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On May 29 2011 14:24 Noxie wrote:
GG.. Messi is good.. I still am pretty upset about the end result.. I would of rather seen Berba then Parks on the field any day of the week. Parks just doesnt do it for me.
Park gave lots of pressure in the midfield. He got some steals and intercepts in the first 10 minutes, then after that decided to disappear completely from the scene. -_- And I think Berbatov just isn't feeling well right now after all his disappointing plays in their last games. Normally, he would be starter and Chicharito bench.
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On May 29 2011 14:24 Noxie wrote:
GG.. Messi is good.. I still am pretty upset about the end result.. I would of rather seen Berba then Parks on the field any day of the week. Parks just doesnt do it for me.
Sir Alex always plays Park in every big game, I think Sir Alex sees something in him behind the scenes in training etc that we maybe sometimes don't see when he's playing. But I don't think Berbatov should've have started, Hernandez is a better player for Rooney to play with and you need someone like Park who will pressure the other team's midfield, but Barca are just too good and there midfield is just ridiculous.
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Every player and SAF admitted that Barcelona are the best team right now. One thing that Ferguson brought up is that if Barca will be able to still dominate with a new cycle of players.( When Xavi, iniesta, puyol) are gone. I know they still have a couple of good years left, but i actually think its impossible to replace Xavi iniesta combo.
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On May 29 2011 14:52 oooo27 wrote:
I dont understand people who say that Argentina had a weak team last year. Did you guys even watch the World Cup?? They had probably the best team in the competition, but lost to Germany because they couldn`t control the midfield. If you replace Messi with Zidane of 10 years ago on that team, Argentina would have rolled everybody.
I like Messi as much as anyone, but he was a major letdown last WC, just like Rooney
It is true that Argentina had a good team, but i dont think that the bad midfield control was Messi fault.
I think that Maradona was one of the worst coaches that i have never seen.
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Ferguson should have gone 4-5-1, with a 5 man midfield it'd be much harder for barca to hold the ball, that's how we beat barca in '08
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On May 29 2011 19:28 GTLdaily wrote:
Every player and SAF admitted that Barcelona are the best team right now. One thing that Ferguson brought up is that if Barca will be able to still dominate with a new cycle of players.( When Xavi, iniesta, puyol) are gone. I know they still have a couple of good years left, but i actually think its impossible to replace Xavi iniesta combo.
fabregas and iniesta? I would like barca to get fabregas soon so that he can start learning from xavi so he can slot straight in when xavi leaves
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On May 29 2011 20:40 shawty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 19:28 GTLdaily wrote:
Every player and SAF admitted that Barcelona are the best team right now. One thing that Ferguson brought up is that if Barca will be able to still dominate with a new cycle of players.( When Xavi, iniesta, puyol) are gone. I know they still have a couple of good years left, but i actually think its impossible to replace Xavi iniesta combo. fabregas and iniesta? I would like barca to get fabregas soon so that he can start learning from xavi so he can slot straight in when xavi leaves
Its funny to see people talking about retirement of Xavi , i mean he's kind of MF that relying on 1 touch and control, hes very intelligent and tactical, so i doubt he'll retire in next 2 years or so , however, thats his decision to make, he may leave for other reasons, but no because of his physical form. Look at Sir Giggs, that man got 37 , and if i remember correctly, in his early age he was ulra quick and now hes kinda support role, but he runs like youngster still, well at least for some part of the game. Giggs is really an example of how long a good player who like to play can play.
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On May 29 2011 20:39 taldarimAltar wrote:
Ferguson should have gone 4-5-1, with a 5 man midfield it'd be much harder for barca to hold the ball, that's how we beat barca in '08
the barca of '08 was much different though.
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On May 29 2011 20:47 Greem wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 20:40 shawty wrote:On May 29 2011 19:28 GTLdaily wrote:
Every player and SAF admitted that Barcelona are the best team right now. One thing that Ferguson brought up is that if Barca will be able to still dominate with a new cycle of players.( When Xavi, iniesta, puyol) are gone. I know they still have a couple of good years left, but i actually think its impossible to replace Xavi iniesta combo. fabregas and iniesta? I would like barca to get fabregas soon so that he can start learning from xavi so he can slot straight in when xavi leaves Its funny to see people talking about retirement of Xavi , i mean he's kind of MF that relying on 1 touch and control, hes very intelligent and tactical, so i doubt he'll retire in next 2 years or so , however, thats his decision to make, he may leave for other reasons, but no because of his physical form. Look at Sir Giggs, that man got 37 , and if i remember correctly, in his early age he was ulra quick and now hes kinda support role, but he runs like youngster still, well at least for some part of the game. Giggs is really an example of how long a good player who like to play can play.
Giggs has never been knighted.
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On May 29 2011 14:24 Noxie wrote:
GG.. Messi is good.. I still am pretty upset about the end result.. I would of rather seen Berba then Parks on the field any day of the week. Parks just doesnt do it for me.
I hope you realize Park and Berbatov are compeletely different type of players and play compeletely different roles too. Park is a combined winger, CMF & DMF who with Evra killed nearly 100% of attacks from the right side. I think Alves got exactly one pass into the box.
e. He also was man marking both Xavi and Messi at some parts of the game, probably because ManU defence didn't know what to do with them, letting them go as they pleased.
Now Evra had a few fuckups in the defence but still they played pretty great match creating a lot of attacks with Rooney and Giggs.
Berbatov is a genius Forward when he is having a good day. But he has quite often those bad days when he doesn't even try.
The real underperformers were Hernandez, Valencia and Callagher along with the defensive line. And I'm not sure if you can say they underperformed since they played against Barcelona, rather they didn't overperform.
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Argentina had a weak squad. So did Brasil. Both much weaker than what they usually field.
Heinze, Demichelis, Gutiérrez and with the aged Veron, it was just bad. And Tevez and Messi have no synergy at all.
And when you struggle when you have possession, Samuel won't make your team any better either.
You tell me what is so good about the Argentina squad when they often have so many good players that dominate for the big clubs. They only had Messi.
Spain and the Netherlands had like 4 to 5 comparable players each. Germany had a lot of up and coming playing very suitable to modern football. Brasil had no dominating players.
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On May 29 2011 23:14 Sated wrote:The upsetting thing is that the two goals we lost to were goals that no one could've done anything about. The second and third goals were attempts that 9 times out of 10 do not go in, especially the one that Villa scored. They were the kind of goal you elect for goal of the month or whatever. Even though Barcelona dominated the game in terms of possession, I never truly felt that they had many clear-cut chances, so to lose to two wonder-goals is pretty heart-breaking. Still, I can't really complain. We didn't do enough on the counter-attack to warrant winning the game. We were always going to have less possession, which is the kind of game we always have when we play against Arsenal so don't put this down to Barcelona being too amazing, but we didn't make our time on the ball count. Oh well. Considering how "bad" a season we've had and how "bad" we've played, winning the PL and being the second best team in Europe (the world?) isn't too bad. 
do you think that man u after this thrashing deserve even to play with barca ? no
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On May 29 2011 22:18 HwangjaeTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 14:24 Noxie wrote:
GG.. Messi is good.. I still am pretty upset about the end result.. I would of rather seen Berba then Parks on the field any day of the week. Parks just doesnt do it for me. I hope you realize Park and Berbatov are compeletely different type of players and play compeletely different roles too. Park is a combined winger, CMF & DMF who with Evra killed nearly 100% of attacks from the right side. I think Alves got exactly one pass into the box. e. He also was man marking both Xavi and Messi at some parts of the game, probably because ManU defence didn't know what to do with them, letting them go as they pleased. Now Evra had a few fuckups in the defence but still they played pretty great match creating a lot of attacks with Rooney and Giggs. Berbatov is a genius Forward when he is having a good day. But he has quite often those bad days when he doesn't even try. The real underperformers were Hernandez, Valencia and Callagher along with the defensive line. And I'm not sure if you can say they underperformed since they played against Barcelona, rather they didn't overperform.
I think a lot of the problem was that Ferguson went out with the wrong shape and prepared his team in the wrong way to take the match. The most obvious problem is that he played a 4-4-1-1, which, if they had a proper destroyer in CM, such as Fletcher, might be okay. However, he played Giggs and Carrick in midfield, both of whom are good passers, but are not great ball-winners. This shows that Ferguson, despite his experience, was quite naive and was a bit of a romantic coming into this match, hoping that his team could play possession and attacking football against Barca.
Essentially, Ferguson relied on essentially a three man midfield in defence (Carrick, Giggs and Rooney tracking back to press Busquets without the ball), to contest what is essentially a four man midfield in attack from Barca (Busquets, the best in his role and probably most underrated player in the world, and Xavi, Iniesta and Messi playing as a false nine, that's Mr 1st, 2nd, 3rd Ballon d'Or podium winners from 2010).
Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but I'm sure even he appreciates now that his plan of using Park to blunt Alves, Giggs and Carrick to start plays and distribute to the wings, Valencia and Rooney to combine, and Chicharito to finish, completely and utterly failed. Giggs was left showing his age - he never got close to Xavi or Iniesta. Carrick did well with what possession he did manage to get, but it wasn't enough. Park blunted Alves for the first 30 minutes until he was told to narrow up and congest the middle and eventually switched with Giggs, letting Alves run rampant in defence and attack for the rest of the match. Valencia failed to pin Abidal back and never got the hoped-for 1-on-1 scenario on the wing. Rooney got completely confused when Xavi suddenly switched roles with Busquets, meaning that Rooney would have to either track Busquets (who he was told to man-mark) back to his own half and isolate Chicharito, or he would have to track Xavi, who is an even better holder of possession. What's worse is that even when United did win possession, Rooney was busy tracking Busquets/Xavi and was therefore out of position to counter-attack quickly. The only good passage of play from United other than the first 10 minute press was the exchange leading to the goal, after they won possession from Abidal's throw-in in Barca's half. That is to say, United didn't create a single chance that began from possession recovered in their own half!
So in hindsight, Ferguson probably should have played a 4-2-3-1, dropping Chicharito for Fletcher or Anderson, but news was that Fletcher was unfit to play anyway. Further, Ferguson should definitely have left Park to deal with Alves because pairing Giggs with Alves was sending lamb to the slaughter. Park doesn't offer anything creatively anyway, and it definitely a better use for him to pin Alves back rather than run himself ragged against the possession Carousel of Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta-Messi. That was a costly change actually, and was a big factor in leading to Barca's two second half goals IMO. But anyway, I think United was doomed to lose this match from a tactical standpoint, and the game was already completely over after 70 minutes.
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On May 30 2011 00:07 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +do you think that man u after this trashing deserve even to play with barca ? no I don't think you understand how a tournament works. If we got all the way through the tournament and ended up drawn against Barcelona in the final, then of course we deserve to play them. Who else in Europe would you argue "deserved" to play Barcelona in the final instead? Aside from that, we won the most competitive league in Europe this season, how can we not deserve to play in the Champion's League? Winning the PL is a greater achievement than winning La Liga.
Just because you made to a final in a tourney doesn't mean you deserve to be there. Look at Man U's road to the final. It was with no doubts the easiest they could have gotten. Playing a poor form Chelsea and Schlanke, or however you spell it, a middle of the table german club who had 1 surprise round win? C'mon.
You can't call ManU deserving because they won the EPL either. They kindly pronounced this season as the most unexpected/crazy/unpredictable season ever but thats only because so many teams underperformed and straight up flopped. Arsenal fell apart. Liverpool started straight awful. Man City didn't quite live up to the hype and thanks to a nice home record Man U won it. In no way did winning this years EPL make them a better team. Just more consistant at home than all the others.
So no. This time around its a much better achievement to win La Liga over Real Madrid than it is to win the EPL over a bunch of inconsistant underperforming powerhouses. Had Real and Barca not meet in the semi's everyone would of had them as favorites to be in the final. They are the best two teams in the world.
ManU got worked. No way around it. They were outclassed. 10 games out of 10 they will not win against Barca. I would have much rather have seen another Classico. Because no matter how you look at it. Barca NEVER beat Real Madrid this year when Real didn't receive a red card. And i would be willing to bet a red would not have been given out in the final.
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What the fuck were you thinking Sir Alex?
Horrible selection. Horrible line up. Horrible tactic. Horrible football. That was the Reds last night.
The fault lies in one man and one man only - Sir Alex. Your stupidity comes out in every single European final weve played and last night was no exception. Yes you have made the club what it is today and you will go down in history as one of the greats. YET I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU FOR MESSING UP EVERY EUROPEAN FINAL WEVE HAD.
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On May 30 2011 00:07 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +do you think that man u after this trashing deserve even to play with barca ? no I don't think you understand how a tournament works. If we got all the way through the tournament and ended up drawn against Barcelona in the final, then of course we deserve to play them. Who else in Europe would you argue "deserved" to play Barcelona in the final instead? Aside from that, we won the most competitive league in Europe this season, how can we not deserve to play in the Champion's League? Winning the PL is a greater achievement than winning La Liga.
I don't think you understand how a tournament works. Getting to the final just means you were better than the teams you played on route to the final on the days you played them. Manchester United's path was undoubtedly easier with Chelsea as the only difficult team. Barcelona played a strong Arsenal team (this was before they fell apart) and Real Madrid. Both teams put up a better fight than Manchester United did, although I don't think they would have managed to beat Barcelona on that day either.
Also its irrelevant if the PL or LL is easier. Neither team can enter the other teams league, also there are probably more good teams in the Premiership, but Barcelona are better than all the teams in the PL, which I guess makes LL more difficult to win, because it has the best team in the world in it.
On May 29 2011 14:24 Noxie wrote:
GG.. Messi is good.. I still am pretty upset about the end result.. I would of rather seen Berba then Parks on the field any day of the week. Parks just doesnt do it for me.
I've always liked Park. He's not the most flashy player, so sometimes you can forget he's on the pitch. But he's one of the hardest working players on the Man U team and against most teams he does a good job pressuring the midfield. Berbatov on the other hand. When had he ever actually been good at United? Once every 2 months he scores a hat-trick against some terrible team that you know will be in a relegation battle towards the end of the season and suddenly everyone thinks he's the greatest player they've ever seen.
I don't think anyone could have beaten Barcelona today, but if anyone could've beat them they weren't going to do it the way Man U were playing. You need to accept that you won't have possession for long periods of time and continue to pressure them and not switch off, because one mistake and they'll be in with a shot on goal. You also have to make use of all the possession that you do get, Man U were giving the ball away so cheaply so they were never able to pressure Barca once they'd settled in. The last thing I've noticed is that Barcelona always seem to start slowly. Their opponents always look like their dominating the game for the first 20 minutes of so, but they rarely get anything for the pressure and once Barcelona do concede they look better and better. (To Man U's credit they didn't fall apart after they conceded the first goal).
All this game made me think is about how different the final (and the whole season) might have been if it wasn't for some questionable refereeing and Bendtner being shit at scoring goals, in the 2nd leg at Arsenal.
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The big mistake by Fegurson was letting Messi play in the space between the midfielders and the defence (sry I can't say the exact positions in english). He drawed defense attention, but he was in the back of the midfield.
He should've told park to get to middlefield to have that extra man to pressure Iniesta, Xavi and Messi, and Rooney should've been all game long marking Daniel Alves. The way MU played Park and Carrick were confused, Daniel Alves was always alone and Messi caused mayhem.
Park is a very good player, but he can`t be in two places at the same time.
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EPT
