On September 28 2012 20:19 bgx wrote: nothing beats bugged molten core runs in 2004 and open pvp pre battleground
And you know, reason for open pvp, was that there was no constant "carrot on a stick" that we have today, and with that I mean, the CONSTANT pressure that is put on us, to get better gear, all the time. Before, we could relax a lot more, if you wanted too. Sure there was a pressure to farm resistance gear, and reputation, but you could be in a more relaxed guild and still make decent progress, and have a great time outside raids, like just pvp in the world. Today its like Blizzard draw you a linear map, do THIS, and THIS, end of story
On September 28 2012 20:19 bgx wrote: nothing beats bugged molten core runs in 2004 and open pvp pre battleground
And you know, reason for open pvp, was that there was no constant "carrot on a stick" that we have today, and with that I mean, the CONSTANT pressure that is put on us, to get better gear, all the time. Before, we could relax a lot more, if you wanted too. Sure there was a pressure to farm resistance gear, and reputation, but you could be in a more relaxed guild and still make decent progress, and have a great time outside raids, like just pvp in the world. Today its like Blizzard draw you a linear map, do THIS, and THIS, end of story
That’s not true... What killed open PvP was flying mounts.
I had my coolest open PvP moments at places like...
Felwood where you used to farm these runes and various other "farm spots"... From 1 on 1 it went to 2 on 2... 5on5... 10 v 10... And Suddenly everyone online from my and the other guys PvE-Guilds were there beating the crap out of each other in their carebear speccs in carebear gear (T2+) ^^. Actual farming there normally only took like 15 minutes because the mobs were just lvl 50... But making sure that you’re the only one farming there could take an hour :D.
Then suddenly... Flying Mounts.. Now you never ever have to fight again unless you really, really want to (except for levitate, dotting/instants, levitate again... huar :D).
On September 28 2012 20:19 bgx wrote: nothing beats bugged molten core runs in 2004 and open pvp pre battleground
And you know, reason for open pvp, was that there was no constant "carrot on a stick" that we have today, and with that I mean, the CONSTANT pressure that is put on us, to get better gear, all the time. Before, we could relax a lot more, if you wanted too. Sure there was a pressure to farm resistance gear, and reputation, but you could be in a more relaxed guild and still make decent progress, and have a great time outside raids, like just pvp in the world. Today its like Blizzard draw you a linear map, do THIS, and THIS, end of story
That’s not true... What killed open PvP was flying mounts.
I had my coolest open PvP moments at places like...
Felwood where you used to farm these runes and various other "farm spots"... From 1 on 1 it went to 2 on 2... 5on5... 10 v 10... And Suddenly everyone online from my and the other guys PvE-Guilds were there beating the crap out of each other in their carebear speccs in carebear gear (T2+) ^^. Actual farming there normally only took like 15 minutes because the mobs were just lvl 50... But making sure that you’re the only one farming there could take an hour :D.
Then suddenly... Flying Mounts.. Now you never ever have to fight again unless you really, really want to (except for levitate, dotting/instants, levitate again... huar :D).
Isle of QD in BC was a great pvp place partially because of no flying mounts in a secluded Daily Quest Area.
On September 28 2012 20:19 bgx wrote: nothing beats bugged molten core runs in 2004 and open pvp pre battleground
And you know, reason for open pvp, was that there was no constant "carrot on a stick" that we have today, and with that I mean, the CONSTANT pressure that is put on us, to get better gear, all the time. Before, we could relax a lot more, if you wanted too. Sure there was a pressure to farm resistance gear, and reputation, but you could be in a more relaxed guild and still make decent progress, and have a great time outside raids, like just pvp in the world. Today its like Blizzard draw you a linear map, do THIS, and THIS, end of story
That’s not true... What killed open PvP was flying mounts.
I had my coolest open PvP moments at places like...
Felwood where you used to farm these runes and various other "farm spots"... From 1 on 1 it went to 2 on 2... 5on5... 10 v 10... And Suddenly everyone online from my and the other guys PvE-Guilds were there beating the crap out of each other in their carebear speccs in carebear gear (T2+) ^^. Actual farming there normally only took like 15 minutes because the mobs were just lvl 50... But making sure that you’re the only one farming there could take an hour :D.
Then suddenly... Flying Mounts.. Now you never ever have to fight again unless you really, really want to (except for levitate, dotting/instants, levitate again... huar :D).
Yes I forgot about those flying shits, but it was not the sole reason, as Blizzard also implemented this dungeon queue, which eventually led to never leave the safe city ever again, except those dailies which are overcrowded at start, then gets real boring. Felwood was amazing yes, but also the paths that led to instances such as MC/BWL etc.
I tried my Priest, level 85, just talents, and it feels very good to play actually, I especially love the mind flay glyph that make you walk a lot faster, and the stealth that leaves your true form behind, really awesome and engaging, but again, I have only tried it, as I have not purchased this game. I am on the fence, but I'll think I'll try out MoP, and just play it as a single player game, cause the money to buy is veery low, the time that it takes is quite a lot.
On September 28 2012 20:19 bgx wrote: nothing beats bugged molten core runs in 2004 and open pvp pre battleground
And you know, reason for open pvp, was that there was no constant "carrot on a stick" that we have today, and with that I mean, the CONSTANT pressure that is put on us, to get better gear, all the time. Before, we could relax a lot more, if you wanted too. Sure there was a pressure to farm resistance gear, and reputation, but you could be in a more relaxed guild and still make decent progress, and have a great time outside raids, like just pvp in the world. Today its like Blizzard draw you a linear map, do THIS, and THIS, end of story
That’s not true... What killed open PvP was flying mounts.
I had my coolest open PvP moments at places like...
Felwood where you used to farm these runes and various other "farm spots"... From 1 on 1 it went to 2 on 2... 5on5... 10 v 10... And Suddenly everyone online from my and the other guys PvE-Guilds were there beating the crap out of each other in their carebear speccs in carebear gear (T2+) ^^. Actual farming there normally only took like 15 minutes because the mobs were just lvl 50... But making sure that you’re the only one farming there could take an hour :D.
Then suddenly... Flying Mounts.. Now you never ever have to fight again unless you really, really want to (except for levitate, dotting/instants, levitate again... huar :D).
Elemental plateau in nagrand was pretty good.. I remember bumping heads with lots of others farming their primals.. And then next thing you know its an 8v8 battle.
Auchindoun wasn't bad either.. Like the instance area near Shadow labs, etc. But after Burning Crusade.. World PvP pretty much went to shit.
On September 28 2012 21:32 blug wrote: zzz, not buying MoP, by what I've heard Blizzard have not changed there philosophy concerning casuals.
Funny enough even people that dont know they need to be hit capped to dps deserve to see content too, but i dont see how that affects your game play. They created challenge modes which makes me happy, raids are supposed to be hard and they will be for the first tier at least, theres always arena and rbg's and world pvp is quite fun in pandaland gonna love killing the raids doing the world bosses. You just skip on the pokemon, "heroic" dungeon, scenarios and what not crap, what i plan on doing .
On September 28 2012 21:32 blug wrote: zzz, not buying MoP, by what I've heard Blizzard have not changed there philosophy concerning casuals.
Funny enough even people that dont know they need to be hit capped to dps deserve to see content too, but i dont see how that affects your game play. They created challenge modes which makes me happy, raids are supposed to be hard and they will be for the first tier at least, theres always arena and rbg's and world pvp is quite fun in pandaland gonna love killing the raids doing the world bosses. You just skip on the pokemon, "heroic" dungeon, scenarios and what not crap, what i plan on doing .
sure they deserve to see it, but they don't necessarily deserve to clear it
On September 28 2012 21:32 blug wrote: zzz, not buying MoP, by what I've heard Blizzard have not changed there philosophy concerning casuals.
Funny enough even people that dont know they need to be hit capped to dps deserve to see content too, but i dont see how that affects your game play. They created challenge modes which makes me happy, raids are supposed to be hard and they will be for the first tier at least, theres always arena and rbg's and world pvp is quite fun in pandaland gonna love killing the raids doing the world bosses. You just skip on the pokemon, "heroic" dungeon, scenarios and what not crap, what i plan on doing .
It's the same as WotLK and Cataclysm, they were shit expansions and I didn't find them fun. Heroic raids were boring because you could complete them ez mode on lower difficulties. It's dumb and simply not fun. Ulduar was basically the only thing I liked from those expansions.
On September 28 2012 21:32 blug wrote: zzz, not buying MoP, by what I've heard Blizzard have not changed there philosophy concerning casuals.
Funny enough even people that dont know they need to be hit capped to dps deserve to see content too, but i dont see how that affects your game play. They created challenge modes which makes me happy, raids are supposed to be hard and they will be for the first tier at least, theres always arena and rbg's and world pvp is quite fun in pandaland gonna love killing the raids doing the world bosses. You just skip on the pokemon, "heroic" dungeon, scenarios and what not crap, what i plan on doing .
sure they deserve to see it, but they don't necessarily deserve to clear it
How does the fact that some noobs clear DS on LFR affect your life in any way? I hate LFR and I dont plan on doing it(I didn't play most of cata) unless some guild wants me to, but I'll stick to a good 25m guild that does Hard modes and Challenge modes, seems like a good way of staying out of the "casual" content (which is everything else, yes). I'm constantly surprised by the amount of people that play this game and how seriously bad some of them are, but hey if they want to clear content in a very easy mode then i say let them, I'm sure they feel the same way I do after clearing a hard mode believe it or not thanks to that.
On September 28 2012 21:32 blug wrote: zzz, not buying MoP, by what I've heard Blizzard have not changed there philosophy concerning casuals.
Funny enough even people that dont know they need to be hit capped to dps deserve to see content too, but i dont see how that affects your game play. They created challenge modes which makes me happy, raids are supposed to be hard and they will be for the first tier at least, theres always arena and rbg's and world pvp is quite fun in pandaland gonna love killing the raids doing the world bosses. You just skip on the pokemon, "heroic" dungeon, scenarios and what not crap, what i plan on doing .
Do people deserve to see content if they play casually? Sure. Do they deserve to see content without putting any effort in? Now that is the big question, and what "any effort"(or maybe rather enough effort) is.
About how it effects your game, you do realize that WoW is actually an online game(and even a MMO at that). Everything people do on same realm(and you could even argue on different realms) effects the way people play the game. Most of what a single person can do is just like a drop in the ocean, but the way Blizzard designs the game with all the welfare epics, casual friendly content, 10 man instances being exactly like 25 mans, this all effects everyone on the realm, even if they don't do the casual stuff.
About exactly how it does effect the game is: If you played in vanilla and weren't part of the top guilds on your server, I'm sure you remember seeing those badasses with their awesome gear, putting out their awesome dps. Now what do the hardcore people have? A reskinned version of a casual weapon that no one needs to put any effort into getting. Furtheremore it doesn't even do bad dps(and for most, the dps rotations have also been made easier). There is simply very little prestige left in playing the game, which is a certain aspect of why people raid(I mean RPGs are about advancing/gearing your character, but if nobody cares, what for?). So why do I raid? Because of the people, first kills don't really matter to me anymore, because why should they? I've killed the boss anyway, now I just killed it while jumping on one leg.
On September 28 2012 21:32 blug wrote: zzz, not buying MoP, by what I've heard Blizzard have not changed there philosophy concerning casuals.
Funny enough even people that dont know they need to be hit capped to dps deserve to see content too, but i dont see how that affects your game play. They created challenge modes which makes me happy, raids are supposed to be hard and they will be for the first tier at least, theres always arena and rbg's and world pvp is quite fun in pandaland gonna love killing the raids doing the world bosses. You just skip on the pokemon, "heroic" dungeon, scenarios and what not crap, what i plan on doing .
Do people deserve to see content if they play casually? Sure. Do they deserve to see content without putting any effort in? Now that is the big question, and what "any effort"(or maybe rather enough effort) is.
About how it effects your game, you do realize that WoW is actually an online game(and even a MMO at that). Everything people do on same realm(and you could even argue on different realms) effects the way people play the game. Most of what a single person can do is just like a drop in the ocean, but the way Blizzard designs the game with all the welfare epics, casual friendly content, 10 man instances being exactly like 25 mans, this all effects everyone on the realm, even if they don't do the casual stuff.
About exactly how it does effect the game is: If you played in vanilla and weren't part of the top guilds on your server, I'm sure you remember seeing those badasses with their awesome gear, putting out their awesome dps. Now what do the hardcore people have? A reskinned version of a casual weapon that no one needs to put any effort into getting. Furtheremore it doesn't even do bad dps(and for most, the dps rotations have also been made easier). There is simply very little prestige left in playing the game, which is a certain aspect of why people raid(I mean RPGs are about advancing/gearing your character, but if nobody cares, what for?). So why do I raid? Because of the people, first kills don't really matter to me anymore, because why should they? I've killed the boss anyway, now I just killed it while jumping on one leg.
Probs been spammed to death but this video speaks my mind...
Mists of Pandaria sales are very far off Cata sales. The problem with releasing lower quality games than expected, like Cata and D3, is that future sales are hurt since you've damaged your brand. Doubling down on casual philosophy also isn't stopping the subscription loss trend. In fact, after the initial bump fades and people unsubscribe again, the trend will accelerate because even less people are buying MoP to begin with.
On September 28 2012 21:32 blug wrote: zzz, not buying MoP, by what I've heard Blizzard have not changed there philosophy concerning casuals.
Funny enough even people that dont know they need to be hit capped to dps deserve to see content too, but i dont see how that affects your game play. They created challenge modes which makes me happy, raids are supposed to be hard and they will be for the first tier at least, theres always arena and rbg's and world pvp is quite fun in pandaland gonna love killing the raids doing the world bosses. You just skip on the pokemon, "heroic" dungeon, scenarios and what not crap, what i plan on doing .
Do people deserve to see content if they play casually? Sure. Do they deserve to see content without putting any effort in? Now that is the big question, and what "any effort"(or maybe rather enough effort) is.
About how it effects your game, you do realize that WoW is actually an online game(and even a MMO at that). Everything people do on same realm(and you could even argue on different realms) effects the way people play the game. Most of what a single person can do is just like a drop in the ocean, but the way Blizzard designs the game with all the welfare epics, casual friendly content, 10 man instances being exactly like 25 mans, this all effects everyone on the realm, even if they don't do the casual stuff.
About exactly how it does effect the game is: If you played in vanilla and weren't part of the top guilds on your server, I'm sure you remember seeing those badasses with their awesome gear, putting out their awesome dps. Now what do the hardcore people have? A reskinned version of a casual weapon that no one needs to put any effort into getting. Furtheremore it doesn't even do bad dps(and for most, the dps rotations have also been made easier). There is simply very little prestige left in playing the game, which is a certain aspect of why people raid(I mean RPGs are about advancing/gearing your character, but if nobody cares, what for?). So why do I raid? Because of the people, first kills don't really matter to me anymore, because why should they? I've killed the boss anyway, now I just killed it while jumping on one leg.
Probs been spammed to death but this video speaks my mind...
That's a good vid, and he expresses my thoughts way better than I ever could. I still remember every kill from MC to clearing AQ40(quit raiding in vanilla after that due to job). What do I remember from WotLK? Wanting to smother someone when a person DCed on an Immortal run.
On September 28 2012 21:32 blug wrote: zzz, not buying MoP, by what I've heard Blizzard have not changed there philosophy concerning casuals.
Funny enough even people that dont know they need to be hit capped to dps deserve to see content too, but i dont see how that affects your game play. They created challenge modes which makes me happy, raids are supposed to be hard and they will be for the first tier at least, theres always arena and rbg's and world pvp is quite fun in pandaland gonna love killing the raids doing the world bosses. You just skip on the pokemon, "heroic" dungeon, scenarios and what not crap, what i plan on doing .
Do people deserve to see content if they play casually? Sure. Do they deserve to see content without putting any effort in? Now that is the big question, and what "any effort"(or maybe rather enough effort) is.
About how it effects your game, you do realize that WoW is actually an online game(and even a MMO at that). Everything people do on same realm(and you could even argue on different realms) effects the way people play the game. Most of what a single person can do is just like a drop in the ocean, but the way Blizzard designs the game with all the welfare epics, casual friendly content, 10 man instances being exactly like 25 mans, this all effects everyone on the realm, even if they don't do the casual stuff.
About exactly how it does effect the game is: If you played in vanilla and weren't part of the top guilds on your server, I'm sure you remember seeing those badasses with their awesome gear, putting out their awesome dps. Now what do the hardcore people have? A reskinned version of a casual weapon that no one needs to put any effort into getting. Furtheremore it doesn't even do bad dps(and for most, the dps rotations have also been made easier). There is simply very little prestige left in playing the game, which is a certain aspect of why people raid(I mean RPGs are about advancing/gearing your character, but if nobody cares, what for?). So why do I raid? Because of the people, first kills don't really matter to me anymore, because why should they? I've killed the boss anyway, now I just killed it while jumping on one leg.
Probs been spammed to death but this video speaks my mind...
I didn't start raiding until Wrath of the Lich King but I can see where you and the video are coming from. There really is no motivation to really work for raiding anymore since Blizzard makes it so easy for people to see the content.
Yeah, part of raiding awesomeness was finally "SEEING" Chromaggus, Nefarian, Vashj, Illidan (which was in fact a horribly boring fight for everyone except the 2 Firetanks) or whatever other Boss you worked your ass of to get past.
Now you just jump in there.. pewpewthegroundisburningwhocarespewpew...
That feeling is totally lost and Heroics don't bring that in.
Btw: When thinking about it, the very first "Hardmode" for a Boss was actually the Bugtrio in AQ40 and they didn't even need to fundamentally change it's mechanics or put in a ton of extra abilities... It was just flexible encounter design, as it should be.
Btw2: You did not need to be Hitcapped ever. It was just the best stat for some classes, not even all Spellcasters had the main goal of being HItcapped because other DMG stats were more important/better... And i highly doubt even if no one in the whole raid would have the hitcap that this would be the reason for a boss to fall or not (aside from some really bad luck with diecreolls on an else perfect try). I raided with like 12% hit in Cata as Spriest because other stuff was plain better (in maths and in play if you could "deal with it" and don't let a miss throw you off...)
On September 28 2012 23:31 NovaTheFeared wrote: Mists of Pandaria sales are very far off Cata sales. The problem with releasing lower quality games than expected, like Cata and D3, is that future sales are hurt since you've damaged your brand. Doubling down on casual philosophy also isn't stopping the subscription loss trend. In fact, after the initial bump fades and people unsubscribe again, the trend will accelerate because even less people are buying MoP to begin with.
I just stumbled across this article and I have to admit that I find it very surprising how low sales for MoP have been:
The fourth expansion has sold around 600,000 to 700,000 copies at retail since its launch on Tuesday
Speaking to Venturebeat, Lazard explained how each new World of Warcraft expansion has outsold its predecessors. Mists of Pandaria sales, however, are down 60% from the previous expansion pack, Cataclysm, which has sold 3.3 million copies since its December 2010 launch.
Admittedly, it's only been a few days since it launched, but the figures for Cataclysm appear to be accurate, in that it sold 3.3 million copies up to its release date (SOURCE: http://daeity.blogspot.ca/2010/12/cataclysm-sales-were-actually-bad.html, an interesting read in and of itself). Furthermore, it's only taking into account retail sales, but the article also states that:
Lazard analyst Atul Bagga doesn't believe Mists of Pandaria's digital sales will make up for its poor retail performance.
In context, I think ~700,000 retail copies sold is an excellent figure when Blizzard tries so hard to push the digital download, but the expectation that combined sales figures still won't approach those of Cataclysm is troubling.
I'm not sure how well this bodes for the game, but I wish I could say I was surprised. There is so little challenging, meaningful content for the average player outside of heroic raids. I'll be interested to see how sales measure up over the next few weeks, at which point I will imagine most devoted players will have bought the expansion.
I basically stopped playing after Wrath--killing the Lich King felt like a satisfying "end" for the story, plus when Cata hit I wasn't really interested in levelling back up through revamped zones, and goofy Indiana Jones parody doesn't appeal to me, so there just wasn't that much that made me want to play.
A friend convinced me to dive back in for MoP and for the most part I'm really enjoying it. Things I like:
1.) The Monk is pretty fun. At first I was like "this pretty much plays like a slower rogue" on the DPS spec,but once I got the Flying Kick and the Hadouken talent its started to feel a lot more fun and "kung fu"ish. I also really like the Roll mechanics. The Tank spec is fun too, feels very different from the other Tanks I've played. I liked the starting zone, and now I'm finally seeing the revamped Cata zones on the main continents, which are...ok. Nice looking, but way too much shitty parody for my taste. It seems like basically all these zones have at least one major questline built around a mediocre tv or movie spoof.
2.) I like that more effort has been put into actual flavor. I don't really give a shit about Pokemon, but I do like that the world has lots of actual critters. It feels more alive. Similarly, Mobs in Pandaria seems much more tied to the world. Like if there are some raiders coming off a ship, they'll actually spawn on the ship or gangplank and walk off, instead of just appearing randomly in locations that happen to be near to the ship. And once Mobs do spawn, they seem to have a wider range of animations/behavior--humanoids following patrol patterns that make at least a little sense, animals doing different things (e.g. if you see a couple tigers, one might be sleeping while another wanders around, instead of them both doing the exact same set of animations).
3.) I much prefer the new talents and glyphs. Having to always choose a boring +x% to damage instead of an actually interesting ability sucked, and it happened all the time in the old talent trees--it makes so much more sense to bake the +damage talents and shit that everyone takes anyway right into the Spec, and focus on making talents a.) interesting/fun to use and b.) an actual choice. Same goes for Glyphs. If a glyph is "mandatory", as many used to be, just bake the effect into the spec. The new system isn't perfect (some glyphs and talents are still pretty clearly better than others) but it does overall seem to present more interesting choices. I also really like the minor flavor glyphs--obviously they have no impact on effectiveness, but being able to conjure familiars, cast illusions and speak other languages helps my Mage feel more like he's got actual magic as opposed to just being walking artillery. I haven't hit level 90 yet on any of my characters, so I don't have a sense yet of how those talents will feel in practice, but thus far I find my Mage and Warlock are both way more fun. The new Warlock powers in particular are really badass in PvE at least--this is how playing a Warlock should have felt from the beginning. And its nice to not feel, so far anyway, that my Mage is screwing himself by going Fire--the new fire rotations feels way less RNG dependant and gimmicky.
4.) Pandaria is really beautifully designed. Its amazing what Blizzard can still get out of this old engine, because Pandaria really does give me a sense of being a beautiful place that I actually want to explore. And I like that in hubs, the NPCs aren't all the same level. There's just a much better sense of this being an actual place rather than just another stop in the theme park.
EPT
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