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crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
January 03 2012 06:16 GMT
#381
If you want specific advice give me a character dump and I can look at your inventory, otherwise you can get more Str if you're struggling.

Passwall is nice for stabbing since you get a free turn on the other side of the wall, but since you're a SpEn you probably don't need it.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Misder
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1557 Posts
January 03 2012 06:26 GMT
#382
How do I give a character dump? I'm playing offline btw. Thanks haha.
Whaaaa?
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
January 03 2012 06:57 GMT
#383
On January 03 2012 15:26 Misder wrote:
How do I give a character dump? I'm playing offline btw. Thanks haha.

Press # to generate it, then it's stored wherever your morgues are. If you used the installer it's in your appdata folder somewhere.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
srulz
Profile Joined June 2010
6 Posts
January 03 2012 12:41 GMT
#384
Hey crate, beef42 & others,

got any tips on dealing with Abyss and getting Banished in general?

Just lost a really awesome char there, and it's all because I decided to do Elf 5 before going for Zot (got 3 runes already, as everything else like Vault etc is done). I tried wearing my MR stuff also, but I still got Banished as soon as I got in sight of a Deep Elf Sorcerer.

I'm using a GDA, with Shield, so Swiftness/Haste is out of question for me.
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
January 03 2012 13:40 GMT
#385
If I'm building a fighter-type character, should I ever stop investing in Strength? (long blades)
Goolpsy
Profile Joined November 2010
Denmark301 Posts
January 03 2012 14:51 GMT
#386
Riddle me this; how come Player Ghosts are trice as strong as the original, with Godly spells your originals never had acces to :S
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
January 03 2012 14:58 GMT
#387
On January 03 2012 21:41 srulz wrote:
Hey crate, beef42 & others,

got any tips on dealing with Abyss and getting Banished in general?

Just lost a really awesome char there, and it's all because I decided to do Elf 5 before going for Zot (got 3 runes already, as everything else like Vault etc is done). I tried wearing my MR stuff also, but I still got Banished as soon as I got in sight of a Deep Elf Sorcerer.

I'm using a GDA, with Shield, so Swiftness/Haste is out of question for me.

Swiftness plus flight will let you escape the majority of the dangers. Being a Spriggan or Centaur obviously helps also. Don't get abyssed as a Naga. Number one rule is to run and keep running. You can spend a couple turns taking out enemies here and there but unless you're pretty buff your main goal is to find an exit before you run across something like an ancient lich, which means you want to cover as much ground as possible.

Put on defensive jewellery (regeneration is especially nice, and the spell also), equip a weapon with resists if you can. Teleports do work in the abyss but they take a long time.

High MR and T&D skill will help prevent you from getting banished in the first place.

If all else fails, convert to Lugonu if you see an altar. You'll have to endure your old god's wrath, but that may be the better option if Lugonu keeps you alive. Note that Lugonu's wrath involves lots of banishment, so if you convert you're going to stick to Lugonu for some time at least.

On January 03 2012 22:40 MrBitter wrote:
If I'm building a fighter-type character, should I ever stop investing in Strength? (long blades)


Raise str to three times the EV penalty of the heaviest armour you plan to wear. If you plan to cast any spells at all (and if you're in anything lighter than plate, you can cast some useful low-level ones just fine) then raise int on every levelup after that. Otherwise, either str or dex works.

On January 03 2012 23:51 Goolpsy wrote:
Riddle me this; how come Player Ghosts are trice as strong as the original, with Godly spells your originals never had acces to :S

They're not really much stronger than the living character was, if at all, and their spells are determined by the spellset of the character who died. The only ghost spells that might get an upgrade from the player version are sticky flame (ranged) and summons (might summon more stuff, I don't know).

The easiest way to deal with ghosts is to just bypass them.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
January 03 2012 15:09 GMT
#388
On Strength:

So if I'm only planning to wear leather, I only need 6 strength? Am I misunderstanding this somehow?
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-03 16:35:21
January 03 2012 15:45 GMT
#389
On January 04 2012 00:09 MrBitter wrote:
On Strength:

So if I'm only planning to wear leather, I only need 6 strength? Am I misunderstanding this somehow?

You only need 3 strength for leather actually (EV -1) (though you might want a few more points so you can carry more stuff), and if you're wearing leather you should probably learn spells unless you worship Trog. If you're going for EV as your main defense then definitely dex is more important than str since it'll boost your EV.

0.10 HOHe easiest-three-rune-win-ever guide:
+ Show Spoiler +
Turn off all skills but invocations at the beginning. Pick up a weapon when you find one (anything but shortblades is fine, though axes have the best aptitude) and equip it. Find some heavy armour and equip that as well. Pacify everything you can unless you are hungry or worse, in which case you should try to get chunks from stuff you can eat and that won't kill you.

Note that pacification takes quite a bit of nutrition, so you probably want to eat permafood if you drop to Near Starving; you need your aa online to not die.

Get Invo to 15 before you turn on any other skills. Once Invo is at 15 you can turn on your weapon skill so you can chop up zombies and J's better. You can turn on fighting and armour a bit later. Keep raising invo though, since it's still your most powerful way to deal with enemies. Get to lair ASAP, pacify all the enemies in lair, now you're maxed out on piety. Once you hit 6* you can start meleeing stuff to death instead of just pacifying everything.

With maxed Ely piety you basically cannot lose unless you get into a really bad spot or do something dumb or starve to death. The only enemies that you have to worry about are slime creatures, so just keep them split up in any way you can (stairdancing does this pretty reliably, if nothing else works). If you need to fight, Divine Vigour gives you about 40-50% more maxhp and you're maxed out on piety so go ahead and pop it if you run into anything tough that is undead or demonic or unpacify-able (Boris is probably the main culprit; you're better off using Divine Vigour and a might potion or something instead of trying to pacify). Use purification and the self-healing abilities liberally, you have plenty of piety to spend.

At invo 20 you can head into Shoals/Snake/Swamp and your greater pacification should be strong enough to pacify anything you run into except Boris, so just go get the runes. After the first rune you grab you should be at about 22 invo, 15 weapon skill, 10 fighting, 8 armour. You can turn on evocations at this point if you want (or earlier if you found a rod.)

Go clear out Orc whenever you want, you get a bonus to pacifying orcs so the only orcs that don't go down to aa are Saint Roka or warlords (you'll almost always pacify sorcerers or high priests in one attempt). If you get the ogre ending you should still be able to aa the ogres but you can use ad if you want since you have tons of piety.

You can actually head straight into elf after orc if you want and your invo skill is ~22 or more, since the elves all have low HP so they're easy to pacify. Greater pacification should work reliably on the dangerous elves. With 25+ invo skill you can pacify ancient liches no problem, as well as use lesser pacification on any dragons you run into, so clearing D and Vault 1-7 is super easy.

Vault 8 requires 1 blinking scroll and a way to haste yourself once, as well as full piety. Put on divine vigour, haste yourself, descend the stairs. Use your blink scroll to go either to the top or the bottom so you get the entire vault guard band on one side of you, then back up and pacify as you go (lesser pacification works unreliably, greater pacification works reliably; start with some greater pacification on the nearest vault guards then use whichever you like on the rest). Once the vault guards are cleaned up the rest of V:8 is pretty easy. You'll need greater pacification on titans and tentacled monstrosities. From there you have three runes so just clear out Zot and go win.

Crypt is actually decently hard since to pacify you will generally have to spend piety. You can clear it out if you want since you can probably cut stuff up by this point, but unless you are seriously in need of some item you can skip it and probably do better.

As far as equipment goes--
You want a two-handed weapon. The main purpose of your weapon is to kill zombies, Js, golems, and orbs of fire. None of these have attacks where a shield helps out, so using a shield is a bad idea. Battleaxes and great maces are good and basically guaranteed. Executioner's axes, triple swords, and bardiches are also good but rarer. Greatsword or glaive is ok but not ideal. A brand is nice but not a big deal; if you find freezing aura/fire brand spells you can take off your armour to learn and cast those and then make the brand permanent, otherwise just make your weapon vorpal.

I find that storm dragon armour is generally the best armour to aim for, since it gives nice AC and, most importantly, gives rElec so you can fight electric golems (which cannot be pacified). If you have rElec from some other source then go for gold dragon armour. If you happen across pearl dragon armour then wear it because you can train dodging and get some decent EV to go with your AC, and you can even pick up some spells in it.

Gourmand is really really good since pacification uses a lot of nutrition. Rage is the other good amulet. Stasis is good to put on so you don't get paralyzed. Conservation is decent as always. Nothing else is important (the only thing that mutates you that you can't pacify is orbs of fire, and you can just get mutated by that point since it's the end of the game).

Rings you only really care about see invis (so you can pacify invisible stuff), resistance rings, slaying, +EV, +AC, or regen. CTele is a huge boon for Vault:8 but disabled in Zot:5 so not that big a deal overall. Wizardry is good if you found PDA or are sticking with one of the lighter dragon armours since it'll let you cast spells.

Acquirement should go toward staves or wands in almost every case. You want hasting or teleportation wands (heal wounds not so much since greater self-healing is basically heal wounds, though if you max evo the wand is the most reliable way to pacify stuff), and all the good rods are good. Only take staff acquirement if you've trained Evo skill some.

You want rF++ and rElec possible for Zot (having to swap is fine). You can probably do Zot with just rF+ and no rElec though it'll be harder, though you do have Divine Vigour to let you tank a lot more damage than most characters.


edit: Won in under 60k turns, by far my fastest win.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
myopia
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2928 Posts
January 03 2012 17:36 GMT
#390
fyi avoid playing trunk on CAO for the time being, there's some crashing bugs. they claimed my lvl 17 char
it's my first day
srulz
Profile Joined June 2010
6 Posts
January 03 2012 20:56 GMT
#391
On January 03 2012 23:58 crate wrote:
Swiftness plus flight will let you escape the majority of the dangers. Being a Spriggan or Centaur obviously helps also. Don't get abyssed as a Naga. Number one rule is to run and keep running. You can spend a couple turns taking out enemies here and there but unless you're pretty buff your main goal is to find an exit before you run across something like an ancient lich, which means you want to cover as much ground as possible.

Put on defensive jewellery (regeneration is especially nice, and the spell also), equip a weapon with resists if you can. Teleports do work in the abyss but they take a long time.

High MR and T&D skill will help prevent you from getting banished in the first place.

If all else fails, convert to Lugonu if you see an altar. You'll have to endure your old god's wrath, but that may be the better option if Lugonu keeps you alive. Note that Lugonu's wrath involves lots of banishment, so if you convert you're going to stick to Lugonu for some time at least.


Thanks. Though, I guess I still die horribly whenever I got abyssed. Twice in a row now, both awesome chars guess Swiftness/Flight is still key.

On January 04 2012 00:45 crate wrote:
0.10 HOHe easiest-three-rune-win-ever guide:
+ Show Spoiler +
Turn off all skills but invocations at the beginning. Pick up a weapon when you find one (anything but shortblades is fine, though axes have the best aptitude) and equip it. Find some heavy armour and equip that as well. Pacify everything you can unless you are hungry or worse, in which case you should try to get chunks from stuff you can eat and that won't kill you.

Note that pacification takes quite a bit of nutrition, so you probably want to eat permafood if you drop to Near Starving; you need your aa online to not die.

Get Invo to 15 before you turn on any other skills. Once Invo is at 15 you can turn on your weapon skill so you can chop up zombies and J's better. You can turn on fighting and armour a bit later. Keep raising invo though, since it's still your most powerful way to deal with enemies. Get to lair ASAP, pacify all the enemies in lair, now you're maxed out on piety. Once you hit 6* you can start meleeing stuff to death instead of just pacifying everything.

With maxed Ely piety you basically cannot lose unless you get into a really bad spot or do something dumb or starve to death. The only enemies that you have to worry about are slime creatures, so just keep them split up in any way you can (stairdancing does this pretty reliably, if nothing else works). If you need to fight, Divine Vigour gives you about 40-50% more maxhp and you're maxed out on piety so go ahead and pop it if you run into anything tough that is undead or demonic or unpacify-able (Boris is probably the main culprit; you're better off using Divine Vigour and a might potion or something instead of trying to pacify). Use purification and the self-healing abilities liberally, you have plenty of piety to spend.

At invo 20 you can head into Shoals/Snake/Swamp and your greater pacification should be strong enough to pacify anything you run into except Boris, so just go get the runes. After the first rune you grab you should be at about 22 invo, 15 weapon skill, 10 fighting, 8 armour. You can turn on evocations at this point if you want (or earlier if you found a rod.)

Go clear out Orc whenever you want, you get a bonus to pacifying orcs so the only orcs that don't go down to aa are Saint Roka or warlords (you'll almost always pacify sorcerers or high priests in one attempt). If you get the ogre ending you should still be able to aa the ogres but you can use ad if you want since you have tons of piety.

You can actually head straight into elf after orc if you want and your invo skill is ~22 or more, since the elves all have low HP so they're easy to pacify. Greater pacification should work reliably on the dangerous elves. With 25+ invo skill you can pacify ancient liches no problem, as well as use lesser pacification on any dragons you run into, so clearing D and Vault 1-7 is super easy.

Vault 8 requires 1 blinking scroll and a way to haste yourself once, as well as full piety. Put on divine vigour, haste yourself, descend the stairs. Use your blink scroll to go either to the top or the bottom so you get the entire vault guard band on one side of you, then back up and pacify as you go (lesser pacification works unreliably, greater pacification works reliably; start with some greater pacification on the nearest vault guards then use whichever you like on the rest). Once the vault guards are cleaned up the rest of V:8 is pretty easy. You'll need greater pacification on titans and tentacled monstrosities. From there you have three runes so just clear out Zot and go win.

Crypt is actually decently hard since to pacify you will generally have to spend piety. You can clear it out if you want since you can probably cut stuff up by this point, but unless you are seriously in need of some item you can skip it and probably do better.

As far as equipment goes--
You want a two-handed weapon. The main purpose of your weapon is to kill zombies, Js, golems, and orbs of fire. None of these have attacks where a shield helps out, so using a shield is a bad idea. Battleaxes and great maces are good and basically guaranteed. Executioner's axes, triple swords, and bardiches are also good but rarer. Greatsword or glaive is ok but not ideal. A brand is nice but not a big deal; if you find freezing aura/fire brand spells you can take off your armour to learn and cast those and then make the brand permanent, otherwise just make your weapon vorpal.

I find that storm dragon armour is generally the best armour to aim for, since it gives nice AC and, most importantly, gives rElec so you can fight electric golems (which cannot be pacified). If you have rElec from some other source then go for gold dragon armour. If you happen across pearl dragon armour then wear it because you can train dodging and get some decent EV to go with your AC, and you can even pick up some spells in it.

Gourmand is really really good since pacification uses a lot of nutrition. Rage is the other good amulet. Stasis is good to put on so you don't get paralyzed. Conservation is decent as always. Nothing else is important (the only thing that mutates you that you can't pacify is orbs of fire, and you can just get mutated by that point since it's the end of the game).

Rings you only really care about see invis (so you can pacify invisible stuff), resistance rings, slaying, +EV, +AC, or regen. CTele is a huge boon for Vault:8 but disabled in Zot:5 so not that big a deal overall. Wizardry is good if you found PDA or are sticking with one of the lighter dragon armours since it'll let you cast spells.

Acquirement should go toward staves or wands in almost every case. You want hasting or teleportation wands (heal wounds not so much since greater self-healing is basically heal wounds, though if you max evo the wand is the most reliable way to pacify stuff), and all the good rods are good. Only take staff acquirement if you've trained Evo skill some.

You want rF++ and rElec possible for Zot (having to swap is fine). You can probably do Zot with just rF+ and no rElec though it'll be harder, though you do have Divine Vigour to let you tank a lot more damage than most characters.


edit: Won in under 60k turns, by far my fastest win.

Oh hey, thanks for the guide! Going to go play a Troll Healer now
Misder
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1557 Posts
January 03 2012 21:13 GMT
#392
http://pastebin.com/vpKJgSNG

Here's my char dump!

I have a amulet of gaurdian faith, but I dont think it's better than my amulet I have on :/
Whaaaa?
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
January 03 2012 21:17 GMT
#393
Can I train armor and dodging at the same time?

I typically turn off all but my primary weapon skill in the beginning of a game. At what point should I start adding in some dodge or armor? (for a fighter/monk type character)

I've been very liberal with my wand use. Often if I find an early wand of lightning or disintegration, I'll just unload it on the first orgre or ghost I see. Is this okay?

Should I only recharge wands of healing/tele/blink?
beef42
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Denmark1037 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-03 22:08:56
January 03 2012 22:06 GMT
#394
You can but your bonus from dodging is decreased based on the EV penalty of your armour. So you get both the EV penalty, and then your dodging bonus is reduced as well.

There are as many strategies for skill selection as there are players. Obviously getting your main weapon skill to a workable level ASAP is good, but so is putting points in defenses that you'll need soon enough. I don't have a good answer. It varies too much.

Using wands all the time is cool, especially at an ogre that'll slap you for 30 damage if he gets the chance. Damage wands are generally common enough that they can be used rather liberally, especially the weak class. Wands of heal wounds, hasting or teleportation are obviously very valuable and should be the main target of your recharging. Then again, if you find yourself facing off against an Ice Beast with nothing but a recharging scroll and an empty wand of fire, well then there's only one thing you can do right?

crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-03 22:38:40
January 03 2012 22:36 GMT
#395
On January 04 2012 06:13 Misder wrote:
http://pastebin.com/vpKJgSNG

Here's my char dump!

I have a amulet of gaurdian faith, but I dont think it's better than my amulet I have on :/

If you're burdened holding just that, you probably need more Str ... decks are heavy, and carrying just two of them means you're not getting that much out of Nemelex. You can drop some of your food and a few of your scrolls/potions though. You should just eat whenever you're hungry or even before if you want as a spriggan, since you don't gain anything by waiting to eat.

Also, TrHe will be harder than HOHe since the real point of HO is the +2 invo apt (this is why it's a 0.10 guide). You will have to train a skill other than invo early on with most other races probably since your invo probably won't skyrocket to the "pacify-everything" point like it does with HO.

That said, TrHe does do a nice job of killing dudes with claws.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-04 04:33:58
January 04 2012 03:42 GMT
#396
On January 03 2012 07:40 crate wrote:
edit: @Yango (or anyone else who uses a terminal size larger than 80x24), since you're using a big terminal size you probably want to change the size of the viewport (unless you like just not using half of your terminal); you can do this with view_max_width and view_max_height options in your rcfile. Personally I think the default viewport size is fine so I just use 20pt size font so everything is nice and big.

Is there a general guilde to rcfile options somewhere?
Moderator
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
January 04 2012 03:47 GMT
#397
http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=blob_plain;f=crawl-ref/docs/options_guide.txt;hb=HEAD

I think it's also helpful to take a look at other players' rcfiles; you can get the link for anyone on CAO by using the !rc <playername> command with Henzell. MarvinPA's rcfile has a lot of stuff in it, you can view it at http://crawl.develz.org/configs/trunk/MarvinPA.rc
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 04 2012 04:34 GMT
#398
Actually, is there a way to use a different editor for the online rcfiles? -_-

What about macros?
Moderator
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
January 04 2012 04:46 GMT
#399
On January 04 2012 13:34 TheYango wrote:
Actually, is there a way to use a different editor for the online rcfiles? -_-

You can probably write it up wherever you like and then paste it in (certainly works fine with PuTTY, which is how I copied MarvinPA's rcfile).
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
ZaplinG
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3818 Posts
January 04 2012 08:43 GMT
#400
just encountered a shrine for the slime god Jivya for the first time. it sounds pretty rad

im considering leaving beogh on my hopr to try it out any advice?
Don't believe the florist when he tells you that the roses are free
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