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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
But even if you were completely right that SC2 players aren't training as hard as they could be training and that this makes the competition less fierce, the fact that Flash and Jaedong haven't switched over doesn't make the competition a farce. To me, this article is just fueling SC2 fans' hatred and misunderstanding of Brood War fans. edit: The one point that this article supports that I agree with is that a regular SC2 teamleague would improve the competition. | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
Also, the number of whiners coming out to take their potshots make me chuckle. | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On May 12 2011 15:13 Two_DoWn wrote: Only this would be like NFL players going back to college football. For some reason people continually deny this fact: SC2 is not a different game from BW. The mechanics are the same. The concepts are the same. Only everything in SC2 is easier. Are there new units and strategies? Sure. But it isnt as though knowing when to expand and when to attack is somehow lost in translation. This. I need to stop reading this thread as it's giving me a headache. MVP used his knowledge of when to attack and expand and etc to become one of the best terrans in SC2. MVP was NOT very good at knowing when to attack exp and etc in BW, yet his abilities were still good enough to become a top SC2 terran. Now think of the people who play BW and are GOOD at knowing when to attack, expand and etc and you might understand. But most people will not read this or will write it off. | ||
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slytown
Korea (South)1411 Posts
Points. 1. SC2 is young. It might impress you more later on, as SC1 and BW probably did. Skill is historically contextual and right now, MVP is looking like the best Terran in the world (at least TvT  ).2. SC2 is too easy of a target because of the graphics. Some people will just not like something new and flashy. "These damn kids and their new things. Back in my day..." 3. Getting good at something takes up a lot of your time. I doubt you know specifically how much each player you mentioned puts into either SC1/BW/SC2 or the reasons why, but its too easy to simply look at the numbers and say someone should have done badly at SC2. | ||
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GrapeD
Canada679 Posts
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PorwegianNussy
2 Posts
The longer the Broodwar players wait to transfer over, the more time that gives these young prodigies chances to improve. Also, on an unrelated note: For a while everyone was using MC as an example of just how good broodwar players are. All the sudden he's beaten by ret and Thorzain, and people stop making that argument. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On May 12 2011 15:13 Dfgj wrote: Flash won his OSL title on 150308. His first televised game was 150307, precisely one year earlier - and he most certainly was on a team before that, and practicing as such. This is by TLPD and memory, so I (or it) might be a bit off. The case of Flash is a bit weird. Wasn't he still going to high school after he got televised matches? I think it's better to just say that Flash was not a great or good or mediocre player during his first year with BW, and right now most people are approaching a year with SC2. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
What I mean by that is, if you mis-micro and end up in a hole in BW, you're down 6 bases and have half his supply, beasts like Flash can pulll themselves out of a seemingly unwinnable scenario and come back, not by cheesing back into the game but by simply being better mechanically. In SC2 if you're a zerg who's down in suppply to a 200/200 protoss with a deathball despite whatever special tactics you employ, they can a-move into you and kill you. Because of this disparity, BW enables better mechanics to allow you to win when you really shouldn't be able to. I'm not saying you can't come back in SC2, that's not what I'm getting at. I just gave one example of where mechanics in BW can help you in a way that mechanics in SC2 can't. They're similar games, and the point is very well made that the people currently playing SC2 aren't BW A-teamers, but I still don't think SC2 has developed enough as a game (my entire argument could be invalid after HotS if the new units allow for a higher skillcurve) yet to begin to say that BW mechanics can be converted to SC2 to compare how good or not good someone will be at SC2 if they played it. | ||
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Carson
Canada820 Posts
On May 12 2011 14:36 hmunkey wrote: Thank you for saying what needed to be said. This was an excellent read. My biggest fear is that if SC2 does take off, the foreign scene will die instantly. There is no way in hell any NA/EU payer could compete with a well-practices Flash or JD in SC2. And if the SC2 scene doesn't take off in a big way, it won't be around for much longer than a year. Interesting thoughts, with NA events being popular for sc2, do you still think that is true? | ||
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
but it's a different game and sc2 was A LOT more competitive than when sc1 came out. But it makes sense that the hard working/driven players from BW switching over to sc2 would create a more fierce competition but at the same time so did adding talented WC3 pros that switched to the sc2 scene. I don't particularly enjoy the purpose of the article, seemed like it subconsciously try to hinder the growth of the sc2 scene (but that's just my opinion). I think that some of the BW pros would make the switch flawlessly and would dominate in time but at the same time I think some won't. Some have been playing BW too long and might not like to learn or adapt to the changes of a new game. Some might be stuck on BW too much and lose their passion, and making the switch only to follow the scene. I believe that some of the pros in BW now are very passionate about BW because they grew up watching it and loved playing it while a more passionate sc2 player could take their place. Also, you have to remember the scene is still a bit young. What drove these BW players to practice the way they do and how they approach the game? competition, salaries, and many tournaments/leagues. As the sc2 scene grows or gets more competitive, players mindset and practice habits will change with it. When sc1 started it didn't magically go *POOF* and the competition produced jaedong mindset players. | ||
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I)etox
1240 Posts
On May 12 2011 15:12 Ruscour wrote: Does it really matter? The scene is alive, the game is new, everything's growing and esports is penetrating the mainstream in the West like it never has before thanks to SC2. I don't understand why the discussion is so important to people. Well written to the OP, hopefully we see less threads about it now. It's important if you want to see SC2 to become as competitive and as long lasting as BW is. eSports is growing in the west? Great. But if the game and players don't push themselves then the scene will stagnate. Players right now can't let themselves become complacent. Don't discount the OP just because you don't like the "snobby" tone. It brings up some great points that need to be addressed if SC2 is going to be a mainstay of eSports. | ||
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Firkraag8
Sweden1006 Posts
Flash/Jaedong is not, and never will be unique. There will always be people like this, and they won't always make their start in Broodwar. And if Flash/Jaedong don't make the switch to SC2 soon then they will not have a chance to beat these new prodigys which has played SC2 for a lot longer. | ||
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
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CDRdude
United States5625 Posts
On May 12 2011 15:09 IntoTheWow wrote: NaDa and July would take exactly 0 bo5 series from Jaedong and Flash. I think that July would actually have a small but nonzero shot at taking out flash in a series. His aggressive earlygame should do quite well against flash's desire to cut corners for a better economy. With a bit of luck in the build orders, he'd have a shot. And I think we all know July isn't afraid of 4pooling in high pressure situations. | ||
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kinray
Bulgaria49 Posts
What i mean is that SC:BW became the game we know now sometime around 2001 (I might be wrong with the exact year but i think it's not by too much) and this is 3 years after release of SC:BW. So don't you think that we still need about the same time until we have the same level of balance in SC2? | ||
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ShLiM
Bulgaria178 Posts
Obviously the current A-teamers when they switch will dominate sc2, even a 6yrs old boy, can tell you that. | ||
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
On a side note, this thread while fun was kinda a "no duh" moment. Yes A-class SC1 players are about the same as the current cream of the crop SC2 players. Yes S-class players will destroy everyone and...? | ||
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garbanzo
United States4046 Posts
I think it would be exciting to see what the scene would be like a year from now. I think it definitely is showing promise, but it's just so volatile right now to be an interesting competition. | ||
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mitthrawn
Germany443 Posts
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Crais
Canada2136 Posts
BTW TL FE so fucking gooooood | ||
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