EPTSo let me get to introducing myself a bit first, for those who don't know me. I am a 26 year old biology student/teacher who has been gaming since he was 6. I played a wide variety of games, but after some FPS in my teens, I eventually cut down to the ARPG, RPG and MMORPG genres along with RTS(that's how I got to this forum 3 years ago). When I was supposed to do homework I did hours-on-end grind in the first game that seemed to require that from me: Diablo 2. I did runeruns, first on Countess then on Pindle. I did this for, well, I supposed it might have been bad for my health but let's keep it at 14 to 16 hours a day when I got the chance.
I would do this while playing music, repeating the same music for hours along with the run, creating some sort of wave to coincide with my brain. For me, this was the ultimate form of relaxation. I did this for a few years (not all days of course, I had tons of fun with pvp and hardcore too) until I switched to WoW. There a whole new world of grinding opened up for me. I did the achievement hunting until I struck over 10.000 points in Cataclysm. I'm dragging this intro a bit, so I'll get to the point - I did Insane in the Membrane pre-patch as well (where lockbox grinding for ravenholdt was my favorite grind, I created the perfect grinding route - etc).
When my raid guild started to die out at the mid of cataclysm, I decided to myself that I was grown up enough to stop grinding in games - at least so I thought... I'll skip diablo 3 because I don't consider getting jaywilsoned to be enjoyable at all.
I would do this while playing music, repeating the same music for hours along with the run, creating some sort of wave to coincide with my brain. For me, this was the ultimate form of relaxation. I did this for a few years (not all days of course, I had tons of fun with pvp and hardcore too) until I switched to WoW. There a whole new world of grinding opened up for me. I did the achievement hunting until I struck over 10.000 points in Cataclysm. I'm dragging this intro a bit, so I'll get to the point - I did Insane in the Membrane pre-patch as well (where lockbox grinding for ravenholdt was my favorite grind, I created the perfect grinding route - etc).
When my raid guild started to die out at the mid of cataclysm, I decided to myself that I was grown up enough to stop grinding in games - at least so I thought... I'll skip diablo 3 because I don't consider getting jaywilsoned to be enjoyable at all.
Guild Wars 2 proliferates itself to be different from other MMORPGs at various points, from the holy triangle (tank dps healer) to the non-progression manifesto (no tier resets like in wow, when you have exotics it won't get better, althought we can argue about ascended items, but they are limited to fractals for now and only acessories) and last but definitely not least: Their anti-farming manifesto.
They claimed, far before the beta that 'farming or grinding is not fun'. Ok, fine I thought. I wanted to focus a bit more on my study, because a job and study can be taxing in time anyway, so this game seemed like a good casual distraction for me until HotS.
Or so I thought.
It was when I hit level 80 with my third character that the world started to bore me - events were cycles, hearts, I'd seen them all, it was pretty for sure but once you got the strategy for all dungeons it was very empty for me - I craved my usual challenge (read the introduction): Grinding.
I found myself with some time during the x-mas holiday so I went for it - a simple, small goal: Foefire's Essence. Not a legendary, just a pretty named exotic. At first I hated the thought of grinding without progression (the item is identical to other exotics, so you only grind for the looks), but in the end I felt that it was fine because I was warned for it.
I was fine, until I started grinding for it. It was on the third day of my grinding that I was confronted with the most miserable design-manifesto colleration I had seen since Diablo 3 (and that's big for me): I needed a 100 Charged Lodestones to be able to complete one part of my new sword. Yay - so far for the anti-farming manifesto - or so I thought.
But it got better. Not only did my weapon need 100 of these pretty rocks - no, so did 7 other legendaries (requiring between 100 and 750 of these stones) and 6 other named exotics (100 each). For comparison Glacial Lodestones only cost 40 silver on the Trade Post (the gw2 AH), while my charged costs over 4 gold (thats 400 silver). So I do the thing I do best: Research where to farm and go to the farming spot.
There are two spots in the game world outside of dungeons (where you are dependant upon often moronic other people) where I could grind my charged lodestones: both of the in Cursed Shore and both of them littered with bots. Reporting them was easy, but they are still there.
But that wasn't all - no, after having the need to be really fast with 'tagging' the elementals that can drop the lodestone, I was also confronted with the fun fact that they only spawn if my server controls the Temple of Dwayna, some sort of open world raid requiring chain event. Fine... I thought. No problem, I had done Insane in the Membrane, I can do this. So I do the chain event with friends and other people as often as I could in those 3 days to be able to farm.
But it doesn't end there - I had almost forgotten the manifesto of ArenaNet's Guild Wars 2 - that farming isn't fun. So I farmed for around 2 hours the first day (6 lodestones) and 3 hours the second day (8 lodestones) when I started to notice that the drops were decreasing. Not as in - less lodestones, no... no loot at all. I asked a friend of mine and he told me about the anti-farming script in GW2. Appearantly the designers did not feel the need to mention this 'small detail'.
After killing the same monster for 2 hours or more, they stop dropping loot alltogether.
What the fuck? Are they kidding? Their manifesto clearly says 'We want players to have fun and do what they like to do the most' in tandem with their 'farming isn't fun' rule, something that is a complete contradiction for me, as farming is fun for me. Secondly they create about 40 legendaries, which can be crafted from out of 8 different elemental stone types but then they align almost 30% of the legendaries (+ named exotics) you can make with only one of those elemental stones that are superhard to grind.
I was so surprised I laughed at my friend at first. But I'm not laughing now.
They pulled a jay wilson on me by deciding for me what they think is fun, are unable to evenly distribute the rare resources over the possible legendaries, are unable to take out bots from the game after reporting them for 4 days in a row and last but not least - they did this all because 'games should be free of a monthly fee, as that is better for all'.
Do you know what those bots do? They farm lodestones I helped them get by capturing Dwayna's Temple so that they can sell them to me and other poor bastards for real money because the gem-gold ratio price is higher than the third-party websites offering the stones. I can't farm them myself because of the anti-farming script - I can't buy gold because that's against my principles (I farm for fun for god's sake) and I am forced to 'just play the game to be able to eventually get that named exotic'.
+ Show Spoiler [Last Note] +
I can't say this game is over for me, or that it is a horrible game - because it's not. It's running on some fun principles and feels very experimental at some times, something that the MMO market desperately needs. It's just the design choices in correlation with the design manifesto that is making no sense at all and ruining the end-game experience for me.
So what I want to hear from you guys: How do you feel about an anti-farming script? When can it be used and when should it not be used? How should a game designer relate his beliefs (his manifesto) into the community, or shouldn't they at all?
Lastly a few polls to hear out your opinion on the anti-farming policy. Please only answer the polls if you actually played GW2 and can compare it to other (MMO)(A)RPGs.
Poll: How do you feel about A-F scripts in a game that requires farm?
That's a bad design-manifesto correlation. (27)
79%
That's a good choice because it fights botting at the root and bots are the root of all evil. (4)
12%
That's annoying for some, but it keeps the market stable and thats what matters. (3)
9%
That's an odd choice, but it works out. (0)
0%
That's fine, I never farm anyway. (0)
0%
34 total votes
That's a good choice because it fights botting at the root and bots are the root of all evil. (4)
That's annoying for some, but it keeps the market stable and thats what matters. (3)
That's an odd choice, but it works out. (0)
That's fine, I never farm anyway. (0)
34 total votes
Your vote: How do you feel about A-F scripts in a game that requires farm?
(Vote): That's a bad design-manifesto correlation.
(Vote): That's an odd choice, but it works out.
(Vote): That's annoying for some, but it keeps the market stable and thats what matters.
(Vote): That's a good choice because it fights botting at the root and bots are the root of all evil.
(Vote): That's fine, I never farm anyway.
Poll: When should A-F scripts be used?
To fight botting. (13)
62%
Never, A-F scripts contradict the MMO principle. (5)
24%
When a game has no legendary items to farm (so farming is only good for gold). (3)
14%
To fight the concept of players having no fun. (0)
0%
Always, this is a great idea to advance the MMO-genre to the next level. (0)
0%
21 total votes
Never, A-F scripts contradict the MMO principle. (5)
When a game has no legendary items to farm (so farming is only good for gold). (3)
To fight the concept of players having no fun. (0)
Always, this is a great idea to advance the MMO-genre to the next level. (0)
21 total votes
Your vote: When should A-F scripts be used?
(Vote): To fight botting.
(Vote): To fight the concept of players having no fun.
(Vote): When a game has no legendary items to farm (so farming is only good for gold).
(Vote): Never, A-F scripts contradict the MMO principle.
(Vote): Always, this is a great idea to advance the MMO-genre to the next level.
Poll: Should a company warn potential buyers about AF scripts?
Yes, if farming is required to obtain things in the game it can break the gaming experience. (16)
64%
Yes, they could post it as a selling post - there is no need to hide it if they think it's good . (5)
20%
No, you can't put every damned detail on the box. (2)
8%
No, if it's in their manifesto it's clear enough. (1)
4%
Other opinion, post in reply. (1)
4%
25 total votes
Yes, they could post it as a selling post - there is no need to hide it if they think it's good . (5)
No, you can't put every damned detail on the box. (2)
No, if it's in their manifesto it's clear enough. (1)
Other opinion, post in reply. (1)
25 total votes
Your vote: Should a company warn potential buyers about AF scripts?
(Vote): No, if it's in their manifesto it's clear enough.
(Vote): No, you can't put every damned detail on the box.
(Vote): Yes, if farming is required to obtain things in the game it can break the gaming experience.
(Vote): Yes, they could post it as a selling post - there is no need to hide it if they think it's good .
(Vote): Other opinion, post in reply.
