EPTOn September 21 2014 05:40 Skilledblob wrote:
yep pretty much this. at the moment PvP is very burst dmg focused ( part of it is a inherent design flaw in AA ) . It's always the same though in every game. But as the game keep moving on and people get better gear and higher HP numbers the burst dmg builds will fade out for more group and sustain oriented builds.
btw I love my templar, tanks like a beast and does great healing. I am using plate armor at the moment ( only made it to level 35 so far ) and it's great to see all the cookie cutter physical dmg classes despair :D
I am playing as Harani to whoever it was that asked.
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2014 01:50 bluQ wrote:
Without knowing much about ArcheAge it seems it just boils down to sustain.
If you don't have the sustain to keep you alive go shadowplay as 3rd. And as always in scumbag-pvp you have A LOT of glass cannons thus alot of shadowplaying.
On September 21 2014 01:38 KeksX wrote:
@Capped:
You don't get my point. You are complaining that people are picking Shadowplay or rather that TOO many pick Shadowplay.
I say: It's not because of the game but everyone wants to be the "cool damage dealer".
It's the same issue everyone wants to play Mid in DotA2/LoL. People want to be the cool guy in front.
There are a ton of builds not based on Shadowplay but they, most of the time, have nothing to do with being in front and dealing the damage. But thats what most people want, so naturally, they pick Shadowplay-based builds.
Shadowplay is just a great addition to damage-based builds. So is Songcraft for Support-Based builds, Defense/Auramancy/Vitalism for Tank-based builds and so on.
For one purpose, one thing is better than the other. Thats only natural and not bad design at all.
I don't mind that at all, as I said in my opinion it is just good design and fixes a lot of issues.
Since you keep saying it removes customization lets actuallyt take a look at it:
Viable builds without Shadowplay:
Skullknight, Defiler, Abolisher, Templar, Dreambreaker (Tank and DD for some)
Battlemage, Cabalist, Demonologist, Revenant, Arcanist (Magic DD)
Archon (Tanky DD)
Cleric, Hierophant, Tomb Warden [Templar] (Support and Heal)
Paladin, Hexblade (Melee DD / support)
Viable builds with Shadowplay:
Primeval, Trickster, Stone Arrow (Archer DD)
Enigmatist, Spellsinger, Reaper, Daggerspell (Magic DD
Darkrunner, Blighter, Outrider, Shadowblade (Melee DD)
Confessor, Soothsayer (Healer DD)
(I didn't account for 1v1, group vs group and raid vs raid, it's all mixed)
Those are just out of my head. I probably forgot something but do you see a pattern? It's just DDs that utilize Shadowplay and basically always the same combination + a different third skill.
But you're not limited to it if you want, especially as a mage you can build a lot of builds without it.
So for damage dealers, you do have a point. It seems that there are a lot more viable DD combos WITH shadowplay than without it - but it's not binary. It's not either be DD and pick Shadowplay or play a non-DD class.
But in return there's also a few classes that would otherwise not be possible. There are 3 magical DDs with stealth and 2 viable Healers with DD-potential. And I'm 100% positive that there are many classes which haven't been yet discovered that don't utilize Shadowplay as well.
The biggest cut to non-Shadowplay builds btw was the Healing split. Before that, we had a few more classes without Shadowplay:
Edgewalker, Necromancer, Cultist, Justicar, Sorrowsong, Boneweaver, Shaman etc.
About GW2:
As I said, I do this comparison because it is the MMO I played prior to ArcheAge. I merely try to compare the way you build builds in those games.
EDIT:
Damn this post became huge as well lol. Sorry for that dude!
@Capped:
You don't get my point. You are complaining that people are picking Shadowplay or rather that TOO many pick Shadowplay.
I say: It's not because of the game but everyone wants to be the "cool damage dealer".
It's the same issue everyone wants to play Mid in DotA2/LoL. People want to be the cool guy in front.
There are a ton of builds not based on Shadowplay but they, most of the time, have nothing to do with being in front and dealing the damage. But thats what most people want, so naturally, they pick Shadowplay-based builds.
Shadowplay is just a great addition to damage-based builds. So is Songcraft for Support-Based builds, Defense/Auramancy/Vitalism for Tank-based builds and so on.
For one purpose, one thing is better than the other. Thats only natural and not bad design at all.
If you dont have a class that defines what basic type of character you are, how do you get around that? Im honestly interested how you'd solve this ^^
I don't mind that at all, as I said in my opinion it is just good design and fixes a lot of issues.
There are always going to be classes that fit well together and some that dont, but shadowplay is currently a must have in nearly everything and thats not right since it removes an entire third of the customization.
Since you keep saying it removes customization lets actuallyt take a look at it:
Viable builds without Shadowplay:
Skullknight, Defiler, Abolisher, Templar, Dreambreaker (Tank and DD for some)
Battlemage, Cabalist, Demonologist, Revenant, Arcanist (Magic DD)
Archon (Tanky DD)
Cleric, Hierophant, Tomb Warden [Templar] (Support and Heal)
Paladin, Hexblade (Melee DD / support)
Viable builds with Shadowplay:
Primeval, Trickster, Stone Arrow (Archer DD)
Enigmatist, Spellsinger, Reaper, Daggerspell (Magic DD
Darkrunner, Blighter, Outrider, Shadowblade (Melee DD)
Confessor, Soothsayer (Healer DD)
(I didn't account for 1v1, group vs group and raid vs raid, it's all mixed)
Those are just out of my head. I probably forgot something but do you see a pattern? It's just DDs that utilize Shadowplay and basically always the same combination + a different third skill.
But you're not limited to it if you want, especially as a mage you can build a lot of builds without it.
So for damage dealers, you do have a point. It seems that there are a lot more viable DD combos WITH shadowplay than without it - but it's not binary. It's not either be DD and pick Shadowplay or play a non-DD class.
But in return there's also a few classes that would otherwise not be possible. There are 3 magical DDs with stealth and 2 viable Healers with DD-potential. And I'm 100% positive that there are many classes which haven't been yet discovered that don't utilize Shadowplay as well.
The biggest cut to non-Shadowplay builds btw was the Healing split. Before that, we had a few more classes without Shadowplay:
Edgewalker, Necromancer, Cultist, Justicar, Sorrowsong, Boneweaver, Shaman etc.
About GW2:
As I said, I do this comparison because it is the MMO I played prior to ArcheAge. I merely try to compare the way you build builds in those games.
EDIT:
Damn this post became huge as well lol. Sorry for that dude!
Without knowing much about ArcheAge it seems it just boils down to sustain.
If you don't have the sustain to keep you alive go shadowplay as 3rd. And as always in scumbag-pvp you have A LOT of glass cannons thus alot of shadowplaying.
yep pretty much this. at the moment PvP is very burst dmg focused ( part of it is a inherent design flaw in AA ) . It's always the same though in every game. But as the game keep moving on and people get better gear and higher HP numbers the burst dmg builds will fade out for more group and sustain oriented builds.
btw I love my templar, tanks like a beast and does great healing. I am using plate armor at the moment ( only made it to level 35 so far ) and it's great to see all the cookie cutter physical dmg classes despair :D
I am playing as Harani to whoever it was that asked.
On September 21 2014 05:43 Gorsameth wrote:
That depends entirely on scaling.
If dmg scales faster then hp you will get the exact opposite. Which is for example what happened in WoW.
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2014 05:40 Skilledblob wrote:
yep pretty much this. at the moment PvP is very burst dmg focused ( part of it is a inherent design flaw in AA ) . It's always the same though in every game. But as the game keep moving on and people get better gear and higher HP numbers the burst dmg builds will fade out for more group and sustain oriented builds.
On September 21 2014 01:50 bluQ wrote:
Without knowing much about ArcheAge it seems it just boils down to sustain.
If you don't have the sustain to keep you alive go shadowplay as 3rd. And as always in scumbag-pvp you have A LOT of glass cannons thus alot of shadowplaying.
On September 21 2014 01:38 KeksX wrote:
@Capped:
You don't get my point. You are complaining that people are picking Shadowplay or rather that TOO many pick Shadowplay.
I say: It's not because of the game but everyone wants to be the "cool damage dealer".
It's the same issue everyone wants to play Mid in DotA2/LoL. People want to be the cool guy in front.
There are a ton of builds not based on Shadowplay but they, most of the time, have nothing to do with being in front and dealing the damage. But thats what most people want, so naturally, they pick Shadowplay-based builds.
Shadowplay is just a great addition to damage-based builds. So is Songcraft for Support-Based builds, Defense/Auramancy/Vitalism for Tank-based builds and so on.
For one purpose, one thing is better than the other. Thats only natural and not bad design at all.
I don't mind that at all, as I said in my opinion it is just good design and fixes a lot of issues.
Since you keep saying it removes customization lets actuallyt take a look at it:
Viable builds without Shadowplay:
Skullknight, Defiler, Abolisher, Templar, Dreambreaker (Tank and DD for some)
Battlemage, Cabalist, Demonologist, Revenant, Arcanist (Magic DD)
Archon (Tanky DD)
Cleric, Hierophant, Tomb Warden [Templar] (Support and Heal)
Paladin, Hexblade (Melee DD / support)
Viable builds with Shadowplay:
Primeval, Trickster, Stone Arrow (Archer DD)
Enigmatist, Spellsinger, Reaper, Daggerspell (Magic DD
Darkrunner, Blighter, Outrider, Shadowblade (Melee DD)
Confessor, Soothsayer (Healer DD)
(I didn't account for 1v1, group vs group and raid vs raid, it's all mixed)
Those are just out of my head. I probably forgot something but do you see a pattern? It's just DDs that utilize Shadowplay and basically always the same combination + a different third skill.
But you're not limited to it if you want, especially as a mage you can build a lot of builds without it.
So for damage dealers, you do have a point. It seems that there are a lot more viable DD combos WITH shadowplay than without it - but it's not binary. It's not either be DD and pick Shadowplay or play a non-DD class.
But in return there's also a few classes that would otherwise not be possible. There are 3 magical DDs with stealth and 2 viable Healers with DD-potential. And I'm 100% positive that there are many classes which haven't been yet discovered that don't utilize Shadowplay as well.
The biggest cut to non-Shadowplay builds btw was the Healing split. Before that, we had a few more classes without Shadowplay:
Edgewalker, Necromancer, Cultist, Justicar, Sorrowsong, Boneweaver, Shaman etc.
About GW2:
As I said, I do this comparison because it is the MMO I played prior to ArcheAge. I merely try to compare the way you build builds in those games.
EDIT:
Damn this post became huge as well lol. Sorry for that dude!
@Capped:
You don't get my point. You are complaining that people are picking Shadowplay or rather that TOO many pick Shadowplay.
I say: It's not because of the game but everyone wants to be the "cool damage dealer".
It's the same issue everyone wants to play Mid in DotA2/LoL. People want to be the cool guy in front.
There are a ton of builds not based on Shadowplay but they, most of the time, have nothing to do with being in front and dealing the damage. But thats what most people want, so naturally, they pick Shadowplay-based builds.
Shadowplay is just a great addition to damage-based builds. So is Songcraft for Support-Based builds, Defense/Auramancy/Vitalism for Tank-based builds and so on.
For one purpose, one thing is better than the other. Thats only natural and not bad design at all.
If you dont have a class that defines what basic type of character you are, how do you get around that? Im honestly interested how you'd solve this ^^
I don't mind that at all, as I said in my opinion it is just good design and fixes a lot of issues.
There are always going to be classes that fit well together and some that dont, but shadowplay is currently a must have in nearly everything and thats not right since it removes an entire third of the customization.
Since you keep saying it removes customization lets actuallyt take a look at it:
Viable builds without Shadowplay:
Skullknight, Defiler, Abolisher, Templar, Dreambreaker (Tank and DD for some)
Battlemage, Cabalist, Demonologist, Revenant, Arcanist (Magic DD)
Archon (Tanky DD)
Cleric, Hierophant, Tomb Warden [Templar] (Support and Heal)
Paladin, Hexblade (Melee DD / support)
Viable builds with Shadowplay:
Primeval, Trickster, Stone Arrow (Archer DD)
Enigmatist, Spellsinger, Reaper, Daggerspell (Magic DD
Darkrunner, Blighter, Outrider, Shadowblade (Melee DD)
Confessor, Soothsayer (Healer DD)
(I didn't account for 1v1, group vs group and raid vs raid, it's all mixed)
Those are just out of my head. I probably forgot something but do you see a pattern? It's just DDs that utilize Shadowplay and basically always the same combination + a different third skill.
But you're not limited to it if you want, especially as a mage you can build a lot of builds without it.
So for damage dealers, you do have a point. It seems that there are a lot more viable DD combos WITH shadowplay than without it - but it's not binary. It's not either be DD and pick Shadowplay or play a non-DD class.
But in return there's also a few classes that would otherwise not be possible. There are 3 magical DDs with stealth and 2 viable Healers with DD-potential. And I'm 100% positive that there are many classes which haven't been yet discovered that don't utilize Shadowplay as well.
The biggest cut to non-Shadowplay builds btw was the Healing split. Before that, we had a few more classes without Shadowplay:
Edgewalker, Necromancer, Cultist, Justicar, Sorrowsong, Boneweaver, Shaman etc.
About GW2:
As I said, I do this comparison because it is the MMO I played prior to ArcheAge. I merely try to compare the way you build builds in those games.
EDIT:
Damn this post became huge as well lol. Sorry for that dude!
Without knowing much about ArcheAge it seems it just boils down to sustain.
If you don't have the sustain to keep you alive go shadowplay as 3rd. And as always in scumbag-pvp you have A LOT of glass cannons thus alot of shadowplaying.
yep pretty much this. at the moment PvP is very burst dmg focused ( part of it is a inherent design flaw in AA ) . It's always the same though in every game. But as the game keep moving on and people get better gear and higher HP numbers the burst dmg builds will fade out for more group and sustain oriented builds.
That depends entirely on scaling.
If dmg scales faster then hp you will get the exact opposite. Which is for example what happened in WoW.
There are plenty of mechanics to avoid the glasscannon-meta. But I guess this is not in the hands of Tirion too much.
I for myself also rolled a Templar (pretty much using this as a baseline. I love the idea of just not dying but well we will see^^.
