San Fan Club - Page 3
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
The myth about San in GSL March: Myth 1 - San only won against Nestea because of amulet and archon toilet in GSL March. Myth 2 - San only got as far as he did due to amulet. Myth 1 is not true (see below for basic play by play of his Nestea match). Myth 2 is debatable but my thoughts on it are below (in the "Finally" section). San vs Nestea. (Edit - Also San does not use KA in his game against Boxer [in same group] and he barely uses against Ensnare [most of the time it was idle templars. Also he used DTs, Zealots, and Stalkers to defend against drops. He only used warp in templar two times to storm immediately but the rest of the time he used idle templars]). Here's a basically summary of the entire events of the game: + Show Spoiler + A major thing to note is that he did a timing attack with a lot of stalkers and sentries at around 10 minutes and prevented his third hatch from going. This probably determined the outcome of the game greatly. I rewatch that game and San used Blink stalkers to defend mutalisks. He didn't even get amulet until 20-21 minute mark (game timer). Even once he got amulet, he used Blink stalkers to defend the harass at 23 minute mark. It wasn't until 25 minutes until amulet may have been taken advantaged of (though take note there were 4 templars out ever since the 20 minute mark which meant they probably had max energy already). Finally the muta harass at the 28 minute mark was repelled by Stalkers again. He started DT harass at 21 minutes and continued the rest of the game (this helped a lot). He used a lot of Archons (didn't rely much on warp in storms. Again he only used storm at 25 minutes but take note those were from old templars which were warped in 5 minutes prior). He only "really" abused and taken advantage of Amulet at 30-31 minute mark (when the Mothership first appears) so far. Take note the Archon toilet was used to kill 6 Brood Lords but San had a lot of stalkers coming in so he probably could have easily taken out those BL even without archon toilet. At 36 minutes, he uses warp in templars to..... feedback overseers >.>. Even without Amulet, templars have enough energy to warp in feedback. At 37 minute mark (one minute later), he uses warp in amulet templar to storm a mineral line of about 7 drones (gets a couple). 39 minute repeats another amulet storm (gets around 4 drones). So here he abuses amulet again but not for much gain. 40-41 minute - He feedbacks overseers and lands just "four" storms (one storm missed, two were against ultralisks). Vortex but no archon toilet (banelings were in it). However there was another vortex against the 9 or so corruptors which was archon toileted. However he still had a ton of archons and stalkers leftover so he probably would have dealt with that easily regardless. 42 minute 20 second mark - Nestea 90 supply while San at 140. Basically GG. 44 minutes and around 20 seconds - Nestea GGs. So basically San never really abused amulet in his game against Nestea. My long post defending San, etc: + Show Spoiler + Honestly he probably been able to win that game even with the current patch (if players were playing the same of course. Again I do know Nestea underestimated him). He used archons a lot which would have been better now with the +1 range. Of course Infestor would have been buffed with the new Fungal (but slowed, after Infestor patch move speed was reduced by 0.25). The only major factor is that I agree that Nestea probably underestimated him however San played a great game his micro, macro, harass, basically everything, was well done throughout the entire game. Point is he defeat Nestea fairly (even though Nestea underestimated him). No he didn't win "solely" because of Amulet or the Archon toilet. He didn't even abuse amulet or the archon toilet that much (again rewatch the game). Maybe you can say if Nestea knew there was no amulet, he would have been more aggressive (though Nestea was already aggressive and denied by Blink stalkers several times) or San would have played differently. That's too much variables to debate on (would be unnecessary too since this is just a post explaining that San did well and did not abuse amulet in his Nestea game.) Of course again I agree Nestea played too passive early on and underestimated San but the point is San did not really abuse any gameplay imbalances in that game to win. Game needs to be watched and one needs to take note of the time he uses warp in storms or so (I listed all occurrences which I've seen). Anyway I'm just tired of players lately stating that San only won because of amulet which is why I'm made this post. San is not a bad player that relied on amulet (he still did good in WC and did decently against MVP, near winning the 4th set[you can rewatch since WC is free]). As for the question of "would a good player be in Code B"? Well currently, Code B players can easily defeat Code S players (see team league). San doing bad in a few matches in a row does not mean he's a bad player (lots of players hit slumps or have periods where they play several bad games in a row). He's shown he's capable of being a decent to good player. Finally I do agree Nestea is currently a better player overall but the discussion was whether San is a bad player and I'd say he's not a bad player and he did not get as far as he did solely because of amulet. Another "finally" >.> - While San did not use amulet much in the Nestea game (again a basic summary and play by play of the game is listed above) I do know he used them extensively in other games like vs sCfOu. Though an important thing to note is if there was no amulet, San would have played the game differently and we do not know how well San would have played then (against sC). We know he's decent without it (see San vs IMMVP. In the one macro game, he did well. Though he lost 2 games due to failed attempts at all ins/cheese >.<).. So that's another thing I'd like to point out. An analogy is what if Protoss did not exist in Broodwar? You can't say Bisu would be a nub player if Protoss did not exist in Broodwar because he would just simply be playing another race (his Terran isn't that bad but he did lose to Flash's Protoss but if Bisu practiced Terran Bisu probably would do very well). The point of the analogy is if amulet did not exist, San would have simply picked another strategy (just like if Protoss did not exist in BW, Bisu would simply be playing and practicing another race in BW). As seen in games after GSL March, San is still a good player even without amulet. He may be currently in a slump but I'm sure he'll be back to playing well in no time if he continues to practice. | ||
Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
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MikeTheBike
New Zealand136 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
He is may be in a "slump", but when you killed Nestea, Boxer and Ensnare, well, I would like to be in such "slump". San was killed by Sheth out of Code A, but this speaks for Sheth, not against San. San is one of the few Protoss I like to watch. | ||
Arnfasta
United States183 Posts
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DeepBlu2
United States975 Posts
On September 02 2011 21:46 Arnfasta wrote: Anyone know why San isn't listed with NSH for the Code A qualis? Huge fan of San but sad to hear he's without a team ( It's not true and an error by Gom. As of now, San is still with Hoseo as his team and zenith as his clan. That's not to say he isn't seeking a team, but he is still on Hoseo at the moment. | ||
Azuroz
Sweden1630 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Also judging by the way he played, it seems like he has been practicing quite a bit lately, he was playing like a boss! | ||
Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Again, he's wearing the NSHS jacket, he must be back with them (did he ever actually leave the team?) | ||
MetalLobster
Canada532 Posts
On October 29 2011 13:55 Ben... wrote: ManZenith is currently owning it up at WCG. He just made SC look like a scrub. Again, he's wearing the NSHS jacket, he must be back with them (did he ever actually leave the team?) He went to a code A qualifiers registered as "other" instead of NSHS so he did leave at one point. But yeah, San is playing very well! I hope he makes it back to the GSL one day | ||
DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
His match against Nestea is still my favourite up to date, would love to see him make a comeback! | ||
Fall.182
United States126 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97274 Posts
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Suichoy
Canada397 Posts
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Jawa~
United States291 Posts
His facebook is here, he put it in chat today to add him: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002859785993 | ||
Fionn
United States23455 Posts
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LaaLaaLeevi
200 Posts
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Azuroz
Sweden1630 Posts
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