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I don't understand how it's annoying at all, though. Do you understand what life and death situations entail? I'm more annoyed by characters that are blind to the gravity of the situation and survive through sheer plot armor.
Example: In Gunbuster, Noriko had to muster an incredible amount of courage to man the Buster Machine, knowing about the death and carnage that awaited her and even after losing a comrade she was supposed to cover. The important part is that she understood the gravity of the situation and dealt with it as such before acting.
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On February 11 2011 14:16 PikaXchU wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 13:31 Ecael wrote:On February 11 2011 13:23 PikaXchU wrote:+ Show Spoiler [madoka] +
Homura probably knew about it, given how she almost instantly chased after the gem.
+ Show Spoiler [madoka] +No, then she would've stopped Madoka. She knows of the importance of the gem, but probably not of the event itself. + Show Spoiler [madoka] +I think she wasn't in time to actually stop madoka. Given by how she reacted, I would say that she knew.
Umm it isn't like Madoka wasn't right there. If Homura knew, judging from how her movements have been so far, there is absolutely no way Homura couldn't stop Madoka.
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On February 11 2011 14:35 LunarC wrote:
I don't understand how it's annoying at all, though. Do you understand what life and death situations entail? I'm more annoyed by characters that are blind to the gravity of the situation and survive through sheer plot armor.
Example: In Gunbuster, Noriko had to muster an incredible amount of courage to man the Buster Machine, knowing about the death and carnage that awaited her and even after losing a comrade she was supposed to cover. The important part is that she understood the gravity of the situation and dealt with it as such before acting.
It is annoying for me because when shes talking to Sayaka and trying to persuade her not to fight with Homura and to talk it over with the other girl. Like i know shes concerned and everything and i dont really know what else she could've done, but saying that everyone should be friends to Sayaka sorta knowing how she acts (stubbornly?), and the other girl who probably seemed ruthless to Madoka. Which would mean that becoming friends isn't likely at all. Thats what i'm annoyed (well its more like a mosquito sucking blood situation where it doesn't really matter much and its just opinions) with Madoka, not her reaction to her friend dying because of her actions.
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+ Show Spoiler [Madoka, more speculation] +The problem with Madoka is that she's dealing with most of the issues more maturely than her character really should be... And her immature moments almost feel more out of place than her mature moments, thanks to how common the latter are. I know that anime tends to do that a lot (and that the japanese tend to view the characters as being older than we do), but I still don't think that makes up for how bipolar her character feels emotionally.
I would say that Homura probably knew that the soul gems were extremely important, but that she did not know the details of what happens if they are separated from the body. I think she probably had a hunch, but no real evidence to support the hunch till then. With the way things are going at the moment I can't possibly see how Homura could end up not being an ally of Madoka, even if she doesn't like the idea...
Overall, as I think about it, I can see some definite patterns emerging, but with they way the rest of the show has been presented, they could actually go from being a very good show, to being an amazing show, by actually breaking those patterns.
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Canada8033 Posts
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On February 11 2011 14:37 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 14:16 PikaXchU wrote:On February 11 2011 13:31 Ecael wrote:On February 11 2011 13:23 PikaXchU wrote:+ Show Spoiler [madoka] +
Homura probably knew about it, given how she almost instantly chased after the gem.
+ Show Spoiler [madoka] +No, then she would've stopped Madoka. She knows of the importance of the gem, but probably not of the event itself. + Show Spoiler [madoka] +I think she wasn't in time to actually stop madoka. Given by how she reacted, I would say that she knew. Umm it isn't like Madoka wasn't right there. If Homura knew, judging from how her movements have been so far, there is absolutely no way Homura couldn't stop Madoka.
+ Show Spoiler [Madoka 6, regarding Homura] +I think that Homura knew exactly what would happen. Homura didn't stop Madoka on purpose, so that Madoka could see for herself what happens if she acts rashly in a situation that she doesn't understand. Maybe even to show her again that she will only hurt the people that are important to her (again) when she gets involved with the magical girls again.
Homura started run after the Soul Gem before Sayaka collapsed and returned it directly to her hand, without hearing any of Kyuubey's explanation. There is no way that she would have done exactly that without knowing what would happen.
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On February 11 2011 09:59 Spazer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 08:49 Latham wrote:Well guys, I just finished Tsukihime. I really gotta say it's on another whole new level compared to the VNs I played before it. It had a good length and although there were a lot of choices, they were very obvious if you wanted to continue down a specific route. At first I was taken aback a little by the bad graphics, namely in the heroine design department, but as I progressed I really warmed up to them. They seemed so simple and bland, but I quickly grew to accepting them. Although there were no voices, I quite enjoyed reading everything. The story was quite easy to grasp and follow, although the first 2 routes (Arcueid and Ciel) don’t answer all the questions one might have from the things he sees and reads, after all the routes, many of the previous blanks are filled. The only thing I regret is not having a Yumizuka Satsuki route. I somehow liked the girl. I just hope the rumored remake of Tsukihime will really have a route dedicated to her =) The music fits very nicely, is very tranquil and I find it to be simply beautiful. This is probably my favourite VN to date. Now onto the routes themselves~!! I hope this won’t come as much of a shock to you, but there will be spoilers here. Some routes posess more detailed spoilers and others are general and vague. I apologize ahead for the length. + Show Spoiler [Arcueid] + Well to be honest, at first I really didn’t like her. I wanted my first playthrough to be a honest, normal school boy playthrough. No mahou shojo, no vampires, no evil beasts, nothing, just an everyday life of a student. I wanted to ignore and get as few events as I possibly could with her, but doing that I either ended up dead or feeling bad about my choices. I don’t quite remember the moment I started to open up to her, but her airheadedness and the very open, friendly personality along with those cute poses and facial expressions won me over. I enjoyed her route, and most of all, the trouble she caused for Shiki. Her true ending was exactly what you’d expect and her good ending was sweet and warm, like cotton candy! Well I never did like the girl, even if I have to admit that see is the main heroine in this game judging solely from her involvement in every route no matter how small. With an outer shell of kindness and friendliness which turn out to be nothing but lies and deceit, but with a fragile mind and soul she didn’t really appeal to me. Her route I feel was overly complex (with Roa’s transmission into Shiki). Being the second main heroine, I can see the need for her to be fundamentally different from Arcueid, but I guess she’s just not as appealing to me as Arcueid. Nevertheless I’m sure she has her fans as well =). Her true ending felt really “meh” to me. There was talk about becoming a vegetable if you wake up, but in the end it never happened (or I misinterpreted the ending). The good ending was probably my favourite in the whole game. It ended in a very good, happy almost harem-like way. I was really happy to see that even after you told Arcueid that you loved Ciel, she didn’t give up on you. I made a rant about this very kind of situation, back when I wrote about “My Girlfriend is the President”. After choosing 1 route the other girls became just supports for the story. Here Arcueid hasn’t given up yet. I really really like that. Ciel’s good ending also ended on a high note, a very funny comedy/harem like situation, which really reinforced my liking of it. There’s also the Kohaku-san incident that was not exactly cleared out + Show Spoiler +Choking her almost to death and jizzing on her . I wish they’d had also tied that up.
Well after having some experience with the game, having finished both main routes before this, I realized I wasn’t quite prepared for what was coming. First of all, these next 3 routes seem to revolve around a completely different set of parameters and flags (thank you TWGOK for the helpful vocabulary!!!). Also, here is most probably the very first time you get to know Yumizuka better. Playing the main routes, it seemed like Satcchin was nothing more than a very simple background character with even less depth and dialogue than Inui Arihiko. Here you find out she had a crush on you and if that piqueted your interest, on the web you can find out that she was one of the heroines that was supposed to have her own route but was scrapped due to time restraints (DAMN YOU TIME, HOW MANY GAMES HAVE YOU RUINED ALREADY?!). I can’t really put into words how I feel about this route. I guess the best way to put it would be, that I felt that this could have been an optional part of 1 of the main routes until the very end of it. Understandably these 3 routes (Hisui, Akiha, Kohaku) are not of the same importance as the 2 main ones, but they still feel unbelievably rich in their own way. I wish I could have been developing my bond with Akiha or the 2 maids, at the same time as chasing vamps with Arcueid. Getting the best of both worlds without the sad Akiha endings. Well I think I ranted enough, onto the endings. Both endings are very dramatic compared to the previous ones, which made me sad. I was hoping for a happy/good ending with Akiha (who is such a cute tsundere btw.) Not necessarily wincest, man/woman love, but a warm, happy ending nevertheless.
The True Ending is what you’d expect Shiki to do, it feels right. Sacrificing yourself for your sister’s sake.
The normal ending is well, sad. Akiha becomes a doll that feeds on your blood only. You remain hopeful that someday she’ll turn back to normal.
There really isn’t a lot to say after that big rant I made on Akiha’s route. Hisuhi’s route has the same set of parameters like Akiha’s but obviously you want to encounter her as much as possible instead of your sister. At first glance she seems cold and professional, but in truth she cares about you a lot. If you put in the effort of getting her flags up, you’ll quickly get a positive response from her. Much like Arcueid, I didn’t think much of her at first, but after getting to know her story, I felt very sad for her and her sister. The plot twist which was her and her sister switching places right after Shiki’s accident wasn’t really much of a shock, but the endings and recollections of the past are both pretty dramatic. During childhood and after it, Hisui was a perfect contradiction to her older sister in character.
The true ending isn’t really fulfilling. Many people died, too much was sacrificed in my opinion. Still, the evil-doers were punished, the good people survived, and the Tohno family received another painful blow for their cursed blood.
The good ending is at the very best bittersweet. Although nobody important died, Kohaku’s fate seemed cruel, but I guess you gotta pay for your sins somehow.
Well Kohaku’s route is vastly different from Hisui’s which was again, quite a shock for me. It seems each route, even if based partially on the same parameters, is tailored uniquely to the heroine. I was quite shocked that Akiha could become such a ruthless murderer on her own. She absorbed Roa, lol.
At the end of Akiha’s route it was still hinted that SHIKI (even though he didn’t have the same model/avatar as in the 2 main routes) was still born with(obviously, since he attack you @ 8 y/o) and influenced by Roa. He said it himself saying “There’s someone in my head that keep telling me to destroy all the time”. What is great about this VN, is that each heroine was a unique story to tell based upon parameters that are quite often overlapping between different routes, but the story manages to remain coherent. There aren’t any glaring plot holes between Akiha’s story and Kohaku’s story even when the heroines switch places being the victim and the executioner.
Although you don’t meet Chaos, Arcueid or the real side of Ciel, their stories about Roa, other vampires, and other information given by them, still remains true. There is no retconing what happened there. I am very impressed.
Also, the sex scenes are very lenghly detailed, although I am not really fond of them as I only really finished reading Arcueid’s fully, and skipped reading the others for the most part.
Kohaku’s ending is actually hilarious. That’s right, I said it. Hilarious. So much malice, so much hatred, so much bad blood but everything turns out well. Everyone important to Shiki survived the meatgrinder. It’s fucking mind boggling =D Solely for this reason I believe this ending to be the 2nd best ending in the game.
+ Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Disclaimer: I am quite fond of Akiha and her route, and it's probably going to show at some point. Arc's route is distressing normal (well, normal for the Nasuverse, anyways). There's a few neat ideas presented in the route, but overall, it's fairly mediocre and nothing particularly eye-opening happens. And that's fine, since you're forced to do this route before any of the others, so it's an intro of sorts to the setting. There's a reason why Ciel consistently scores so low in the character rankings.  I didn't like this route much. In my opinion, there's only one good thing about this route. You basically spend the entirety of Arc's route agonizing over whether or not you're Roa. When the exact same thing happens in Ciel's route, you're like "haven't we already done this?" And then you actually do become Roa in the end. I thought it was a nice twist. You know, I think Ciel is the only character I haven't bothered collecting all the CGs for. lol Sacchin. The game is divided into two sections: Arc and Ciel make up the "near side" routes, while Akiha, Hisui, and Kohaku make up the "far side". Roa's personality is dominant in the near side routes, while SHIKI's personality is dominant in the far side. I don't know how you can say that the far side is of lesser importance. Yes, there is less talk about Roa, but the story isn't necessarily about Roa. In any case, I found that the secrets of the Tohno family made for a far more interesting plot than Roa seeking immortality. You want to reduce Akiha's route to a sideplot? I am not okay with that. In my (incredibly biased) opinion, this route has the best romance. Here, we learn that Akiha has prolonged Shiki's life at her own expense (and then he goes and NTRs her in all the other routes -_-), and has basically waited years for him to return. Both of her endings are incredibly tragic. And though it breaks my heart to say this, a good end wouldn't have worked for this route. For instance, Romeo and Juliet wouldn't have had the same emotional impact if they had both lived happily ever after. In much the same way, Akiha's route would have sucked as a romance if she had ended up living with Shiki. Crimson red vermillion is the coolest skill in Tsukihime. Hisui. The mindfuck route. Sentenal is right in that you spend half the route in bed, but overall, I didn't really mind. That's mostly because I quite enjoy the whole "am I a murderer" thing that's Shiki's got going on in most of the routes. Anyway, once you read this route, it's hard to look at Kohaku the same way again. And then when she serves you meals in the other routes... it's pure nightmare fuel. I'd consider this route to be the best in Tsukihime if I didn't like Akiha so much. Kohaku's route felt kinda tacked on to me. We don't really learn anything new here, as it was all covered in Hisui's route. And that ending was incredibly jarring. Whereas all the other routes' true endings are tragic to some degree, Kohaku's is just plain happy. I didn't like it (especially considering that Akiha only got a true and normal end <_<). Incidentally, did you get the bad end where Shiki goes all badass and takes Akiha's head off? It's worth reading just for the awesome factor. And don't even mention the h-scenes. -_- Mollusks. No comment on the epilogue? It gave a little closure, but I guess there's not that much to talk about there. You gonna read Kagetsu Tohya now?
Mmmm I still got FMP novels to go through since I got so into Tsukihime that I didn't get a chance to ream them yet, but probably yeah, I'll look for and queue Kagetsu Tohya after FMP.
+ Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Arc's route did feel a little bland and generic now that I compare them after finishing every heroine, but I still liked her character. I seriously LOLed when Arc was waiting for Shiki in the meeting room with Akiha. I could just imagine how that looked xD. Or how she says "I didn't like your maid so I sent her away but stayed in your room the whole night instead teehee ^_^" Ciel - no comment. And don't you lol @ my Sacchin ;D I was already aware about the 2 sides of the moon. I was really shocked that the dominating personality switched. On the near side, Roa took over for his quest of immortality, while on the far side, Kohaku manipulated him into most of it (well maybe aside from Akiha's route which was still Roa's doing). I really liked Akiha's route in that sense that I could bond with her more as a sis/bro. Her story was touching and great, but I guess the endings and wincest weren't to my taste (even though Shiki isn't her biological brother). The sad endings certainly fit her sides of the story, but I can't help to want a happy ending since I liked this route so much. It's not like I want to reduce her to a subplot, but I also felt it would have been nice to squeeze in a little more of something in here. There was a huge focus on Shiki/Akiha (obviously, that's their route) but some interference would have been nice to go along with it. Hisui's route was annoying. Certainly there was the mindfuck and the truth about Kohaku, but being bedridden and insane wasn't really fun for me . I liked her as a heroine though. Shy, cute and has a crush on you that she hides. Too bad she like Akiha gets 2 endings that are tragic/dramatic. Kohaku's route is Hisui's but you realized who you have to give the ribbon back to. Also who give you a blowjob and a fuck to get out of bed. I still think it's hilarious noone died here. And no, I didn't get the bad ending. For me Akiha returned back to normal and was stronger, she also seemed to be finally cured of her wincest fantasies and switched her affection to someone new, Hisui became more like her maid, and Kohaku went off to work at another mansion that you went to visit in the epilogue. My brain still freezes when I try to comprehend how that all worked out for everybody. It's like I think about it but all I ever see in my head is "Does Not Compute" :|
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I never get to join in on the first wave of Madoka discussion --
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On February 11 2011 19:49 tonight wrote:
I never get to join in on the first wave of Madoka discussion --
Mmmm, for me it gets subbed at roughly 2-3 am CET so it sucks ass. ;/
+ Show Spoiler [IS] +
Mmm show is starting to piss me off. Should have been School Days mecha. Ichika is such a useless shit it gets my blood boiling. I also lol'ed they added FR to the ending already. Since I'm already knee deep in this shit I'll continue but I was hoping for a better harem anime.
+ Show Spoiler [Madoka] +
I get a feeling this is the type of show that the moralfag main heroine will become a MS only in the very last episode for the final battle ;/. Kyouko I actually like. Her personality, her weapons, her clothes are quite a nice fresh breath in this story. Horuma as always the best -.-.
It didn't surprise me that Kyubei rips out the souls after that episode where it binded with that other fuckwad. I think if MSes don't clean their soul gem's they turn into witches themselves >_>. Also wtf is up with Homura being from teh future?
+ Show Spoiler [YM] +
Well, not much to say here since I already read all that in the manga. Nice animation though.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JFths.jpg)
great picture
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Canada8033 Posts
On February 11 2011 18:41 Latham wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 09:59 Spazer wrote:On February 11 2011 08:49 Latham wrote:Well guys, I just finished Tsukihime. I really gotta say it's on another whole new level compared to the VNs I played before it. It had a good length and although there were a lot of choices, they were very obvious if you wanted to continue down a specific route. At first I was taken aback a little by the bad graphics, namely in the heroine design department, but as I progressed I really warmed up to them. They seemed so simple and bland, but I quickly grew to accepting them. Although there were no voices, I quite enjoyed reading everything. The story was quite easy to grasp and follow, although the first 2 routes (Arcueid and Ciel) don’t answer all the questions one might have from the things he sees and reads, after all the routes, many of the previous blanks are filled. The only thing I regret is not having a Yumizuka Satsuki route. I somehow liked the girl. I just hope the rumored remake of Tsukihime will really have a route dedicated to her =) The music fits very nicely, is very tranquil and I find it to be simply beautiful. This is probably my favourite VN to date. Now onto the routes themselves~!! I hope this won’t come as much of a shock to you, but there will be spoilers here. Some routes posess more detailed spoilers and others are general and vague. I apologize ahead for the length. + Show Spoiler [Arcueid] + Well to be honest, at first I really didn’t like her. I wanted my first playthrough to be a honest, normal school boy playthrough. No mahou shojo, no vampires, no evil beasts, nothing, just an everyday life of a student. I wanted to ignore and get as few events as I possibly could with her, but doing that I either ended up dead or feeling bad about my choices. I don’t quite remember the moment I started to open up to her, but her airheadedness and the very open, friendly personality along with those cute poses and facial expressions won me over. I enjoyed her route, and most of all, the trouble she caused for Shiki. Her true ending was exactly what you’d expect and her good ending was sweet and warm, like cotton candy! Well I never did like the girl, even if I have to admit that see is the main heroine in this game judging solely from her involvement in every route no matter how small. With an outer shell of kindness and friendliness which turn out to be nothing but lies and deceit, but with a fragile mind and soul she didn’t really appeal to me. Her route I feel was overly complex (with Roa’s transmission into Shiki). Being the second main heroine, I can see the need for her to be fundamentally different from Arcueid, but I guess she’s just not as appealing to me as Arcueid. Nevertheless I’m sure she has her fans as well =). Her true ending felt really “meh” to me. There was talk about becoming a vegetable if you wake up, but in the end it never happened (or I misinterpreted the ending). The good ending was probably my favourite in the whole game. It ended in a very good, happy almost harem-like way. I was really happy to see that even after you told Arcueid that you loved Ciel, she didn’t give up on you. I made a rant about this very kind of situation, back when I wrote about “My Girlfriend is the President”. After choosing 1 route the other girls became just supports for the story. Here Arcueid hasn’t given up yet. I really really like that. Ciel’s good ending also ended on a high note, a very funny comedy/harem like situation, which really reinforced my liking of it. There’s also the Kohaku-san incident that was not exactly cleared out + Show Spoiler +Choking her almost to death and jizzing on her . I wish they’d had also tied that up.
Well after having some experience with the game, having finished both main routes before this, I realized I wasn’t quite prepared for what was coming. First of all, these next 3 routes seem to revolve around a completely different set of parameters and flags (thank you TWGOK for the helpful vocabulary!!!). Also, here is most probably the very first time you get to know Yumizuka better. Playing the main routes, it seemed like Satcchin was nothing more than a very simple background character with even less depth and dialogue than Inui Arihiko. Here you find out she had a crush on you and if that piqueted your interest, on the web you can find out that she was one of the heroines that was supposed to have her own route but was scrapped due to time restraints (DAMN YOU TIME, HOW MANY GAMES HAVE YOU RUINED ALREADY?!). I can’t really put into words how I feel about this route. I guess the best way to put it would be, that I felt that this could have been an optional part of 1 of the main routes until the very end of it. Understandably these 3 routes (Hisui, Akiha, Kohaku) are not of the same importance as the 2 main ones, but they still feel unbelievably rich in their own way. I wish I could have been developing my bond with Akiha or the 2 maids, at the same time as chasing vamps with Arcueid. Getting the best of both worlds without the sad Akiha endings. Well I think I ranted enough, onto the endings. Both endings are very dramatic compared to the previous ones, which made me sad. I was hoping for a happy/good ending with Akiha (who is such a cute tsundere btw.) Not necessarily wincest, man/woman love, but a warm, happy ending nevertheless.
The True Ending is what you’d expect Shiki to do, it feels right. Sacrificing yourself for your sister’s sake.
The normal ending is well, sad. Akiha becomes a doll that feeds on your blood only. You remain hopeful that someday she’ll turn back to normal.
There really isn’t a lot to say after that big rant I made on Akiha’s route. Hisuhi’s route has the same set of parameters like Akiha’s but obviously you want to encounter her as much as possible instead of your sister. At first glance she seems cold and professional, but in truth she cares about you a lot. If you put in the effort of getting her flags up, you’ll quickly get a positive response from her. Much like Arcueid, I didn’t think much of her at first, but after getting to know her story, I felt very sad for her and her sister. The plot twist which was her and her sister switching places right after Shiki’s accident wasn’t really much of a shock, but the endings and recollections of the past are both pretty dramatic. During childhood and after it, Hisui was a perfect contradiction to her older sister in character.
The true ending isn’t really fulfilling. Many people died, too much was sacrificed in my opinion. Still, the evil-doers were punished, the good people survived, and the Tohno family received another painful blow for their cursed blood.
The good ending is at the very best bittersweet. Although nobody important died, Kohaku’s fate seemed cruel, but I guess you gotta pay for your sins somehow.
Well Kohaku’s route is vastly different from Hisui’s which was again, quite a shock for me. It seems each route, even if based partially on the same parameters, is tailored uniquely to the heroine. I was quite shocked that Akiha could become such a ruthless murderer on her own. She absorbed Roa, lol.
At the end of Akiha’s route it was still hinted that SHIKI (even though he didn’t have the same model/avatar as in the 2 main routes) was still born with(obviously, since he attack you @ 8 y/o) and influenced by Roa. He said it himself saying “There’s someone in my head that keep telling me to destroy all the time”. What is great about this VN, is that each heroine was a unique story to tell based upon parameters that are quite often overlapping between different routes, but the story manages to remain coherent. There aren’t any glaring plot holes between Akiha’s story and Kohaku’s story even when the heroines switch places being the victim and the executioner.
Although you don’t meet Chaos, Arcueid or the real side of Ciel, their stories about Roa, other vampires, and other information given by them, still remains true. There is no retconing what happened there. I am very impressed.
Also, the sex scenes are very lenghly detailed, although I am not really fond of them as I only really finished reading Arcueid’s fully, and skipped reading the others for the most part.
Kohaku’s ending is actually hilarious. That’s right, I said it. Hilarious. So much malice, so much hatred, so much bad blood but everything turns out well. Everyone important to Shiki survived the meatgrinder. It’s fucking mind boggling =D Solely for this reason I believe this ending to be the 2nd best ending in the game.
+ Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Disclaimer: I am quite fond of Akiha and her route, and it's probably going to show at some point. Arc's route is distressing normal (well, normal for the Nasuverse, anyways). There's a few neat ideas presented in the route, but overall, it's fairly mediocre and nothing particularly eye-opening happens. And that's fine, since you're forced to do this route before any of the others, so it's an intro of sorts to the setting. There's a reason why Ciel consistently scores so low in the character rankings. I didn't like this route much. In my opinion, there's only one good thing about this route. You basically spend the entirety of Arc's route agonizing over whether or not you're Roa. When the exact same thing happens in Ciel's route, you're like "haven't we already done this?" And then you actually do become Roa in the end. I thought it was a nice twist. You know, I think Ciel is the only character I haven't bothered collecting all the CGs for. lol Sacchin. The game is divided into two sections: Arc and Ciel make up the "near side" routes, while Akiha, Hisui, and Kohaku make up the "far side". Roa's personality is dominant in the near side routes, while SHIKI's personality is dominant in the far side. I don't know how you can say that the far side is of lesser importance. Yes, there is less talk about Roa, but the story isn't necessarily about Roa. In any case, I found that the secrets of the Tohno family made for a far more interesting plot than Roa seeking immortality. You want to reduce Akiha's route to a sideplot? I am not okay with that. In my (incredibly biased) opinion, this route has the best romance. Here, we learn that Akiha has prolonged Shiki's life at her own expense (and then he goes and NTRs her in all the other routes -_-), and has basically waited years for him to return. Both of her endings are incredibly tragic. And though it breaks my heart to say this, a good end wouldn't have worked for this route. For instance, Romeo and Juliet wouldn't have had the same emotional impact if they had both lived happily ever after. In much the same way, Akiha's route would have sucked as a romance if she had ended up living with Shiki. Crimson red vermillion is the coolest skill in Tsukihime. Hisui. The mindfuck route. Sentenal is right in that you spend half the route in bed, but overall, I didn't really mind. That's mostly because I quite enjoy the whole "am I a murderer" thing that's Shiki's got going on in most of the routes. Anyway, once you read this route, it's hard to look at Kohaku the same way again. And then when she serves you meals in the other routes... it's pure nightmare fuel. I'd consider this route to be the best in Tsukihime if I didn't like Akiha so much. Kohaku's route felt kinda tacked on to me. We don't really learn anything new here, as it was all covered in Hisui's route. And that ending was incredibly jarring. Whereas all the other routes' true endings are tragic to some degree, Kohaku's is just plain happy. I didn't like it (especially considering that Akiha only got a true and normal end <_<). Incidentally, did you get the bad end where Shiki goes all badass and takes Akiha's head off? It's worth reading just for the awesome factor. And don't even mention the h-scenes. -_- Mollusks. No comment on the epilogue? It gave a little closure, but I guess there's not that much to talk about there. You gonna read Kagetsu Tohya now? Mmmm I still got FMP novels to go through since I got so into Tsukihime that I didn't get a chance to ream them yet, but probably yeah, I'll look for and queue Kagetsu Tohya after FMP. + Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Arc's route did feel a little bland and generic now that I compare them after finishing every heroine, but I still liked her character. I seriously LOLed when Arc was waiting for Shiki in the meeting room with Akiha. I could just imagine how that looked xD. Or how she says "I didn't like your maid so I sent her away but stayed in your room the whole night instead teehee ^_^" Ciel - no comment. And don't you lol @ my Sacchin ;D I was already aware about the 2 sides of the moon. I was really shocked that the dominating personality switched. On the near side, Roa took over for his quest of immortality, while on the far side, Kohaku manipulated him into most of it (well maybe aside from Akiha's route which was still Roa's doing). I really liked Akiha's route in that sense that I could bond with her more as a sis/bro. Her story was touching and great, but I guess the endings and wincest weren't to my taste (even though Shiki isn't her biological brother). The sad endings certainly fit her sides of the story, but I can't help to want a happy ending since I liked this route so much. It's not like I want to reduce her to a subplot, but I also felt it would have been nice to squeeze in a little more of something in here. There was a huge focus on Shiki/Akiha (obviously, that's their route) but some interference would have been nice to go along with it. Hisui's route was annoying. Certainly there was the mindfuck and the truth about Kohaku, but being bedridden and insane wasn't really fun for me . I liked her as a heroine though. Shy, cute and has a crush on you that she hides. Too bad she like Akiha gets 2 endings that are tragic/dramatic. Kohaku's route is Hisui's but you realized who you have to give the ribbon back to. Also who give you a blowjob and a fuck to get out of bed. I still think it's hilarious noone died here. And no, I didn't get the bad ending. For me Akiha returned back to normal and was stronger, she also seemed to be finally cured of her wincest fantasies and switched her affection to someone new, Hisui became more like her maid, and Kohaku went off to work at another mansion that you went to visit in the epilogue. My brain still freezes when I try to comprehend how that all worked out for everybody. It's like I think about it but all I ever see in my head is "Does Not Compute" :|
+ Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +It's not Roa that manifests in Akiha's route. Roa wouldn't care about Akiha since the object of his desire is solely Arc. SHIKI, on the other hand, is utterly obsessed with Akiha. There's a side story in Kagetsu Tohya which is essentially Akiha's good end. Now, let's do some bad ends: You know how Ciel always tries to get people to kill her as a sort of personality test? Well, she never thought that somebody would actually be able to kill her. This end is awesome because Ciel dies. Stupid Ciel. Why would you do that.  This one I can forgive because Nanaya Shiki is the epitome of awesomeness.
Now that I think about it, you should probably do Plus Disc before you do Kagetsu Tohya. Otherwise, the Seo appearances won't make any sense.
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Did anybody else get the Garden of Sinners Blu-ray box? Mine arrived yesterday. Its very, very nicely put together. I really need to take the time to marathon this.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/2bYrH.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/RvWAc.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/MKkqO.jpg)
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On February 11 2011 21:05 Spazer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 18:41 Latham wrote:On February 11 2011 09:59 Spazer wrote:On February 11 2011 08:49 Latham wrote:Well guys, I just finished Tsukihime. I really gotta say it's on another whole new level compared to the VNs I played before it. It had a good length and although there were a lot of choices, they were very obvious if you wanted to continue down a specific route. At first I was taken aback a little by the bad graphics, namely in the heroine design department, but as I progressed I really warmed up to them. They seemed so simple and bland, but I quickly grew to accepting them. Although there were no voices, I quite enjoyed reading everything. The story was quite easy to grasp and follow, although the first 2 routes (Arcueid and Ciel) don’t answer all the questions one might have from the things he sees and reads, after all the routes, many of the previous blanks are filled. The only thing I regret is not having a Yumizuka Satsuki route. I somehow liked the girl. I just hope the rumored remake of Tsukihime will really have a route dedicated to her =) The music fits very nicely, is very tranquil and I find it to be simply beautiful. This is probably my favourite VN to date. Now onto the routes themselves~!! I hope this won’t come as much of a shock to you, but there will be spoilers here. Some routes posess more detailed spoilers and others are general and vague. I apologize ahead for the length. + Show Spoiler [Arcueid] + Well to be honest, at first I really didn’t like her. I wanted my first playthrough to be a honest, normal school boy playthrough. No mahou shojo, no vampires, no evil beasts, nothing, just an everyday life of a student. I wanted to ignore and get as few events as I possibly could with her, but doing that I either ended up dead or feeling bad about my choices. I don’t quite remember the moment I started to open up to her, but her airheadedness and the very open, friendly personality along with those cute poses and facial expressions won me over. I enjoyed her route, and most of all, the trouble she caused for Shiki. Her true ending was exactly what you’d expect and her good ending was sweet and warm, like cotton candy! Well I never did like the girl, even if I have to admit that see is the main heroine in this game judging solely from her involvement in every route no matter how small. With an outer shell of kindness and friendliness which turn out to be nothing but lies and deceit, but with a fragile mind and soul she didn’t really appeal to me. Her route I feel was overly complex (with Roa’s transmission into Shiki). Being the second main heroine, I can see the need for her to be fundamentally different from Arcueid, but I guess she’s just not as appealing to me as Arcueid. Nevertheless I’m sure she has her fans as well =). Her true ending felt really “meh” to me. There was talk about becoming a vegetable if you wake up, but in the end it never happened (or I misinterpreted the ending). The good ending was probably my favourite in the whole game. It ended in a very good, happy almost harem-like way. I was really happy to see that even after you told Arcueid that you loved Ciel, she didn’t give up on you. I made a rant about this very kind of situation, back when I wrote about “My Girlfriend is the President”. After choosing 1 route the other girls became just supports for the story. Here Arcueid hasn’t given up yet. I really really like that. Ciel’s good ending also ended on a high note, a very funny comedy/harem like situation, which really reinforced my liking of it. There’s also the Kohaku-san incident that was not exactly cleared out + Show Spoiler +Choking her almost to death and jizzing on her . I wish they’d had also tied that up.
Well after having some experience with the game, having finished both main routes before this, I realized I wasn’t quite prepared for what was coming. First of all, these next 3 routes seem to revolve around a completely different set of parameters and flags (thank you TWGOK for the helpful vocabulary!!!). Also, here is most probably the very first time you get to know Yumizuka better. Playing the main routes, it seemed like Satcchin was nothing more than a very simple background character with even less depth and dialogue than Inui Arihiko. Here you find out she had a crush on you and if that piqueted your interest, on the web you can find out that she was one of the heroines that was supposed to have her own route but was scrapped due to time restraints (DAMN YOU TIME, HOW MANY GAMES HAVE YOU RUINED ALREADY?!). I can’t really put into words how I feel about this route. I guess the best way to put it would be, that I felt that this could have been an optional part of 1 of the main routes until the very end of it. Understandably these 3 routes (Hisui, Akiha, Kohaku) are not of the same importance as the 2 main ones, but they still feel unbelievably rich in their own way. I wish I could have been developing my bond with Akiha or the 2 maids, at the same time as chasing vamps with Arcueid. Getting the best of both worlds without the sad Akiha endings. Well I think I ranted enough, onto the endings. Both endings are very dramatic compared to the previous ones, which made me sad. I was hoping for a happy/good ending with Akiha (who is such a cute tsundere btw.) Not necessarily wincest, man/woman love, but a warm, happy ending nevertheless.
The True Ending is what you’d expect Shiki to do, it feels right. Sacrificing yourself for your sister’s sake.
The normal ending is well, sad. Akiha becomes a doll that feeds on your blood only. You remain hopeful that someday she’ll turn back to normal.
There really isn’t a lot to say after that big rant I made on Akiha’s route. Hisuhi’s route has the same set of parameters like Akiha’s but obviously you want to encounter her as much as possible instead of your sister. At first glance she seems cold and professional, but in truth she cares about you a lot. If you put in the effort of getting her flags up, you’ll quickly get a positive response from her. Much like Arcueid, I didn’t think much of her at first, but after getting to know her story, I felt very sad for her and her sister. The plot twist which was her and her sister switching places right after Shiki’s accident wasn’t really much of a shock, but the endings and recollections of the past are both pretty dramatic. During childhood and after it, Hisui was a perfect contradiction to her older sister in character.
The true ending isn’t really fulfilling. Many people died, too much was sacrificed in my opinion. Still, the evil-doers were punished, the good people survived, and the Tohno family received another painful blow for their cursed blood.
The good ending is at the very best bittersweet. Although nobody important died, Kohaku’s fate seemed cruel, but I guess you gotta pay for your sins somehow.
Well Kohaku’s route is vastly different from Hisui’s which was again, quite a shock for me. It seems each route, even if based partially on the same parameters, is tailored uniquely to the heroine. I was quite shocked that Akiha could become such a ruthless murderer on her own. She absorbed Roa, lol.
At the end of Akiha’s route it was still hinted that SHIKI (even though he didn’t have the same model/avatar as in the 2 main routes) was still born with(obviously, since he attack you @ 8 y/o) and influenced by Roa. He said it himself saying “There’s someone in my head that keep telling me to destroy all the time”. What is great about this VN, is that each heroine was a unique story to tell based upon parameters that are quite often overlapping between different routes, but the story manages to remain coherent. There aren’t any glaring plot holes between Akiha’s story and Kohaku’s story even when the heroines switch places being the victim and the executioner.
Although you don’t meet Chaos, Arcueid or the real side of Ciel, their stories about Roa, other vampires, and other information given by them, still remains true. There is no retconing what happened there. I am very impressed.
Also, the sex scenes are very lenghly detailed, although I am not really fond of them as I only really finished reading Arcueid’s fully, and skipped reading the others for the most part.
Kohaku’s ending is actually hilarious. That’s right, I said it. Hilarious. So much malice, so much hatred, so much bad blood but everything turns out well. Everyone important to Shiki survived the meatgrinder. It’s fucking mind boggling =D Solely for this reason I believe this ending to be the 2nd best ending in the game.
+ Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Disclaimer: I am quite fond of Akiha and her route, and it's probably going to show at some point. Arc's route is distressing normal (well, normal for the Nasuverse, anyways). There's a few neat ideas presented in the route, but overall, it's fairly mediocre and nothing particularly eye-opening happens. And that's fine, since you're forced to do this route before any of the others, so it's an intro of sorts to the setting. There's a reason why Ciel consistently scores so low in the character rankings. I didn't like this route much. In my opinion, there's only one good thing about this route. You basically spend the entirety of Arc's route agonizing over whether or not you're Roa. When the exact same thing happens in Ciel's route, you're like "haven't we already done this?" And then you actually do become Roa in the end. I thought it was a nice twist. You know, I think Ciel is the only character I haven't bothered collecting all the CGs for. lol Sacchin. The game is divided into two sections: Arc and Ciel make up the "near side" routes, while Akiha, Hisui, and Kohaku make up the "far side". Roa's personality is dominant in the near side routes, while SHIKI's personality is dominant in the far side. I don't know how you can say that the far side is of lesser importance. Yes, there is less talk about Roa, but the story isn't necessarily about Roa. In any case, I found that the secrets of the Tohno family made for a far more interesting plot than Roa seeking immortality. You want to reduce Akiha's route to a sideplot? I am not okay with that. In my (incredibly biased) opinion, this route has the best romance. Here, we learn that Akiha has prolonged Shiki's life at her own expense (and then he goes and NTRs her in all the other routes -_-), and has basically waited years for him to return. Both of her endings are incredibly tragic. And though it breaks my heart to say this, a good end wouldn't have worked for this route. For instance, Romeo and Juliet wouldn't have had the same emotional impact if they had both lived happily ever after. In much the same way, Akiha's route would have sucked as a romance if she had ended up living with Shiki. Crimson red vermillion is the coolest skill in Tsukihime. Hisui. The mindfuck route. Sentenal is right in that you spend half the route in bed, but overall, I didn't really mind. That's mostly because I quite enjoy the whole "am I a murderer" thing that's Shiki's got going on in most of the routes. Anyway, once you read this route, it's hard to look at Kohaku the same way again. And then when she serves you meals in the other routes... it's pure nightmare fuel. I'd consider this route to be the best in Tsukihime if I didn't like Akiha so much. Kohaku's route felt kinda tacked on to me. We don't really learn anything new here, as it was all covered in Hisui's route. And that ending was incredibly jarring. Whereas all the other routes' true endings are tragic to some degree, Kohaku's is just plain happy. I didn't like it (especially considering that Akiha only got a true and normal end <_<). Incidentally, did you get the bad end where Shiki goes all badass and takes Akiha's head off? It's worth reading just for the awesome factor. And don't even mention the h-scenes. -_- Mollusks. No comment on the epilogue? It gave a little closure, but I guess there's not that much to talk about there. You gonna read Kagetsu Tohya now? Mmmm I still got FMP novels to go through since I got so into Tsukihime that I didn't get a chance to ream them yet, but probably yeah, I'll look for and queue Kagetsu Tohya after FMP. + Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Arc's route did feel a little bland and generic now that I compare them after finishing every heroine, but I still liked her character. I seriously LOLed when Arc was waiting for Shiki in the meeting room with Akiha. I could just imagine how that looked xD. Or how she says "I didn't like your maid so I sent her away but stayed in your room the whole night instead teehee ^_^" Ciel - no comment. And don't you lol @ my Sacchin ;D I was already aware about the 2 sides of the moon. I was really shocked that the dominating personality switched. On the near side, Roa took over for his quest of immortality, while on the far side, Kohaku manipulated him into most of it (well maybe aside from Akiha's route which was still Roa's doing). I really liked Akiha's route in that sense that I could bond with her more as a sis/bro. Her story was touching and great, but I guess the endings and wincest weren't to my taste (even though Shiki isn't her biological brother). The sad endings certainly fit her sides of the story, but I can't help to want a happy ending since I liked this route so much. It's not like I want to reduce her to a subplot, but I also felt it would have been nice to squeeze in a little more of something in here. There was a huge focus on Shiki/Akiha (obviously, that's their route) but some interference would have been nice to go along with it. Hisui's route was annoying. Certainly there was the mindfuck and the truth about Kohaku, but being bedridden and insane wasn't really fun for me . I liked her as a heroine though. Shy, cute and has a crush on you that she hides. Too bad she like Akiha gets 2 endings that are tragic/dramatic. Kohaku's route is Hisui's but you realized who you have to give the ribbon back to. Also who give you a blowjob and a fuck to get out of bed. I still think it's hilarious noone died here. And no, I didn't get the bad ending. For me Akiha returned back to normal and was stronger, she also seemed to be finally cured of her wincest fantasies and switched her affection to someone new, Hisui became more like her maid, and Kohaku went off to work at another mansion that you went to visit in the epilogue. My brain still freezes when I try to comprehend how that all worked out for everybody. It's like I think about it but all I ever see in my head is "Does Not Compute" :| + Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Now that I think about it, you should probably do Plus Disc before you do Kagetsu Tohya. Otherwise, the Seo appearances won't make any sense.
Well Roa doesn't directly manifest but SHIKI's murder spree is still his fault, even in Akiha's route:
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/VDT6V.jpg)
the wierd guy in his head is obviously Roa.
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On February 11 2011 12:34 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 12:25 TimeOut wrote:On February 11 2011 12:21 Zergneedsfood wrote:Daammmmnnn.... + Show Spoiler [Madoka 6] +Was Mami's Soul Gem broken then? I don't explicitly remember that happening.
+ Show Spoiler [Madoka 6] +I checked episode 1 and 3 for evidence of Mami's Soul Gem getting destroyed. We never see it on screen, but her magic dissipates as her head got chewed on. Since every magical girl so far had her Soul Gem somewhere on her body in her transformed stage, I think that Mami's Soul Gem was the jewel on her hat. Since that hat got crushed and chewed on, that might be the reason why she has been killed.
If she hasn't, remember that the dimension collapsed afterwards as Homura killed the witch. Which means that she might be alive. But trapped forever in that alternate dimension, now without an exit as a soul gem, lying next to the chewed remains of her body. + Show Spoiler [Madoka 6] +
Then Madoka is the biggest troll in the world. Why is Mami in the OP if she dies by number 3? -____________-x It's a bit sad and depressing.
But I almost thought I heard her voice in the preview for the next episode. O_O
+ Show Spoiler +Because if she wasn't in it then people might be hinted at the fact that she died. And there's no need to change the OP because they already have the best one ever.
On February 11 2011 12:48 TimeOut wrote:PM I sent to Ferrose regarding this.+ Show Spoiler [Madoka 6] +Original Message From TimeOut:
Well... The Walpurgisnacht is not just a festival or a witch cleansing rite.
There are also two chapters from Goethe's Faust that are titled Walpurgisnacht. The following is based on my loose memory and the short wikipedia article, so it might be wrong in parts: Another scene between Faust and the Devil, wherein the Devil tries to tempt Faust again, because he started to ignore the temptations earlier in favor of Gretchen.
For that purpose, the Devil prepares a great festival on the Witches' hill, but in the meantime there are some tragic elements too, because Gretchen kills her child.
But I won't read through Faust again (far too much work) just to confirm this, so I have to work with secondary sources on the most part.
I think it is far more likely that they put in the reference not only because of the actual festival, but because of the literary connotations between Madoka and Goethe's Faust. Original Message From TimeOut:
Probably. At least they kept most of the themes intact, and even named some of the on-screen titles directly after chapter titles in Faust. For example Madoka's dream in episode 1 had the runic title of "Prolog im Himmel 2011" which is the original title of the Faust prologue (except for the date, which probably hints that this is a modern adaptation of the source).
That the witches and the runic script are based on German characters and direct quotes from the play is another clue.
o/
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I so badly wish I could just marathon these Madoka episodes... Too good to just wait each week.
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Just started Mobile Suit Gundam The 08th MS Team. Judging from the first episode, I think I'm gonna like this show :D
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On February 11 2011 17:55 TimeOut wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 14:37 Ecael wrote:On February 11 2011 14:16 PikaXchU wrote:On February 11 2011 13:31 Ecael wrote:On February 11 2011 13:23 PikaXchU wrote:+ Show Spoiler [madoka] +
Homura probably knew about it, given how she almost instantly chased after the gem.
+ Show Spoiler [madoka] +No, then she would've stopped Madoka. She knows of the importance of the gem, but probably not of the event itself. + Show Spoiler [madoka] +I think she wasn't in time to actually stop madoka. Given by how she reacted, I would say that she knew. Umm it isn't like Madoka wasn't right there. If Homura knew, judging from how her movements have been so far, there is absolutely no way Homura couldn't stop Madoka. + Show Spoiler [Madoka 6, regarding Homura] +I think that Homura knew exactly what would happen. Homura didn't stop Madoka on purpose, so that Madoka could see for herself what happens if she acts rashly in a situation that she doesn't understand. Maybe even to show her again that she will only hurt the people that are important to her (again) when she gets involved with the magical girls again.
Homura started run after the Soul Gem before Sayaka collapsed and returned it directly to her hand, without hearing any of Kyuubey's explanation. There is no way that she would have done exactly that without knowing what would happen.
That only means she knows the significance of the Soul Gem, while that points to Homura being an irregularity, it doesn't mean that she has knowledge of the whole event beforehand. If she did, she could've easily retrieved it in all likelihood. Instead, you see that she reacted visibly shocked to the event, then chased after the gem.
Most of all though, if it was meant to be a lesson to Madoka, Homura would've gave her a little speech about how retarded she is.
On February 11 2011 21:17 VManOfMana wrote:Did anybody else get the Garden of Sinners Blu-ray box? Mine arrived yesterday. Its very, very nicely put together. I really need to take the time to marathon this. + Show Spoiler +
Got mine, haven't gotten the time to behold its glory yet.
On February 11 2011 21:36 Latham wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 21:05 Spazer wrote:On February 11 2011 18:41 Latham wrote:On February 11 2011 09:59 Spazer wrote:On February 11 2011 08:49 Latham wrote:Well guys, I just finished Tsukihime. I really gotta say it's on another whole new level compared to the VNs I played before it. It had a good length and although there were a lot of choices, they were very obvious if you wanted to continue down a specific route. At first I was taken aback a little by the bad graphics, namely in the heroine design department, but as I progressed I really warmed up to them. They seemed so simple and bland, but I quickly grew to accepting them. Although there were no voices, I quite enjoyed reading everything. The story was quite easy to grasp and follow, although the first 2 routes (Arcueid and Ciel) don’t answer all the questions one might have from the things he sees and reads, after all the routes, many of the previous blanks are filled. The only thing I regret is not having a Yumizuka Satsuki route. I somehow liked the girl. I just hope the rumored remake of Tsukihime will really have a route dedicated to her =) The music fits very nicely, is very tranquil and I find it to be simply beautiful. This is probably my favourite VN to date. Now onto the routes themselves~!! I hope this won’t come as much of a shock to you, but there will be spoilers here. Some routes posess more detailed spoilers and others are general and vague. I apologize ahead for the length. + Show Spoiler [Arcueid] + Well to be honest, at first I really didn’t like her. I wanted my first playthrough to be a honest, normal school boy playthrough. No mahou shojo, no vampires, no evil beasts, nothing, just an everyday life of a student. I wanted to ignore and get as few events as I possibly could with her, but doing that I either ended up dead or feeling bad about my choices. I don’t quite remember the moment I started to open up to her, but her airheadedness and the very open, friendly personality along with those cute poses and facial expressions won me over. I enjoyed her route, and most of all, the trouble she caused for Shiki. Her true ending was exactly what you’d expect and her good ending was sweet and warm, like cotton candy! Well I never did like the girl, even if I have to admit that see is the main heroine in this game judging solely from her involvement in every route no matter how small. With an outer shell of kindness and friendliness which turn out to be nothing but lies and deceit, but with a fragile mind and soul she didn’t really appeal to me. Her route I feel was overly complex (with Roa’s transmission into Shiki). Being the second main heroine, I can see the need for her to be fundamentally different from Arcueid, but I guess she’s just not as appealing to me as Arcueid. Nevertheless I’m sure she has her fans as well =). Her true ending felt really “meh” to me. There was talk about becoming a vegetable if you wake up, but in the end it never happened (or I misinterpreted the ending). The good ending was probably my favourite in the whole game. It ended in a very good, happy almost harem-like way. I was really happy to see that even after you told Arcueid that you loved Ciel, she didn’t give up on you. I made a rant about this very kind of situation, back when I wrote about “My Girlfriend is the President”. After choosing 1 route the other girls became just supports for the story. Here Arcueid hasn’t given up yet. I really really like that. Ciel’s good ending also ended on a high note, a very funny comedy/harem like situation, which really reinforced my liking of it. There’s also the Kohaku-san incident that was not exactly cleared out + Show Spoiler +Choking her almost to death and jizzing on her . I wish they’d had also tied that up.
Well after having some experience with the game, having finished both main routes before this, I realized I wasn’t quite prepared for what was coming. First of all, these next 3 routes seem to revolve around a completely different set of parameters and flags (thank you TWGOK for the helpful vocabulary!!!). Also, here is most probably the very first time you get to know Yumizuka better. Playing the main routes, it seemed like Satcchin was nothing more than a very simple background character with even less depth and dialogue than Inui Arihiko. Here you find out she had a crush on you and if that piqueted your interest, on the web you can find out that she was one of the heroines that was supposed to have her own route but was scrapped due to time restraints (DAMN YOU TIME, HOW MANY GAMES HAVE YOU RUINED ALREADY?!). I can’t really put into words how I feel about this route. I guess the best way to put it would be, that I felt that this could have been an optional part of 1 of the main routes until the very end of it. Understandably these 3 routes (Hisui, Akiha, Kohaku) are not of the same importance as the 2 main ones, but they still feel unbelievably rich in their own way. I wish I could have been developing my bond with Akiha or the 2 maids, at the same time as chasing vamps with Arcueid. Getting the best of both worlds without the sad Akiha endings. Well I think I ranted enough, onto the endings. Both endings are very dramatic compared to the previous ones, which made me sad. I was hoping for a happy/good ending with Akiha (who is such a cute tsundere btw.) Not necessarily wincest, man/woman love, but a warm, happy ending nevertheless.
The True Ending is what you’d expect Shiki to do, it feels right. Sacrificing yourself for your sister’s sake.
The normal ending is well, sad. Akiha becomes a doll that feeds on your blood only. You remain hopeful that someday she’ll turn back to normal.
There really isn’t a lot to say after that big rant I made on Akiha’s route. Hisuhi’s route has the same set of parameters like Akiha’s but obviously you want to encounter her as much as possible instead of your sister. At first glance she seems cold and professional, but in truth she cares about you a lot. If you put in the effort of getting her flags up, you’ll quickly get a positive response from her. Much like Arcueid, I didn’t think much of her at first, but after getting to know her story, I felt very sad for her and her sister. The plot twist which was her and her sister switching places right after Shiki’s accident wasn’t really much of a shock, but the endings and recollections of the past are both pretty dramatic. During childhood and after it, Hisui was a perfect contradiction to her older sister in character.
The true ending isn’t really fulfilling. Many people died, too much was sacrificed in my opinion. Still, the evil-doers were punished, the good people survived, and the Tohno family received another painful blow for their cursed blood.
The good ending is at the very best bittersweet. Although nobody important died, Kohaku’s fate seemed cruel, but I guess you gotta pay for your sins somehow.
Well Kohaku’s route is vastly different from Hisui’s which was again, quite a shock for me. It seems each route, even if based partially on the same parameters, is tailored uniquely to the heroine. I was quite shocked that Akiha could become such a ruthless murderer on her own. She absorbed Roa, lol.
At the end of Akiha’s route it was still hinted that SHIKI (even though he didn’t have the same model/avatar as in the 2 main routes) was still born with(obviously, since he attack you @ 8 y/o) and influenced by Roa. He said it himself saying “There’s someone in my head that keep telling me to destroy all the time”. What is great about this VN, is that each heroine was a unique story to tell based upon parameters that are quite often overlapping between different routes, but the story manages to remain coherent. There aren’t any glaring plot holes between Akiha’s story and Kohaku’s story even when the heroines switch places being the victim and the executioner.
Although you don’t meet Chaos, Arcueid or the real side of Ciel, their stories about Roa, other vampires, and other information given by them, still remains true. There is no retconing what happened there. I am very impressed.
Also, the sex scenes are very lenghly detailed, although I am not really fond of them as I only really finished reading Arcueid’s fully, and skipped reading the others for the most part.
Kohaku’s ending is actually hilarious. That’s right, I said it. Hilarious. So much malice, so much hatred, so much bad blood but everything turns out well. Everyone important to Shiki survived the meatgrinder. It’s fucking mind boggling =D Solely for this reason I believe this ending to be the 2nd best ending in the game.
+ Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Disclaimer: I am quite fond of Akiha and her route, and it's probably going to show at some point. Arc's route is distressing normal (well, normal for the Nasuverse, anyways). There's a few neat ideas presented in the route, but overall, it's fairly mediocre and nothing particularly eye-opening happens. And that's fine, since you're forced to do this route before any of the others, so it's an intro of sorts to the setting. There's a reason why Ciel consistently scores so low in the character rankings. I didn't like this route much. In my opinion, there's only one good thing about this route. You basically spend the entirety of Arc's route agonizing over whether or not you're Roa. When the exact same thing happens in Ciel's route, you're like "haven't we already done this?" And then you actually do become Roa in the end. I thought it was a nice twist. You know, I think Ciel is the only character I haven't bothered collecting all the CGs for. lol Sacchin. The game is divided into two sections: Arc and Ciel make up the "near side" routes, while Akiha, Hisui, and Kohaku make up the "far side". Roa's personality is dominant in the near side routes, while SHIKI's personality is dominant in the far side. I don't know how you can say that the far side is of lesser importance. Yes, there is less talk about Roa, but the story isn't necessarily about Roa. In any case, I found that the secrets of the Tohno family made for a far more interesting plot than Roa seeking immortality. You want to reduce Akiha's route to a sideplot? I am not okay with that. In my (incredibly biased) opinion, this route has the best romance. Here, we learn that Akiha has prolonged Shiki's life at her own expense (and then he goes and NTRs her in all the other routes -_-), and has basically waited years for him to return. Both of her endings are incredibly tragic. And though it breaks my heart to say this, a good end wouldn't have worked for this route. For instance, Romeo and Juliet wouldn't have had the same emotional impact if they had both lived happily ever after. In much the same way, Akiha's route would have sucked as a romance if she had ended up living with Shiki. Crimson red vermillion is the coolest skill in Tsukihime. Hisui. The mindfuck route. Sentenal is right in that you spend half the route in bed, but overall, I didn't really mind. That's mostly because I quite enjoy the whole "am I a murderer" thing that's Shiki's got going on in most of the routes. Anyway, once you read this route, it's hard to look at Kohaku the same way again. And then when she serves you meals in the other routes... it's pure nightmare fuel. I'd consider this route to be the best in Tsukihime if I didn't like Akiha so much. Kohaku's route felt kinda tacked on to me. We don't really learn anything new here, as it was all covered in Hisui's route. And that ending was incredibly jarring. Whereas all the other routes' true endings are tragic to some degree, Kohaku's is just plain happy. I didn't like it (especially considering that Akiha only got a true and normal end <_<). Incidentally, did you get the bad end where Shiki goes all badass and takes Akiha's head off? It's worth reading just for the awesome factor. And don't even mention the h-scenes. -_- Mollusks. No comment on the epilogue? It gave a little closure, but I guess there's not that much to talk about there. You gonna read Kagetsu Tohya now? Mmmm I still got FMP novels to go through since I got so into Tsukihime that I didn't get a chance to ream them yet, but probably yeah, I'll look for and queue Kagetsu Tohya after FMP. + Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Arc's route did feel a little bland and generic now that I compare them after finishing every heroine, but I still liked her character. I seriously LOLed when Arc was waiting for Shiki in the meeting room with Akiha. I could just imagine how that looked xD. Or how she says "I didn't like your maid so I sent her away but stayed in your room the whole night instead teehee ^_^" Ciel - no comment. And don't you lol @ my Sacchin ;D I was already aware about the 2 sides of the moon. I was really shocked that the dominating personality switched. On the near side, Roa took over for his quest of immortality, while on the far side, Kohaku manipulated him into most of it (well maybe aside from Akiha's route which was still Roa's doing). I really liked Akiha's route in that sense that I could bond with her more as a sis/bro. Her story was touching and great, but I guess the endings and wincest weren't to my taste (even though Shiki isn't her biological brother). The sad endings certainly fit her sides of the story, but I can't help to want a happy ending since I liked this route so much. It's not like I want to reduce her to a subplot, but I also felt it would have been nice to squeeze in a little more of something in here. There was a huge focus on Shiki/Akiha (obviously, that's their route) but some interference would have been nice to go along with it. Hisui's route was annoying. Certainly there was the mindfuck and the truth about Kohaku, but being bedridden and insane wasn't really fun for me . I liked her as a heroine though. Shy, cute and has a crush on you that she hides. Too bad she like Akiha gets 2 endings that are tragic/dramatic. Kohaku's route is Hisui's but you realized who you have to give the ribbon back to. Also who give you a blowjob and a fuck to get out of bed. I still think it's hilarious noone died here. And no, I didn't get the bad ending. For me Akiha returned back to normal and was stronger, she also seemed to be finally cured of her wincest fantasies and switched her affection to someone new, Hisui became more like her maid, and Kohaku went off to work at another mansion that you went to visit in the epilogue. My brain still freezes when I try to comprehend how that all worked out for everybody. It's like I think about it but all I ever see in my head is "Does Not Compute" :| + Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Now that I think about it, you should probably do Plus Disc before you do Kagetsu Tohya. Otherwise, the Seo appearances won't make any sense. Well Roa doesn't directly manifest but SHIKI's murder spree is still his fault, even in Akiha's route: the wierd guy in his head is obviously Roa.
Actually, it is questionable. That SHIKI would be able to stay relatively stable for so long is kind of odd. It is suggested from point to point that + Show Spoiler + is what's behind the spree in question as the 3 routes of the Tohno family are all supposed to follow the same general turn of events.
For the thing you two are going off about Kohaku route, + Show Spoiler +imo taking into consideration of the bond that Kohaku and Akiha has is extremely important. Hisui route was a demonstration of how the said bond made everything turn for the worse, Kohaku route was about how Shiki made the difference and allowed things to turn for the better. Kohaku's redemption lies mostly in how she and Akiha were really like sisters to each other, but for the whole of Hisui and Akiha route, Kohaku lacked any kind of trigger (Shiki) to turn back the plot that she has had going for years. Those 2 routes are both so tragic partly because you realize that such a disaster could have been averted, and not just because of the events in and of themselves.
This requires a certain view on the far side routes though, that the vampires' influence in this route, other than the presence of Sacchin, is minimal. Given how Roa was completely not played up in Hisui and Kohaku route, as they are partially fact revelation routes about Akiha route, we can assume that the Roa manifestation in SHIKI for the far side is either completely dormant or just not present. In general, it is assumed that other than the the childhood event with SHIKI and Shiki, Kohaku has engineered every major event behind the Tohno family. So really, she has had this thing going for years.
and seriously, who is the only gamer in the Tsukihime universe? Kohaku, that's right. She can't be anything but awesome.
EDIT - See proof! http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=big&illust_id=11445363
Also proof #2, when people refer to her in Japanese, there is like a 95% chance of them adding -san, because she commands respect. We'd use -sama if Akiha didn't steal the ojou-chara status.
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On February 11 2011 13:48 Spazer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 13:42 Sentenal wrote:On February 11 2011 13:32 Spazer wrote:On February 11 2011 13:29 Sentenal wrote:IS + Show Spoiler +So, France's breasts triple in size when shes naked or has the harem dictates, AND I STILL DIDN'T GET MY FUCKING REVOLVER STAKE GOD DAMNIT THAT WOULD BE THE PERFECT WEAPON TO OWN ICHIKA WITH. Maybe next episode. + Show Spoiler [IS next ep] +Next ep preview showed Germany vs Britain/China.
If we're lucky, we'll get Germany vs France/Ichika as well.
If we're really lucky, we'll get Germany vs Ichika after that.
And if I'm lucky, we'll get the bath scenes. + Show Spoiler +I doubt that Germany can overcome Ichika's plot armor. But I want to see France actually fight. Actually, I just want Strike Freedom and Alteisen to just blow stuff up by themselves every episode, but the anime isn't going in that direction + Show Spoiler [If you really want to know what happens] +Germany and France are the two best pilots in the series. So obviously France + Ichika > Germany. Ichika is supposedly the best when he gets serious. His suit is pretty OP as well. So, Ichika > Germany. Supposedly he's really good at tactics or whatever. I guess plot armor would be a good description after all. While I agree that having more fights would be awesome, I'm not opposed to the harem elements, especially since there should be a ton of France in upcoming episodes. Some extra thoughts: Ichika blushed when France thanked him. Ichika wanted to know why France wouldn't change with him. Ichika barges into the shower when France is in there. Nobody in this harem's gonna win if Ichika swings that way. <_< Edit: Rewatching this ep just because. I could listen to Kana Hanezawa all day. Madoka's reaction to the events she's been exposed to might be frustrating to watch, but it's realistic. Do you seriously think that a girl her age would be able to watch somebody die and still remain resolute?
I loved that part in the locker room where Ichika turned gay or something. He's like "We need to change together sometime! *puts arm around France* Don't be so cold!"
On February 11 2011 14:03 Gao Xi wrote:
Madoka is a little annoying as in, her ideals or w/e solving anything without fighting, not her reactions.
Solving problems without fighting is bad? Wtf?
Ahh, 1998.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/PdcMv.png)
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I was joking with Southlight about writing a wall of text in regards to Latham's thoughts about Tsukihime. That lazy bum just decided that they were mostly opinions anyway so doesn't really require a wall of text. So I guess I have to take it upon myself to hype Kohaku-san in my last post.
Oh and I missed the thing about Seo. You don't really need to do Plus Disk, just ask here about what Seo is and Southlight and I will just tell you about how she is really Seo from Kara no Kyoukai but copy-pasted over
and yeah, 1998, so good. Curse whoever mentioned Nadesico in this thread recently though, now you have gotten me to want to look for the bluray box for download...or maybe I'll just watch the movie and read the light novels and call that it.
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On February 11 2011 23:25 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 17:55 TimeOut wrote:On February 11 2011 14:37 Ecael wrote:On February 11 2011 14:16 PikaXchU wrote:On February 11 2011 13:31 Ecael wrote:On February 11 2011 13:23 PikaXchU wrote:+ Show Spoiler [madoka] +
Homura probably knew about it, given how she almost instantly chased after the gem.
+ Show Spoiler [madoka] +No, then she would've stopped Madoka. She knows of the importance of the gem, but probably not of the event itself. + Show Spoiler [madoka] +I think she wasn't in time to actually stop madoka. Given by how she reacted, I would say that she knew. Umm it isn't like Madoka wasn't right there. If Homura knew, judging from how her movements have been so far, there is absolutely no way Homura couldn't stop Madoka. + Show Spoiler [Madoka 6, regarding Homura] +I think that Homura knew exactly what would happen. Homura didn't stop Madoka on purpose, so that Madoka could see for herself what happens if she acts rashly in a situation that she doesn't understand. Maybe even to show her again that she will only hurt the people that are important to her (again) when she gets involved with the magical girls again.
Homura started run after the Soul Gem before Sayaka collapsed and returned it directly to her hand, without hearing any of Kyuubey's explanation. There is no way that she would have done exactly that without knowing what would happen. That only means she knows the significance of the Soul Gem, while that points to Homura being an irregularity, it doesn't mean that she has knowledge of the whole event beforehand. If she did, she could've easily retrieved it in all likelihood. Instead, you see that she reacted visibly shocked to the event, then chased after the gem. Most of all though, if it was meant to be a lesson to Madoka, Homura would've gave her a little speech about how retarded she is. Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 21:17 VManOfMana wrote:Did anybody else get the Garden of Sinners Blu-ray box? Mine arrived yesterday. Its very, very nicely put together. I really need to take the time to marathon this. + Show Spoiler + Got mine, haven't gotten the time to behold its glory yet. Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 21:36 Latham wrote:On February 11 2011 21:05 Spazer wrote:On February 11 2011 18:41 Latham wrote:On February 11 2011 09:59 Spazer wrote:On February 11 2011 08:49 Latham wrote:Well guys, I just finished Tsukihime. I really gotta say it's on another whole new level compared to the VNs I played before it. It had a good length and although there were a lot of choices, they were very obvious if you wanted to continue down a specific route. At first I was taken aback a little by the bad graphics, namely in the heroine design department, but as I progressed I really warmed up to them. They seemed so simple and bland, but I quickly grew to accepting them. Although there were no voices, I quite enjoyed reading everything. The story was quite easy to grasp and follow, although the first 2 routes (Arcueid and Ciel) don’t answer all the questions one might have from the things he sees and reads, after all the routes, many of the previous blanks are filled. The only thing I regret is not having a Yumizuka Satsuki route. I somehow liked the girl. I just hope the rumored remake of Tsukihime will really have a route dedicated to her =) The music fits very nicely, is very tranquil and I find it to be simply beautiful. This is probably my favourite VN to date. Now onto the routes themselves~!! I hope this won’t come as much of a shock to you, but there will be spoilers here. Some routes posess more detailed spoilers and others are general and vague. I apologize ahead for the length. + Show Spoiler [Arcueid] + Well to be honest, at first I really didn’t like her. I wanted my first playthrough to be a honest, normal school boy playthrough. No mahou shojo, no vampires, no evil beasts, nothing, just an everyday life of a student. I wanted to ignore and get as few events as I possibly could with her, but doing that I either ended up dead or feeling bad about my choices. I don’t quite remember the moment I started to open up to her, but her airheadedness and the very open, friendly personality along with those cute poses and facial expressions won me over. I enjoyed her route, and most of all, the trouble she caused for Shiki. Her true ending was exactly what you’d expect and her good ending was sweet and warm, like cotton candy! Well I never did like the girl, even if I have to admit that see is the main heroine in this game judging solely from her involvement in every route no matter how small. With an outer shell of kindness and friendliness which turn out to be nothing but lies and deceit, but with a fragile mind and soul she didn’t really appeal to me. Her route I feel was overly complex (with Roa’s transmission into Shiki). Being the second main heroine, I can see the need for her to be fundamentally different from Arcueid, but I guess she’s just not as appealing to me as Arcueid. Nevertheless I’m sure she has her fans as well =). Her true ending felt really “meh” to me. There was talk about becoming a vegetable if you wake up, but in the end it never happened (or I misinterpreted the ending). The good ending was probably my favourite in the whole game. It ended in a very good, happy almost harem-like way. I was really happy to see that even after you told Arcueid that you loved Ciel, she didn’t give up on you. I made a rant about this very kind of situation, back when I wrote about “My Girlfriend is the President”. After choosing 1 route the other girls became just supports for the story. Here Arcueid hasn’t given up yet. I really really like that. Ciel’s good ending also ended on a high note, a very funny comedy/harem like situation, which really reinforced my liking of it. There’s also the Kohaku-san incident that was not exactly cleared out + Show Spoiler +Choking her almost to death and jizzing on her . I wish they’d had also tied that up.
Well after having some experience with the game, having finished both main routes before this, I realized I wasn’t quite prepared for what was coming. First of all, these next 3 routes seem to revolve around a completely different set of parameters and flags (thank you TWGOK for the helpful vocabulary!!!). Also, here is most probably the very first time you get to know Yumizuka better. Playing the main routes, it seemed like Satcchin was nothing more than a very simple background character with even less depth and dialogue than Inui Arihiko. Here you find out she had a crush on you and if that piqueted your interest, on the web you can find out that she was one of the heroines that was supposed to have her own route but was scrapped due to time restraints (DAMN YOU TIME, HOW MANY GAMES HAVE YOU RUINED ALREADY?!). I can’t really put into words how I feel about this route. I guess the best way to put it would be, that I felt that this could have been an optional part of 1 of the main routes until the very end of it. Understandably these 3 routes (Hisui, Akiha, Kohaku) are not of the same importance as the 2 main ones, but they still feel unbelievably rich in their own way. I wish I could have been developing my bond with Akiha or the 2 maids, at the same time as chasing vamps with Arcueid. Getting the best of both worlds without the sad Akiha endings. Well I think I ranted enough, onto the endings. Both endings are very dramatic compared to the previous ones, which made me sad. I was hoping for a happy/good ending with Akiha (who is such a cute tsundere btw.) Not necessarily wincest, man/woman love, but a warm, happy ending nevertheless.
The True Ending is what you’d expect Shiki to do, it feels right. Sacrificing yourself for your sister’s sake.
The normal ending is well, sad. Akiha becomes a doll that feeds on your blood only. You remain hopeful that someday she’ll turn back to normal.
There really isn’t a lot to say after that big rant I made on Akiha’s route. Hisuhi’s route has the same set of parameters like Akiha’s but obviously you want to encounter her as much as possible instead of your sister. At first glance she seems cold and professional, but in truth she cares about you a lot. If you put in the effort of getting her flags up, you’ll quickly get a positive response from her. Much like Arcueid, I didn’t think much of her at first, but after getting to know her story, I felt very sad for her and her sister. The plot twist which was her and her sister switching places right after Shiki’s accident wasn’t really much of a shock, but the endings and recollections of the past are both pretty dramatic. During childhood and after it, Hisui was a perfect contradiction to her older sister in character.
The true ending isn’t really fulfilling. Many people died, too much was sacrificed in my opinion. Still, the evil-doers were punished, the good people survived, and the Tohno family received another painful blow for their cursed blood.
The good ending is at the very best bittersweet. Although nobody important died, Kohaku’s fate seemed cruel, but I guess you gotta pay for your sins somehow.
Well Kohaku’s route is vastly different from Hisui’s which was again, quite a shock for me. It seems each route, even if based partially on the same parameters, is tailored uniquely to the heroine. I was quite shocked that Akiha could become such a ruthless murderer on her own. She absorbed Roa, lol.
At the end of Akiha’s route it was still hinted that SHIKI (even though he didn’t have the same model/avatar as in the 2 main routes) was still born with(obviously, since he attack you @ 8 y/o) and influenced by Roa. He said it himself saying “There’s someone in my head that keep telling me to destroy all the time”. What is great about this VN, is that each heroine was a unique story to tell based upon parameters that are quite often overlapping between different routes, but the story manages to remain coherent. There aren’t any glaring plot holes between Akiha’s story and Kohaku’s story even when the heroines switch places being the victim and the executioner.
Although you don’t meet Chaos, Arcueid or the real side of Ciel, their stories about Roa, other vampires, and other information given by them, still remains true. There is no retconing what happened there. I am very impressed.
Also, the sex scenes are very lenghly detailed, although I am not really fond of them as I only really finished reading Arcueid’s fully, and skipped reading the others for the most part.
Kohaku’s ending is actually hilarious. That’s right, I said it. Hilarious. So much malice, so much hatred, so much bad blood but everything turns out well. Everyone important to Shiki survived the meatgrinder. It’s fucking mind boggling =D Solely for this reason I believe this ending to be the 2nd best ending in the game.
+ Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Disclaimer: I am quite fond of Akiha and her route, and it's probably going to show at some point. Arc's route is distressing normal (well, normal for the Nasuverse, anyways). There's a few neat ideas presented in the route, but overall, it's fairly mediocre and nothing particularly eye-opening happens. And that's fine, since you're forced to do this route before any of the others, so it's an intro of sorts to the setting. There's a reason why Ciel consistently scores so low in the character rankings. I didn't like this route much. In my opinion, there's only one good thing about this route. You basically spend the entirety of Arc's route agonizing over whether or not you're Roa. When the exact same thing happens in Ciel's route, you're like "haven't we already done this?" And then you actually do become Roa in the end. I thought it was a nice twist. You know, I think Ciel is the only character I haven't bothered collecting all the CGs for. lol Sacchin. The game is divided into two sections: Arc and Ciel make up the "near side" routes, while Akiha, Hisui, and Kohaku make up the "far side". Roa's personality is dominant in the near side routes, while SHIKI's personality is dominant in the far side. I don't know how you can say that the far side is of lesser importance. Yes, there is less talk about Roa, but the story isn't necessarily about Roa. In any case, I found that the secrets of the Tohno family made for a far more interesting plot than Roa seeking immortality. You want to reduce Akiha's route to a sideplot? I am not okay with that. In my (incredibly biased) opinion, this route has the best romance. Here, we learn that Akiha has prolonged Shiki's life at her own expense (and then he goes and NTRs her in all the other routes -_-), and has basically waited years for him to return. Both of her endings are incredibly tragic. And though it breaks my heart to say this, a good end wouldn't have worked for this route. For instance, Romeo and Juliet wouldn't have had the same emotional impact if they had both lived happily ever after. In much the same way, Akiha's route would have sucked as a romance if she had ended up living with Shiki. Crimson red vermillion is the coolest skill in Tsukihime. Hisui. The mindfuck route. Sentenal is right in that you spend half the route in bed, but overall, I didn't really mind. That's mostly because I quite enjoy the whole "am I a murderer" thing that's Shiki's got going on in most of the routes. Anyway, once you read this route, it's hard to look at Kohaku the same way again. And then when she serves you meals in the other routes... it's pure nightmare fuel. I'd consider this route to be the best in Tsukihime if I didn't like Akiha so much. Kohaku's route felt kinda tacked on to me. We don't really learn anything new here, as it was all covered in Hisui's route. And that ending was incredibly jarring. Whereas all the other routes' true endings are tragic to some degree, Kohaku's is just plain happy. I didn't like it (especially considering that Akiha only got a true and normal end <_<). Incidentally, did you get the bad end where Shiki goes all badass and takes Akiha's head off? It's worth reading just for the awesome factor. And don't even mention the h-scenes. -_- Mollusks. No comment on the epilogue? It gave a little closure, but I guess there's not that much to talk about there. You gonna read Kagetsu Tohya now? Mmmm I still got FMP novels to go through since I got so into Tsukihime that I didn't get a chance to ream them yet, but probably yeah, I'll look for and queue Kagetsu Tohya after FMP. + Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Arc's route did feel a little bland and generic now that I compare them after finishing every heroine, but I still liked her character. I seriously LOLed when Arc was waiting for Shiki in the meeting room with Akiha. I could just imagine how that looked xD. Or how she says "I didn't like your maid so I sent her away but stayed in your room the whole night instead teehee ^_^" Ciel - no comment. And don't you lol @ my Sacchin ;D I was already aware about the 2 sides of the moon. I was really shocked that the dominating personality switched. On the near side, Roa took over for his quest of immortality, while on the far side, Kohaku manipulated him into most of it (well maybe aside from Akiha's route which was still Roa's doing). I really liked Akiha's route in that sense that I could bond with her more as a sis/bro. Her story was touching and great, but I guess the endings and wincest weren't to my taste (even though Shiki isn't her biological brother). The sad endings certainly fit her sides of the story, but I can't help to want a happy ending since I liked this route so much. It's not like I want to reduce her to a subplot, but I also felt it would have been nice to squeeze in a little more of something in here. There was a huge focus on Shiki/Akiha (obviously, that's their route) but some interference would have been nice to go along with it. Hisui's route was annoying. Certainly there was the mindfuck and the truth about Kohaku, but being bedridden and insane wasn't really fun for me . I liked her as a heroine though. Shy, cute and has a crush on you that she hides. Too bad she like Akiha gets 2 endings that are tragic/dramatic. Kohaku's route is Hisui's but you realized who you have to give the ribbon back to. Also who give you a blowjob and a fuck to get out of bed. I still think it's hilarious noone died here. And no, I didn't get the bad ending. For me Akiha returned back to normal and was stronger, she also seemed to be finally cured of her wincest fantasies and switched her affection to someone new, Hisui became more like her maid, and Kohaku went off to work at another mansion that you went to visit in the epilogue. My brain still freezes when I try to comprehend how that all worked out for everybody. It's like I think about it but all I ever see in my head is "Does Not Compute" :| + Show Spoiler [Tsukihime] +Now that I think about it, you should probably do Plus Disc before you do Kagetsu Tohya. Otherwise, the Seo appearances won't make any sense. Well Roa doesn't directly manifest but SHIKI's murder spree is still his fault, even in Akiha's route: the wierd guy in his head is obviously Roa. Actually, it is questionable. That SHIKI would be able to stay relatively stable for so long is kind of odd. It is suggested from point to point that + Show Spoiler + is what's behind the spree in question as the 3 routes of the Tohno family are all supposed to follow the same general turn of events. For the thing you two are going off about Kohaku route, + Show Spoiler +imo taking into consideration of the bond that Kohaku and Akiha has is extremely important. Hisui route was a demonstration of how the said bond made everything turn for the worse, Kohaku route was about how Shiki made the difference and allowed things to turn for the better. Kohaku's redemption lies mostly in how she and Akiha were really like sisters to each other, but for the whole of Hisui and Akiha route, Kohaku lacked any kind of trigger (Shiki) to turn back the plot that she has had going for years. Those 2 routes are both so tragic partly because you realize that such a disaster could have been averted, and not just because of the events in and of themselves.
This requires a certain view on the far side routes though, that the vampires' influence in this route, other than the presence of Sacchin, is minimal. Given how Roa was completely not played up in Hisui and Kohaku route, as they are partially fact revelation routes about Akiha route, we can assume that the Roa manifestation in SHIKI for the far side is either completely dormant or just not present. In general, it is assumed that other than the the childhood event with SHIKI and Shiki, Kohaku has engineered every major event behind the Tohno family. So really, she has had this thing going for years. and seriously, who is the only gamer in the Tsukihime universe? Kohaku, that's right. She can't be anything but awesome. EDIT - See proof! http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=big&illust_id=11445363Also proof #2, when people refer to her in Japanese, there is like a 95% chance of them adding -san, because she commands respect. We'd use -sama if Akiha didn't steal the ojou-chara status.
Well, I'd still like to argue about the Roa/Kohaku part in Akiha's route. While playing Kohaku's route there was a conversation where Shiki said "I don't like taking pills because doctors don't tell me what they are for. I feel like a guinea pig. But you Kohaku, are different. I can trust you".
After that, her facial expression turns sour, but she nods and Shiki eats the pills she gives him. The very next morning Shiki stopped being so concerned about Akiha's condition even though the night before taking the pills, he insisted on visiting Akiha in her room which was denied by Kohaku.
That can either be Shiki being himself, or the manipulative drug (made from the Korean Morning Glories, I presume but she had a whole garden in the back yard so it could have been any other plant she raised) taking effect.
I can only assume the drug makes people more open to suggestions and like it was said in the VN itself, works like anesthesia.
I can't find any other explanation for his 180 degree twist in behaviour over the course of a single night.
Also, I believe that Akiha's route to be like the middle path in the game, taking elements from the main routes and the maid routes. That's why she operates on mostly the same parameters the 2 maids do, but still has Ciel play a reasonably big part in there. I still stand by my reasoning for the rampage being Roa not Kohaku's manipulation.
Kohaku already scored major point for watch TV and sharing it with Shiki. + that game looks weird D: It's like she's playing some VN(Tsukihime possibly?) with her sister as the heroine. Does she roll like that?
Also, gief wall of text D: just split it up into paragraphs so my eyes won't bleed out before finishing it.
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