EPThe has such gigantic bags under his eyes
NBA Playoffs 2010 - Page 76
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
he has such gigantic bags under his eyes | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13530 Posts
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Make7UpYours
893 Posts
On May 20 2010 23:08 RowdierBob wrote: I haven't seen either Laker games, but are they shooting ridiculously hot or are the Suns giving up uncontested layups constantly? 60% and 57% on FGs for the first two games is pretty sick. It's mostly the failure of the Suns' defense. Amare's giving up everything to Pau and Odom and the Suns' frontline is undersized and overmatched in general. Kobe's also proved unguardable; scoring at will in game 1 when single-covered, finding the open man in game 2 when doubled. It isn't helping that the Suns' plan to help off Artest backfired in game 2. | ||
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x2fst
1272 Posts
gasol does what he wants vs amare and kobe is playing sooo well ever since the jazz series, his passing was really good in game 1 too. he's breaking the defense down pretty easily and creating good shots for his teammates, he's also gotten to the rim due to the variety of moves he's utilizing, he's really showcasing that insane skillset of his without taking unnecessary low % shots. really good to see him playing this way if they play the celts in the finals i'll be super curious to see how kobe goes, he had a really brutal series in 2008 vs them and a lot of it was him trying to do too much. he seems to have complete faith in pau of late which is a really good sign. should be a great boston/la finals if that ends up happening | ||
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
Phoenix is so disorganized on offense and defense. They can't even run their pick and roll properly yet. They really need to change their game plan. On May 20 2010 14:22 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I don't know that he can. You can say that he's a much better offensive talent than Odom, but Odom is a much better player in all other facets, i.e. defense, rebounding, and passing. Sure Odom doesn't score 30 ppg, but he also doesn't play in the PHO system with Nash serving him up easy baskets as the #1 scoring option. However, I'll concede that most people think that Amare is a better player, so I'll give you that. However, arguing that Amare is better than Gasol throughout his career just doesn't hold up in my eyes. One of the two has led a team to multiple gold and silver medal finishes. One of the two has an NBA championship ring. One of the two is actually a two-way player that excels in more than just scoring. One of the two can creating offense for his teammates, dominate the boards, and be a defensive presence in the paint that can deter or block shots in the paint. I think you can figure out which is which. You can't even say that Amare is clearly better by looking at their career stats (particularly since these stats ignore pace and the fact that one is the first option on offense paired with one of the best PGs the game has ever seen while the other has to share the ball with one of the best scorers the game has ever seen): 18.8 ppg 9.0 rpg 3.2 apg 0.5 spg 1.7 bpg 52.1 FG% 74.3 FT% 21.4 ppg 8.9 rpg 1.0 apg 0.9 spg 1.4 bpg 54.4 FG% 75.8 FT% If you look at stats, the numbers are more in Amare's favor if you use playoffs. And a lot of those seasons Amare was coming off of terrible injuries which would end most peoples career so the average doesn't represent his best. They also shoot the same amount per game so in this context the offense scheme of either team. Especially since the Laker's have a great offense. Amare doesn't look his best in this series so far, but Amare was a top 3 player in the NBA in the 2nd half of this season, better than Gasol or Kobe this season, which is why he will get a max contract somewhere. Do you think if Gasol was a FA anyone would give him the max? One aspect you did not mention is that the style Amare scores is much more valuable. He can score in any situation. He creates for himself and is a top finisher in the game. The way he runs the pick and roll is the best for any big man. Amare is a great passer also but you just don't see it often because why pass when you are in the middle of dunking... but when he does pass it is very high quality in terms of quickly finding an opening and accuracy. Amare can break defenses down and force them to readjust to mismatches, so offensively he is miles ahead of Gasol. Sadly it has not happened this series yet  | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Also he isn't miles ahead of Gasol offensively. If I had to draft a team from scratch and I had to look at Power Forwards throughout the league to play with my other superstars I think I'd take Gasol. He doesn't need the ball to be effective on offense. Hell, the only real major knock on Gasol's career was the 2008 finals against Boston. I doubt Amare would have done even half as good vs that Boston team and I could see this current Suns team being swept by them. | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On May 21 2010 03:07 Servolisk wrote:If you look at stats, the numbers are more in Amare's favor if you use playoffs. And a lot of those seasons Amare was coming off of terrible injuries which would end most peoples career so the average doesn't represent his best. They also shoot the same amount per game so in this context the offense scheme of either team. Especially since the Laker's have a great offense. Amare doesn't look his best in this series so far, but Amare was a top 3 player in the NBA in the 2nd half of this season, better than Gasol or Kobe this season, which is why he will get a max contract somewhere. Do you think if Gasol was a FA anyone would give him the max? One aspect you did not mention is that the style Amare scores is much more valuable. He can score in any situation. He creates for himself and is a top finisher in the game. The way he runs the pick and roll is the best for any big man. Amare is a great passer also but you just don't see it often because why pass when you are in the middle of dunking... but when he does pass it is very high quality in terms of quickly finding an opening and accuracy. Amare can break defenses down and force them to readjust to mismatches, so offensively he is miles ahead of Gasol. Sadly it has not happened this series yet Amare is clearly one of the most devastating offensive players in the league, but that's just one aspect of the game. His poor defense is pretty well-known and has been exposed particularly in this series against the Lakers. People can point to his block and steal numbers, but we all know those are fool's gold and don't disprove what we see on the court. He's not a great rebounder either, which is one of those stats that should be a bit inflated by the pace at which the Suns play at. He's not bad at it, but I don't think you can call it a strength either. I have to admit that I haven't seen Amare's passing ability on display, but I don't think I've ever heard or read anywhere that it's something he's shown a knack for or impressed people with. That could definitely be attributed to the fact he plays with Nash, but I don't think we can assume he's good at it until he shows enough of it. We also can't ignore the fact that Pau is a great offensive player himself. He may not be at Amare's level in his ability to put points on the board, but Pau has proven himself to be one of the most offensively gifted big men to play the game. Like Amare, Pau has a good mid-range shot, can face-up most other bigs and take them off the dribble, and break defenses down by drawing doubleteams. Amare is a ridiculous dunker (seriously, I know it but it still shocks me everytime I watch him tear the rim apart in games) but Pau has a very refined back-to-the-basket postgame that allows him to score on anyone in the NBA. So, in the end, it appears to me that the comparison between Amare and Gasol comes down to whether a person thinks that one-dimensional incredible offensive ability trumps great offensive ability with a well-rounded skillset. Also, let's face it, Pau being 7 feet tall and having long arms to match is an advantage he has over Amare. Amare has the athleticism and speed going for him, but height and size is important for a big guy in the NBA. Further, while it's not something that we can really measure, Pau seems to be a much smarter player with a higher basketball IQ, while Amare pretty much sticks to his role as a scoring machine and doesn't seem to have a great grasp of the other aspects of the game. I know you think that Amare is underrated, but I think he is a bit overrated because scoring gets all the glory, while things like defense, passing and rebounding are given secondary consideration. I definitely think he was being overrated when he was being discussed as a MVP candidate or top 3-5 player in the league. Sure he was scoring at a ridiculous rate, but guys who have been considered to be top 3-5 have usually been more well-rounded. When I hear top 3-5, I think of guys like Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Durant, Duncan, KG, pre-MIA Shaq, healthy Yao, Deron, Paul, Nash, etc. All of those guys can score very well, but they can do either at least one other thing really well (i.e. Nash) or are more well-rounded in general. Even Melo, who is considered a one-dimensional scorer, has demonstrated that he can play pretty good defense when he puts his mind to it. I just don't see Amare as being at that level. | ||
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
On May 21 2010 06:15 Ace wrote: what? Amare was a top player via stats but not top player via actual game play. Also he isn't miles ahead of Gasol offensively. If I had to draft a team from scratch and I had to look at Power Forwards throughout the league to play with my other superstars I think I'd take Gasol. He doesn't need the ball to be effective on offense. Hell, the only real major knock on Gasol's career was the 2008 finals against Boston. I doubt Amare would have done even half as good vs that Boston team and I could see this current Suns team being swept by them. Amare can't defend, but he is a little better offensively, but you are right on, Gasol is a much better player. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
I know that's open to debate, but that's not my point. | ||
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Make7UpYours
893 Posts
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On May 21 2010 08:35 Zozma wrote: Amar'e's refusal to defend the roll is making Gasol look like the best big man in the NBA, but Gasol is definitely really skilled either way. That pick and roll in general is really hard to defend. I don't think anyone is blaming Amare for that, there is no excuse for his defense in straight up no gimmick situations, aka the top of the key or perimeter defense (cutting off dribbling/passing lanes). The other problem is his rebounding, when was the last time you saw him in the paint fighting for a rebound? Size or not, you can't just lay down and expect the Laker bigs to get it. He had 6 Boards in 40 mins which is pretty shitty considering Lopez had 6 in less than 20 mins of play. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
On May 21 2010 08:54 XaI)CyRiC wrote: Well considering that Millsap is 6'8" and Boozer is 6'9" while Amare is 6'10", and both the former were able to collect a lot of rebounds against this same Lakers frontcourt, I dont' see that Amare has much excuse to be boarding so badly. I realize that players' heights are constantly misstated, but they're arguably at least the same size, with Amare having superior athleticism to balance against being not as physical. Amare can run the floor and dunk and that is about it. You bring up a good point, Amare is struggling when other people of similar height, and skill (booser) did not. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 21 2010 08:45 Judicator wrote: That pick and roll in general is really hard to defend. I don't think anyone is blaming Amare for that, there is no excuse for his defense in straight up no gimmick situations, aka the top of the key or perimeter defense (cutting off dribbling/passing lanes). The other problem is his rebounding, when was the last time you saw him in the paint fighting for a rebound? Size or not, you can't just lay down and expect the Laker bigs to get it. He had 6 Boards in 40 mins which is pretty shitty considering Lopez had 6 in less than 20 mins of play. The pick and roll isn't hard to defend. It's players that are lazy that keep getting beat by it. Watch a good defense team destroy the pick and roll and you notice that both players on defense are active and talking. "Pick right!" and "Pick left!" are the basics of communication in PNR defense. If your teammate doesn't know he's about to get picked then yea, you're both gonna get fucked ^_^. | ||
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On May 21 2010 09:17 Trezeguet23 wrote: If the celtics go up 3-0 toinght, do you guys think there is even the slightest chance that the magic can come back, or do you think that they can win 4 straight? I know they did it twice already, but to me the celtics are just too tough in boston. I'd be surprised if ORL could come back from 2-0 considering both losses were on their homecourt. If they go down 3-0, it's almost a certainty that they're done. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 21 2010 09:17 Trezeguet23 wrote: If the celtics go up 3-0 toinght, do you guys think there is even the slightest chance that the magic can come back, or do you think that they can win 4 straight? I know they did it twice already, but to me the celtics are just too tough in boston. Put it like this: when they beat Boston in 7 last year I thought they under accomplished. A Boston with no KG - Orlando SHOULD have beaten them in 6 if they were that good at abusing match ups. This year? Not a shot. Boston and LA really look like the only teams that showed up to win. | ||
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