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I'm (still) really surprised and embarrassed to be an SC2 fan considering the flaming and hate the OP is getting.
Only, that's not really the case, more-so in the foreign scene but even in the Korean scene, the BW players only obviously had a head start because of the similarities of the game early on, now if you look at it, you have former BW pros doing well, former BW pros doing poorly, non-BW players doing well, non-BW players doing poorly, and everything in between. The current top players in SC2 aren't all players from BW, and it's still the first year or so.
No, every top player in BW is amongst the *very top* of SC2 right now. July, Nada, Boxer, Rainbow, as the OP describes if you actually read his post, were old news when SC2 came out and had horrible records as of recently. MVP, Nestea, MC, Fruitdealer, were the best BW players when SC2 was released that now play SC2.
I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP.
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On May 13 2011 11:50 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:39 d_so wrote:On May 13 2011 11:34 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:On May 13 2011 11:27 d_so wrote:On May 13 2011 11:25 Sideburn wrote:
When you consider that the pro BW scene is so incredibly incredibly tiny compared to something like, say, the pro soccer scene... well, it could be argued that there are likely a large number of people all over the world that could walk into BW and dominate after a few months of practice. This totally cheapens BW for me. Watching Flash and Jaedong just isn't the same when I know there are people out there who could beat them but aren't.
Wait, what? see, the reason why you're wrong is cuz everyone DID try. and failed. Flash and Jaedong are the evolution of Koreans first dominating the world and then cannibalizing each other. They represent an untouchable divide not just between current bonjwa/former bonjwa and Pro/Amateur, but also Korea vs the rest of the world. Clever approach though. On May 13 2011 11:26 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:
I'd also like to point out that SCBW can hardly be called an international e-Sport anymore. People who say that the reason the SCBW washouts switched was because SC2 is "more fun" (assuming easier) is biased. The competition is getting bigger definitely; with all the international events. As Artosis and Tasteless pointed out, foreign gamers are all very talented, it's just that they never got the opportunity to play SCBW as the Koreans did. Saying that SCBW pros are better than SC2 pros is like saying that foreigners will never stand a chance against Koreans in SCBW, and that is just ignorant. 11 years of evidence says otherwise. Again; biased. In the beginning of SC and SCBW, everyone started in a level playing field. The Koreans was obviously the first to make it a "sport". Thus, the rest of the world who wanted to participate in this movement had to catch up. Can you call someone who had the opportunity to train specifically for a particular game "better" than someone who couldn't? I'm not sure how i'm being biased. I think you're being ignorant of the facts. Realize that in the beginning there were tons of foreign pro BW players (that's what Teamliquid was in the first place). They competed pretty much on a level playing field with the Koreans, but the Koreans kept getting better. Second, your argument is flawed. If someone gets a head start, they're forever unassailable as leaders? Market leaders stay the leaders forever? Please read your post before replying. It's really annoying to read the same thing over and over from you without any evidence or relevance. First, you totally evaded my point of "the rest of the world had to catch up". I meant that Koreans get to practice with other competitive players in teams and has a schedule dedicated to playing SCBW. I think the term is called a "pro". Please provide specific examples of your "tons of foreign pro BW players". Your second statement sounds like a blind follower. That supports my argument actually. Thus, SC2 pros having a "head start" in SC2 means that SCBW pros won't be able to catch up.
actually, you're the one not doing the reading. Remember, my first claim is that you're ignorant of the facts. Yes, there were many foreign pros. Please take the time to peruse through this page: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/international/players . Or http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=90628. Or the countless blog entries by retired pros that I can't recall right now but have actually read.
You know what you're doing, right? You're arguing ignorantly then asking me for proof. Go look it up. There are histories recorded on this very site and TL was a big part of it from the start.
The second point is clearly false. Just cuz the leader gets to practice and perpetuate their leadership doesn't necessarily equate to an unassailable leadership position.
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On May 13 2011 11:54 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:34 Sideburn wrote:On May 13 2011 11:27 d_so wrote:
see, the reason why you're wrong is cuz everyone DID try. and failed. Flash and Jaedong are the evolution of Koreans first dominating the world and then cannibalizing each other. They represent an untouchable divide not just between current bonjwa/former bonjwa and Pro/Amateur, but also Korea vs the rest of the world.
Clever approach though.
11 years of evidence says otherwise. Everyone did try and fail? Less than 0.005% of the world population has even played BW. So it would be more accurate to say that NO ONE has tried. There is a huge untapped reservoir of BW talent out there that could switch and dominate the scene! This cheapens it! There are better basketball players then Lebron James, we just havn't seen them play ..! Yeah, keep deluding yourself.
Deluding myself to believe what though? I'm sure there are people out there who could play better than Lebron. I'm sure there will be people in the future who will play better than him too.
I just don't get the point of talking about people who could be better. What is the take home message? "There are better players out there. They'll be coming so... yeah man, you better watch out... and... ummmmm...."
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On May 13 2011 11:18 Hinanawi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:13 teamsolid wrote:On May 13 2011 11:08 aimaimaim wrote:
Just so you guys know, TL isn't your fruity little club for SC2. Regardless of how many people came for SC2, before that, TL.net was just doing fine and dandy. Really? Says the guy who joined TL in 2010. ... If posts like these don't get warnings, then there's a real bias here. Personally, I think the article is mostly accurate, although somewhat exaggerated. However, I honestly don't see how the article brought up an "elephant in the room". I think most people who watch SC2 haven't even considered what the OP brought up until this article was written. An "elephant in the room" is when everyone knows full well something, but willfully decide to ignore it, which is hardly the case here for most people. A lot of people who watch SC2 don't even know who Flash and Jaedong are, and that's just sad. They should.
Why should I be interested in people who play a game I don't care about?
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On May 13 2011 11:55 Belial88 wrote:I'm (still) really surprised and embarrassed to be an SC2 fan considering the flaming and hate the OP is getting. Show nested quote +Only, that's not really the case, more-so in the foreign scene but even in the Korean scene, the BW players only obviously had a head start because of the similarities of the game early on, now if you look at it, you have former BW pros doing well, former BW pros doing poorly, non-BW players doing well, non-BW players doing poorly, and everything in between. The current top players in SC2 aren't all players from BW, and it's still the first year or so. No, every top player in BW is amongst the *very top* of SC2 right now. July, Nada, Boxer, Rainbow, as the OP describes if you actually read his post, were old news when SC2 came out and had horrible records as of recently. MVP, Nestea, MC, Fruitdealer, were the best BW players when SC2 was released that now play SC2. I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP.
I think it's because the layout of it was very similar to the "BW is a better game than SC2" thread.
Honestly though, MC makes alot more money than Flash does, so I don't really see why money alone would keep the top players to BW.
If they really think they can smash everyone at SC2, they could probably make more money at it.
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Flash, JD, Bisu all obviously would destroy in any game they switched too as long as they could make use of their talents and practice. I'm wondering more if people like Fantasy and Stork would do as well in sc2.
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On May 13 2011 11:54 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:34 Sideburn wrote:On May 13 2011 11:27 d_so wrote:
see, the reason why you're wrong is cuz everyone DID try. and failed. Flash and Jaedong are the evolution of Koreans first dominating the world and then cannibalizing each other. They represent an untouchable divide not just between current bonjwa/former bonjwa and Pro/Amateur, but also Korea vs the rest of the world.
Clever approach though.
11 years of evidence says otherwise. Everyone did try and fail? Less than 0.005% of the world population has even played BW. So it would be more accurate to say that NO ONE has tried. There is a huge untapped reservoir of BW talent out there that could switch and dominate the scene! This cheapens it! There are better basketball players then Lebron James, we just havn't seen them play ..! Yeah, keep deluding yourself.
Lebron will never be as good as Michael Jordan was at the height of his career, and neither will anyone else. NBA is a total farce.
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On May 13 2011 11:59 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:55 Belial88 wrote:I'm (still) really surprised and embarrassed to be an SC2 fan considering the flaming and hate the OP is getting. Only, that's not really the case, more-so in the foreign scene but even in the Korean scene, the BW players only obviously had a head start because of the similarities of the game early on, now if you look at it, you have former BW pros doing well, former BW pros doing poorly, non-BW players doing well, non-BW players doing poorly, and everything in between. The current top players in SC2 aren't all players from BW, and it's still the first year or so. No, every top player in BW is amongst the *very top* of SC2 right now. July, Nada, Boxer, Rainbow, as the OP describes if you actually read his post, were old news when SC2 came out and had horrible records as of recently. MVP, Nestea, MC, Fruitdealer, were the best BW players when SC2 was released that now play SC2. I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP. I think it's because the layout of it was very similar to the "BW is a better game than SC2" thread. Honestly though, MC makes alot more money than Flash does, so I don't really see why money alone would keep the top players to BW. If they really think they can smash everyone at SC2, they could probably make more money at it.
Do you sit in your chair and come up with ways to spread misinformation? Flash makes over 250K JUST FROM HIS SALARY! This doesn't even factor 6 Broodwar finals + WL finals + PL finals + WCG.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51103 Posts
On May 13 2011 11:59 br3ak.g0d wrote:
Flash, JD, Bisu all obviously would destroy in any game they switched too as long as they could make use of their talents and practice. I'm wondering more if people like Fantasy and Stork would do as well in sc2.
uhhh firstly stork is in the same level as Flash,JD and Bisu.Yes Fantasy would do well in SC2 but not just because hes good but because if he does play SC2 he'll autojoin SlayerS.:p
On May 13 2011 12:00 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:54 setzer wrote:On May 13 2011 11:34 Sideburn wrote:On May 13 2011 11:27 d_so wrote:
see, the reason why you're wrong is cuz everyone DID try. and failed. Flash and Jaedong are the evolution of Koreans first dominating the world and then cannibalizing each other. They represent an untouchable divide not just between current bonjwa/former bonjwa and Pro/Amateur, but also Korea vs the rest of the world.
Clever approach though.
11 years of evidence says otherwise. Everyone did try and fail? Less than 0.005% of the world population has even played BW. So it would be more accurate to say that NO ONE has tried. There is a huge untapped reservoir of BW talent out there that could switch and dominate the scene! This cheapens it! There are better basketball players then Lebron James, we just havn't seen them play ..! Yeah, keep deluding yourself. Lebron will never be as good as Michael Jordan was at the height of his career, and neither will anyone else. NBA is a total farce.
what sweet sweet denial.
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On May 13 2011 11:59 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:55 Belial88 wrote:I'm (still) really surprised and embarrassed to be an SC2 fan considering the flaming and hate the OP is getting. Only, that's not really the case, more-so in the foreign scene but even in the Korean scene, the BW players only obviously had a head start because of the similarities of the game early on, now if you look at it, you have former BW pros doing well, former BW pros doing poorly, non-BW players doing well, non-BW players doing poorly, and everything in between. The current top players in SC2 aren't all players from BW, and it's still the first year or so. No, every top player in BW is amongst the *very top* of SC2 right now. July, Nada, Boxer, Rainbow, as the OP describes if you actually read his post, were old news when SC2 came out and had horrible records as of recently. MVP, Nestea, MC, Fruitdealer, were the best BW players when SC2 was released that now play SC2. I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP. I think it's because the layout of it was very similar to the "BW is a better game than SC2" thread. Honestly though, MC makes alot more money than Flash does, so I don't really see why money alone would keep the top players to BW. If they really think they can smash everyone at SC2, they could probably make more money at it.
Err flash makes at least 200k a year on salary alone. that doesn't include tournament winnings/other sponsherships etc. MC has only made around 150k this year.
And I have a slight problem with the OP. It says former bonjwa iloveovv.
FORMER BONJWA? I WAS NOT AWARE HE WAS REMOVED FROM THE BONJWA LIST.
bastards. But no, actually I agree with the overall thread. I really want to see someone like Paralyze switch
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On May 13 2011 11:57 Sideburn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:54 setzer wrote:On May 13 2011 11:34 Sideburn wrote:On May 13 2011 11:27 d_so wrote:
see, the reason why you're wrong is cuz everyone DID try. and failed. Flash and Jaedong are the evolution of Koreans first dominating the world and then cannibalizing each other. They represent an untouchable divide not just between current bonjwa/former bonjwa and Pro/Amateur, but also Korea vs the rest of the world.
Clever approach though.
11 years of evidence says otherwise. Everyone did try and fail? Less than 0.005% of the world population has even played BW. So it would be more accurate to say that NO ONE has tried. There is a huge untapped reservoir of BW talent out there that could switch and dominate the scene! This cheapens it! There are better basketball players then Lebron James, we just havn't seen them play ..! Yeah, keep deluding yourself. Deluding myself to believe what though? I'm sure there are people out there who could play better than Lebron. I'm sure there will be people in the future who will play better than him too. I just don't get the point of talking about people who could be better. What is the take home message? "There are better players out there. They'll be coming so... yeah man, you better watch out... and... ummmmm...."
Yeah I agree... The whole point of the OP is kind of.. unclear.
There are better players who might be better at this game because op says so, and they won't be coming because they think they make more money playing what they do now, but if they would come, they would maybe smash everyone because they practise alot.
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On May 13 2011 12:02 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:59 Euronyme wrote:On May 13 2011 11:55 Belial88 wrote:I'm (still) really surprised and embarrassed to be an SC2 fan considering the flaming and hate the OP is getting. Only, that's not really the case, more-so in the foreign scene but even in the Korean scene, the BW players only obviously had a head start because of the similarities of the game early on, now if you look at it, you have former BW pros doing well, former BW pros doing poorly, non-BW players doing well, non-BW players doing poorly, and everything in between. The current top players in SC2 aren't all players from BW, and it's still the first year or so. No, every top player in BW is amongst the *very top* of SC2 right now. July, Nada, Boxer, Rainbow, as the OP describes if you actually read his post, were old news when SC2 came out and had horrible records as of recently. MVP, Nestea, MC, Fruitdealer, were the best BW players when SC2 was released that now play SC2. I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP. I think it's because the layout of it was very similar to the "BW is a better game than SC2" thread. Honestly though, MC makes alot more money than Flash does, so I don't really see why money alone would keep the top players to BW. If they really think they can smash everyone at SC2, they could probably make more money at it. Err flash makes at least 200k a year on salary alone. that doesn't include tournament winnings/other sponsherships etc. MC has only made around 150k this year. And I have a slight problem with the OP. It says former bonjwa iloveovv. FORMER BONJWA? I WAS NOT AWARE HE WAS REMOVED FROM THE BONJWA LIST. bastards. But no, actually I agree with the overall thread. I really want to see someone like Paralyze switch
MC has made about 164k in 4 months.
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On May 13 2011 12:03 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 12:02 1Eris1 wrote:On May 13 2011 11:59 Euronyme wrote:On May 13 2011 11:55 Belial88 wrote:I'm (still) really surprised and embarrassed to be an SC2 fan considering the flaming and hate the OP is getting. Only, that's not really the case, more-so in the foreign scene but even in the Korean scene, the BW players only obviously had a head start because of the similarities of the game early on, now if you look at it, you have former BW pros doing well, former BW pros doing poorly, non-BW players doing well, non-BW players doing poorly, and everything in between. The current top players in SC2 aren't all players from BW, and it's still the first year or so. No, every top player in BW is amongst the *very top* of SC2 right now. July, Nada, Boxer, Rainbow, as the OP describes if you actually read his post, were old news when SC2 came out and had horrible records as of recently. MVP, Nestea, MC, Fruitdealer, were the best BW players when SC2 was released that now play SC2. I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP. I think it's because the layout of it was very similar to the "BW is a better game than SC2" thread. Honestly though, MC makes alot more money than Flash does, so I don't really see why money alone would keep the top players to BW. If they really think they can smash everyone at SC2, they could probably make more money at it. Err flash makes at least 200k a year on salary alone. that doesn't include tournament winnings/other sponsherships etc. MC has only made around 150k this year. And I have a slight problem with the OP. It says former bonjwa iloveovv. FORMER BONJWA? I WAS NOT AWARE HE WAS REMOVED FROM THE BONJWA LIST. bastards. But no, actually I agree with the overall thread. I really want to see someone like Paralyze switch MC has made about 164k in 4 months.
You're assuming that will continue. Flash probably makes 300-400k a year when you take everything into account. MC would literally have to keep it up for the next 5-6 months to out pace Flash.
(and somehow I don't see him doing that as he is consistentely starting to be knocked out more and more)
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51103 Posts
On May 13 2011 12:03 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 12:02 1Eris1 wrote:On May 13 2011 11:59 Euronyme wrote:On May 13 2011 11:55 Belial88 wrote:I'm (still) really surprised and embarrassed to be an SC2 fan considering the flaming and hate the OP is getting. Only, that's not really the case, more-so in the foreign scene but even in the Korean scene, the BW players only obviously had a head start because of the similarities of the game early on, now if you look at it, you have former BW pros doing well, former BW pros doing poorly, non-BW players doing well, non-BW players doing poorly, and everything in between. The current top players in SC2 aren't all players from BW, and it's still the first year or so. No, every top player in BW is amongst the *very top* of SC2 right now. July, Nada, Boxer, Rainbow, as the OP describes if you actually read his post, were old news when SC2 came out and had horrible records as of recently. MVP, Nestea, MC, Fruitdealer, were the best BW players when SC2 was released that now play SC2. I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP. I think it's because the layout of it was very similar to the "BW is a better game than SC2" thread. Honestly though, MC makes alot more money than Flash does, so I don't really see why money alone would keep the top players to BW. If they really think they can smash everyone at SC2, they could probably make more money at it. Err flash makes at least 200k a year on salary alone. that doesn't include tournament winnings/other sponsherships etc. MC has only made around 150k this year. And I have a slight problem with the OP. It says former bonjwa iloveovv. FORMER BONJWA? I WAS NOT AWARE HE WAS REMOVED FROM THE BONJWA LIST. bastards. But no, actually I agree with the overall thread. I really want to see someone like Paralyze switch MC has made about 164k in 4 months.
the amount of money he makes is not even stable.If he slumps now how won't make any money because all his money is from tournment winnings,oGs's sponsors does not pay its players any salaries.
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On May 13 2011 11:57 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:50 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:On May 13 2011 11:39 d_so wrote:On May 13 2011 11:34 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:On May 13 2011 11:27 d_so wrote:On May 13 2011 11:25 Sideburn wrote:
When you consider that the pro BW scene is so incredibly incredibly tiny compared to something like, say, the pro soccer scene... well, it could be argued that there are likely a large number of people all over the world that could walk into BW and dominate after a few months of practice. This totally cheapens BW for me. Watching Flash and Jaedong just isn't the same when I know there are people out there who could beat them but aren't.
Wait, what? see, the reason why you're wrong is cuz everyone DID try. and failed. Flash and Jaedong are the evolution of Koreans first dominating the world and then cannibalizing each other. They represent an untouchable divide not just between current bonjwa/former bonjwa and Pro/Amateur, but also Korea vs the rest of the world. Clever approach though. On May 13 2011 11:26 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:
I'd also like to point out that SCBW can hardly be called an international e-Sport anymore. People who say that the reason the SCBW washouts switched was because SC2 is "more fun" (assuming easier) is biased. The competition is getting bigger definitely; with all the international events. As Artosis and Tasteless pointed out, foreign gamers are all very talented, it's just that they never got the opportunity to play SCBW as the Koreans did. Saying that SCBW pros are better than SC2 pros is like saying that foreigners will never stand a chance against Koreans in SCBW, and that is just ignorant. 11 years of evidence says otherwise. Again; biased. In the beginning of SC and SCBW, everyone started in a level playing field. The Koreans was obviously the first to make it a "sport". Thus, the rest of the world who wanted to participate in this movement had to catch up. Can you call someone who had the opportunity to train specifically for a particular game "better" than someone who couldn't? I'm not sure how i'm being biased. I think you're being ignorant of the facts. Realize that in the beginning there were tons of foreign pro BW players (that's what Teamliquid was in the first place). They competed pretty much on a level playing field with the Koreans, but the Koreans kept getting better. Second, your argument is flawed. If someone gets a head start, they're forever unassailable as leaders? Market leaders stay the leaders forever? Please read your post before replying. It's really annoying to read the same thing over and over from you without any evidence or relevance. First, you totally evaded my point of "the rest of the world had to catch up". I meant that Koreans get to practice with other competitive players in teams and has a schedule dedicated to playing SCBW. I think the term is called a "pro". Please provide specific examples of your "tons of foreign pro BW players". Your second statement sounds like a blind follower. That supports my argument actually. Thus, SC2 pros having a "head start" in SC2 means that SCBW pros won't be able to catch up. actually, you're the one not doing the reading. Remember, my first claim is that you're ignorant of the facts. Yes, there were many foreign pros. Please take the time to peruse through this page: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/international/players . Or http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=90628. Or the countless blog entries by retired pros that I can't recall right now but have actually read. Do you know what you're doing right? You're arguing ignorantly then asking me for proof. Go look it up. There are histories recorded on this very site and TL was a big part of it from the start. The second point is clearly false. Just cuz the leader gets to practice and perpetuate their leadership doesn't necessarily equate to an unassailable leadership position.
Yawn. Okay let me answer properly.
1. You think that Koreans are better than international players. How absurd and ignorant is it to say that noone would ever beat anyone at anything?
2. You think that SCBW is better than SC2.
3. You absolve yourself by hiding behind SCBW's history, which is so amusing that a person's skill is measured by.
My response would be to ask you to deny these statements to whether you are biased about SCBW or not.
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On May 13 2011 12:03 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 12:02 1Eris1 wrote:On May 13 2011 11:59 Euronyme wrote:On May 13 2011 11:55 Belial88 wrote:I'm (still) really surprised and embarrassed to be an SC2 fan considering the flaming and hate the OP is getting. Only, that's not really the case, more-so in the foreign scene but even in the Korean scene, the BW players only obviously had a head start because of the similarities of the game early on, now if you look at it, you have former BW pros doing well, former BW pros doing poorly, non-BW players doing well, non-BW players doing poorly, and everything in between. The current top players in SC2 aren't all players from BW, and it's still the first year or so. No, every top player in BW is amongst the *very top* of SC2 right now. July, Nada, Boxer, Rainbow, as the OP describes if you actually read his post, were old news when SC2 came out and had horrible records as of recently. MVP, Nestea, MC, Fruitdealer, were the best BW players when SC2 was released that now play SC2. I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP. I think it's because the layout of it was very similar to the "BW is a better game than SC2" thread. Honestly though, MC makes alot more money than Flash does, so I don't really see why money alone would keep the top players to BW. If they really think they can smash everyone at SC2, they could probably make more money at it. Err flash makes at least 200k a year on salary alone. that doesn't include tournament winnings/other sponsherships etc. MC has only made around 150k this year. And I have a slight problem with the OP. It says former bonjwa iloveovv. FORMER BONJWA? I WAS NOT AWARE HE WAS REMOVED FROM THE BONJWA LIST. bastards. But no, actually I agree with the overall thread. I really want to see someone like Paralyze switch MC has made about 164k in 4 months.
I made $10 today when I found a $10 bill. $10 gained in just 5 seconds. If I extrapolate that earnings rate you can clearly see that I make $63 million a year.
No, MC does not make more than Flash, AND his earnings are highly unstable and unreliable.
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On May 13 2011 11:59 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 11:55 Belial88 wrote:I'm (still) really surprised and embarrassed to be an SC2 fan considering the flaming and hate the OP is getting. Only, that's not really the case, more-so in the foreign scene but even in the Korean scene, the BW players only obviously had a head start because of the similarities of the game early on, now if you look at it, you have former BW pros doing well, former BW pros doing poorly, non-BW players doing well, non-BW players doing poorly, and everything in between. The current top players in SC2 aren't all players from BW, and it's still the first year or so. No, every top player in BW is amongst the *very top* of SC2 right now. July, Nada, Boxer, Rainbow, as the OP describes if you actually read his post, were old news when SC2 came out and had horrible records as of recently. MVP, Nestea, MC, Fruitdealer, were the best BW players when SC2 was released that now play SC2. I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP. I think it's because the layout of it was very similar to the "BW is a better game than SC2" thread. Honestly though, MC makes alot more money than Flash does, so I don't really see why money alone would keep the top players to BW. If they really think they can smash everyone at SC2, they could probably make more money at it.
to be fair, i think part of it is competitive drive, at least for people like jaedong and flash. the desire to be the best. flash and jaedong came around the same time (a years difference) and were kinda fated to have a rivalry. in the past, flash used to lose to jaedong alot, nowadays its the opposite (although the last couple of encounters were won by jaedong.)
i dunno, i just feel that neither of them will switch without the other, because they both want to prove something
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to people quoting salaries and earnings. just because the top of the top is making enough to live off of doesnt mean your esport is going anywhere anytime soon. for every player making hundreds of thousands off of their game, there are thousands upon thousands who dont make a dime. thats such a stupid argument. at least college sports players get an education if they want one.
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On May 13 2011 12:05 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 12:03 Euronyme wrote:On May 13 2011 12:02 1Eris1 wrote:On May 13 2011 11:59 Euronyme wrote:On May 13 2011 11:55 Belial88 wrote:I'm (still) really surprised and embarrassed to be an SC2 fan considering the flaming and hate the OP is getting. Only, that's not really the case, more-so in the foreign scene but even in the Korean scene, the BW players only obviously had a head start because of the similarities of the game early on, now if you look at it, you have former BW pros doing well, former BW pros doing poorly, non-BW players doing well, non-BW players doing poorly, and everything in between. The current top players in SC2 aren't all players from BW, and it's still the first year or so. No, every top player in BW is amongst the *very top* of SC2 right now. July, Nada, Boxer, Rainbow, as the OP describes if you actually read his post, were old news when SC2 came out and had horrible records as of recently. MVP, Nestea, MC, Fruitdealer, were the best BW players when SC2 was released that now play SC2. I really don't understand why people are hating. It's like you haven't even read the OP. I think it's because the layout of it was very similar to the "BW is a better game than SC2" thread. Honestly though, MC makes alot more money than Flash does, so I don't really see why money alone would keep the top players to BW. If they really think they can smash everyone at SC2, they could probably make more money at it. Err flash makes at least 200k a year on salary alone. that doesn't include tournament winnings/other sponsherships etc. MC has only made around 150k this year. And I have a slight problem with the OP. It says former bonjwa iloveovv. FORMER BONJWA? I WAS NOT AWARE HE WAS REMOVED FROM THE BONJWA LIST. bastards. But no, actually I agree with the overall thread. I really want to see someone like Paralyze switch MC has made about 164k in 4 months. the amount of money he makes is not even stable.If he slumps now how won't make any money because all his money is from tournment winnings,oGs's sponsors does not pay its players any salaries.
Right, but then again he's not winning everything as it is, and the whole point of the OP was that if, say Flash, would switch, he would win everything, which would mean he'd earn more money than he currently does.
Winning all GSLs, the super GSL tournament, TSL, NASL, MLG etc would be alot more than his current salary+ prize winnings.
Edit: Could everyone take a deep breath and stop being so fucking condecendant, and act like you had some manners?
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In all honesty I read the entire article twice and I'm still left with this question, why did the author write it? There seems to be no good legitimate reason to write this than to piss people off, which I truly hope wasn't his intention. His thesis is poor at best, and his conclusion is..... I'll tell you when i find it. I understand maybe the Mods wanted to generate discussion, but this was probably a very poor way of going at it. Instead of proving whatever point it was trying to prove, it only served to widen the divide between SC2 and BW, and not only that but harm the image of TL (see Reddit and even Artosis's twitter). I for one am slightly disappointed by TL and the article.
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EPT
