EPT2012 World Chess Championship: Anand vs Gelfand - Page 2
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Chunhyang
Bangladesh1389 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6259 Posts
On May 22 2012 23:01 Chunhyang wrote: With the recent buff to queens we should see white's winning percentage shoot way up Not if it's a mirror matchup! | ||
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MrProphylactic
296 Posts
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MrProphylactic
296 Posts
On May 23 2012 02:47 MrProphylactic wrote: While it is still losing objectively in all likelihood ( although I haven't had time to really look at it in depth ) , Nc6 would have led to an interesting imbalance instead of resigns in game 8 . to expand a little dxc6 seems more or less forced . If ...nc6 bd3?? then nd4 + and qf3 to follow . White is clearly;y better after dxnc6 qxc6 but black is still fighting . Still on this level Gelfand probably saw it just loses strategically for reasons I am not capable of seeing without deep analysis | ||
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HNOblivion
Brazil37 Posts
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Miyoshino
314 Posts
On May 22 2012 09:04 greggy wrote: smells of fix fix fix fix Come on, even I could see Qf2. User was warned for this post Leko didn't see it. Went back to that live cast commentary and that was funny as hell. "WTF is Anand doing. Oh wow he got Qf2. And now? Gelfand's queen being stuck is the theme. Uuh, he doesn't have any moves. What can Gelfand play. He has to resign now hasn't he?" Very rough paraphrasing. But it was funny. It was an unnatural theme so it isn't strange to overlook this since you have to calculate a lot anyway. If you don't see the theme and you decide to not even calculate those lines, you won't see it. Anand on the other hand claims he saw the theme going on way earlier so he knew in many lines his rook was going to be safe. If you want to be world champ you have to see that stuff. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 22 2012 09:04 greggy wrote: smells of fix fix fix fix Come on, even I could see Qf2. User was warned for this post That makes as much sense as looking at the worst shot in a snooker final and saying "even I could have potted that". Duh. It was the worst move of the match. You might be better than Gelfand at his absolute worst. At least for a few moves. Good for you. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On May 22 2012 19:07 popzags wrote: Well, first of all, 8...Bf6 wasn't the losing move. 14...Qf6 was. Second of all, while it's true that even a good amateur could have spotted the trap, and Gelfand definitely should have, he needed to spot it on move 14. At that point he had many other calculations on his mind that you or I would not even have been thinking about, and he was too quick to dismiss 15. PxN as a move that Anand would never play because it loses the exchange (as he thought). Sure, if he'd spent all his time thinking about the one line starting with 15. PxN, he'd have spotted Qf2, as would a much lower-rated player—but if he'd spent all his time thinking about that one line and not all the other possibilities, he would be a much lower-rated player. We spectators only see the line that's actually played, and that makes the blunder look more blatant than it actually is.What Gelfand did in game 8 amuses me. Really man? 8...Bf6??? Even me, 1800 rated player wouldn't even consider such move. | ||
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Makenshi
Sweden2105 Posts
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
On May 23 2012 07:16 Miyoshino wrote: Leko didn't see it. Went back to that live cast commentary and that was funny as hell. "WTF is Anand doing. Oh wow he got Qf2. And now? Gelfand's queen being stuck is the theme. Uuh, he doesn't have any moves. What can Gelfand play. He has to resign now hasn't he?" Very rough paraphrasing. But it was funny. It was an unnatural theme so it isn't strange to overlook this since you have to calculate a lot anyway. If you don't see the theme and you decide to not even calculate those lines, you won't see it. Anand on the other hand claims he saw the theme going on way earlier so he knew in many lines his rook was going to be safe. If you want to be world champ you have to see that stuff. Svidler missed the main theme in today's endgame - they came back and said "uhh I thought Re7 was a blunder but then I realised Ng8 was on" when the knight didn't really have any other squares to go. They're not professional casters, I don't think they're taking this as seriously as if they were playing. Didn't Gelfand say he was looking at Qf4 in that game? How could he miss Qf2? I mean I guess 'fix' is a bit strong but this is WC, and that game was an embarrassment. @ the other guy: snooker is a luck-based game. The ball may bounce off the cushion in an unexpected way, or you get a bad kick. It's unpredictable. There's nothing unpredictable about getting your queen trapped and having to drop a piece. | ||
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Miyoshino
314 Posts
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
And there's Houdini going through the game live on the official website if you really want to see the deeper lines. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 24 2012 04:30 greggy wrote: @ the other guy: snooker is a luck-based game. The ball may bounce off the cushion in an unexpected way, or you get a bad kick. It's unpredictable. There's nothing unpredictable about getting your queen trapped and having to drop a piece. Many bad misses aren't due to bad luck but a lapse in concentration. The key is to make these blunders as rare as possible. | ||
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HNOblivion
Brazil37 Posts
On May 24 2012 04:30 greggy wrote: Svidler missed the main theme in today's endgame - they came back and said "uhh I thought Re7 was a blunder but then I realised Ng8 was on" when the knight didn't really have any other squares to go. They're not professional casters, I don't think they're taking this as seriously as if they were playing. Didn't Gelfand say he was looking at Qf4 in that game? How could he miss Qf2? I mean I guess 'fix' is a bit strong but this is WC, and that game was an embarrassment. @ the other guy: snooker is a luck-based game. The ball may bounce off the cushion in an unexpected way, or you get a bad kick. It's unpredictable. There's nothing unpredictable about getting your queen trapped and having to drop a piece. Do you realise that is far easier "seeing moves" while on the couch with Houdini helping than in a high pressure WC match? | ||
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zanzib
China152 Posts
On May 24 2012 07:28 Miyoshino wrote: They should use a computer when casting. I strongly disagree with this. Few months earlier in a friendly match between former World Champion Kramnik and Aronian, one of the commentators (IM Werner Hug) who flipped on Houdini started interjecting while either Kramnik or Aronian were speaking and saying such things like "Well, Houdini likes this, why did you guys not think of it" and ruined a bit of the mood in the press conference. It gives a sense of entitlement sometime to players that cannot come up with ideas on their own, and seemed disingenuous at times to suggest the players had no idea what was going on because they can flip on Houdini. (It's great when you see guys try to analyze live and move the pieces around and try to figure it out instead of being flipping on an engine, like Kasparov, Svidler, Karpov, and Leko.) During the broadcast for game 10, GM Smerdon commented that 5...e5 move was reached before a tempo up and black won (albeit it was a ~2500 player stomping an amateur), I wonder if white could have played without getting into the liquidations after 6.Nxe5. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6259 Posts
On May 24 2012 07:28 Miyoshino wrote: They should use a computer when casting. Computers have ruined chess. It's so amusing that armchair amateurs armed with their powerful machines think they know it all... Without computers, even commentating grandmasters make mistakes - this shows how hard it is for players. I don't think the spectators know this... | ||
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Azzur
Australia6259 Posts
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6259 Posts
On May 28 2012 02:45 Aerisky wrote: Wait, I thought the world champion is currently Magnus Carlssen, not Anand? A bit confused, don't know that much about chess, could someone enlighten me? Magnus Carlssen is the world number 1 (based on FIDE rating) but Anand is the world champion. | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
On May 24 2012 11:49 HNOblivion wrote: Do you realise that is far easier "seeing moves" while on the couch with Houdini helping than in a high pressure WC match? It's not like we're talking about a line 15 moves deep - he should've seen it when he went for Qf6. I know it's easier to see it from the armchair but this is world championship after all. He is supposed to be a worthy contender, not making blunders an 1800 would make >_> On May 24 2012 10:15 hypercube wrote: Many bad misses aren't due to bad luck but a lapse in concentration. The key is to make these blunders as rare as possible. Many, but not all. There is some luck in snooker while there is no such thing in chess. | ||
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