On March 18 2015 11:21 Probemicro wrote: i think mobs die too fast in burn prolif builds to use HoT-coh-pcoc-assmark anyway. so dont use that.
staff isnt good for crit, you are better off using crit dagger+shield which provides more survivability also this shield will be immensely good for generating power charges along with ass mark http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Jaws_of_Agony
put icenova+multitrap+coh+assasinmark on deerstalker, you will generate power charges SUPER quick on mobs AND single target(which HoT cannot do), plus with EE taken alternating the two trap sets(icenova-fire-icenova) will lower the resistance for nice prolif dmg.
btw for levelling just do yourself a favour and get a searing touch/lifesprig and just use lameblast, super quick levelling since some of the passives that benefit firetrap also apply for lameblast. switch only to crit firetrap when you reach maps since by that time you will then have enough crit chance to make it work well.
The assassin's mark in that build is only for charge generation and the method you listed is far better since it also utilizes EE. I'd much rather see PCoC in your links instead of CoH+Assassin's mark for charge generation if you're going that route.
CoH+Elemental Weakness or Flamability could be nice though if you have the shield for power charge generation.
On March 18 2015 11:21 Probemicro wrote: i think mobs die too fast in burn prolif builds to use HoT-coh-pcoc-assmark anyway. so dont use that.
staff isnt good for crit, you are better off using crit dagger+shield which provides more survivability also this shield will be immensely good for generating power charges along with ass mark http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Jaws_of_Agony
put icenova+multitrap+coh+assasinmark on deerstalker, you will generate power charges SUPER quick on mobs AND single target(which HoT cannot do), plus with EE taken alternating the two trap sets(icenova-fire-icenova) will lower the resistance for nice prolif dmg.
btw for levelling just do yourself a favour and get a searing touch/lifesprig and just use lameblast, super quick levelling since some of the passives that benefit firetrap also apply for lameblast. switch only to crit firetrap when you reach maps since by that time you will then have enough crit chance to make it work well.
The assassin's mark in that build is only for charge generation and the method you listed is far better since it also utilizes EE. I'd much rather see PCoC in your links instead of CoH+Assassin's mark for charge generation if you're going that route.
CoH+Elemental Weakness or Flamability could be nice though if you have the shield for power charge generation.
pcoc doesnt work when linked directly to traps. since the power charge goes to the (dead) trap.
NEVER use coh+flammability for crit fire trap, you DO NOT want to ignite by normal ignite chance (which will be boosted by flammability) since you will have shitty dmg, you want to ignite by crit where all your crit multiplier taken will benefit the damage.
On March 18 2015 11:21 Probemicro wrote: i think mobs die too fast in burn prolif builds to use HoT-coh-pcoc-assmark anyway. so dont use that.
staff isnt good for crit, you are better off using crit dagger+shield which provides more survivability also this shield will be immensely good for generating power charges along with ass mark http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Jaws_of_Agony
put icenova+multitrap+coh+assasinmark on deerstalker, you will generate power charges SUPER quick on mobs AND single target(which HoT cannot do), plus with EE taken alternating the two trap sets(icenova-fire-icenova) will lower the resistance for nice prolif dmg.
btw for levelling just do yourself a favour and get a searing touch/lifesprig and just use lameblast, super quick levelling since some of the passives that benefit firetrap also apply for lameblast. switch only to crit firetrap when you reach maps since by that time you will then have enough crit chance to make it work well.
The assassin's mark in that build is only for charge generation and the method you listed is far better since it also utilizes EE. I'd much rather see PCoC in your links instead of CoH+Assassin's mark for charge generation if you're going that route.
CoH+Elemental Weakness or Flamability could be nice though if you have the shield for power charge generation.
pcoc doesnt work when linked directly to traps. since the power charge goes to the (dead) trap.
NEVER use coh+flammability for crit fire trap, you DO NOT want to ignite by normal ignite chance (which will be boosted by flammability) since you will have shitty dmg, you want to ignite by crit where all your crit multiplier taken will benefit the damage.
Upon further research curse on hit doesn't work with traps at all so ^_^
The monster takes damage from the best ignite and since you're profiling the best ignite will be on everything so I'm not sure why flammability would be bad. If you end up with all low damage non-crits then nothing is dying and you're going to recast exactly as if you weren't using flammability.
On March 18 2015 11:21 Probemicro wrote: i think mobs die too fast in burn prolif builds to use HoT-coh-pcoc-assmark anyway. so dont use that.
staff isnt good for crit, you are better off using crit dagger+shield which provides more survivability also this shield will be immensely good for generating power charges along with ass mark http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Jaws_of_Agony
put icenova+multitrap+coh+assasinmark on deerstalker, you will generate power charges SUPER quick on mobs AND single target(which HoT cannot do), plus with EE taken alternating the two trap sets(icenova-fire-icenova) will lower the resistance for nice prolif dmg.
btw for levelling just do yourself a favour and get a searing touch/lifesprig and just use lameblast, super quick levelling since some of the passives that benefit firetrap also apply for lameblast. switch only to crit firetrap when you reach maps since by that time you will then have enough crit chance to make it work well.
The assassin's mark in that build is only for charge generation and the method you listed is far better since it also utilizes EE. I'd much rather see PCoC in your links instead of CoH+Assassin's mark for charge generation if you're going that route.
CoH+Elemental Weakness or Flamability could be nice though if you have the shield for power charge generation.
pcoc doesnt work when linked directly to traps. since the power charge goes to the (dead) trap.
NEVER use coh+flammability for crit fire trap, you DO NOT want to ignite by normal ignite chance (which will be boosted by flammability) since you will have shitty dmg, you want to ignite by crit where all your crit multiplier taken will benefit the damage.
Upon further research curse on hit doesn't work with traps at all so ^_^
The monster takes damage from the best ignite and since you're profiling the best ignite will be on everything so I'm not sure why flammability would be bad.
you dont want to roll the bad ignite and have to waste time throwing traps again. theres a limit of 3 and its not like regular spell skills when u can spam at will. at lvl20 flammability its 14%+5% innate =19% which is 1 in 5 hits without crit. you get something like noignite-noignite-badignite and you have to wait another second for trap to regen. ideally its best to minimize the chance, ele weakness quality gives more resist lowering anyway which is much better for crit ignite.
BUT anyway ok didnt know coh doesnt affect trap, fucking bs.
On March 18 2015 11:21 Probemicro wrote: i think mobs die too fast in burn prolif builds to use HoT-coh-pcoc-assmark anyway. so dont use that.
staff isnt good for crit, you are better off using crit dagger+shield which provides more survivability also this shield will be immensely good for generating power charges along with ass mark http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Jaws_of_Agony
put icenova+multitrap+coh+assasinmark on deerstalker, you will generate power charges SUPER quick on mobs AND single target(which HoT cannot do), plus with EE taken alternating the two trap sets(icenova-fire-icenova) will lower the resistance for nice prolif dmg.
btw for levelling just do yourself a favour and get a searing touch/lifesprig and just use lameblast, super quick levelling since some of the passives that benefit firetrap also apply for lameblast. switch only to crit firetrap when you reach maps since by that time you will then have enough crit chance to make it work well.
The assassin's mark in that build is only for charge generation and the method you listed is far better since it also utilizes EE. I'd much rather see PCoC in your links instead of CoH+Assassin's mark for charge generation if you're going that route.
CoH+Elemental Weakness or Flamability could be nice though if you have the shield for power charge generation.
pcoc doesnt work when linked directly to traps. since the power charge goes to the (dead) trap.
NEVER use coh+flammability for crit fire trap, you DO NOT want to ignite by normal ignite chance (which will be boosted by flammability) since you will have shitty dmg, you want to ignite by crit where all your crit multiplier taken will benefit the damage.
Upon further research curse on hit doesn't work with traps at all so ^_^
The monster takes damage from the best ignite and since you're profiling the best ignite will be on everything so I'm not sure why flammability would be bad.
you dont want to roll the bad ignite and have to waste time throwing traps again. theres a limit of 3 and its not like regular spell skills when u can spam at will. at lvl20 flammability its 14%+5% innate =19% which is 1 in 5 hits.
I throw a trap. Version A I'm using flammability, version b I'm not.
Version A: The trap doesn't crit, but flammability ignites. I need to rethrow because it doesn't do enough damage to kill things (or the additional damage from flammability may push it over, but that is unlikely).
Version B: The trap doesn't crit so no ignite. I need to rethrow because it doesn't do enough damage to kill things.
Version A: I crit and it ignites and kills everything.
Version B: I crit and it ignites and kills everything.
The only difference is that flammability increases all your damage assuming the monster isn't overcap fire resist. You don't lose the crit roll if flammability rolls an ignite. That ignite chance only matters on non-crits. Maybe it is a visual annoyance because you throw traps until you see fire, but then that fire doesn't kill anything. It isn't a damage loss though and there is no such thing as a rolling a bad ignite.
I agree with your edit that ele weakness is better because it adds more damage though(although only with quality; better for parties regardless). You're only adding flammability in a dual curse setup. I never realized assassin's mark was multiplicitive. That is pretty good.
So in a crit build, with say a low crit spell like Arc, Assasin's Mark beats Ele Weakness? I guess so but getting dual Curse sounds pretty mandatory then because no resistance reduction curse sounds questionable for me.
On my Freezing Pulse char I actually used quality Ele Weakness plus Frostbite and I use a 5L with PCOC so that my crit chance is like 50% anyway because FP has high base crit.
But I guess with spells with like 5-6% crit or less that might change because of the flat crit from Assasin's Mark helps those a lot?
on mobs with little/medium resist i would imagine assassin mark will always be better, AM give multiplicative MORE dmg bonus and additive crit chance while lowering resist even further when the mob already has low resist would only additively increase the dmg.
double ele curse would only be better for something with crazy overcapped resist, which you dont really find most of the time unless you are doing ele resist maps
On March 18 2015 07:06 Miragee wrote: There was even a guy that played with a EB/CI build and only used high evasion to evade the projectile and killed Atziri without dying. So yeah.
Rofl that's crazy. On a semi-unrelated note, when people do atziri early on in leagues do they party for it? Running all the auras you need should be substantially easier with more than 1 player. Ofcourse sharing drops and portals complicates things, but with how profitable atziri farming (supposedly) is, it should be worth it right?
You can party for the pre-atziri bosses if you so desire. The catch with Atziri is that she will cast one double-flame blast per player (see for instance this video).
On March 18 2015 16:10 HolydaKing wrote: So in a crit build, with say a low crit spell like Arc, Assasin's Mark beats Ele Weakness? I guess so but getting dual Curse sounds pretty mandatory then because no resistance reduction curse sounds questionable for me.
On my Freezing Pulse char I actually used quality Ele Weakness plus Frostbite and I use a 5L with PCOC so that my crit chance is like 50% anyway because FP has high base crit.
But I guess with spells with like 5-6% crit or less that might change because of the flat crit from Assasin's Mark helps those a lot?
It's really hard to math out resistance changes because of variable monster resistance (plus you probably have penetration from the tree that I'm not accounting for). In the best scenario you'd be reducing a monster from 75% resistance to 28%. That's almost tripling your damage, but in practice is almost never going to happen. In the worst case you're going to be reducing an overcap mob which is still capped after the curse and results in no damage increase. Reduced curse effectiveness on bosses and bosses having higher resistances means this situation isn't unlikely. Boss damage is also the ideal metric because trash mobs are going to melt regardless.
Assassin's mark with say 30 chance and 300 damage base is going to increase your crit chance to 40 and 420 damage. With these numbers you're seeing 42.5% more damage from assassin's mark. That's equivalent to an overcapped mob being reduced to about 65% resistance. The more crit chance/damage you get the better this number will be which is why Problemico said any crit build should be using assassin's mark. The more crit you have the harder it is for resistance curses to catch up.
In a party setting, there should be higher gains from elemental weakness than assassin's mark unless everyone is using crit builds or the non-crit builds deal only physical damage. If you account for penetration the numbers swing farther into the assassin's mark superior camp.
If you don't have lightning penetration linked to your arc, I would definitely suggest elemental weakness over assassin's mark, simply because its greatest damage boost works against lightning resistant enemies, which ordinarily would take you the most time to kill.
With assassin's mark, your damage against both nonresistant enemies, which you destroy relatively quickly, and nonresistant enemies, which you destroy relatively slowly, is boosted the same way. So nonresistant enemies are now destroyed even more quickly, while nonresistant enemies are destroyed a bit less slowly.
But with elemental weakness, your damage against nonresistant enemies is boosted relatively slightly, while your damage against resistant enemies is greatly amplified. So elemental weakness is strongest against the enemies which would take the most time to kill, which should smooth out and speed up your overall killing rate.
If you dual curse, pair assassin's mark with elemental weakness, rather than conductivity, as probemicro says, "lowering resist even further when the mob already has low resist would only additively increase the dmg".
I do wonder how much GGG will shake things up along with Act 4, since the skill design notes indicates they're concerned that even altering Enduring Cry to not be a spell (and thus not allowing it to proc with CwDT) might surprise older players. Maybe the shakeup will just be like the Harbinger bow change, where unpopular base items were buffed a bit?
On March 19 2015 07:48 Faeny wrote: If you don't have lightning penetration linked to your arc, I would definitely suggest elemental weakness over assassin's mark, simply because its greatest damage boost works against lightning resistant enemies, which ordinarily would take you the most time to kill.
With assassin's mark, your damage against both nonresistant enemies, which you destroy relatively quickly, and nonresistant enemies, which you destroy relatively slowly, is boosted the same way. So nonresistant enemies are now destroyed even more quickly, while nonresistant enemies are destroyed a bit less slowly.
But with elemental weakness, your damage against nonresistant enemies is boosted relatively slightly, while your damage against resistant enemies is greatly amplified. So elemental weakness is strongest against the enemies which would take the most time to kill, which should smooth out and speed up your overall killing rate.
You're completely discarding the monsters who are overcapped and elemental weakness does nothing against. Map bosses have 60% curse reduction so you get a mere 18.8% reduction in resistance (with a 20/20 elemental weakness). If you assume that the monster is at cap instead of overcapped then this reduces them to 56% resistance. That is 76% more damage in the perfect scenario. If the boss is overcapped you could possibly see no damage increase from elemental weakness at all which is obviously significantly worse than assassin's mark. I'm not sure of any data for boss resistances, but I'd imagine that overcap is more common than other options.
If somebody wants to provide some actual crit numbers from their build for a better theorycraft that could also be useful. I don't think 30/300 is unreasonable, but real numbers are better.
Anyone interested in grouping up for the 1 month on Hardcore send me a pm on here or on poe. My account name is Eightfold on PoE. To demonstrate that I know what im doing in the game , my level 88 ranger from nemesis is still alive in hardcore
Planning on making a lightning tendril templar to start then switch to glacial cascade for mid/late game. Going to run dual curse on hit herald of thunder with frostbite and elemental weakness. Will be running herald of ice as well and probably a lvl 4 clarity but maybe a defensive aura like discipline instead.
I understand its hard to all be on at one time but we could start a guild or something and help each other out.
On March 18 2015 11:21 Probemicro wrote: i think mobs die too fast in burn prolif builds to use HoT-coh-pcoc-assmark anyway. so dont use that.
staff isnt good for crit, you are better off using crit dagger+shield which provides more survivability also this shield will be immensely good for generating power charges along with ass mark http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Jaws_of_Agony
put icenova+multitrap+coh+assasinmark on deerstalker, you will generate power charges SUPER quick on mobs AND single target(which HoT cannot do), plus with EE taken alternating the two trap sets(icenova-fire-icenova) will lower the resistance for nice prolif dmg.
btw for levelling just do yourself a favour and get a searing touch/lifesprig and just use lameblast, super quick levelling since some of the passives that benefit firetrap also apply for lameblast. switch only to crit firetrap when you reach maps since by that time you will then have enough crit chance to make it work well.
The assassin's mark in that build is only for charge generation and the method you listed is far better since it also utilizes EE. I'd much rather see PCoC in your links instead of CoH+Assassin's mark for charge generation if you're going that route.
CoH+Elemental Weakness or Flamability could be nice though if you have the shield for power charge generation.
pcoc doesnt work when linked directly to traps. since the power charge goes to the (dead) trap.
NEVER use coh+flammability for crit fire trap, you DO NOT want to ignite by normal ignite chance (which will be boosted by flammability) since you will have shitty dmg, you want to ignite by crit where all your crit multiplier taken will benefit the damage.
The highest damage ignite overrides the previous ignite. So I'm not sure what you mean? I'm probably just misunderstanding. Unless youre simply making the argument for assassins mark over flammability. In which case you are correct But its not like you have to worry about igniting with non crit because when you do crit , youll reignite for the higher dmg.
On March 19 2015 09:14 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Anyone interested in grouping up for the 1 month on Hardcore send me a pm on here or on poe. My account name is Eightfold on PoE. To demonstrate that I know what im doing in the game , my level 88 ranger from nemesis is still alive in hardcore
Planning on making a lightning tendril templar to start then switch to glacial cascade for mid/late game. Going to run dual curse on hit herald of thunder with frostbite and elemental weakness. Will be running herald of ice as well and probably a lvl 4 clarity but maybe a defensive aura like discipline instead.
I understand its hard to all be on at one time but we could start a guild or something and help each other out.
There is a TL guild already if you want an invite.
On March 19 2015 09:14 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Anyone interested in grouping up for the 1 month on Hardcore send me a pm on here or on poe. My account name is Eightfold on PoE. To demonstrate that I know what im doing in the game , my level 88 ranger from nemesis is still alive in hardcore
Planning on making a lightning tendril templar to start then switch to glacial cascade for mid/late game. Going to run dual curse on hit herald of thunder with frostbite and elemental weakness. Will be running herald of ice as well and probably a lvl 4 clarity but maybe a defensive aura like discipline instead.
I understand its hard to all be on at one time but we could start a guild or something and help each other out.
There is a TL guild already if you want an invite.
Ah cool, yes please Is someone with invite powers on right now? If so I'm on my 88 ranger, char name: Sirris
On March 19 2015 09:14 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Anyone interested in grouping up for the 1 month on Hardcore send me a pm on here or on poe. My account name is Eightfold on PoE. To demonstrate that I know what im doing in the game , my level 88 ranger from nemesis is still alive in hardcore
Planning on making a lightning tendril templar to start then switch to glacial cascade for mid/late game. Going to run dual curse on hit herald of thunder with frostbite and elemental weakness. Will be running herald of ice as well and probably a lvl 4 clarity but maybe a defensive aura like discipline instead.
I understand its hard to all be on at one time but we could start a guild or something and help each other out.
There is a TL guild already if you want an invite.
Ah cool, yes please Is someone with invite powers on right now? If so I'm on my 88 ranger, char name: Sirris
Invite sent. Guild will probably be emptyish until one month starts so don't get discouraged
The TL guild is called Math of Exile if you're confused.
On March 19 2015 09:14 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Anyone interested in grouping up for the 1 month on Hardcore send me a pm on here or on poe. My account name is Eightfold on PoE. To demonstrate that I know what im doing in the game , my level 88 ranger from nemesis is still alive in hardcore
Planning on making a lightning tendril templar to start then switch to glacial cascade for mid/late game. Going to run dual curse on hit herald of thunder with frostbite and elemental weakness. Will be running herald of ice as well and probably a lvl 4 clarity but maybe a defensive aura like discipline instead.
I understand its hard to all be on at one time but we could start a guild or something and help each other out.
There is a TL guild already if you want an invite.
Ah cool, yes please Is someone with invite powers on right now? If so I'm on my 88 ranger, char name: Sirris
Invite sent. Guild will probably be emptyish until one month starts so don't get discouraged
The TL guild is called Math of Exile if you're confused.
Yea no worries, the game is usually pretty dead at the very end of leagues, I know how it is Thanks for invite.
EPT
