idea of the strategy- rebels vs orcs on blitz might revolve around defending for a number of days until you create enough of an advantage to push across. Orc will be hitting you hard from the first night and you simply need to keep enough units alive and going until you can overwhelm his push and push back. This means that on that map specifically one fork of the map will be the main battle and the other fork will be just be the maintenance of the bridge.
It's tough for the elves because if you are unable to secure the advantage you can lose because you lost too many units or wasted too much time. In the first case, you'll just be overrun- in the second, the orc will have leveled some units and even with equal armies be too hard to hold.
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Wow, some peoples ignorance knows no boundaries. It seems it's true that my posts here are a waste of my time.
1. Where did I say I played Rebels.
2. It does not fucking matter what fucking unit I or fucking anyone fucking builds as long as there is an early low unit count game and HITCHANCE YOU FUCKING MORON.
3. You will realize that already other people voiced the same issues.
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I think Monsen should play a set vs fusionsdf and stop flaming each other.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
The problem with the hit chance is magnified by teh units having lowish hitpoints-damage ratio, so few hits and "trials" occur in a given battle sequence. But the hitchance mechanism is ok for something like accounting for terrain.
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Just FYI, 3 replays of high level tournament play.
If you're a moron denying the luck factor in wesnoth I'd suggest paying attention to the chat. For all the others, enjoy the games, they are rather interesting.
Wesnoth tournament replays- Sombra vs Soliton
Edit: Great epic battle showing a perfect example of luck deciding the game in the end.
semifinals game 2
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Russian Federation1401 Posts
Oh my, I have recently randomly discovered this game and recalled this post on Tl.net.
This is a geeky game made by geeks for geeks, so all of us D&D dice rolleres will appreciate it a lot.
I propose creating a Teamliquid clan!
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NICE FIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i used to play langrisser I and II, shining force II and super robot war etc, those strategy games rox. and this find is really similar to ogre battle.
THANK YOU FOR THE BUMP! or i would have NEVER FOUND IT WHHEEEE
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Russian Federation1401 Posts
On April 09 2007 17:39 Tarte wrote:
Lamely bumped SF-Fork.
C'mon, for once I succesfully use the search function and I am being flamed for it -_-
You don't have to comment if you are not interested.
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The only weakness about creating said clan is that there is no really lobby system.
Do you chill in the TL IRC channel SF-Fork/yisun? If so, we could always organize games that way - and just ask who wants to play.
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Russian Federation1401 Posts
On April 10 2007 07:27 marquis wrote:
The only weakness about creating said clan is that there is no really lobby system.
Do you chill in the TL IRC channel SF-Fork/yisun? If so, we could always organize games that way - and just ask who wants to play.
Sadly my internet connection is currently unstable so I am not able to play without disconectin every 15 min, which is quite annoying.
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On April 10 2007 07:27 marquis wrote:
The only weakness about creating said clan is that there is no really lobby system.
Do you chill in the TL IRC channel SF-Fork/yisun? If so, we could always organize games that way - and just ask who wants to play.
hmmm, i havent used IRC for a while, and never went to teamliquid irc once LoL.
have not intensively played wesnoth yet, much more to learn about it ^_^
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Looks amazing, reminds me back when I played Lords of Magic. Thanks!
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This game is freaking awesome
FFT style - old school
I love it
I'm doing Heir to the Throne campaign atm
Almost finished it
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lolol im also doing heir to the throne.
But this game is hella annoying. I refuse to let my "main characters" die. So..... I reload every 2 min. haha T_T i suck
oh and it didnt help that im always outnumbered like 5 to 1. First few lvls were really hard cus I had a few lvled up chars and thats all I used. Now I have a pretty good group of lvl 2 or 3 so I can steamroll everyone. Oh and AI is brutal.. if u leave one guy exposed they gangbang him so bad
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On April 15 2007 21:24 gameguard wrote:
lolol im also doing heir to the throne.
But this game is hella annoying. I refuse to let my characters die if they are even lvl 2. So..... I reload every 2 min. haha T_T i suck
lol, ur kinda like me, i refuse to let any of my char die in almost all the strategy games -_-
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Just beat it
btw, is all the campaigns end up as the same ending or something?
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Russian Federation1401 Posts
On April 15 2007 21:24 gameguard wrote:
lolol im also doing heir to the throne.
But this game is hella annoying. I refuse to let my "main characters" die. So..... I reload every 2 min. haha T_T i suck
oh and it didnt help that im always outnumbered like 5 to 1. First few lvls were really hard cus I had a few lvled up chars and thats all I used. Now I have a pretty good group of lvl 2 or 3 so I can steamroll everyone. Oh and AI is brutal.. if u leave one guy exposed they gangbang him so bad
Meh I don't think the AI is that good. They surround your units correctly but they don't choose the units they make very well, and never adapt to your strategy. It is extremely easy to fool.
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Bumping this post because Wesnoth 1.6 was released Sunday, March 22 2009. The easy-to-read changelog can be found here.
If you haven't played the game yet, read the OP because it is still accurate. There have been loads of changes to the game since the OP but it's mostly been graphical (adding animations, improving unit pictures and descriptions). The core game is still the same; it's still really balanced and loads of fun to play multiplayer.
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lol i remember a friend of mine used to play Orcs and go mass goblins with some grunts every game.
He did surprisingly well with it too
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I used to play this many versions ago, but eventually forgot it.
I guess it's time to check it again after all this time.
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United States20661 Posts
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I've played this for years now and it's a really good game.
Btw this game is way more awesome in multiplayer than in singleplayer.
Edit: oh it was a bumped post o_o
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On April 15 2007 21:24 gameguard wrote:
lolol im also doing heir to the throne.
But this game is hella annoying. I refuse to let my "main characters" die. So..... I reload every 2 min. haha T_T i suck
oh and it didnt help that im always outnumbered like 5 to 1. First few lvls were really hard cus I had a few lvled up chars and thats all I used. Now I have a pretty good group of lvl 2 or 3 so I can steamroll everyone. Oh and AI is brutal.. if u leave one guy exposed they gangbang him so bad
yeah on that campaign I find you really have to pay attention for the first few levels to make sure you have units leveling up etc for the harder difficulties. You can still do it without rerolling, you just have to be careful not to assume you're going to get the hit you want and leave a valuable unit vulnerable.
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Bump, Wesnoth 1.8 just came out.
+ Show Spoiler +
I randomly discovered this game about a month ago when someone posted an image of it in a thread about Civ V and i have to say i love it.
Being a big fan of turn based strategy games (Tactics Ogre, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars and Final Fantasy Tactics) this game was surely my kind of thing with it's many campaings and replay value.
So far, i think i can describe the game like this:
On the good side:
-Impressive sprite and animation quality for an open source game.
-Dozens of official campaings totalling about two hundred scenarios in all.
-Full multiplayer support with a decent number of people playing most of the time.
-Many "UMS" types of games.
-Six really different and mostly balanced factions for multiplayer.
On the bad side:
-Most campaings are really bad as far as story and dialogue goes, but the fun gameplay (at least for me) makes up for it.
-Game is very random because chance to hit is determined only by terrain, going from 30% (40 to 50 being the most common) up to 90%. The developers have stated many times that is just they way they want the game to be, so it might not be a good choice to play if you hate random non deterministic games.
-People tend to leave way too early in MP games, which can be frustrating.
If you can:
A) Play this game as just that, a game, and not try to find some competitive aspect in a game not designed for it and just have fun, Wesnoth might be a good experience.
B) Not play the campaigns as if you were playing Fire Emblem (trying to keep every single leveled unit alive at all times) or Advance Wars (using only recruits) beacuse otherwise the game will just become a retarded sea of frustration and mass reloading.
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I've thought many times about starting to play this multiplayer, but never gotten round to it, though I played some campaigns 4-5 years ago (and played only fps online then heh)...
And I dont see any problem with the randomness. You know what the chances are for different things to happen, and have to take into account your units failing - your move is not good if you cant deal with bad luck with it. Unless youre behind and need some risk to catch up or such, of course. But randomity forces you to constantly improvise, which should very much favor a good clever player.
http://ladder.subversiva.org/ Wessnoth ladder site
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I was going to play this after I finished all the tactics games on the DS.
I've only played an older version a few times on LAN and some of the campaign but it was good fun.
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When I needed good strategy games for Linux, Wesnoth was there for me! Very tactical, you need to master movement, formations, different damage types, managing income/upkeep, and even when you think you're on top of everything, a streak of bad luck can make it all fall apart. This game keeps you on your toes... Brilliant!
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Wesnoth is an awesome game ( especially for a free game ), but in my opinion it lacks something to be truly outstanding. I know that the developers did an awesome job of balancing the game and fixing all the potential bugs but i still think that their decision to keep the game "simple" is not good.
This game could be one of the best games ever made with a couple of changes and campaigns with a good storyline.
i.e my main complaints ( from a previous post ):
- Give fucking range to ranged units ffs.
- Make riders really fast ... they arent really faster than infantry.
- Dont heal units when they level up. That ruined many battles for me and it isnt realistic at all.
- Make units a bit more different. Their stats are often really close.
- Make level up a bit more interesting even if you have completed the unit progression tree ... because it become really boring after level 3.
- Change the hit system. That magic 70% attack isnt realistic at all and it lacks of complexity.
- Change healers abilities. The auto heal around the caster is retarded and imba. You should have to chose the unit you want to heal. Casters should be slightly more expensive and have many different spells with range and different effects ( it isnt fun to have a wizard who is like a melee unit + a 70% hit ratio )
- Make many more abilities for units + new kind of ground tiles ( a goldmine, some sort of buildings to recruit special units and so on ). A sapper unit able to build defenses would be awesome for example.
- give items for your hero ( he is just like a normal unit and i think it is lame )
Anyway i think that everyone should try this game.
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On April 06 2010 09:02 JohannesH wrote:And I dont see any problem with the randomness. You know what the chances are for different things to happen, and have to take into account your units failing - your move is not good if you cant deal with bad luck with it. Unless youre behind and need some risk to catch up or such, of course. But randomity forces you to constantly improvise, which should very much favor a good clever player. http://ladder.subversiva.org/ Wessnoth ladder site
There are too many key elements involved to allow bad luck to cancel out over time/large numbers.
Bad luck in the early game can get you economically far behind resulting in a loss.
Bad luck can get your hero killed -> Loss.
Bad luck can block important hexes impeding your movement in key situations (hero blocked from reaching keep making you unable to recruit).
While there certainly are extremely skilled players that can overcome streaks of bad luck, you simply cannot plan for it.
If you play so save that no bad luck can really hurt you, you'll just fall behind economically and lose anyway. Also I'd make the claim that a general that assumes all his units will "fail" and plans accordingly, is a bad general.
That being said- I'm off playing the new campaign.
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This game is DEFINATELY not a luck based game
I used to play quite a fair amount of 1v1 as drakes, and a better play WILL roll you every single time
It is important to learn the common 1v1 maps very well (same importance as SC) as some strategies just wont work
Is gallifax still around? He was one of the very best players of this and i had some pretty epic games with him.
The game is extremely strategic and tactical and very, very complex. It can be an almost endless struggle to gain a good lead to push and win the game, and you often find yourself just cursing at players abusing the mechanics of their race (especially elves and dwarves)
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did anyone ever finish the last campaign??
i rem playing this game a lot a18 month ago
damn the last campaign is impossible on medium level even
couldnt finish it although i was like 2 levels from the end
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On April 12 2010 09:03 BrTarolg wrote:
This game is DEFINATELY not a luck based game
I used to play quite a fair amount of 1v1 as drakes, and a better play WILL roll you every single time
It is important to learn the common 1v1 maps very well (same importance as SC) as some strategies just wont work
Is gallifax still around? He was one of the very best players of this and i had some pretty epic games with him.
The game is extremely strategic and tactical and very, very complex. It can be an almost endless struggle to gain a good lead to push and win the game, and you often find yourself just cursing at players abusing the mechanics of their race (especially elves and dwarves)
You need to realize that there is a huge difference between "luck based" and "luck factor is strong enough that it can decide games".
No matter how good you are, you WILL lose (or win) games due to blatantly bad (good) luck (against equally skilled opponents, duh). That's not everyones cup of tea.
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The newest release is pretty sweet of this. Anyone around still playing?
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On April 12 2010 09:50 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 09:03 BrTarolg wrote:
This game is DEFINATELY not a luck based game
I used to play quite a fair amount of 1v1 as drakes, and a better play WILL roll you every single time
It is important to learn the common 1v1 maps very well (same importance as SC) as some strategies just wont work
Is gallifax still around? He was one of the very best players of this and i had some pretty epic games with him.
The game is extremely strategic and tactical and very, very complex. It can be an almost endless struggle to gain a good lead to push and win the game, and you often find yourself just cursing at players abusing the mechanics of their race (especially elves and dwarves) You need to realize that there is a huge difference between "luck based" and "luck factor is strong enough that it can decide games". No matter how good you are, you WILL lose (or win) games due to blatantly bad (good) luck (against equally skilled opponents, duh). That's not everyones cup of tea.
That will happen in RTS games too...
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Luckily, I saw this thread, when it was up on the side bar last time.
I used to play lots of Age of Wonders I and some Heroes of M&M, Disciple and so on. I'm really a huge fan of those turn-based strategy games in a fantasy setting. So I checked Wesnoth out and I'm stunned. So much content for free is just astonishing.
I played through the first 4 campaignes on easy. On the HttT there are some really difficult levels, but some of the shorter campaigns were quite easy.
The game is easy to learn at first, but you realise soon, that it's quite hard to master. It's not too complex but has tons of depth at the same time.
I'm looking forward to experience all the campaigns and than some custom games. The AI is very challenging.
I'm so happy I saw this thread. Thanks TL
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I'd love to play you on the server if you like.
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I expect to get roflstomped, but hey, why not.
I have time today, as long as the game dont take much longer than 90 minutes or so, don't really know what do expect, didn't look at multiplayer maps so far.
You can PM me a time, and then I hope I can make it on the server, but I think it's not too difficult.
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Just want to add that this game is Free Software, which means that you can copy it, share it, mod it, even release a game called "Besnoth" by copy and pasting it. It's FREE. This tends to build a strong community around the game, and actually most of the development is done by the community
If you want to participate in it you can. You can write code, draw art for it, testing things, but even just mentioning problems and gathering information about them already helps the community out.
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On April 12 2010 08:26 Boblion wrote:
- Give fucking range to ranged units ffs.
The developers have stated multiple times that (a) this is a game by the developers for the developers, and (b) they are not interested in 2-hex ranged units - the balance issues would be enormous, and would fundamentally change the mechanics of the game.
On April 12 2010 08:26 Boblion wrote:
- Make riders really fast ... they arent really faster than infantry.
- Dont heal units when they level up. That ruined many battles for me and it isnt realistic at all.
- Change the hit system. That magic 70% attack isnt realistic at all and it lacks of complexity.
- Change healers abilities. The auto heal around the caster is retarded and imba. You should have to chose the unit you want to heal. Casters should be slightly more expensive and have many different spells with range and different effects ( it isnt fun to have a wizard who is like a melee unit + a 70% hit ratio )
Err, scouts are really fast. The elven scout almost doubles the movement of typical infantry units.
Healing while leveling up is a mechanic of the game that one needs to learn to compensate for and strategize around. Advanced multiplayer is all about learning how to manage the XP of your units, and get them leveled and healed.
Err... again you seem to be railing against a fundamental game mechanic. Magic with 70% attack chance is specifically designed to break siege warfare and defenses. Use them to attack villages, units fortified on castle, etc. Then protect those weak ass Magic users with infantry.
Auto-heal gives a complex depth to positioning that is important. This game is 100% all about positioning units.
On April 12 2010 08:26 Boblion wrote:
- Make units a bit more different. Their stats are often really close.
- Make level up a bit more interesting even if you have completed the unit progression tree ... because it become really boring after level 3.
Their stats being very close is all about game balance. It`s the same reason why Blizz will make tiny tweaks like adjusting build times from 25 seconds to 20 seconds.
As others have said, it`s all about multiplayer - you don`t get very many units at level 3 in multiplayer. In this respect Wesnoth is very much like SC. The really strong, skilled players excel in 1v1 and MP scenarios. These are the same players who will tear apart AI`s in singleplayer.
On April 12 2010 08:26 Boblion wrote:
- Make many more abilities for units + new kind of ground tiles ( a goldmine, some sort of buildings to recruit special units and so on ). A sapper unit able to build defenses would be awesome for example.
- give items for your hero ( he is just like a normal unit and i think it is lame )
... You seem to want to play a different game entirely.
As for randomness in the game... The game stretches your ability to compensate for randomness. You don`t plan for all your units to fail. However, you do plan for contingencies. If (a) fails, go to plan B. If (b) fails, go to plan C. This makes battle a much more complex thing. Bad players will just keep going with plan A even when it has no chance to succeed. Strong players will go to (b) and (c) and compensate for the bad luck. Yes, in truly equal 1v1 matchups, luck can tip things one way or the other, but that`s also why people play Bo5 and Bo7 in tourneys.
As for ppl leaving, if you play enough and find other skilled ppl, you can set up fantastic games where they won`t leave mid-game, and often set up really fun 2v2 and 3v3 games. Also, 1v1v1 is one of my favorite game types in this. The 3-way tension is so much better in a TBS than in a RTS like SC.
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On June 02 2010 02:21 Nivra wrote:
Also, 1v1v1 is one of my favorite game types in this. The 3-way tension is so much better in a TBS than in a RTS like SC.
I really like this game, too--especially that its a free labor of love. I usually play the campaigns or tinker with my own campaigns for friends, but a 1v1v1 sounds really interesting! Next time I round up my Wesnoth buddies I'll have to try it.
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1v1v1 has to be played with really strategically minded play. The goal is to WIN. That means it's always in your interest if you're not the lead player to gang up on the leader. If you are the leader, you have to either hide your lead, or fortify in such a way that it makes attacking you very unappealing.
It's ruined by revenge play where one person suicides in rage against another. But a good 1v1v1 is oh so fun.
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Sorry, but you can try to defend the ability to plan for contingencies all you want, but at the end of the day, having your first turn go something like -60 EV loses you the game in the majority of cases. Even a shitty late engagement can turn multiple 95% kill chances leading to a win scenario into repeated 0-3 engagements and multiple level ups for your opponent.
I really like the game's balance in an upfront manner; the starts are varied and diverse and heavily matchup dependent but the RNG loves tossing out absolutely ridiculous results sometimes which really detracts from the game. While some people might play BO7s to nullify that downside, its still pretty fucking frustrating to play a game perfectly and lose. Its also pretty frustrating to know that you've been outplayed, then win by having, say, some skirmishers go 4-0 against their leader for 2 turns in a row while dodging pretty much everything tossed at them in the interim.
1v1v1 has to be played with really strategically minded play. The goal is to WIN. That means it's always in your interest if you're not the lead player to gang up on the leader. If you are the leader, you have to either hide your lead, or fortify in such a way that it makes attacking you very unappealing.
It's ruined by revenge play where one person suicides in rage against another. But a good 1v1v1 is oh so fun. Vast majority of people do not know how to use the status screen to check overall income and gold totals and do suicide on certain players often. The only thing you can do in situations like that is just try to get a huge xp lead on your opponent and push him out of the middle with level 2s once captain suicide lays off.
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On June 02 2010 03:33 L wrote:Its also pretty frustrating to know that you've been outplayed, then win by having, say, some skirmishers go 4-0 against their leader for 2 turns in a row while dodging pretty much everything tossed at them in the interim.
Well, you should never keep your leader available to attack via skirmishers for 2 turns in a row. Honestly, leader risk management is just one of those things you learn to account for the more you play. That kind of balance between using your leader as a high impact unit and keeping it alive from even 1% luck chances to kill it comes with experience.
As far as frustration from very unlucky events, it's understandable. I think when you play a lot of games, the super unlucky ones are the ones that tend to stick in your mind, however. Losing a game to something that happens 5% of the time should only happen once every 20 games. Yes, it's frustrating, but a lot of how excessively frustrating it is depends on how much you over-inflate the frequency of how often it happens.
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How frustrating it is also depends in part on how much poker you have played.
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On May 25 2010 00:26 JohannesH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 09:50 Monsen wrote:On April 12 2010 09:03 BrTarolg wrote:
This game is DEFINATELY not a luck based game
I used to play quite a fair amount of 1v1 as drakes, and a better play WILL roll you every single time
It is important to learn the common 1v1 maps very well (same importance as SC) as some strategies just wont work
Is gallifax still around? He was one of the very best players of this and i had some pretty epic games with him.
The game is extremely strategic and tactical and very, very complex. It can be an almost endless struggle to gain a good lead to push and win the game, and you often find yourself just cursing at players abusing the mechanics of their race (especially elves and dwarves) You need to realize that there is a huge difference between "luck based" and "luck factor is strong enough that it can decide games". No matter how good you are, you WILL lose (or win) games due to blatantly bad (good) luck (against equally skilled opponents, duh). That's not everyones cup of tea. That will happen in RTS games too...
A lot less often though. In RTS there is close to no hitchance involved for units. While there will always be luck involved with scouting and build orders, units fighting each other will for the most part not be influenced by luck.
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On June 05 2010 18:26 Phrujbaz wrote:
How frustrating it is also depends in part on how much poker you have played.
Don't most poker pros claim that they always "run bad" ?
Wesnoth can be just like that.
Still an amazing project and game to be sure.
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I've been playing for a few week mainly the campaignes. Even the AI kick my asses even though i know it's mainly my fault for doing stupid things like moving to fast to far.
I wonder where i can find some replays about some good players to see how the game is played by people who mastered the game.
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For those complaining about luck, you can play like the pros do, "plan for all contingencies" aka only go in if you can't lose. Incidentally, it causes many games at high level to stall. I sometimes wonder how wesnoth would be like if luck was less prominent.
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Does anyone want to play, even if there is a "luck" based element to the game, it seems like a fun free game, and there isn't anything wrong with those =)
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On June 05 2010 18:57 Squallcloud wrote:
I wonder where i can find some replays about some good players to see how the game is played by people who mastered the game.
http://replays.wesnoth.org/1.8/ Every single observable game replay played on the official server.
http://ladder.subversiva.org/ Click on the top players and download their replays.
I'm liking this game a lot, and I've been very surprised how often I finish maps at exactly 0%/0% expected damage taken and received. The worst I've even seen was like -10%. If you try to play Wesnoth like every console SRPG out there, the luck factor can be very frustrating, but if you take proper advantage of terrain, resists, time of day, etc. and play defensively, you won't scream at your computer nearly as much.
One interesting aspect of competitive play is that it seems like you have to play random. In Starcraft, random isn't much of an advantage because there are safe opening builds that work against all races. In Wesnoth, you can't feasibly delay hiring units until after you've scouted your opponent's race so you may end up hiring a unit or two with limited use against a random player.
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I can pretty much garuantee that skill is a massive, MASSIVE overwhelming factor over luck in this game
Different races/matchups kind of change whether it is more about strategy/tactics
Btw if anyone wants to play me (im singapore time atm for the next few weeks) add me on msn- brtarolg at hotmail.com and message me up for a game
One thing i do agree is that high level games can tend to stall, esp if its a well played day/night matchup on a narrow map, it can suck when choosing to engage will only give a disadvantage on either side.
edit: btw about the person complaining about luck and getting your hero trapped.. If you get your leader trapped that is pretty much 100% your fault you should be planning these kinds of things.
Classic mistake to just run your hero in and then get surrounded by thieves lol
Back when i first started undead i would win a lot of matches vs players who moved out their hero and then i would stall it forever with ghosts and bats
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Btw sorry to bump
Pretty bored behind the great firewal of china
So atm my msn doesnt work but add me on skype Vincent.Tam / BrTarolg to play wesnoth cause i wanna start playing again
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One more bump i guess
I started playing competetively again for a bit, really wesnoth is a really deep strategical game
So message me if you wanna play , brtarolg at hotmail.com is my msn now also
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