On February 15 2011 15:22 NicolBolas wrote: User-friendliness and challenge have nothing to do with each other. You can make very easy games that are hard to play solely because the controls are terrible or unintuitive. Similarly, you can make very challenging games that have simple, intuitive interfaces.
There are many, many games made that are hard. Especially nowadays, with so much indie crap out there. It's easy to make something hard; it's much more difficult to make something with legitimate challenge. Challenge imposed by the rules of gameplay rather than arbitrary fiat.
I find a strong correlation between the two, especially when someone brings up RTS. However, you do bring up a good point with console controllers.
I wasn't talking about the indie crap, I was talking about the mainstream developers.
On February 15 2011 15:06 ZlaSHeR wrote: Dude, I just watched that video and went thru some stuff, thats Seb Rhee? Lol he's like best friends with my cousin, lol holy crap I never really correlated that Seb isn't a common name wow. I saw a picture of him commentating for something and was like omg I know him. woooow
Yep, Seb from FADC Seb is Sebiel Rhee. Small world, that's pretty cool. :p Good to see him capturing vids again, though his vs. series knowledge is a bit behind.
Players are always going to complain about any game being more user-friendly. There are very few games out there being developed that provide an extreme challenge for players.
User-friendliness and challenge have nothing to do with each other. You can make very easy games that are hard to play solely because the controls are terrible or unintuitive.
If the game is hard to play it is hard period. Seriously read your phrase again it doesn't make any sense. An easy game hard to play ? lol
The game might boring, repetitive, or uninteresting though but that's another issue.
That's something that many Sc2 players never understand with bw and it seems that the same thing will happen with MvC 3 vs MvC 2.
Marvel vs Capcom 3 is to Marvel vs Capcom 2 as Starcraft 2 is to Brood War
Both sides have their 'elitist communities' as well as a game that caters to casuals.
also remotevirus3(360) for me but im going to be in training mode all night, I WOULD be on my PSN but capcom screwed me over so my order is going to come in for a long time D:
Players are always going to complain about any game being more user-friendly. There are very few games out there being developed that provide an extreme challenge for players.
User-friendliness and challenge have nothing to do with each other. You can make very easy games that are hard to play solely because the controls are terrible or unintuitive.
If the game is hard to play it is hard period. Seriously read your phrase again it doesn't make any sense. An easy game hard to play ? lol
The game might boring, repetitive, or uninteresting though but that's another issue.
That's something that many Sc2 players never understand with bw and it seems that the same thing will happen with MvC 3 vs MvC 2.
Why should he re-read his own post when you clearly didn't read all of his in the first place?
Legitimate challenge doesn't involve the player fighting the controls in addition to the game mechanics. Ever play those old Atari/Coleco Vision/Arcade games? That's a very important distinction when the community likes to rage against "user-friendly". I don't know about you, but I call games that hard to play because of shitty control implementation, a piece of shit release.
So out of curiosity, what team is everyone using right now, and more importantly, why?
I am going with the odd little combination of Super Skrull, Amaterasu, and Dormammu.
Between his teleport, his Dhalsim-like reach, and the fact that everyone one of his moves reeks of his desire to mess you up, I have found I really enjoy him. Not to mention all of the supers on this team can connect into any of the others (the level 1s at least). And his assist lasts forever and is great for zoning with the other two characters.
With Dormammu I just got lucky that MvC3 characters are all viable. I picked him purely based on the fact that I am a huge Dr. Strange fan. However poking around on SRK has shown me that he actually has a combo that will kill any character in the game in one run through (except sentinel, whom it will just reduce to about to die) but it requires your x-factor...
Amaterasu is the most bizzare character I have played yet. Her weapons are great and giver her options depending on her range, but I think her close and mid game are lacking. Thankfully her level 1 super is pretty damn good (almost instant in air, can be combo'd into from her projectile, full screen), her projectile might be one of the best in the game (8 seperate hits so it eats most other projectiles I have seen) and it is safe. With super skrull's assist it is a bitch to approach her from anywhere but overhead, and that just gives me time to switch weapons.
Players are always going to complain about any game being more user-friendly. There are very few games out there being developed that provide an extreme challenge for players.
User-friendliness and challenge have nothing to do with each other. You can make very easy games that are hard to play solely because the controls are terrible or unintuitive.
If the game is hard to play it is hard period. Seriously read your phrase again it doesn't make any sense. An easy game hard to play ? lol
The game might boring, repetitive, or uninteresting though but that's another issue.
That's something that many Sc2 players never understand with bw and it seems that the same thing will happen with MvC 3 vs MvC 2.
Why should he re-read his own post when you clearly didn't read all of his in the first place?
I have read his post several times and it still doesn't make sense. An easy game can't be hard to play. It is self-contradictory i'm sorry. You can dislike it if you want, you can say it is ugly / boring / dumb / bad / whatever but it is still hard lol.
On February 16 2011 00:47 Judicator wrote: Legitimate challenge doesn't involve the player fighting the controls in addition to the game mechanics.
"Legitimate challenge", now that's intriguing. And actually that's the real problem what you are calling "legitimate challenge" is just your own opinion about the game difficulty and what level of difficulty is acceptable for you. But i don't think that your own opinion is more "legitimate" than mine, maybe because i like my games harder ?
On February 16 2011 00:47 Judicator wrote: Ever play those old Atari/Coleco Vision/Arcade games? That's a very important distinction when the community likes to rage against "user-friendly". I don't know about you, but I call games that hard to play because of shitty control implementation, a piece of shit release.
A piece of shit can be hard to play and that was my point. Calling a game easy and blaming the controls for the difficulty is ridiculous. Controls are part of the game. At least you could try to say "less complex" instead of easy.
I still fail to see how Sc2 and MvC 3 are more complex than bw and MvC 2 but at least don't spout non sense like "easy game but hard to play because of controls".
This kind of rubbish is extremely offensive for bw or MvC 2 players who have spend years mastering the game and the controls.
On February 16 2011 01:22 Boblion wrote: A piece of shit can be hard to play and that was my point. Calling a game easy and blaming the controls for the difficulty is ridiculous. Controls are part of the game. At least you could try to say "less complex" instead of easy.
An easy game with hard mechanics would be like playing Terran vs a rank D Protoss player. Easy PZ.
Also, get your elitism out of here. Talk about MVC3.
BTW, this ArsTechnica review shows how to review MvC3 for casuals.
I didn't even know about this part:
The review As a middle finger to cheaters, the online service will start to match you up with other rage-quitters if you continually exit games you're about to lose, leading to a situation where the idiots play against the assholes. We approve.
As do I
"Legitimate challenge", now that's intriguing.
I'm a programmer. For me, programming is relatively easy (it should, after 20+ years). If you break my fingers however, the act of programming becomes much more difficult for me. My ability to envision the source code in my head has not changed. My knowledge of debugging techniques has not diminished. You have simply made it harder for me to actually type the code into the computer.
You can make anything harder if you handicap the player; that doesn't mean it's a good idea. If you kneecapped every runner before a marathon, they'd find it a lot harder to cross the finish line. That doesn't make it a legitimate form of difficulty.
I'm gonna be picking this up for the 360 after my first set of classes today are done, though I have another class from 6pm-9pm so I won't get to play much today. Really looking forward to playing, even though I'm gonna be awful (my stick got delivered yesterday and I'm not used to using it at all). If anyone wants to play any matches my XBL is Zaxro.
EPT
