On December 21 2004 22:08 Smuft wrote:
When you sit down at a Poker table and play the game as it should be played, you have but one goal: take your opponents for everything they're worth.

You will find this a much easier task if you play on PartyPoker.

The idea that you can learn to play better on PokerStars is ridiculous. You will learn to play better against a different kind of opponent, the kind that is tight and doesn't give you their money easily. While on PartyPoker, you learn to play against loose and fishy opponents, the kind that you can tap for everything they're worth.

Which type of opponent would you rather learn to play against?

you're talking to bw players
bw players want to be the best, not just good

typhy

129 Posts

December 21 2004 22:50 GMT

#23

Oh shit it's smuft. I sense another scam coming up..

Liquid`Nazgul

22427 Posts

December 21 2004 23:15 GMT

#24

you cannot go to partypoker as a beginning player and expect to play it the safe way

the swings are too big and the stakes are too high

of course you can try and make a run for it, I started myself there and survived, so especially with their deals (like $75 for $25 that's offered through TL) it's very possible to make a good streak. though when that happens don't let it get to you and stay a the lower limits for a while

Resonate

United Kingdom8402 Posts

December 21 2004 23:18 GMT

#25

oooo nice thread...

i play partypoker but with my addictive personality and gung-ho attitude towards games i can't allow myself to play for real money cos i'd either win loads, play harder tables and get raped, or i'd lose all my money and incur some serious debts. not being naturally amazing at games like this makes me think maybe to err on the side of caution

Oystein

Norway1602 Posts

December 22 2004 06:39 GMT

#26

Yeah sometimes, but never seen him in the 2550nl game.

Roman

United States2595 Posts

December 22 2004 08:09 GMT

#27

I am a pokerstars man myself, I played a lot on PP and did get quite used to the interface, but I feel like I am good enough to win on PS and would rather have a nice interface and play against players who I can remember because of their pictures. You get nailed a lot on PP running into the other sharks, while on PS, you can just remember who they are.

scrapperdog

United States779 Posts

December 22 2004 08:45 GMT

#28

Smuft you called us fish!! Listen up you weak-tight partypoker playing cod, this forum will always be pro pokerstars. I hope stars does give meat a lil money if they go through the site ...

Kasper

Denmark91 Posts

December 22 2004 09:11 GMT

#29

a big drawback about partypoker (i dunno if its like this at pokerstars too) is that in heads up the button has the big blind and is last to act preflop too. This forces the sb to fold a lot more, just basically gives the big blind a too big advantage.

Also in 15/30 (for whoever plays that) the small blind is 10 and not 7 like other places, forcing you to call a lot more as sb than you normally would. I personally think it should be just 7,5, but then again i dont play that limit very often.

Larry_David

United States211 Posts

December 22 2004 09:11 GMT

#30

my picture on stars is Peter North

easy to remember me

Smuft

Canada318 Posts

December 22 2004 11:47 GMT

#31

Nazgul makes a good point. The players on PartyPoker are generally loose and more agressive than on PokerStars which naturally, increases your variation. However, higher variation usually means higher returns and in this case, it definitely does equal higher returns. I have played all of the low limit games on PartyPoker from .50/1.00 on up and the variation is quite minimal.

I will also tell you that if you use Meat's deal where you are effectively getting $50 for free (give him $25, get back $50 plus $25 bonus) you will find yourself in a much better spot than if you simply depositted that same $25 on PokerStars where you get little to no bonus at all. The bonuses keep coming too, there is a 15% up to $75 bonus offered to every new player, and there is PartyPokers standard monthly bonuses as well.

Kapser, the big blind being the button on PartyPoker is kind of annoying but it's a insignificant in comparison with all of the advantages. The blind structure in 15/30 just promotes more action, I suppose it is a disadvantage for the better player but if you've played that game seriously, you won't have many complaints as it's quality is excellent. The players are ridiculously agressive, overplaying their hands so bad and making impossible bluffs. There is 50 15/30 games running at peak hours and no shortage of fish. I strongly believe the 15/30 at PartyPoker is the best limit ring game on the net.

I'm about to have a session right now. I'll post you guys a screenshot when I'm finished that will illustrate the utter power of a professional PartyPoker player abusing all the tools he has at his disposal.

Excalibur_Z

United States12248 Posts

December 22 2004 12:13 GMT

#32

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Smuft

Canada318 Posts

December 22 2004 14:38 GMT

#33

Click the link if the screenshot isn't completely viewable. I hope you guys are using 1600x1200.

The screenshot is of my desktop during an 8 table session of the 5/10 6 max on PartyPoker. You will notice a bunch of numbers above or below each players name. The numbers from top left to top right are, %VP$IP (flops seen %), Pre-flop raise %, and total hands I have on this player. The bottom numbers are agression factor for the flop, turn, and river. Agression factor is determined by the formula (bet % + call %) / raise %. Now, what do all these numbers mean? Well, I can tell how often a player is in the pot on the flop, how often he raises before the flop and how agressive he is on each street. If a player with a pre flop raise % of 2, raises in front of me, I can safely fold AQo. if a player with a pre flop raise % of 20 raises me, I can 3 bet him with ATo or even worse. If a player calls my bets all the way and suddenly raises me on the turn and has an agression factor of 0.3, I know he's got the nuts or close to it and I can safely lay down top pair.

All of these stats are imported in real time into PokerTracker and then updated in real time right on your PartyPoker interface using PlayerView.

I'm getting roughly 600 hands an hour on 8 tables and I know my players better than they know themselves as soon as they sit down.

Do you understand the power?

Can you do that on PokerStars?

scrapperdog

United States779 Posts

December 22 2004 14:49 GMT

#34

Look here smuft ... pokerstars vs partypoker nation war any time u want.

BinGBonG[gamei]

Netherlands514 Posts

December 22 2004 16:07 GMT

#35

u guys never go with 4 man to a table and play together and steal the 2 other ppl there money?

Jamers

Israel1327 Posts

December 22 2004 16:28 GMT

#36

Smuft, I have a question about PokerTracker.

Would all those stats that you can collect from hand histories be useful in NL? Would a significantly larger hand sample be needed?

I have PT, just never bothered to use all that cool stuff you use.

And I don't see what you're talking about PS not being PT friendly. I have everything set on auto too, while using PS. It requests 100 hands automatically every 15 mintues, and then automatically checks my e-mail and automatically imports it into the database.

Smuft

Canada318 Posts

December 22 2004 17:14 GMT

#37

They are definitely useful in NL. In the beginning stages of a Poker player's career he can identify his 'problem hands' by going through his database and checking his hands that should be in the green but are actually in the red. In the later stages, when you have a nice database going for yourself, you can check up on another player's stats in a sticky situation. A very simple example: UTG limps, you make it 4x the BB with AA in MP, everyone folds and UTG calls. The flop comes K32 rainbow and UTG goes all in, you're thinking WTF does he have? Your first thought is a set but a quick look at his stats and you see that he has never limped UTG with KK and he has never played 22 or 33 UTG so he must fold them, obviously he doesn't have K3 or K2 so you call and he shows you AK. You can understand how useful this would be in a big pot against a player you have a lot of hands on.

Okay, PokerTracker is PokerStars friendly but it is best friends with PartyPoker. You can update 100 hands every 15 minutes? Doesn't it occasionally make mistakes when PT runs the macro to email hand history? I'm not sure if it has this problem with PokerStars but I know it used to happen to me. With PartyPoker, PT imports from your hand history folder stored locally on your hard drive at customizable increments in minutes (mine is set to every 1 minute). You can also set it up to auto import observed hands. Which means, you can leave your PartyPoker running all day long, picking up hands on your opponents and within a few days you have hands on every single player who plays your limit.

POWER!

Kasper

Denmark91 Posts

December 22 2004 18:10 GMT

#38

@Smuft: I do think that partypokers 15/30 is pretty easy money, however, i would much rather play against very passive players compared to very agressive players in shorthanded.

And i think its pretty amazing that you can manage 8 tables of shorthanded limit even if the stakes are not very high. 600 hands an hour would be very stressful to me

What do you normally play and what do you make?

TheGoliath

United States682 Posts

December 22 2004 19:54 GMT

#39

poker stars players sound easier to beat in limit in my opinion

get a kickass hand and then raise like hell. i made a couple thousand chips doing it play money before i got bored and switched to low stakes. this sounds basically like what party poker people do.