EPTBut now I'm thinking about restarting my party wasn't built very well
a couple of my characters are basically just plain uselessWasteland 2 Kickstarter - Page 7
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
But now I'm thinking about restarting my party wasn't built very well a couple of my characters are basically just plain useless | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 22 2014 02:43 bookwyrm wrote: I beat the badgers but I was about level 8. It really helps if you have a laser rifle and some grenades But now I'm thinking about restarting my party wasn't built very well a couple of my characters are basically just plain uselessJust get them killed and replace them with new recruits at Ranger citadel. They should level fast if you keep them alive  | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On September 21 2014 06:32 KaiserJohan wrote: Played for maybe 15ish hours on second-highest difficulty and here's my impressions so far: Combat: - Lack of tactical options, it feels too simplistic, especially pre-battle tactics - Why the hell is there no group-formation options? - Bad difficulty scaling, at some point too easy sometimes nearly impossible - Many enemies have rediculous movement speed, they can move an entire zoomed-out screen (or more) in a single move, any pre-combat tactical placement is void - Enemies also happen to have super-high initiative; combine with above, it's simply stupid. General: - Buggy/unpolished, easily needs another 3+ months of development - Not a big deal, but graphics could've been abit better - World map is very uninspiring... - No windowed-fullscreen mode means no alt-tabbing during tedious running or combat sequences - The plot, so far, is suprisingly bad, I really expected something more, partly because it feels you actually dont have much choice - Environments are sometimes great, sometimes lackluster Despite above, I am still having fun, although I cannot fathom how people can praise this game, in my opinion it is clearly unfinished and needs alot more development. I completely agree with all of this. What I'm missing the most is stealth. So far the combat system is far worse than what e.g. Fallout:Tactics offered 10 years or so ago. No sneaking around and silently stabbing the enemy guarding the gate in the back and due to the lack of out-of-battle pause you also can't shoot two opponents at the same time to start the fight even if you have the firepower to take them both out. You can only shoot one and then the fight starts with the whole group and the enemy usually moves first. Also, graphics wasn't emphasized enough. Terrain looks decent but I've seen better character models and textures from 2-man indie studios 5 years ago. Character customization is bad to begin with, but having each character look terrible no matter which option you chose just because the textures and models are so bad limits you even more. It's not a bad game, it's just far below the hype and I recommend waiting for at least a -25% sale on steam before buying it. | ||
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Greem
730 Posts
On September 21 2014 06:32 KaiserJohan wrote: Played for maybe 15ish hours on second-highest difficulty and here's my impressions so far: Combat: - Lack of tactical options, it feels too simplistic, especially pre-battle tactics - Why the hell is there no group-formation options? - Bad difficulty scaling, at some point too easy sometimes nearly impossible - Many enemies have rediculous movement speed, they can move an entire zoomed-out screen (or more) in a single move, any pre-combat tactical placement is void - Enemies also happen to have super-high initiative; combine with above, it's simply stupid. General: - Buggy/unpolished, easily needs another 3+ months of development - Not a big deal, but graphics could've been abit better - World map is very uninspiring... - No windowed-fullscreen mode means no alt-tabbing during tedious running or combat sequences - The plot, so far, is suprisingly bad, I really expected something more, partly because it feels you actually dont have much choice - Environments are sometimes great, sometimes lackluster Despite above, I am still having fun, although I cannot fathom how people can praise this game, in my opinion it is clearly unfinished and needs alot more development. I very much agree with some combat critique. The movement points and initiative of the enemies is a bit frustrating at Jerk difficulty. I wish it were a bit more slow paced . Some mix of Fallout 1/2 with X-Com would be great. Hoping they will fix this or mod will for sure. Here is an example of some frustration on Jerk difficulty, and this is only begining 5 hours into the game, i don't wanna know what will come next if simple bunnies can smash me like this : | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
Did you also try last Xcom on Impossible and complain about dying all the time?! | ||
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Greem
730 Posts
On September 22 2014 22:02 -Archangel- wrote: You are playing the game first time on hardest and complaining about the game being too hard?! (it is not called Supreme Jerk for no reason) Did you also try last Xcom on Impossible and complain about dying all the time?! Who's complaining ?) I'm completely fine with it. But i think its a but weird that a rabbit can get to a sniper shooting from max range in 1 turn, and its kinda breaks the reason for me. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On September 22 2014 22:07 Greem wrote: Who's complaining ?) I'm completely fine with it. But i think its a but weird that a rabbit can get to a sniper shooting from max range in 1 turn, and its kinda breaks the reason for me. I agree. High difficulty is fine if you have the possibility to prepare or use strategy to win. Enemies coming from out of vision range that can attack your furthest away character without you getting a chance to even set overwatch beforehand is just... not fun. In X-Com you could prepare for enemies. You could advance carefully with half your guys on overwatch, the other half moving forward and as long as you stayed in cover, you were fairly safe. In Wasteland 2 you get thrown into a battle and the enemies immediately begin ravaging your characters and your only hope is that they target the tankiest character first because there is nothing you can do to prepare apart from moving them into cover, which doesn't help against melee opponents that can move what feels like 50 tiles per turn. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 22 2014 22:35 Morfildur wrote: I agree. High difficulty is fine if you have the possibility to prepare or use strategy to win. Enemies coming from out of vision range that can attack your furthest away character without you getting a chance to even set overwatch beforehand is just... not fun. In X-Com you could prepare for enemies. You could advance carefully with half your guys on overwatch, the other half moving forward and as long as you stayed in cover, you were fairly safe. In Wasteland 2 you get thrown into a battle and the enemies immediately begin ravaging your characters and your only hope is that they target the tankiest character first because there is nothing you can do to prepare apart from moving them into cover, which doesn't help against melee opponents that can move what feels like 50 tiles per turn. You will prepare for second or third try when you know what happens. Highest difficulty should be about knowing what happens, and knowing how to min/max and use best tactics. So next time split your party, keep ranged guys even further back and go front with a melee guy and start combat with a grenade or a secondary ranged weapon. Or build better parties with more Combat Initiative so you go first before them. | ||
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Greem
730 Posts
On September 22 2014 22:35 Morfildur wrote: I agree. High difficulty is fine if you have the possibility to prepare or use strategy to win. Enemies coming from out of vision range that can attack your furthest away character without you getting a chance to even set overwatch beforehand is just... not fun. In X-Com you could prepare for enemies. You could advance carefully with half your guys on overwatch, the other half moving forward and as long as you stayed in cover, you were fairly safe. In Wasteland 2 you get thrown into a battle and the enemies immediately begin ravaging your characters and your only hope is that they target the tankiest character first because there is nothing you can do to prepare apart from moving them into cover, which doesn't help against melee opponents that can move what feels like 50 tiles per turn. Ye, exactly. Even playing safe and scouting ahead, it's kinda unpredictable, which is think its cool, but to a certain extent. On the second try in the same location, i got 3 rabbits with 1 dynamite, and didn't loose anyone, so obviously playing through the game second or third time this mess could be avoided to a certain extent , but the problems will persist in my opinion, lack of option to stop the enemy, snare themor whatever, i just need to take it with "tanks", meaning be a bit lucky , because as far as i know the first rabbit will stick to the sniper no matter whos standing before him, correct me if im wrong. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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Greem
730 Posts
On September 22 2014 23:19 -Archangel- wrote: And that is all OK for hardest difficulty. If you can go through tough fights without needing to load the game at least once, it is too easy and there should be an even harder difficulty. Old School games murdered you regularly even on normal. Absolutely agree, when you die, its when its hard, but even so, we played fallout, x-com, my point was that for my personal liking, there are too much movement points , also what KaiserJohan said about the combat feel . | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
On September 22 2014 22:39 -Archangel- wrote: You will prepare for second or third try when you know what happens. Highest difficulty should be about knowing what happens, and knowing how to min/max and use best tactics. So next time split your party, keep ranged guys even further back and go front with a melee guy and start combat with a grenade or a secondary ranged weapon. Or build better parties with more Combat Initiative so you go first before them. I wasnt playing on highest difficulty, second highest. Spliting is no point as they just bum rush you at almost any distance, and when you split your characters dont seem to stand still sometimes, as soon as you engage they move abit? Perhaps its a bug. Theres also a chronic shortage of various degrees of cover, except for a few carefully placed walls, which feels very much hand-painted and artifical - compare this to xcom where cover feels very natural Combat in xcom is simpler than Wasteland 2 on paper, but I find it ends up more tactically rewarding anyhow. There simply isn't enough you can do during combat other than min/maxing beforehand. As someone mentioned, stealth for example which is so prevalent in older games, where is it? Or why can they run up to your sniper from the edge of his range to his face in one turn? | ||
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SergioCQH
United States143 Posts
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 22 2014 23:32 Greem wrote: Absolutely agree, when you die, its when its hard, but even so, we played fallout, x-com, my point was that for my personal liking, there are too much movement points , also what KaiserJohan said about the combat feel . Some characters move a lot, some don't. If you make a well build melee character you will be able to move a lot as well. My complaint is more about that weapons should have longer range. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 23 2014 01:48 KaiserJohan wrote: I wasnt playing on highest difficulty, second highest. Spliting is no point as they just bum rush you at almost any distance, and when you split your characters dont seem to stand still sometimes, as soon as you engage they move abit? Perhaps its a bug. Theres also a chronic shortage of various degrees of cover, except for a few carefully placed walls, which feels very much hand-painted and artifical - compare this to xcom where cover feels very natural Combat in xcom is simpler than Wasteland 2 on paper, but I find it ends up more tactically rewarding anyhow. There simply isn't enough you can do during combat other than min/maxing beforehand. As someone mentioned, stealth for example which is so prevalent in older games, where is it? Or why can they run up to your sniper from the edge of his range to his face in one turn? Well WL2 has all the other things Xcom does not (real story, quests, character leveling, open world exploration), we can excuse it having less complex combat. And unlike Xcom, you are not limited to one grenade, 3 medkits and you don't have unlimited ammo. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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Isualin
Germany1903 Posts
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
@above I played shadowun returns for a bit and this game is way better in terms of tactical stuff | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 23 2014 05:23 Isualin wrote: I bought this yesterday after watching some youtube videos. Skills, attributes, ui and inventory system looks good. The weakest part of the game seems to be combat. Even if i split all my guys accross the screen, a raider with a crowbar(or a fucking toad) can move all the way back to my sniper in one turn. If i don't choose split party movement my guys clump up randomly when starting fights wtf? Shadowrun returns and xcom had much deeper strategic fights. If we skip the fights the game looks good though. Put your sniper even more back then. You can start combat when you want by Ctrl+clicking on enemy. They don't clump randomly but find a nearest empty square. Outside of combat they don't use squares for movement. | ||
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