On April 04 2012 05:02 Torenhire wrote:
I know they changed it a lot since wrath, how do 25s stack up to 10s? Do you need better gear to run the 25s, or is it just a "more people" version of the 10man?

To my knowledge, 25 does drop a little more loot, but 10man is the exact same loot (ilvl).

Serejai

6007 Posts

April 03 2012 20:20 GMT

#182

On April 04 2012 05:02 Torenhire wrote:
If my input qualifies for anything, I found that running two 10mans is far easier than one 25man. I'm down for whatever either way. Personally I like running a 10man better for the reasons you stated as a con for 25man, you can easily see who is fucking up and how to fix it, whether it's replacing them or helping them with gear/spec or whatever.

I know they changed it a lot since wrath, how do 25s stack up to 10s? Do you need better gear to run the 25s, or is it just a "more people" version of the 10man?

10s and 25s are the same gear. 10s are a bit harder simply due to the fact they are less forgiving and if a single person fucks up you're likely to wipe. 25s are a bit easier because you can have some dead weight and still clear everything.

25s are pretty dead on most servers. Only the really high pop ones have decent 25m pools. Any other server and you're basically going to spend more time in trade chat finding replacements/new invites than you will actually raiding. They're a lot more effort for the exact same reward (unless you consider it more prestigious to clear a raid with 25 people, but it's really not).

Dual 10s is a very solid format as long as each core is treated as a separate group and the replacements are generic. You don't want to keep swapping players between groups, but the replacements shouldn't be group-specific. Adjustments can be made to the groups but you generally at least want to keep the tanks and healers the same every week. The benefit of this format is that you're basically raiding like a 25m guild would (same amount of gear, potential for faster progression) but without all the stress and drama that a 25m guild brings. If you're at all familiar with business... a 10m is like a sole proprietor, a 25m is a corporation, and a 10m is an LLC (best of both worlds).

mistermichael

United States42 Posts

April 03 2012 20:31 GMT

#183

I think 2 teams of 10 people would be better because with less people; it is easier to learn each others habits, etc.

Clemz

United States70 Posts

April 03 2012 20:38 GMT

#184

25 drops the same amount of loot per person, read: 5 items on 25(25:5, or 5:1), 10s drop 2 items(10:2; 5:1). So 25s provide a faster means to gearing up, obviously. That said, I much prefer 10s personally, but I'd do either. I was actually raiding 25s until recently when they made the swap to 10s. 10s are also generally considered easier now with few fight exceptions(Namely Warmaster Blackhorn).

Serejai

6007 Posts

April 03 2012 20:42 GMT

#185

Unless they've changed something recently, 25m only drops four pieces of loot per boss and 10m drops two pieces of loot per boss. At least, that's what it was about two months ago when I last raided. So, it's actually slightly faster to gear up two 10m groups because you don't have those five extra people that a 25m does.

emji

Canada82 Posts

April 03 2012 20:42 GMT

#186

Why oh why must the servers be down :<

Why not just start with two 10s and then when people know what's going on switch to the 25? TL does everything hardcore, yo.
I do think eventually we'll have enough for 25, and maybe even the casual will want to try it out.
No need to rush anything to be honest, not like the raids are going anywhere.

Also, I can switch to whatever is needed, gearing up as a tank atm, but thinking about bringing other druid over for resto.

.gypsy

Canada689 Posts

April 03 2012 20:43 GMT

#187

I was planning on tanking with my dk assuming its viable in end game, but wouldnt mind playing dps based on our needs, just thought i would say smthg as im under the impression that we already have a lot of tanks oo

Torenhire

United States11681 Posts

April 03 2012 20:45 GMT

#188

Nvr you are guild tank atm, no resto allowed. :p

robo99

United States4 Posts

April 03 2012 20:57 GMT

#189

Most of the pros and cons of 10 vs 25s have been covered, but you need to be aware of the hardware your raiders are running. 25s are a lot more taxing on a machine than 10s are. From my experience, a number people who play WoW are using older hardware (since Blizzard designs the game to be able to run on almost any machine), so that is something to take into consideration. Just do what works best for your player pool.

As a side note, my personal preference is 25s. They have a much more 'epic' feeling when you down that final heroic boss, than 10s do. When you see 25 people doing exactly what they need to do and you get that final boss kill, its a pretty good feeling.

emji

Canada82 Posts

April 03 2012 20:58 GMT

#190

Haha, aight.
I lead a group to super long raids. Get ready guys!

Torenhire

United States11681 Posts

April 03 2012 21:00 GMT

#191

On April 04 2012 05:58 mnvr wrote:
Haha, aight.
I lead a group to super long raids. Get ready guys!

Haha, 3 hour Zul'Aman, no problem! At least we finally cleared it haha. We went through so many DPS in that run...good times have been had already, and it's been a little over a week haha.

edit: for reals though, just play what you want. if you want to resto it up, go for it. No one is going to stop you haha. I'll be tank ready once I find a shield TT

emji

Canada82 Posts

April 03 2012 21:10 GMT

#192

I dont mind either way, to be honest.
I'm a pretty bad tank lol, so if I need to be replaced it's cool lol

I can either tank, resto, or boom. Whatever we need.

Vindicare605

United States16124 Posts

April 03 2012 21:13 GMT

#193

Eh, why not.

I'm rolling a Troll Warrior over there when the realms come back up.

Come MoP though I have an officer position in New Pantheon on Kel'Thuzad's alliance that I'll probably be staying with.

Clemz

United States70 Posts

April 03 2012 21:32 GMT

#194

Servers are back up, but I won't be able to start until later tonight or tomorrow. Got some stuff to do before my raid tonight.

PHILtheTANK

United States1834 Posts

April 03 2012 21:34 GMT

#195

Omg servers are still down, about to kill myself out of boredom.

On the topic of 10 or 25m raids, I'm up for either one depending on whatever everyone else likes.

emji

Canada82 Posts

April 03 2012 21:38 GMT

#196

On April 04 2012 06:34 PHILtheTANK wrote:
Omg servers are still down, about to kill myself out of boredom.

On the topic of 10 or 25m raids, I'm up for either one depending on whatever everyone else likes.

They back up bro, three of us on atm.

Torenhire

United States11681 Posts

April 03 2012 21:41 GMT

#197

Shhh let him kill himself anyways!

:p jk haha. PhiltheTank is not actually a tank, in fact he's quite awful at tanking, so don't be fooled.

I just had a bunch of work erase due to program compiler crashing mid-load so GG Torenhire for LFR tonight, probably

PHILtheTANK

United States1834 Posts

April 03 2012 21:42 GMT

#198

On April 04 2012 06:41 Torenhire wrote:
Shhh let him kill himself anyways!

:p jk haha. PhiltheTank is not actually a tank, in fact he's quite awful at tanking, so don't be fooled.

I just had a bunch of work erase due to program compiler crashing mid-load so GG Torenhire for LFR tonight, probably

It turns out the reason I couldn't get on wasn't because servers were down... but because I still hadn't paid for my acct yet lol. THATS ABOUT TO CHANGE.

Masq

Canada1792 Posts

April 03 2012 21:45 GMT

#199

On April 04 2012 05:57 robo99 wrote:
As a side note, my personal preference is 25s. They have a much more 'epic' feeling when you down that final heroic boss, than 10s do. When you see 25 people doing exactly what they need to do and you get that final boss kill, its a pretty good feeling.

Yeah, I agree as well. They do have a more epic feeling and some of my fondest memories of the game are from 40mans. But at this point in time, I doubt they're worth the headache. Here's some of my old guilds videos back when I used to GM/Raidlead. In the vanilla/TBC videoes I'm a rogue (Masquerader) and in the WOTLK videos I'm a holy paladin (Khorium).
Yes, I know the shaman in the videos is bad. I couldn't find any burning crusade videos

Vanilla Naxx - 4 Horsemen

Vanilla Naxx - Kel'thuzad

WotLK Icecrown - Heroic Lich King

Hope this is getting people interested, we still could use some more players. Send me a PM or come on WoW/Mumble to chat!

Torenhire

United States11681 Posts

April 03 2012 21:58 GMT

#200

I had a ton of fun in my 40mans, haha. We did so much shit in those raids...In fact one of the funniest moments was when we (back in Vanilla you often had class-specific chat channels.. /join Guildpally or whatever, so you could coordinate buffs and healing targets for specific encounters) and I remember the pally class lead telling us to all pull Vaelestraz and then bubble hearth out, since we were done for the night...hahaha. The raid lead got so mad, hahaha...made the pally class lead pay for everyone's repairs (which was like 20g, x40 haha)

So worth it.

Also Naxx40 was a lot of fun, people complained that the boss encounters were super complicated and shit but I think that was the raid's charm, for myself in any case.