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On February 24 2010 13:54 xMiragex wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 06:44 Judicator wrote:On February 24 2010 02:12 xMiragex wrote:On February 24 2010 01:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 24 2010 00:51 kiykiy wrote:
Wow.. they really made wow easy compared to around season 1-season 2 Dude you have no idea, they have changed it so much since wow first came out :| You can get mounts at lvl 20! Level 20! I remember at 20 I was running stockades and didn't even have a mount and had to wait till level 40 for one... oh all that time wasted walking and running  Raiding is a joke now too. Like i havent found anything comparable to the old raids much less AQ40 or Naxx 40. I love how noobs were spouting out at first "omg Ulduar is hard like Naxx 40". i face palmed so much during those days. This is a misconception a lot of old players away from the game have. Hard modes are legitimately hard, Ulduar hard modes were "hard", many of the top guilds struggled with Yogg-25 Hard Modes with many claiming the hardest wasn't possible (sounds like AQ40 C'thun huh?). The majority of the whiners were people who were 6/9 BT before 3.0 and got spoiled by the 3.0 patch. Before oldies bring up the "world firsts took so much longer than nowadays" argument, yeah, because 90% of the bosses you faced you couldn't do without Resistance gear; it's like the hard mode bosses are any less technical than in vanilla or required looser execution. Farming gear didn't take skill. Ask any guild that did Yogg25-0 during that patch, that shit wasn't a cakewalk or remotely easy. If you're breezing through normal mode, go do hard modes, they're pretty solid encounters if you're looking for a good challenge. Normal modes will always be easier than anything that vanilla or BC had at its lowest levels. That being said, I do think that nothing will beat the 4H encounter in Naxx40. Im still playing and i still fail to see your point. C'thun HAD to get nerfed to be killable. Your resistance arguement is also BS specially considering AQ40 and Naxx (besides Saph). Huhuran you only need like 150 NR and that was buffed if i remember right. 4 Horsemen was the encounter that took the longest for any guild to kill since their first encounter, which was 6 days (unless im misinformed). You didnt even need resistance for it. I doubt the top guild took 6 dedicated raid nights or more to kill yogg 25 only.
You're misinformed about Yogg-25-0, it was 1 month at least before an Asian guild Stars took the world first on 0 Keepers Yogg. And it was nerfed multiple times in the months leading up to it, alot like C'thun huh? Same with Alganon but shorter time and not nerfed iirc.
Resistance gear is BS what? You're overlooking the fact that the top guilds had full sets on everything already going into AQ40 and Naxx. You never obviously had run new recruits through MC to get their (hopefully only their) T2 pants so they can move through BWL, and 150 NR wasn't a 1 week thing and certainly not a ONLY thing for 15 people. You bring up AQ40 and Naxx but you fail to realize how tiered and strict the progression was, not to mention how fucking useless (compared to now) Warlocks, Shadow Priests, Hunters were. Then stack on the overpowered nature of DKs (no theat worries, no death worries, no aoe/single target worries) at launch of course players are going to say raiding is easier (as intended by Blizzard at launch).
I might have only mentioned Resistance gear specifically but there were TONS of shit that just limited how fast you can beat a dungeon that were outside of raiding (attunement, keys, etc). Now it's just roll in and roll it up if you are dedicated.
My point is that the hard mode fights in WotLK isn't lolraiding like people like to say it is. Your raid and you will be challenged, it's not a bad system, shitty guilds won't succeed in most of the hard modes and you'll feel rewarded like you did in vanilla rather than the early parts of BC. So oldies out there shouldn't feel like the game got so dumbed down on the high-end part.
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Don't drink and drive
Don't smoke
Don't do drugs
Don't commit crimes
Those rules are reasonable, but for the love of god guys (and susie) the most important one is:
Don't play WoW, it ruins your life
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On February 25 2010 02:22 xMiragex wrote:Consumables are NOT easier to get for sure. Giving both shamans and paladins to both factions was retarded and made things easier while taking out an uniqueness from each faction while raiding and pvping (well pvp is not the point). I agree that wipe recovery is much faster but also you dont take into account the things blizz to make the game easier. Yes more players are well informed on how to maximize their class but things like changing shield block from a 6 sec CD to a 40 sec CD basically just removed something from warriors that made them EASIER to play. Id bring in dual spec into this but it IS a nice thing, which makes raiding easier, i personally wouldve restricted the other spec for PvP only since that was supposedly one of the big reasons it was implemented. As for the 4 horsemen thing, then why do people say, "omg that fight is such a hard gear check" and now you come out that the fight was retarded.
Hahaha, consumables aren't easier? Is that a joke? Do you realize how long farming for max consumables at 60 took? I'm not even talking about farming onyxia for heads either. Potions not on CD, oils, fewer food buffs (individual not feasts). Don't throw a blanket statement at me. I'm well aware of mechanic changes and things of that nature, but don't just say "you dont take into account the things blizz to make the game easier", because unless you give an example, it's meaningless.
My assumption is that you don't play a warrior tank. The change to shield block didn't change the number of keystrokes used to tank or the difficulty involved with it. Every attack macro'd with shield block and heroic strike so you'd spam them anyhow. Classes have become more in depth. They took a step back in BC and many classes were delegated to similar rolls as Vanilla where it was a a short dps rotation. WotLK has made every class with more usable talents and abilities in combat. It might make certain mechanics seem easier, but in reality it's just people using the new depth of their characters. As far as 4 horseman, my point is that gearchecks are retarded. Hard enrage timers such as Brutallus I'm fine with. 4 Horseman was something else. Requiring 8 warrior tanks with t3 isn't fun or difficult, it's merely annoying and ultimately a waste of time.
edit: I wont clog up the thread anymore on this topic. Everybody hurry up and hit 80 :O
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Wait you had no problem with Brutallus insta-gibbing your tank because of bad luck?
4H was fun to follow namely because it required great tank switching and you actually felt like you accomplished something when you executed the very technical fight, kill order-tank switching, etc. The requirements were a bit steep, but it was in line with what they could/were doing at the time. It was a very technical gear check, so people didn't complain about it.
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ok so i've finally managed to get a decent connection here, i should start grinding in one or two days.
So, is there anyone left interested in inviting me so we can lvl together?
I'm going to play drood heal or feral depending on my mood and since i'm quite of a gank... erm pvp player, a nasty minded rogue would be more than welcome. But any class would do the trick
pm me if interested
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Just throwing my 2 cents on the raiding:
Raiding in wrath isn't nearly what it was in BC and BC wasn't anything like what it was at level 60. People forget that there was no threat meter (well there was but it sucked) to be doing 400 dps was EXTREMELY top end, and for the most part, people were ignornant about the game. That's why boss fights were hard, not because we had LOL 1SHOT Algalon or LOLRAIDDAMAGE twins.
Heck, even in BC things were so different, back then a complex rotation was like, 3 buttons, with maybe potion cooldowns, and well...that was about it. Things were much more focused on moving out of stuff (heck half of the 80's today couldn't do a BC fight back then due to all the stuff that had to be watched for) and they worked on different mechanics. I personally never got to do EXTREME hard content in BC (IE: M'uru and KJ, although I did a few pulls on M'uru).
Today, things are so much more spam and dps oriented. Heck, right now, i could go online, input my stats, and a calculator could spit out an entire fight with the rotation and the expected dps. You didn't really have stuff like that, even in BC. However, I won't deny ulduar hardmodes weren't difficult, although many of them were either luck or execution based, minus hodir, but even his checks weren't that hard.
Personally I don't like the way WotLK is moving, I preferred the BC style of raiding, but some people do like it I guess. And not having to raid 5x5 is nice. Anyways, i'll roll something and drop by, because i can't afford 55$ right now for a server/faction change .
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My question for you is did any of you get to yogg on the first week of ulduar...my guild spent 17 hours to down him and the next week it was night and day the nerfs they put on him. We 1 shot it...While this isn't the same as Cthun Yogg was HARD the first week. Also 1 Light before the nerfs was pretty difficult ie the hardest hard mode we tried. I quit before we ever worked on 0 light. Anyways Hardmodes are Difficult while it may not be Naxx 60/cthun hard (mostly due to bad itemization on gear tbh) it's no cakewalk. TBH it's too hard to compare the 2 times because the game is so different now.
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On February 25 2010 09:12 iSiN wrote:
My question for you is did any of you get to yogg on the first week of ulduar...my guild spent 17 hours to down him and the next week it was night and day the nerfs they put on him. We 1 shot it...While this isn't the same as Cthun Yogg was HARD the first week. Also 1 Light before the nerfs was pretty difficult ie the hardest hard mode we tried. I quit before we ever worked on 0 light. Anyways Hardmodes are Difficult while it may not be Naxx 60/cthun hard (mostly due to bad itemization on gear tbh) it's no cakewalk. TBH it's too hard to compare the 2 times because the game is so different now.
This is basically my point, i know hard modes arent a cake walk but we're never gonna get anything that difficult (well instances as a whole).
On February 25 2010 05:52 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
My assumption is that you don't play a warrior tank. The change to shield block didn't change the number of keystrokes used to tank or the difficulty involved with it. Every attack macro'd with shield block and heroic strike so you'd spam them anyhow.
I have played a warrior and its easier with the change to shield block now. Maybe you're a heavy macro user you didnt notice anything but there was a difference. Even now im against Heroic Strike macroing cause of rage starvation for a sec or 2 and ruining my tps. I dont tank in WotLK anymore but ive tanked enough where i can tell and ive experienced it myself.
I know how farming for consumables was at 60, i did it myself. It was fine tbh, yes its less farming for consumables cause of feasts but it was not an absurd task.
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planning on joining you guys in a few weeks actually
friend and i will probably be rolling priest + mage and leveling with RAF
is there any class/role that the guild particularly is short on?
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i hate wow. wasting so much time playing it.
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On February 25 2010 09:59 xMiragex wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 09:12 iSiN wrote:
My question for you is did any of you get to yogg on the first week of ulduar...my guild spent 17 hours to down him and the next week it was night and day the nerfs they put on him. We 1 shot it...While this isn't the same as Cthun Yogg was HARD the first week. Also 1 Light before the nerfs was pretty difficult ie the hardest hard mode we tried. I quit before we ever worked on 0 light. Anyways Hardmodes are Difficult while it may not be Naxx 60/cthun hard (mostly due to bad itemization on gear tbh) it's no cakewalk. TBH it's too hard to compare the 2 times because the game is so different now. This is basically my point, i know hard modes arent a cake walk but we're never gonna get anything that difficult (well instances as a whole). Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 05:52 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
My assumption is that you don't play a warrior tank. The change to shield block didn't change the number of keystrokes used to tank or the difficulty involved with it. Every attack macro'd with shield block and heroic strike so you'd spam them anyhow. I have played a warrior and its easier with the change to shield block now. Maybe you're a heavy macro user you didnt notice anything but there was a difference. Even now im against Heroic Strike macroing cause of rage starvation for a sec or 2 and ruining my tps. I dont tank in WotLK anymore but ive tanked enough where i can tell and ive experienced it myself. I know how farming for consumables was at 60, i did it myself. It was fine tbh, yes its less farming for consumables cause of feasts but it was not an absurd task.
My point was that a lot of the reasons raiding was Harder was because the gear was less streamlined Spirit on Paladin gear anyone?
If the gear was less optimum and yogg wouldn't have gotten nerfed then I'm sure it would have taken just as long as it took to kill Cthun. Also it was so hard to have 40 completely competent raiders back thenIt's really Apples and Oranges.
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On February 25 2010 08:53 Kaialynn wrote:
Personally I don't like the way WotLK is moving, I preferred the BC style of raiding, but some people do like it I guess.
I bet you havent played warlock back then. Raiding with a lock at vanilla/bc was the most boring thing ever, it was like [shadowbolt * 5-8 (depending on the regen given by the raid) - life tap ]. Unless you had the best stuff ever, then you could swap SB for inci. It vas just great. Now some people will say "yeah but fights were more nervous etc". maybe, probably not. Raid encounters always use the same actions:
*for everyone
-dodging static aoe (magmadar)
-or boss/character centered aoe
-dodging slow blasts (voidreaver; mimiron)
-disabling people who are mc
* DPS
- fast switch ( whatever adds who need to get nuked as fast as possible)
- long switch (tougher adds)
- sometime several kind of class are assigned to specific targets (lady deathwisper)
- offensive dispell
-defensive dispell (if the healers got their hand full)
- counterspell
*HEAL
- raid
- tank
- group
- defensive dispell
- offensive dispell (if nothing else to do)
- counter spell
Since i'm not a tank, i wont list what they have to do, but it should not involve more than 5-6 possible tasks.
There might be several missing, but the point is: nothing new under the sun, every mmo rely on these actions, they were already here during vanilla and the won't disapear in the next 5 years.
In icecrown citadel fights are dynamics, music is great, the design too, no class got only rotten fights (ie: spamming one skill during evey fight). What more to ask?
Finally i'll add that i like people who rand because wow is easy; top tier guilds beat the shit out of arthas hm in 45min bla bla bla, but are these guys all in millenium and co?
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On February 25 2010 11:05 Groslouser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2010 08:53 Kaialynn wrote:
Personally I don't like the way WotLK is moving, I preferred the BC style of raiding, but some people do like it I guess. I bet you havent played warlock back then. Raiding with a lock at vanilla/bc was the most boring thing ever, it was like [shadowbolt * 5-8 (depending on the regen given by the raid) - life tap ]. Unless you had the best stuff ever, then you could swap SB for inci. It vas just great. Now some people will say "yeah but fights were more nervous etc". maybe, probably not. Raid encounters always use the same actions: *for everyone -dodging static aoe (magmadar) -or boss/character centered aoe -dodging slow blasts (voidreaver; mimiron) -disabling people who are mc * DPS - fast switch ( whatever adds who need to get nuked as fast as possible) - long switch (tougher adds) - sometime several kind of class are assigned to specific targets (lady deathwisper) - offensive dispell -defensive dispell (if the healers got their hand full) - counterspell *HEAL - raid - tank - group - defensive dispell - offensive dispell (if nothing else to do) - counter spell Since i'm not a tank, i wont list what they have to do, but it should not involve more than 5-6 possible tasks. There might be several missing, but the point is: nothing new under the sun, every mmo rely on these actions, they were already here during vanilla and the won't disapear in the next 5 years. In icecrown citadel fights are dynamics, music is great, the design too, no class got only rotten fights (ie: spamming one skill during evey fight). What more to ask? Finally i'll add that i like people who rand because wow is easy; top tier guilds beat the shit out of arthas hm in 45min bla bla bla, but are these guys all in millenium and co?
For tanking it's pretty much
-keep aggro (aoe aggro can be hard depending on fight and what class you are)
-taunt off main tank(or off tank) after certain stacks of debuff
-kite
-some times they switch it up and it's don't keep aggro on certain things while keeping it on others
-pop cool downs when healers are busy
-stay stacked on other tank(s)
-don't turn Ony sideways
that's about it
EDIT: Are there a plenty of ppl just leveling? I wouldn't mind going back to WoW to level a character before Cataclysm hits, got 2 80s, but I don't feel like raiding, just levelling with ppl ^^
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United States22883 Posts
On February 24 2010 14:50 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2010 13:54 xMiragex wrote:On February 24 2010 06:44 Judicator wrote:On February 24 2010 02:12 xMiragex wrote:On February 24 2010 01:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:On February 24 2010 00:51 kiykiy wrote:
Wow.. they really made wow easy compared to around season 1-season 2 Dude you have no idea, they have changed it so much since wow first came out :| You can get mounts at lvl 20! Level 20! I remember at 20 I was running stockades and didn't even have a mount and had to wait till level 40 for one... oh all that time wasted walking and running Raiding is a joke now too. Like i havent found anything comparable to the old raids much less AQ40 or Naxx 40. I love how noobs were spouting out at first "omg Ulduar is hard like Naxx 40". i face palmed so much during those days. This is a misconception a lot of old players away from the game have. Hard modes are legitimately hard, Ulduar hard modes were "hard", many of the top guilds struggled with Yogg-25 Hard Modes with many claiming the hardest wasn't possible (sounds like AQ40 C'thun huh?). The majority of the whiners were people who were 6/9 BT before 3.0 and got spoiled by the 3.0 patch. Before oldies bring up the "world firsts took so much longer than nowadays" argument, yeah, because 90% of the bosses you faced you couldn't do without Resistance gear; it's like the hard mode bosses are any less technical than in vanilla or required looser execution. Farming gear didn't take skill. Ask any guild that did Yogg25-0 during that patch, that shit wasn't a cakewalk or remotely easy. If you're breezing through normal mode, go do hard modes, they're pretty solid encounters if you're looking for a good challenge. Normal modes will always be easier than anything that vanilla or BC had at its lowest levels. That being said, I do think that nothing will beat the 4H encounter in Naxx40. Im still playing and i still fail to see your point. C'thun HAD to get nerfed to be killable. Your resistance arguement is also BS specially considering AQ40 and Naxx (besides Saph). Huhuran you only need like 150 NR and that was buffed if i remember right. 4 Horsemen was the encounter that took the longest for any guild to kill since their first encounter, which was 6 days (unless im misinformed). You didnt even need resistance for it. I doubt the top guild took 6 dedicated raid nights or more to kill yogg 25 only. There were many fewer man guilds pushing content at 60 than there were at 70 and now 80. Content isn't easier, but RAIDING is. Wipe recovery, class balancing, consumables, instance design, etc have all improved drastically. Less time consuming, but not necessarily a matter of difficulty. The min/maxing is more prevalent because you don't need to sacrifice for professions/specs/farming like you used to. Regardless of the difficulty of encounters, the ceiling on extremism needed was lowered.
Hard mode encounters are just as hard and in many cases harder than many 60 raid bosses. Yogg+0 was extremely hard pre-nerf. From a mechanic and execution stand point it is more difficult than 4 Horseman in my opinion. 4 Horseman simply required the right raid composition and gear. Hope your guild has 8 prot warriors w/ t3, because if you don't then you're not going to down it. That's not difficult, that just means it's stupid. What about Gothik? The difficulty of 4H was overrated (lol) because of the stupid tank requirements (especially so for H) but it wasn't a difficult fight, per se. Once tanks learned how to execute switches, they should've been able to do it 10/10 times from then on out, and the DPS was totally secondary.
Caster side Gothik, on the other hand, was the most technical fight I ever experienced, including most of BC and WotLK to Ulduar. I'm not sure how it would've been handled without RDX, at the gear point it's given at.
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Phantom theres quite a few people leveling
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3861 Posts
Phantom, most are in their 20's into 30's now. Plenty of people to level with and dungeon with, everyone is welcome 
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hmmm, cool i'mma in then! i'll look for you guys
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leveling up a druid named funke, please invite
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I might just take the 7 day free and join, see what's up =) Have to download the entire client though
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I remember I wished for a guild like this back when I used to play WoW! if you do play WoW, make sure you move server now and join up!
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EPT
