Back on the topic of Legacy. When you invest in the format you have to understand your deck is going to be poorly positioned for awhile and then be positioned well awhile and neutral other times. The meta always shifts and always will. Accepting this and trying to overcome these shortcomings is the best way to go about it. I played with Bobby Kovacs when I played Legacy, Many pros refer to him as one of the best if not the best lands player in the US, and his deck gets hit hard by the same cards that hate on reanimator, dredge...etc but he adapted his deck when Reanimator was the big thing and has since shifted it to the Thespian stage combo. It's the same deck with the same shell it just adapts over time and it's retained the same 54ish cards no matter what.

EscPlan9

United States2777 Posts

January 08 2014 15:59 GMT

#10062

I just recently got back into playing MTG. I used to play it like 12 years ago in high school where I played it very casually with friends of mine.

I've done some reading and started building my first competitive budget deck - a mono-red aggro deck. Often called "red deck wins" (RDW). I'm having trouble against decks that have a lot of creature removals that delay me for a while and then they bring in some monstrous creatures my weenie aggro guys can't take on or evade (especially with the plentiful creature removal).

Against a deck like that, what types of changes should I make? I've been trying to take out some creature buff cards since I rarely can get my creatures to last long enough to buff them anyways with that much removal and just end up with creature buff cards in my hard doing nothing. I added in more direct damage spells like Shocks and Skullcracks (already running 4 Lightning Strikes), and I also added in a couple Act of Treasons to steal some of the monster creatures.

Not home at the moment so can't post my full deck, but it's your typical RDW deck of 1 and 2 droppers. However, I do not have Boros Reckoner since it's so expensive (like $10 each last I checked).

Any suggestions on dealing with these sorts of decks given my RDW one?

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

January 08 2014 16:07 GMT

#10063

For RDW purposes, I recommend net-decking

RDW is somewhat of a dice-roll every game so it's important to be rolling the exact right dice. Depending on the format (Standard it sounds like) the dice are already probably loaded against you.

I'm not really current on standard though so I can't give you any specific recommendations sorry.

Gorsameth

Netherlands22425 Posts

January 08 2014 16:09 GMT

#10064

Since the most played deck atm in standard is Mono-Black and it has access to 20+ removal spells if it wants to aggro decks have to pray they get through fast enough.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

January 08 2014 16:11 GMT

#10065

Gary and Revelation pretty gud cards. Make RDW sad.

eluv

United States1251 Posts

January 08 2014 16:43 GMT

#10066

One easy way to make pure mono-Red (and not the gruul/boros/naya stuff floating around) is 4 mutavaults. They dodge any of the sorcery speed removal, notably supreme verdict, and essentially represent an extra creature you can play on turn 2-3.

slOosh

3291 Posts

January 08 2014 16:58 GMT

#10067

@Shotcoder
How often would you say the metagame shifts? I would think it does when legacy playables come in with new sets (recently DRS and abrupt decay), but does it change a lot in between as well, like standard?

@EscPlan9
Against decks that are heavy on creature removal, you definitely want to side your buff cards out (or depending on where you play maybe even move them from main to side). I think reckoner is only good against decks with aggressive creatures (like a mirror matchup), and heavy removal decks usually don't run those.

@eluv
Mutavaults are pretty good but they are also very expensive due to the popularity of mono X decks and you can't run a full 4 of without diluting your mana base (I think, not too sure). Maybe a better alternative is chandra's pheonix? It occupies the 3 slot, has haste so you are good for 2, and you can get it back from graveyard.

MCMcEmcee

United States1609 Posts

January 08 2014 17:08 GMT

#10068

Legacy shifts every few weeks, you just have to wait out the sideboard hate every now and then. Or just play delver!

With no reckoners I would play 3-4 mutavaults in rdw.
Mutavault and Phoenix are your best cards against decks with a lot of removal.

Haven't played a game of standard since gp dfw, might be time to practice again before a ptq next week. Leaning towards Rwb burn/"control" > monoblue > UWx control. Mostly just due to current prep level and matchup expectations.
Probably just going to keep cubing instead.

MoonBear

Straight outta Johto18973 Posts

January 08 2014 20:38 GMT

#10069

Regarding Legacy, it's also important to note that this also depends a lot on where you play. If you play competitively, then you need to keep up with all the new tech and meta-shifts and respond accordingly. However, in local groups people may not have massive collections or have access to a large enough card pool to just keep swapping cards, let alone entire decks around.

So for example, that guy who plays Stoneforge is might always rock up with Stoneforge since all those Jaces cost a lot. So you might end up with very localised metas which may be very stagnant or follow its own pattern different to the competitive scene.

From a more general perspective (and perhaps what you were asking about?), typically new sets don't drastically change the Legacy meta very much. Because Legacy involves people playing the best cards around, a lot of cards that are really important in Standard are considered too weak for Legacy. For example, a few months ago cards like Thragtusk dominated. But in Legacy it'd be way too slow and underwhelming. People would probably laugh if you tried to play it.

There are exceptions of course ([url=http://magiccards.info/rtr/en/141.htmlAprupt Decay[/url] and [url=http://magiccards.info/rtr/en/213.html]DRS[/url] coming to mind). But again, the Legacy card pool is so wide and powerful that people find ways to adapt and move on. It's not very common that entire archetypes of decks become invalidated just because a new set has been printed.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

January 08 2014 20:57 GMT

#10070

Basically very few cards make it into the competitive Legacy pool, I think Deathrite Shaman was the last big creature to make it in from a traditional set.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

January 08 2014 21:03 GMT

#10071

Okay but Griselbrand, Emrakul, Vengevine, Thalia, snapcaster, and Stoneforge are all reasonably recent and are/were pretty important. Some lesser ones too like leonin relic warder, leonin arbiter, etc. I guess it depends on your definition of recent but it's not like all that many lands and spells make it either, just a select few per set.

MCMcEmcee

United States1609 Posts

January 08 2014 21:46 GMT

#10072

Thragtusk probably sees as much legacy play as snapcaster at this point. Might even be more.

EscPlan9

United States2777 Posts

January 09 2014 03:26 GMT

#10073

On January 09 2014 01:58 slOosh wrote:
@EscPlan9
Against decks that are heavy on creature removal, you definitely want to side your buff cards out (or depending on where you play maybe even move them from main to side). I think reckoner is only good against decks with aggressive creatures (like a mirror matchup), and heavy removal decks usually don't run those.

@eluv
Mutavaults are pretty good but they are also very expensive due to the popularity of mono X decks and you can't run a full 4 of without diluting your mana base (I think, not too sure). Maybe a better alternative is chandra's pheonix? It occupies the 3 slot, has haste so you are good for 2, and you can get it back from graveyard.

I did mention I was making a somewhat budget deck... so Mutavault is out of the question at the moment. Don't feel like dropping $100 to get 4 cards. My most expensive card at the moment is Ash Zealot. Chandra's Phoenix isn't too pricey and you make a lot of good points - flying, haste, and returns back to my hand whenever I cast an instant or sorcery is a pretty sweet deal and for only 3 mana.

Good point about Boros Reckoner not being good against creature removal decks. I only mentioned Boros because I run a mostly standard RDW deck, just without Boros which is in nearly all competitive RDW decks.

I already dumped a good $50 in amassing tons of good red cards, so I hope at the very least if RDW doesn't work out for me, I can still build another solid red deck without dropping too much more money.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'll keep play testing my deck against the mono-black creature removal one and adjusting.

Whole

United States6046 Posts

January 09 2014 09:05 GMT

#10074

How will they divide the packs in Sealed when BotG comes out? Will it be 3 Theros, 3 BotG or something like 4 Theros, 2 BotG?

deth2munkies

United States4051 Posts

January 09 2014 15:17 GMT

#10075

On January 09 2014 18:05 Whole wrote:
How will they divide the packs in Sealed when BotG comes out? Will it be 3 Theros, 3 BotG or something like 4 Theros, 2 BotG?

3/3 then 2/2/2 when the 3rd set comes out.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

January 09 2014 15:53 GMT

#10076

They're not doing some kind of special themed packs?

monx

Canada1400 Posts

January 09 2014 16:09 GMT

#10077

how does one practice sealed ? it seems quite expensive but id like to practice a bit since ill probably play in the montreeal grand prix....(im still very noob tough)

Fishgle

United States2174 Posts

January 09 2014 16:28 GMT

#10078

Magic is an RPG where money is XP.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

January 09 2014 16:32 GMT

#10079

I wonder what they are putting in that new event deck to make it cost $75 MSRP.

mordek

United States12705 Posts

January 09 2014 17:02 GMT

#10080

On January 10 2014 01:09 monx wrote:
how does one practice sealed ? it seems quite expensive but id like to practice a bit since ill probably play in the montreeal grand prix....(im still very noob tough)

http://copper-dog.com/mtg-generator/2013-theros/

Or just google other sealed simulators.