EPTPlanetside 2 - Page 141
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On February 08 2013 10:05 daemir wrote: I know. And I'd still take 1 second faster reload over 10 bullets. Fire rate is nice, but better accuracy is as well. But ofc take your own picks, I tried out vanu weapons and they feel better than TR to me. If SOE gives us faction changes, I know I'm going vanu. Better feeling weapons and there's scythe and magrider. Reload speed in Planetside 2 is an extremely situational advantage that only has a small overall effect on the performance of good players (on automatic weapons). On the other hand, damage per magazine is not an advantage that can be traded with skill or any other currency, particularly in the case of TR carbines where you also get additional maximum ammunition from increased magazine size. If you've ever reloaded with less than 10 bullets left, you have experienced an advantageous situation that is literally irreplaceable. Comparing the TTK of weapons in the game to even the lowest reload times does not paint the picture of the practicality of unloading a clip, reloading, and then finishing the opponent off. As far as recoil, it has no effect whatsoever on accuracy, with the exception of very high recoil values (and this is due to making target acquisition very slightly harder because of camera motion, not any direct effect of the recoil itself). Just pull your mouse down faster for higher recoil per second guns. Pull it down slower for lower recoil per second guns. It's all muscle memory. The only exception to this is balanced recoil which you basically can't account for - it's designed to make burst fire necessary rather than optional. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
I don't know how you can say recoil has no effect on accuracy, of course it has. Having a weapon that's easier to manage on recoil means you don't spend time and effort adjusting to it, meaning you are more accurate, especially when there's y-axis aiming required, someone above or below you, someone jumping, LA flies over your head in a duel. Go try out a game like Enemy Territory that has no recoil in guns and tell me aiming isn't easier when you can simply lock your mouse on the y-axis and use super low sensitivity on x-axis to track heads, or just try to sync strafing and aim middle. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
A LA flying over your head in a duel means he is close to you so recoil is even more irrelevant than it would otherwise be. Very high recoil (like an uncerted Gauss SAW) is harmful because when shooting at targets farther away, the rapid camera motion is jarring and interrupts the feedback cycle you use to hone your tracers in on the target, particularly if they are moving. All other recoil is just a glorified captcha that bots are ironically better at than humans. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On February 08 2013 13:59 DefMatrixUltra wrote: My only former FPS experience comes from Quake III and my point about recoil in this game stands. It's all muscle memory. If SOE added 10% recoil to all weapons, would it hurt me? Yes because I would have to relearn firing all the weapons I've learned. If SOE removed 10% recoil from all weapons, would it hurt me? Yes, for the same reason. A LA flying over your head in a duel means he is close to you so recoil is even more irrelevant than it would otherwise be. Very high recoil (like an uncerted Gauss SAW) is harmful because when shooting at targets farther away, the rapid camera motion is jarring and interrupts the feedback cycle you use to hone your tracers in on the target, particularly if they are moving. All other recoil is just a glorified captcha that bots are ironically better at than humans. PS2 weapons have CoF bloom, i.e. even when your cursor is right over the target the shot can still miss. The longer you shoot, the stronger this bloom gets. You can't compensate for that. NC weapons have a bigger bloom per shot, about 20% higher than both TR and VS, making it harder to hit targets with sustained fire and making burst fire extremely important. As TR or VS, the low recoil and lower bloom means you can basically hold your crosshair over the target and still kill with full auto. I wouldn't say it's imbalanced, NC weapons can be stronger than TR or VS weapons with more practice, but they are definitely harder to use and a rank 1 NC player will most likely perform worse than a TR or VS player with the same FPS background and only with a lot of practice it evens out. I played both VS and TR for a few hours each and i was suprised at how easy it was to just full-auto people at midrange with the default guns where i needed to almost single-shot NC guns. Since most players are bad many NC never reach the point where they perform equal to TR or VS, which is why all the forums are full of complainers that refuse to get better. It's like SC2 players picking up BW and complaining about lack of MBS and automining. NC is the hardcore faction. You must be a real man to play for it. | ||
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Rah
United States973 Posts
I've never been impressed with the VS infantry weapons I'll admit other than the lower bullet drop and recoil which only help you initially, but that's what happens when you pick the newb friendly faction. You should have to sacrafice a little power because your newbs will always have an easier time. VS vehicles feel like they can do more, but I like to think that with practice the other factions vehicle pilots can accomplish the same things with maybe more certs and effort or coordination. I've found this to be true with scythe equivalents, but I haven't spent a lot of time in tank battles. These are the thoughts that crossed my mind as I was choosing my faction, I went with TR. The numbers on spreadsheets tell a similar story. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
I'm well aware of player-state COF and COF gained per shot. I was responding to someone claiming that recoil had an effect on their accuracy (which it does not). | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
Right, err okay. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On February 09 2013 07:35 daemir wrote: I'm trying to read your last sentence over and over to make some form of sense to it. So, your crosshair's semi random movement while firing (recoil) has no effect whatsoever on your accuracy (your ability to hit your target). Right, err okay. I think we've found the issue here. You have a misconception that all recoil is random. The only random recoil in the game is the balanced left/right recoil. All other recoil is completely predictable/learnable (like the TRAC-5 that was being discussed). There does seem to be some slight directional (left or right) recoil acceleration on some guns, but again it's just muscle memory. Spend time with the gun and work it out. Recoil that's not left/right balanced is nothing but a barrier of entry (i.e. something you are forced to learn for no real reason). After you learn the pattern, it has no effect on your accuracy. Recoil that is LR balanced is meant to force burst fire and limit effectiveness at range. That's why you see many weapons that should be long-range but have balanced recoil with double forward grip upgrades - they are designed to be used only with those upgrades (bad design imo, but that's how it is). Guns like the CARV and Orion have quite noticeable LR recoil (in conjunction with their high fire rate) in order to limit their ability to deal their high DPS at range. If you want to be That Terran Guy that stereotypically complains about VS guns, you need to be complaining about the Pulsar LSW (which neither TR nor NC have any reasonable counterpart of), not the carbines where Terrans are way out ahead of the pack compared to the other factions. You'll forgive me if I don't continue this discussion much longer. I'd rather use my 1000th post for something a bit meatier. On February 09 2013 09:23 daemir wrote: impressive, you didn't notice the word semi, right before the word random. I also like how you are generalising me to some stereotypic whiner, but I actually tried out all the weapons I talked about (and scythe and magrider) and to me, they all behave, handle and perform superior. For the purposes of this discussion something is either random or it isn't. In this case, weapons like the TRAC-5 have recoil that cannot be described as random. Adding fluff words just clouds the issue and semantics. It would be like saying someone is semi-homosexual. Someone is either homosexual or they aren't. Saying "to me, they all behave [better]" (on the discussion of guns, I'm not getting into vehicle differences) is either an argument from subjective feeling (which I can't affect in any way) or an accusation that the gun stats we've been provided with are wrong. Now the stats could very well all be wrong, and we could all be living a lie, but the things I've worked out so far with gun stats leads me to believe strongly that they are correct, although perhaps incomplete. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
I also like how you are generalising me to some stereotypic whiner, but I actually tried out all the weapons I talked about (and scythe and magrider) and to me, they all behave, handle and perform superior. | ||
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oscar62
Canada417 Posts
as an NC player, the small differences between rifles really pale in comparison to the ability to aim at people's heads. no matter what race you are i think that's the most important thing to do in this game. hitboxes are pretty nutty in ps2 $____$ | ||
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gostunv
Japan1178 Posts
alot of the default weapons, at least for TR, seem to split out like when i take a piss in the mornin so i cant hit shit without being damn close. i find myself at medium range majority of the time and that means they are usually partially covered. cant wait till triple SC day. ill even settle for double SC day. | ||
Spazer
Canada8031 Posts
On February 09 2013 10:55 gostunv wrote: for me the spread of fire is really important to me. alot of the default weapons, at least for TR, seem to split out like when i take a piss in the mornin so i cant hit shit without being damn close. i find myself at medium range majority of the time and that means they are usually partially covered. cant wait till triple SC day. ill even settle for double SC day. It depends on the gun. The Trac-5 (default carbine) is ridiculously good in close to mid range. Doubly so if you cert into the laser. It blows at long range though. Conversely, the Cycler T1 (default AR) is pretty good at mid to mid-long range, and shit at close range. I can't say much about the CARV since I don't really play heavy assault, but honestly, the TR defaults are completely fine at mid range. | ||
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gostunv
Japan1178 Posts
On February 09 2013 12:09 Spazer wrote: It depends on the gun. The Trac-5 (default carbine) is ridiculously good in close to mid range. Doubly so if you cert into the laser. It blows at long range though. Conversely, the Cycler T1 (default AR) is pretty good at mid to mid-long range, and shit at close range. I can't say much about the CARV since I don't really play heavy assault, but honestly, the TR defaults are completely fine at mid range. I want to try the Lynx. I hear its the best carbine. I almost never fire my weapon as a medic so I dont know about the ARs lol. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
combat engineer | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
but not this guy http://www.planetside-universe.com/character.php?stats=peaceho2&tab=PeaceHo2 Makes absolutely no sense to me. Anyone else have links to cheater stats? I had a list of the ones I've seen on Waterson, but it got roasted in a hard disk corruption. Trying to build up some statistically significant data. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On February 11 2013 15:46 DefMatrixUltra wrote: Banned this guy http://www.planetside-universe.com/character.php?stats=xirs&tab=Xirs but not this guy http://www.planetside-universe.com/character.php?stats=peaceho2&tab=PeaceHo2 Makes absolutely no sense to me. Anyone else have links to cheater stats? I had a list of the ones I've seen on Waterson, but it got roasted in a hard disk corruption. Trying to build up some statistically significant data. A 2.8 K/D with a 30% headshot ratio is now cheating? Looks like a normal Infiltrator to me. What the hell would you say about this (imho legit) player: http://www.planetside-universe.com/character.php?stats=Daddy K/D of 40. You can't locate cheaters through stats. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On February 11 2013 16:08 daemir wrote: Well his most played role was heavy assault with 47 kills per hour. I don't know, if it's a brand new player I'd say that's a bit suspect. It's less than a kill a minute, so not really that much. If you just zerg around and follow the big battles instead of playing in an organized platoon, it's easy to get. It's most likely not a new player, just an alternate character. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On February 11 2013 15:52 Morfildur wrote: A 2.8 K/D with a 30% headshot ratio is now cheating? Looks like a normal Infiltrator to me. What the hell would you say about this (imho legit) player: http://www.planetside-universe.com/character.php?stats=Daddy K/D of 40. You can't locate cheaters through stats. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I know for a fact both those players are cheaters, both using the same manner of aimbot. I would not ever claim someone was cheating without significant evidence or seeing it myself. I was simply expressing my confusion over SOE banning one of them but not the other, given that they exhibit very similar behavior (at least from the perspective of playing against them in-game). I am collecting and studying the stats of known cheaters, but I'm trying to get more information so that I can determine for myself whether cheaters can be located reliably through the stats we have available. I'd ask for links on the main forums, but I wouldn't trust anyone there with a fake dollar bill, much less data. I don't see anything weird in that Daddy guy's stats tbh. K/D is a pretty awful stat - it's next to meaningless in this game unless you know how skilled or unskilled the player is beforehand and their normal manner of approaching gameplay. The thing that stands out to me is his headshot rate - he very clearly doesn't play infantry. Just his headshot rate and most played class: engineer explain his K/D. A very large majority of people in the game play as mostly infantry. They tend to have 10% headshot rate - that seems to be the headshot rate from just aiming and firing normally. Some people have 20% (it's rare to find something in between from what I've seen). I would guess these are people that aim more deliberately for headshots or play infiltrator more often. Then there are infiltrators which very commonly show up as most played and have between 20-40 (the ones at 20 tend to have significantly higher vehicle kills - a sign that they play other classes more often than the only-infiltrator guys). These are patterns I've noticed that are statistically significant. That means that anyone outside this pattern is a statistical outlier. I think that you can't ultimately prove cheating based on stats, but you can find statistical outliers. Statistical outliers are either going to be exceptional players, players with a rare playstyle or approach to gameplay, or cheaters. | ||
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