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Okay, another decent run coming together. Wanted to get some advice.
MdFi (mountain dwarf fighter? amidoinitrite?) of Nemelex ****
I'm just about done with Lair, and here's what I'm working with:
XL: 12
Fighting: 12, Armour: 14, Axes: 18
Weapon: +1/+0 BattleAxe of Freezing
No other noteworthy gear except for my Amulets of Rage/Grourmand, and a +6 Dexterity ring
I literally haven't found any heavy armors. wtf. Should I start trying to raise dodge? Currently wearing +5 leather armor randart with +3dex and sInv.
Is this my end game weapon? Time to start using enchant weapon scrolls?
I have so many decks of summoning. I know it has to do with what I sacrifice. Do I need to stop praying on corpes and start doing other stuff? How do I get decks of wonder?
Plain and Ornate decks seem to summon more hostiles than friendlies. wtf?
I'm at XL 12 and I still haven't gained Invocations. What's up with that? Am I doing something wrong?
I have cleared most of Lair, and will be heading to Orcs next.
Thanks for the help!
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On January 09 2012 22:58 MrBitter wrote:
I literally haven't found any heavy armors. wtf. Should I start trying to raise dodge? Currently wearing +5 leather armor randart with +3dex and sInv.
No ring mails? No scale mails? You are basically guaranteed to find a plate armour somewhere in Orc, orcs love heavy armour.
Is this my end game weapon? Time to start using enchant weapon scrolls?
Most likely. Executioner's axes are rare; it's definitely more common to not find one in a game than it is to find one. You might want to clear Orc before you enchant, though, since Orc has a decent chance of having baileys (which might have axes) and orcs in general love axes.
I have so many decks of summoning. I know it has to do with what I sacrifice. Do I need to stop praying on corpes and start doing other stuff? How do I get decks of wonder?
Well decks of summoning are in general the best deck, since they're the best at killing dudes, so you shouldn't be complaining much about getting too many of them unless you don't have enough escape decks. Press ^! to change what you sacrifice to Nemelex (hint: the screen is interactive).
In general most players dramatically overvalue decks of wonders. It's true that they're pretty good. It's also true that if you're taking Nemelex for decks of wonder, you don't understand how disgustingly overpowered his other decks are. You take Nemelex for escape/summoning decks, maybe to some degree for destruction; wonders and dungeons are the cherry on top of the rest.
If you get faith it's actually possible to win the game with decks as your only source of offense. That's how good Nemelex is (and you can come pretty close even without faith).
Plain and Ornate decks seem to summon more hostiles than friendlies. wtf?
You only get hostiles from decks of summoning if you get power 0 and a 25% chance, or maybe with Herd cards. See the knowledge bots for more on card power. If you have very high evocations skill you will very rarely get hostiles from ornate decks of summoning. That said it's usually pretty easy to deal with summoned hostiles: you either pull more cards, or you just run away and wait out the summoning timer (depending on the situation). Obviously you don't use plain decks if you're in a dangerous spot.
If you have 0 evocations skill then ornate decks act exactly the same as plain decks I believe.
I'm at XL 12 and I still haven't gained Invocations. What's up with that? Am I doing something wrong?
Nemelex uses Evocations instead of Invocations.
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Ah, thanks. I'll start training Evocations asap.
How high does it need to be?
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On January 09 2012 23:20 MrBitter wrote:
Ah, thanks. I'll start training Evocations asap.
How high does it need to be?
Certainly you want to get to at least skill 20 or so. If you use rods a lot you have good reason to keep going all the way to 27 for more rod/wand power.
Also, you probably want to use any scrolls of acquirement you find on staff acquirement, which is very likely to give you a rod if your evocations skill is your highest magic skill. Striking is useless and demonology is mediocre unless you need abjuration, but all the other rods range from good to extremely good if you have high evocations skill.
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Im playing right now.
Another HOPr, who woulda guessed.
Going to update this as I go with knowledge and revelations I think of as they come to me.
- In the early game, stick with axes unless you find something ridiculous. If you see any spears or javelins, grab them and begin to train your throwing skill. Not really worth it for darts/needles, unless they have some sort of special effect.
- It's really easy to find good axes and armor in Orc Mines
- A good run means you kill as many orcs as possible before level *** piety. This way you can recruit your first group members faster. The earlier you recruit them, the more time they have to grow, and if you catch them early enough before the monsters can one shot them, its easy to develop them into Warlords/Red Sorcs/High Priests (Tier 4, highest tier).
- Keep your core group very small. 5-6 members tops. Sacrifice everyone else in battle so they dont soak up EXP. If you do it right and convert people on D:3, then you can work them to Tier 3 by level 10-11. Even sooner if you hit the lair.
- If you just have one disciple, he levels up extremely fast. I just cleared D:6-8 with a regular orc, and he is now a general (Tier 3, extremely strong for this early in the game)
- Blink scrolls are perhaps your most valuable asset because it not only lets you escape, but you can also recall your army from certain doom. Teleport is also good, but since you can't control where you land, it's more of a gamble.
(More comming soon)
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I think i already added earlier my tips about HOPr, to me it seems best to leave the highest lvl orc's behind when im doing some easier parts because the high lvl ones tend to steal exp from the lower ones, so its easier to get much high lvl guys by levelling a handful of guys at the same time and leaving the stronger ones behind. When all are equal lvl they are not so likely to suicide on harder places also.
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Probably the easiest way to play HOPr is to abandon Beogh and worship Elyvilon, but somehow I don't think that's the advice you're looking for....
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Man, sometimes this game just wants you to lose.
Just lost my MdFi of Nemelex, Ran out of decks, and was running for my life. Every time I'd retreat up or down I'd find new uniques waiting at the stairs.
t.t
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I was tired of killing off MfSk (because Skald sucks enough to counterbalance the goodness of Mf, so you can actually die) so I pick MfGl. I really just wanted to worship Fedhas again and blow more things up with spores because spores are the best god ability in the game.
I find War Chants on the ground pretty early, then come across a bookshop with Frost, Enchantments, and Party Tricks. For those not familiar with the books, I now had the following relevant spells guaranteed: Freezing Aura/Flame Brand, Shroud of Golubria, Repel Missiles, Regeneration, Haste, Ozocubu's Armour, Throw Icicle, Apportation, and Blink. I basically got the good start of Gl while getting the books of IE and Sk plus some other good books.
Naturally at this point the RNG begins to viciously attack me by throwing a ridiculous number of challenges my way.
D: 9 has a vault with a guardian serpent that nearly two-shots me before I teleported away.
D:10 has Psyche, who has a dagger of distortion. I actually learn this because she blinked a hyperactive ballistomycete, but I was dumb enough to get hit by it later and of course it Abyssed me on the first hit. I very nearly died there to Smoke Demon smiting, and absolutely would have died had I not been Merfolk (for water movement and swiftness while swimming).
D:11 is an octagon level and has a SETm player ghost.
D:12 has some stupid vault that has out-of-depth skeletons and then some skeletal warriors for kicks.
D:13 is where I finally find Lair ... so I was searching the previous levels as thoroughly as I could since I had no idea where Lair was.
Lair itself was a nice respite. Orc was pretty decent too, and I got the centaur/crossbow ending, which basically meant that the orcs grouped up for spores to kill them. Orc:4 netted me boots of running and a wand of heal wounds. In exchange the RNG stepped up its assault:
D:14 has a tentacled monstrosity. For those of you still on 0.9, in 0.10 they have constriction. The only relevant thing you need to know about that is that it means if I spend one turn adjacent to it I probably am dead. Thankfully they are speed 9, but it still makes exploring the level awful.
D:17 has Nessos, Kirke, Frances, and Aizul.
On D:18 I get Abyssed again by a Zot trap, but this time it was not a bad trip and I actually got the rune, so maybe this one was good luck.
D:19 finally has Vaults; Vault:1 has Mara, and then V:2 throws Saint Roka, Xtahua, Wiglaf, and Frederick at me. I go look at D:20, but it's a large rectangular level and Boris finds me at the stairs.
I actually managed to kill off all the uniques I mentioned except for Aizul (that dude is terrifying) and Mara; the most difficult were Boris and the Vault 2 crew. Wiglaf died to repeated hyperactive ballistomycete creation (knocking my piety down to 3* in the process, ugh), and I killed Frederick and Saint Roka with the help of an Oklob.
Of course, this has been a tremendously enjoyable game because of all the challenges, and I've gotten tremendous mileage out of Fedhas because spores and mushrooms are amazing. Spores and hyperactive ballistomycetes are like a mini-Firestorm with confusion attached, which means they do a very good job of killing things dead, and whereas Firestorm takes a huge investment in 3 different skills to use spores only take ~9 invo.
I have actually been losing piety fast enough via ballistomycete death to be thankful for the amulet of faith I am wearing. Clarity would be better so I could freely absorb spore/ballisto explosions without getting confused (and with 25 AC they don't hurt as bad as you might expect, though you still don't want to stand in the middle if you don't have to), but in the meantime I'm taking advantage of my better piety growth.
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hi!
Just started playing a week ago. I'm playing KoBe because it seemed to be the easiest combination for beginners. I had a few"deep" runs and now I'm Lvl 21 have several branded weapons (i.e. the +5,+10 quick blade "Qiurodd" (weapon) {god gift, venom, rN+ Dex-1 SInv). I was about to obtain the serpentine rune as i was teleported to the abyss, i guess it was a zot trap, because i was literally two steps away from the rune...
So, can you give me any advice how to handle the abyss and how to get out of there? I'm at 11 meat rations and 12 honeycombs, I hope i will not be starving 
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On January 13 2012 22:51 seve wrote:hi! Just started playing a week ago. I'm playing KoBe because it seemed to be the easiest combination for beginners. I had a few"deep" runs and now I'm Lvl 21 have several branded weapons (i.e. the +5,+10 quick blade "Qiurodd" (weapon) {god gift, venom, rN+ Dex-1 SInv). I was about to obtain the serpentine rune as i was teleported to the abyss, i guess it was a zot trap, because i was literally two steps away from the rune... So, can you give me any advice how to handle the abyss and how to get out of there? I'm at 11 meat rations and 12 honeycombs, I hope i will not be starving
If you're level 21 you should probably survive. If you run into stuff that isn't hurting you (e.g. most 5's) just let it be unless you have to move through it. If you see melee enemies that would deal noticeable damage to you if you bother to kill them, but that do not outrun you (e.g. skeletal warriors) then usually the best course of action is to just move away from them. If you run into Smoke Demons or the like that can damage you from range you probably should go kill them; similarly you probably want to kill stuff like ugly things that will outrun you and deal damage to you. If you run into something really nasty (e.g. Liches or 1's) then call in some bros and take it out if you can't keep it out of sight.
Do not berserk unless you will 100% die if you don't, Abyss is a horrible place to be slowed. If you get into a bad situation teleports will still work, but they take a long time to kick in in the Abyss so you have to decide early. Blinks do not work in the Abyss (or if they do they are unreliable, I forget). Scrolls of fog are good for breaking LOS if you want to do that.
If you take significant damage turn on Trog's Hand for the regeneration, because standing in one spot to regen is not usually a very good idea.
Keep moving and you should find an exit without too much trouble.
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Thanks for the advise! just a quick question: What are 1's and 5's? Is this the non-Tiles symbol for certain monsters?
edit: and if i see an altar of Lugonu should I pray at it to escape? Or is it not worth the trouble finding a Trog altar?
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On January 13 2012 23:07 seve wrote:
Thanks for the advise! just a quick question: What are 1's and 5's? Is this the non-Tiles symbol for certain monsters?
edit: and if i see an altar of Lugonu should I pray at it to escape? Or is it not worth the trouble finding a Trog altar?
1's are the most dangerous demons (in 0.10, only the various Fiends and Executioners; before that you have some other stuff which has been either downgraded to a 2 or removed entirely, such as Green and Blue Deaths). 5's are common demons: the various imps, ufetubi, midges, etc.
If you convert to Lugonu that is not a decision you can easily undo. Lugonu wrath will likely send you back to the Abyss several times (so converting and then abandoning Lugonu after you leave the abyss is unlikely to accomplish anything), and Trog wrath is really nasty if you don't have spells (he spawns a pack of berserking tough enemies around you periodically). Converting probably has a better chance of getting you killed than just ignoring the altars.
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Again, thanks for your help! I escaped unharmed after 5-10 min and also found the abyssal rune. Lucky me ^^
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Okay, in the deepest run I've ever had, and its time for me to ask advice.
Zapling, I hope you're out there
HoPr!
I just cleared D:19. I've done all of Lair and Orcs, but I have no poison resist, so I haven't bothered with Hive. I'm not sure where to go next. D:19 was a breeze, and it had steam dragons, and other nasty stuff. I feel like I could continue to go deeper, but I also feel like I need to start picking up some Runes.
Available spots: Shoals, Vauls, Slime Pits, Elven Halls, and Snake Pit
Here's what I'm working with:
XL: 16, AC: 33, EV: 6, Str: 24, Int: 9, Dex: 10
Axes: 20, Maces: 15, Fighting: 14, Armour: 14, Invocation: 11, Evocation: 6. Haven't leveled anything else
Gear:
+3/+4 Orcish Battleaxe of Chopping - this is what I mostly use, but I also have
+12/+10 Great Mace randart with +1 dex, flame, +rage, and hunger - I would use this all the time if not for the hunger cost
Lots of wands, rings: +5 protection, sustenance (does this cancel out the hunger effect of the randart?) conservation and resist corrosion amulets
What's really awesome is my army of Orcs.
I have two high priests, who regularly summon droves of smoke demons and other nasty creatures when there's trouble.
I have five very well equipped knights, who refuse to be promoted to high warlord, or general, or whatever
And I have a smattering of other followers who are low-mid level
I know this could be a winning run. I'm already all the way down to D:19 and I haven't had a single close call. (But I'm still being careful. Overconfidence has killed me before)
What should I do next?
Thanks!
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MrBitter, it'd be a lot easier for you and us if you'd post your character dumps, rather than type everything out. (Hit # to create a dump, it'll be a text file somewhere in your DCSS folder, if you're playing locally)
You should dive dungeon until things get too hot, then clear snake pit/shoals/vaults up to their respective end levels, then go for runes or check out crypt/elf (do NOT do tomb or blades) or dive dungeon more. Do Hive sometime if you're still in .9. Snake Pit should be really easy without .10 constriction, too.
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If you want to level your orc knights, you should drop some of the mid-level warriors you are keeping because they are draining your EXP pool.
Also, for the love of god, why are you training axes AND maces?
Even without poison resistance, the Snake Pit is doable is you stair dance a lot (to be on the safe side, you should only try the branch if you have 8+ potions of healing). Shoals are fairly easy too for a Lvl 20 character. There's no rune in the Elven Halls, the last elven level should only be made at LvL24 (can be do it at your level but you must be ultra-careful), there's a bunch of elf demonologists there and you can be sent to the Abyss fairly easily.. The Slime Pits is the most deadly branch of all dungeon crawl, and it is even worst for HoPr as your followers will die just because you can't move without them touching the walls. Vaults lvl 8 is beatable if you stair dance.
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Hi again,
I have a fairly similar question as Mr. Bitter. I have 2 runes (abyssal and serpentine) and went down to Lvl 26 of the Dungeon and i should have died at least two times by now. But i got lucky (Mennas silence was turned off when going upstairs - nice to know/escaping and killing a group of stone giants using 15+ potions) and i don't knowwhat to do next (because of lack of resistence items). So here is my dump file (i hope that worked as intended):
+ Show Spoiler +
Thanks again!
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You don't need resistance until you go to Zot (or the extended endgame), and in Zot you only need rF++ and rElec, and you can get by without rElec if you can manage to not die to electric golems without it. Resistances are highly overrated by most new players. (Actually magic resistance--which is not really a resistance in the same sense but has the word in its name--is indeed important, since it prevents stuff like paralysis and banishment. But if you have one source of MR plus max XL you are ok in Zot, and depending you might be ok with no sources other than natural MR.) You do not need rPois for Snake, and you only need rPois in Swamp if you actually get confused by swamp drakes. Certainly having a source of rF+ and rC+ is very helpful for dragons and such too, but you only need one pip of resistance for that.
If you are trying Snake and are actually taking enough damage from poison to care about it you probably should come back later with more HP/AC/EV/offense. You should need like 2 or 3 potions of curing at most. Honestly the main use of rPois is so you can stand in your own mephitic/poisonous clouds and not care about them.
Margery (oh hi there have a 100 damage fireball you're welcome), Nikola (90 damage in one turn chain lightning), and Xtahua are the only uniques in Dungeon who you should not fight without the relevant resistance, but even in those cases you only need one pip.
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Seve: your stuff is good enough to win, so you can go wherever you want in the dungeon. Slime, swamp, and vault:8 are all quite doable with what you have available (I would not recommend Slime because it is full of annoying enemies and is annoying in general). Some other advice:
You are carrying way too much stuff--I hope you just picked it up for the dump!--so drop lots of it (especially especially those cure mut potions! In fact you should never even pick up cure mut potions unless you plan to use them immediately or if they are in Pan/Abyss/Hell/Slime, since if you leave them on the ground they are perfectly safe unless you incite an enemy to freeze you while you are standing on top of them). Items on the ground are generally pretty safe, you only have to worry about intelligent monsters coming by and using items they can use. Most scrolls (everything but summoning, I think), many potions, and all food is safe to leave lying around as long as you searched the level and did not find a jelly, and additionally as long as you don't spend more time on the level than you need. Lair is very nearly perfectly safe for a stash as well (and the travel time is not important, even from D:27).
As far as skills go, shortblades is a higher level than you need (you get a small damage boost, but the xp you pay is better spent elsewhere for sure), unarmed combat is not going to do anything helpful so you should turn that off also, and you should turn on armour skill since you will get some extra AC with very little xp expenditure at this point. If you get your armour skill to ~10 or so you can easily switch to fire or ice dragon armour (or switch to swamp or mottled dragon armour earlier if you want better AC/EV but worse resists) for better survivability at a very small cost.
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(Also Elf:5 is significantly more dangerous than Slime if you know what you are doing in many cases. Elf:5 is mostly just a place to die unless you have cloud spells or Elyvilon; the loot is rarely worthwhile and the xp is absolutely not worth the difficulty. It is however much less annoying than Slime.)
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Thanks crate! I stashed half of my stuff now and i'm working on the armor skill. But now I have a new problem. I went into the swamps and i'm on Lvl 5. There is a region with walls whereice wraith and simulacra are which is no problem but there is constantly freezing vapor generatedso i can't get deep into it. What to do? The rune must be there, because i searched the rest of the Lvl. (I guess i could run into it, but since its my deepest run so far i reeeaaaally dont want to die so i'm scared )
Update: just tried to get in and hydra-simulacra seem to be a big problem, still alive though but i needed to blink away.
Update 2: after finding some Cold resistance and equipping my flame branded sword everything worked nicely. I didnt even have to go Berserk. Also a nice spectating guy explained me how to search things^^
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EPT
