Good luck to Argentina, hope we can have Brasil vs Argentina finals in 2014.
Maybe you manage to reach the Quarter Finals, but Brazil and Argentina are not the teams they were from 1990-2002. The european teams (Spain, Germany, Holland) are just a level above brazil/argentina.
I may agree with Spain, but I wouldn't even consider Germany/Holland as favourites against Brazil/Argentina. I think overall Spain is a little bit ahead of everybody, but the next 5-6 teams are pretty even.
Great game today, I thought Brazil had more chances than Argentina to score, but Messi was just too much to handle.
On June 10 2012 06:08 IntoTheWow wrote: Is this the guy saying japan is a force to recon? Lol
Yes I am and do you know why? Because Japan is playing a style very similar to European teams. All you South American supporters must have missed out the last 8 years of football because it's been that long since Brazil/Argentina have had any chance to win a tournament (with the exception of 2010 Dunga Brazil I guess).
Brazil/Argentina haven't realized yet that their times of fancy individual player style of football is outdated. Europe has been dominating football for the last years because they all play like a team. I could only laugh at the Ro8 in the WC2010 when everyone was like "OMG South America is dominating the world cup" because after the Ro4 only Uruguay, who is the closest of all South American teams to play European style, was remaining of the South American teams.
Football has evolved immensely this last decade and Europe is leading the front. Africa has long lost their chance to attack Europe/South America's dominance of football that now even Asia probably play better football than them.
Brazil had around 9 under-23 players. That's basically our team for the Olympic games. Still, I think our team sucks and if the World Cup took place 1 month from now, we would probably go out in r16 or r8. I don't really agree that European teams are better than Argentina, though. Argentina is as good as any European team. A match between Argentina and the European champion would probably be determined by day form. That's how I see it.
On June 10 2012 06:21 Raidern wrote: Brazil had around 9 under-23 players. That's basically our team for the Olympic games. Still, I think our team sucks and if the World Cup took place 1 month from now, we would probably go out in r16 or r8. I don't really agree that European teams are better than Argentina, though. Argentina is as good as any European team. A match between Argentina and the European champion would probably be determined by day form. That's how I see it.
Agree, but I'd still give a slight edge to Spain/Germany over them. Brasil could've probably won this game too, given the two penalty kicks this horribad judge didn't call, anyways,La Pulga too strong.
I may agree with Spain, but I wouldn't even consider Germany/Holland as favourites against Brazil/Argentina. I think overall Spain is a little bit ahead of everybody, but the next 5-6 teams are pretty even.
Germany 4-0 Argentina (World Cup 2010) Germany 3-1 Brazil (Friendly 2011)
...and the german team only got better since 2010. And Argentina/Brazil get worse every year.
On June 10 2012 06:21 Raidern wrote: Brazil had around 9 under-23 players. That's basically our team for the Olympic games. Still, I think our team sucks and if the World Cup took place 1 month from now, we would probably go out in r16 or r8. I don't really agree that European teams are better than Argentina, though. Argentina is as good as any European team. A match between Argentina and the European champion would probably be determined by day form. That's how I see it.
I agree. I think the key question here is that this team (Brazil) is being made with the objective of winning in 2014, so there is obviously a lot of work that needs to be done, especially in the defense. But given enough time, I think they will be great.
On June 10 2012 06:08 IntoTheWow wrote: Is this the guy saying japan is a force to recon? Lol
Yes I am and do you know why? Because Japan is playing a style very similar to European teams. All you South American supporters must have missed out the last 8 years of football because it's been that long since Brazil/Argentina have had any chance to win a tournament (with the exception of 2010 Dunga Brazil I guess).
Brazil/Argentina haven't realized yet that their times of fancy individual player style of football is outdated. Europe has been dominating football for the last years because they all play like a team. I could only laugh at the Ro8 in the WC2010 when everyone was like "OMG South America is dominating the world cup" because after the Ro4 only Uruguay, who is the closest of all South American teams to play European style, was remaining of the South American teams.
Football has evolved immensely this last decade and Europe is leading the front. Africa has long lost their chance to attack Europe/South America's dominance of football that now even Asia probably play better football than them.
And that rant is relevant to Japan being a dominant force because ... ?
Hey I love the Japanese I always root for them, its the closest thing that comes to my own home country so Asian teams gogo. but realistically Japan is a ro16/quarter team and isnt topping any South Americans anytime soon, not consistently anyway.
As for their styles. Again I dont know what you saw but the game against the Dutch last WC Sneider quite literally pulled the game out of his ass because Brazil was pretty scary in that game and may well have and prob should have won it.
Then again the Dutch defense isnt really that hot either.
Brazil as it is now doesnt suffer from their style of play it suffers from having a bunch of kids playing who have time so its not all doom and gloom. I think theyll be a pretty strong team in 2 years.
Argentina has terrible coaching, always will so that problem isnt getting sovled any time soon I agree with that bit.
Asia does not play better football then South American teams. Uruguay does not play like Europeans they play like Uruguay or do you need a history lesson on how Uruguay plays its football ?
Also lets get real here. Everytime Brazil or Argentina went 2-3 World Cups without winning one the same shit started. Game is organized. catenaccio best, total foot for realz. And they came back and won one. I wouldnt be so quick to become a naysayer.
Although I admit they will have to adapt some things from the European game to have a real shot I do not believe the identity has to leave. And it shouldnt thats whats great about football.
On June 10 2012 06:28 fabiano wrote: Brazil still doesn't have a team figured out yet.
Were they giving younger players practice time for the Olympics today? Seems like the back 4 should be figured out, but Thiago Silva and Lucio didn't play.
On June 10 2012 06:28 fabiano wrote: Brazil still doesn't have a team figured out yet.
Were they giving younger players practice time for the Olympics today? Seems like the back 4 should be figured out, but Thiago Silva and Lucio didn't play.
I may agree with Spain, but I wouldn't even consider Germany/Holland as favourites against Brazil/Argentina. I think overall Spain is a little bit ahead of everybody, but the next 5-6 teams are pretty even.
Germany 4-0 Argentina (World Cup 2010) Germany 3-1 Brazil (Friendly 2011)
...and the german team only got better since 2010. And Argentina/Brazil get worse every year.
That was Germany 3-2 Brazil, and it was a friendly. Players don't count their goals in friendlies for a reason. Also, you shouldn't rely on a single result (from 2 years ago!) to imply that one team is better than the other. Argentina beat Spain 4-1 in a friendly after the World Cup. Using your 'logical thinking', they would be the best team in the world.
I may agree with Spain, but I wouldn't even consider Germany/Holland as favourites against Brazil/Argentina. I think overall Spain is a little bit ahead of everybody, but the next 5-6 teams are pretty even.
Germany 4-0 Argentina (World Cup 2010) Germany 3-1 Brazil (Friendly 2011)
...and the german team only got better since 2010. And Argentina/Brazil get worse every year.
Throwing around random results here does not mean anything. Holland just lost to Denmark today, does this mean that they are the worst team?
You also needs to take into account that Brazil is in a period of transition, they are introducing a lot of young players to the national team. Of course you can argue that Germany is better, I don't necessary agree, but I am a little biased here.
But Brazil and Argentina are getting worse? I don't think so. Argentina is becoming more of threat now that Messi is playing well for them, and now that they got rid of Maradona (don't get me wrong but I don't think he is a good coach and that he was doing a good job there).
On June 10 2012 06:08 IntoTheWow wrote: Is this the guy saying japan is a force to recon? Lol
Yes I am and do you know why? Because Japan is playing a style very similar to European teams. All you South American supporters must have missed out the last 8 years of football because it's been that long since Brazil/Argentina have had any chance to win a tournament (with the exception of 2010 Dunga Brazil I guess).
Brazil/Argentina haven't realized yet that their times of fancy individual player style of football is outdated. Europe has been dominating football for the last years because they all play like a team. I could only laugh at the Ro8 in the WC2010 when everyone was like "OMG South America is dominating the world cup" because after the Ro4 only Uruguay, who is the closest of all South American teams to play European style, was remaining of the South American teams.
Football has evolved immensely this last decade and Europe is leading the front. Africa has long lost their chance to attack Europe/South America's dominance of football that now even Asia probably play better football than them.
Shows how much you know about south American teams. Almost all of Argentina `s squad comes from Europe, so they can play that style too. Its more of a coaching problem than anything, and that's a pretty known thing, showing how much you know about it.
Brazil is transitioning and is going to crush teams in wc, as locals. You forget Brazil how Brazil was out by an inch playing in Europe.
Even if Japan is coached by guardiola, playing Spanish style, they would lose to south American teams (or African for the mater) just by pure raw skill.
Also Uruguay doesn't play European style. If anything they play a bit like Italy, but even that is stretching it a fair bit.
As I said 2010 Dunga Brazil was an exception to my earlier statement. Because Dunga played a very European style football (which everyone in Brazil hated him for). Dunga's Brazil were to me the clear favourite to me two years ago, but they just had bad luck in one halftime. And then he was fired for this loss because South Americans didn't like his style of play.
Also you might not believe it but since 1950 Brazil/Argentina had won every other World Cup. European teams dominating top3 twice in a row has never ever happened before.
So yes, I am quite confident in my statement that Europe is widening the gap between them and South America.
(Also I never wanted to say Asian football is better than South American, it is not. I only wanted to say that Asia is now superior to Africa.)
On June 10 2012 06:28 fabiano wrote: Brazil still doesn't have a team figured out yet.
Were they giving younger players practice time for the Olympics today? Seems like the back 4 should be figured out, but Thiago Silva and Lucio didn't play.
Thiago was injuried, he couldn't play.
About who is better than who, we won't really know until the games that matter actually happen.
The only thing we know for sure is that Messi is the best player ever. If he is allowed to play as he wishes, he scores. Every single time.
Imo if Argentina can fix their defense, they are a very strong contender for the title.
Spain vs Argentina with great football from both sides would be a delight to watch.
hoooly shit please tell me usa changed their mind about real football being boring after watching argentinas messi on american ground :D
Absolutely majestic goal, i honestly feel lucky to be able to experience messi playing football! hattrick and that goal, he is in another dimension hah
On June 10 2012 06:51 sharkie wrote: As I said 2010 Dunga Brazil was an exception to my earlier statement. Because Dunga played a very European style football (which everyone in Brazil hated him for). Dunga's Brazil were to me the clear favourite to me two years ago, but they just had bad luck in one halftime. And then he was fired for this loss because South Americans didn't like his style of play.
Also you might not believe it but since 1950 Brazil/Argentina had won every other World Cup. European teams dominating top3 twice in a row has never ever happened before.
So yes, I am quite confident in my statement that Europe is widening the gap between them and South America.
Yes thats true actually they did win every other world cup but they had periods where 1 or the other didnt win for an extended period thats probably how I shouldve phrased it my bad.
So 2 world cups go by without a South American team winning and that means the death of South American styles eh. Thats probably true atleast in the purist sense. But thats been true for a while now.
You cant have the Pele days where theyre dribbling past shit slow and square defenders (I think I said once even Stuart Downing would look world class in those games) but thats irrelevant. I dont even count those world cups as significant really because that was a shit game and a shit standard I dont care how awesome people think Pele is.
Look its really simple. Europe isnt widening any gaps. Its just alot harder to win tournaments because more teams are getting better. If you wan to call that widening the gap then sure Europe has more teams that can compete at a high level. The competition is more fierce this last decade and a half then ever before.
On June 10 2012 07:14 sharkie wrote: I guess we have to agree to disagree.
Btw I am just curious to how you guys define European style and Uruguayan style of football. Since you seem to think it's different.
Uruguay is very high octane energy deep defending they dont really pass it around or anything, hard tackling tough launch it to your best players at every chance.
They just happen to have a very good 3 which is rare in their history which makes it work much better.
Then you have the hard workers in Gargano, Perez, Rios and Perrera that basically just run around and tough tackle.
European football within itself has a myriad of styles so I was just taking the broad definition of focusing on mechanics and organization. Neither of which are particular fortes for even the current Uruguay team. They just have a very strong generation of players going that allows them to play the way they do and yet have some method to the madness. And they play in Europe so its somewhat inherent. The reason I dont call it European is because its not something they have adopted. They always played like this they were the tough tacklers before touch tackling was tough tackling. They sat deep before the Italians became famous for it. And then they have the flair to chuck the ball to when they need it. Infact they are infamous for it.
There is a large amounts of overlap in the modern game so saying X team plays a european style or a South American style isnt really even that accurate anymore.
Everyone wants to be defensively organized or be good at reading counter attacks and movement from forwards. Not everyone is good at it.
EPT
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