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If you come in here looking for "anime recommendations" then please refer to this chart before posting: Anime Recommendations (as of may 2014). We also have an IRC channel called #tladt where we all hang out. The channel is on Rizon, not QuakeNet! Feel free to check it out. TLADT discord is Discord.ggFor currently airing anime, please see Anichart.net |
On January 28 2012 08:44 Ryndika wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 08:40 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 08:37 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 08:32 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 08:20 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 08:05 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 07:55 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 07:48 xrapture wrote:On January 28 2012 06:47 matiK23 wrote:
So where are we watching anime now that Megavideo is no more? Preferably at home on Netflix or from a dvd you bought, instead of pirating, stealing money from the people that produced the content, and giving evidence that SOPA may be worthwhile. Where do you buy anime? I could only find few to buy but couldn't find Elfen lied, Mind game, Bakemonogatari/Nisemonogatari, Yosuga no Sora, REC, Genshiken - just some of my favourite animes I love. There's also limit on what sites people dare to put credit card info.. (contains content related to ethics) + Show Spoiler +I don' t think I took any money from anyones pocket, I'd sure support some ppl for doing things I love like 99% people but for reasonable amount and for reasonable method. There was that thread about piracy of knowledge and such in forms of self-help books or textbooks should be free, I had a good laugh at that. That said, trying to suggest that getting contents that are meant to be distributed for money at no cost is not incurring losses on the provider is silly. The losses might not be actualized, you might simply not want to bother with the product at all if it is priced, etc, the act in itself is still stealing essentially. I don't really see the point in trying to justify that just so that you can feel better. Reasonable amount and reasonable method? What is that, lol. They have an international market with different cultures and shitty logistics to overcome. The reasonable amount to them and to you is obviously going to be different. If anything, as the providers, they should have the say on what is reasonable. What you feel on the matter is frankly completely irrelevant. Bake/Nise getting official DVD would be sad, I'd hate to see English for that. Yosuga and REC both not licensed here probably. Genshiken I don't know, Elfen Lied definitely should have something in English, and nfc what mind game is supposed to be. On January 28 2012 08:00 Emnjay808 wrote:On January 28 2012 07:53 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 07:48 xrapture wrote:On January 28 2012 06:47 matiK23 wrote:
So where are we watching anime now that Megavideo is no more? Preferably at home on Netflix or from a dvd you bought, instead of pirating, stealing money from the people that produced the content, and giving evidence that SOPA may be worthwhile. Real morals. Shrug, availability of anime by official sources in other regions tends to be poor, suffering though official subs or even worse, dubs, is pretty horrifying. If you are going to take a moral highground, at least offer more viable sources like crunchyroll. I spoilered it because I have no desire to start talking about moral and ethics to someone I don't know irl, is from totally different culture and in internet forum. Please respond to post itself and dont attach to other peoples morals. However leaving ethic, foaming and arrogance like that aside (like you said it's silly to think something because "?" - because copy=stealing) I don't feel a bit bad for pirating anime. But I'm not either gonna say you are wrong, I'd like to just have some objective reasoning and not subjective terms and personal morals. Actually I'm not sure if I've actually pirated any episodes yet.. Is this international market a website you can buy anime with subs or a theme/idea whatever? (Not native english speaker.) By reasonable price I meant that elfen lied shouldn't cost 140€ especially when you don't know what you will get. Reasonable method like steam/iTunes or from local Mall.
My problem and wonder how to get those animes legimately? In my original post I didn't actually imo represent myself as some kind of "FREE MOVIES FOR EVERYONE"-guy.
Would love to see answer to that.
e: Mind Game is a good movie. I recommend it. My point is merely that there is nothing to justify piracy. I don't condone it, nor do I say that you shouldn't do it. It is just nonsensical to try to justify an action that's clearly harmful to the content providers, especially with your sense of "reasonable" price and method. If we are to discuss how things should get done ideally, yeah, a lot of what you consider reasonable would in fact be so. That means nothing in light of how things are actually done though. The content providers are slowly working with other methods of gaining revenue like using online distribution (more streaming than the iTunes/steam kind that you are thinking) w/ ads and such, but they have a pretty long way to go. Part of the problem is a cultural barrier, and part the fact that the international market is simply not large enough to be worth them paying attention to. The local mall idea simply doesn't work because no one in their right mind would want to stock non-mainstream anime because they too don't know who will buy them. Incidentally, why shouldn't Elfen Lied cost 140? It costs a shitton to the Japanese as well. Yes obviously local mall wouldn't work. I was just wondering what is legit way to get this awesome stuff. Because none of persons that are not in fulltime job couldn't afford it. No one I know would spent 140 on something you don't know at all. If you think that anime should be hobby only of those who have fulltime job, and not only that, could afford really hundreds of euros on just anime, then I think your point is valid. Hardly, this is just a case of really shitty business leading to stealing as the best way things could turn out for both parties. The best legit ways are through what that guy mentioned, Netflix (and other similar stream services, like Crunchyroll) and buying DVDs. Not all that many options here unless you don't need subs or would import anime merchandise. Netflix is USA only. Crunchyroll seems to have (according to google search and steam friend) alot problems with EU customers. Alot stuff seem to be missing from there too. e: Finland doesn't have any kind of site like this.
That is unfortunate, importing from US or other International sources seems to be your best bet if you insist on using an official method. In my case I'd just tell you to go pirate since those are pretty much just impossible for most students.
Incidentally, you might want to reread the last page since I was trying to edit in more information in posts already made rather than spam too much.
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On January 28 2012 08:48 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 08:44 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 08:40 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 08:37 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 08:32 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 08:20 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 08:05 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 07:55 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 07:48 xrapture wrote:On January 28 2012 06:47 matiK23 wrote:
So where are we watching anime now that Megavideo is no more? Preferably at home on Netflix or from a dvd you bought, instead of pirating, stealing money from the people that produced the content, and giving evidence that SOPA may be worthwhile. Where do you buy anime? I could only find few to buy but couldn't find Elfen lied, Mind game, Bakemonogatari/Nisemonogatari, Yosuga no Sora, REC, Genshiken - just some of my favourite animes I love. There's also limit on what sites people dare to put credit card info.. (contains content related to ethics) + Show Spoiler +I don' t think I took any money from anyones pocket, I'd sure support some ppl for doing things I love like 99% people but for reasonable amount and for reasonable method. There was that thread about piracy of knowledge and such in forms of self-help books or textbooks should be free, I had a good laugh at that. That said, trying to suggest that getting contents that are meant to be distributed for money at no cost is not incurring losses on the provider is silly. The losses might not be actualized, you might simply not want to bother with the product at all if it is priced, etc, the act in itself is still stealing essentially. I don't really see the point in trying to justify that just so that you can feel better. Reasonable amount and reasonable method? What is that, lol. They have an international market with different cultures and shitty logistics to overcome. The reasonable amount to them and to you is obviously going to be different. If anything, as the providers, they should have the say on what is reasonable. What you feel on the matter is frankly completely irrelevant. Bake/Nise getting official DVD would be sad, I'd hate to see English for that. Yosuga and REC both not licensed here probably. Genshiken I don't know, Elfen Lied definitely should have something in English, and nfc what mind game is supposed to be. On January 28 2012 08:00 Emnjay808 wrote:On January 28 2012 07:53 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 07:48 xrapture wrote:
[quote]
Preferably at home on Netflix or from a dvd you bought, instead of pirating, stealing money from the people that produced the content, and giving evidence that SOPA may be worthwhile. Real morals. Shrug, availability of anime by official sources in other regions tends to be poor, suffering though official subs or even worse, dubs, is pretty horrifying. If you are going to take a moral highground, at least offer more viable sources like crunchyroll. I spoilered it because I have no desire to start talking about moral and ethics to someone I don't know irl, is from totally different culture and in internet forum. Please respond to post itself and dont attach to other peoples morals. However leaving ethic, foaming and arrogance like that aside (like you said it's silly to think something because "?" - because copy=stealing) I don't feel a bit bad for pirating anime. But I'm not either gonna say you are wrong, I'd like to just have some objective reasoning and not subjective terms and personal morals. Actually I'm not sure if I've actually pirated any episodes yet.. Is this international market a website you can buy anime with subs or a theme/idea whatever? (Not native english speaker.) By reasonable price I meant that elfen lied shouldn't cost 140€ especially when you don't know what you will get. Reasonable method like steam/iTunes or from local Mall.
My problem and wonder how to get those animes legimately? In my original post I didn't actually imo represent myself as some kind of "FREE MOVIES FOR EVERYONE"-guy.
Would love to see answer to that.
e: Mind Game is a good movie. I recommend it. My point is merely that there is nothing to justify piracy. I don't condone it, nor do I say that you shouldn't do it. It is just nonsensical to try to justify an action that's clearly harmful to the content providers, especially with your sense of "reasonable" price and method. If we are to discuss how things should get done ideally, yeah, a lot of what you consider reasonable would in fact be so. That means nothing in light of how things are actually done though. The content providers are slowly working with other methods of gaining revenue like using online distribution (more streaming than the iTunes/steam kind that you are thinking) w/ ads and such, but they have a pretty long way to go. Part of the problem is a cultural barrier, and part the fact that the international market is simply not large enough to be worth them paying attention to. The local mall idea simply doesn't work because no one in their right mind would want to stock non-mainstream anime because they too don't know who will buy them. Incidentally, why shouldn't Elfen Lied cost 140? It costs a shitton to the Japanese as well. Yes obviously local mall wouldn't work. I was just wondering what is legit way to get this awesome stuff. Because none of persons that are not in fulltime job couldn't afford it. No one I know would spent 140 on something you don't know at all. If you think that anime should be hobby only of those who have fulltime job, and not only that, could afford really hundreds of euros on just anime, then I think your point is valid. Hardly, this is just a case of really shitty business leading to stealing as the best way things could turn out for both parties. The best legit ways are through what that guy mentioned, Netflix (and other similar stream services, like Crunchyroll) and buying DVDs. Not all that many options here unless you don't need subs or would import anime merchandise. Netflix is USA only. Crunchyroll seems to have (according to google search and steam friend) alot problems with EU customers. Alot stuff seem to be missing from there too. e: Finland doesn't have any kind of site like this. That is unfortunate, importing from US or other International sources seems to be your best bet if you insist on using an official method. In my case I'd just tell you to go pirate since those are pretty much just impossible for most students. Incidentally, you might want to reread the last page since I was trying to edit in more information in posts already made rather than spam too much.
+ Show Spoiler +But if you want to get out of this Guardian stage you're going to have to spam more!
Finished Champloo yesterday. That was really awesome.
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On January 28 2012 08:06 xrapture wrote:
I don't understand how so many of you can support theft.
... Really?
Since when is OK to steal if you can't afford something and don't like the alternatives?
"I really want this Rolex watch, but I can't afford it. I don't like the cheaper watches either, I guess I'll steal the Rolex!"
Pirating isn't stealing.
Granted it is similar in that you get something without paying for it, but it's different because the company doesn't physically lose anything.
Easily put:
- If you steal that Rolex, the company can no longer sell it to someone and gain a profit. It is a complete lose.
- If you pirate a movie (or any sort of media), the company is losing a potential sale. They are no worse off if you pirate the movie than if you didn't. The only reason it's considered a loss at all is because had you not pirated the movie the only alternative to getting it would have been buying it, which would have given them money. Companies (by default) assume that everyone that pirates things would have bought what they pirated had they been unable to pirate it, which is completely untrue.
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On January 28 2012 08:06 xrapture wrote:
I don't understand how so many of you can support theft.
... Really?
Since when is OK to steal if you can't afford something and don't like the alternatives?
"I really want this Rolex watch, but I can't afford it. I don't like the cheaper watches either, I guess I'll steal the Rolex!"
I don't mind someone having such high morals such as yourself, but honestly, you are quite naive to be saying this in this day and age. There are hundreds of millions of people who pirate music, movies, etc off the internet, so why are you targeting this specific thread with your (morally correct and justifiable) complaints? Good anime subs are hard to come by without paying absurd amounts of cash that most people can't afford and there are many (especially if you want current, ongoing anime) where you actually have no choice but to pirate because there are only dubs, or illegal means. For these, it becomes "I really want this Rolex watch, but it's only available through illegal, easily accessible, means."
I'll admit I haven't really looked into it so I can't claim how accurate it is, but I read somewhere how illegal piracy of anime actually increased sales overall. The reason being illegal subs, for a long time prior to crunchy, were the only way to access the vast majority of subbed anime. This allowed huge increases in fanbases across the world which otherwise would never have been born or would have stagnated very quickly. I know that's true for me, at least. I've shelled out real cash for my favorite anime-related stuff only because of all the illegal anime I've watched; if not for that, I would never have become an anime fan. Think of all the anime conventions, stores, concerts, etc, whose main, if not only, form of customers are people who watch and love anime only because it's easily, though illegally, obtained.
For a very specific and personal example, do you really think that 151 people from over 30 countries would have gathered together to create a fan photo album in support of Nana Mizuki's Live Castle concert? That would have never happened without piracy. Do you think Nana would be angry at us because we love her thanks to her music being obtained illegally? No, I'm pretty sure her reaction would not be negative. I'm not justifying piracy or stealing at all, but for certain when it comes to anime, it has not been solely a bad thing for the corporations, companies, and artists.
The only reason I don't pay for subs via crunchy is because there are still many, many shows that they do not sub. If Japan ever reaches the level of providing subs to every ongoing anime, I would gladly pay a monthly subscription. Until then, it's far too expensive and impractical (waiting 1 year+ for translations) to try to watch the amount of anime I would want to through only legal means (and also sometimes impossible as not all shows get official translations).
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On January 28 2012 09:00 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 08:06 xrapture wrote:
I don't understand how so many of you can support theft.
... Really?
Since when is OK to steal if you can't afford something and don't like the alternatives?
"I really want this Rolex watch, but I can't afford it. I don't like the cheaper watches either, I guess I'll steal the Rolex!" Pirating isn't stealing. Granted it is similar in that you get something without paying for it, but it's different because the company doesn't physically lose anything. Easily put: - If you steal that Rolex, the company can no longer sell it to someone and gain a profit. It is a complete lose. - If you pirate a movie (or any sort of media), the company is losing a potential sale. They are no worse off if you pirate the movie than if you didn't. The only reason it's considered a loss at all is because had you not pirated the movie the only alternative to getting it would have been buying it, which would have given them money. Companies (by default) assume that everyone that pirates things would have bought what they pirated had they been unable to pirate it, which is completely untrue.
We can argue all day about how people with no propensity to spend pirate, but since they wouldn't have spend anyway it is no actual loss to content provider. The act is still identical. It is still stealing. Why try to justify it?
Sure it makes sense economically, ethically it is still stealing. The loss incurred is not at the level they would suggest. You are still paying nothing to get something, which you shouldn't be able to.
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Canada4481 Posts
On January 28 2012 07:02 Ryndika wrote:Hello, I was just watching last ep of Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu. There is 2 things I'd liek to ask. First of all, I had problems watching last ep because most of the streaming hosts are down. I ended up watching half of it from some random place and other half from other place, quality being shit ofc. So how do people watch anime nowadays? Torrent it? If so is there a site dedicated to this where you also can get older animes? (Like having more than 0-2 seeders). Some animes are just near impossible to watch. I watched petite cossette from megavideo, and I don't know anymore how to watch it. Other question is that, was the season 1 ending spoiler> + Show Spoiler +that open? I'm not sure about the order I watched but in my last episode protagonist picked up a heater for clubroom. Was the real last episode that snow white thingy? Second season came 3 years later right? Isn't this a bit too open ending in either case for anime that isn't getting sequel right in next year? Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 06:58 Skilledblob wrote:On January 28 2012 06:47 matiK23 wrote:
So where are we watching anime now that Megavideo is no more? well download from the subgroups page or find yourself one of the countless sites with streams What subgroups do you suggest?
The last episode of the TV broadcast order (2006 version) ends with Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu 6 aka + Show Spoiler +. That is actually just the ending to the first (out of 11) novel.
The last episode that you watched was called "Some Day in the Rain" and I believe is an anime original that happens chronologically after the events of the first season, but before the movie "The Disappearance". I didn't really feel any of it was that open ended either, the conclusion of the first novel set the stage for what is suppose to happen for any future episodes, and the rest are mostly slice of life type episodes and just getting to know the rest of the club members better.
The new episodes in the 2009 version all happen chronologically within the events of the first, and was all basically a setup for the movie. Which I might add was amazing (because that related novel was also amazing), and to me, made up for the shit that occurred for a good half of the second season. As of now, the first four novels, 2/3 of the fifth, and 2/5 of the sixth novels have all been animated. Chronologically, the farthest would be the movie, "The Disappearance." With the exception of "Some Day in the Rain", and somewhat "Endless Eight" in the second season, everything has been following the novels extremely closely. Everything that's been said has been taken straight out of the novels, so that may be why you feel it's a bit open ended. It was the end of a novel, but not really the end of the entire series.
Not sure if any of my ramble made sense, and I think I went off on a tangent too. As for where to watch anime, I primarily use TokyoTosho to find out when releases are, and then either download the episode via torrent, or sometimes IRC. If you want older series, BakaBT is a great site for old series, all their torrents are decently seeded. However, you will need an account, and maintain a 0.5 UL/DL ratio in order to keep using their torrents. I don't like it simply because my connection cannot upload as fast as I download, and therefore would not be able to maintain a 0.5 ratio. That and once my torrents are finished, my connection stops all seeding by itself, and I'm not sure exactly how to fix it so I don't bother.
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On January 28 2012 08:06 xrapture wrote:
I don't understand how so many of you can support theft.
... Really?
Since when is OK to steal if you can't afford something and don't like the alternatives?
"I really want this Rolex watch, but I can't afford it. I don't like the cheaper watches either, I guess I'll steal the Rolex!"
I don't support piracy but there's a fundamental difference between piracy and theft in regards to its effect on supply that makes it completely different from any conventional interpretation of theft.
While its obviously illegal, I don't think piracy would be persecuted any more than j-walking and casual speeding.
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I think animenewsnetwork will sometimes stream current airing stuff, and if you check youtube anime channels they stream some there too I believe. I'll have to find the source again but some anime companies have stated that downloading of current airing shows is actually beneficial to sales since if you love the show you will most likely buy it. So generally they will leave downloading of current seasons alone.
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I only DL shows that I can't buy. Most shit doesn't get sent over this way because it isn't going to sell.
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+ Show Spoiler [TWGOK 175] + HAQUAAAAAAAAA She returns with perfect timing! I wonder how they'll combat vintage in such a direct confrontation though; they're clearly a very powerful/resourceful organization. I think the goddesses (aka Keima's harem) need to gather together.
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Canada4481 Posts
edit: whoops wrong button
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On January 28 2012 08:59 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 08:48 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 08:44 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 08:40 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 08:37 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 08:32 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 08:20 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 08:05 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 07:55 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 07:48 xrapture wrote:
[quote]
Preferably at home on Netflix or from a dvd you bought, instead of pirating, stealing money from the people that produced the content, and giving evidence that SOPA may be worthwhile. Where do you buy anime? I could only find few to buy but couldn't find Elfen lied, Mind game, Bakemonogatari/Nisemonogatari, Yosuga no Sora, REC, Genshiken - just some of my favourite animes I love. There's also limit on what sites people dare to put credit card info.. (contains content related to ethics) + Show Spoiler +I don' t think I took any money from anyones pocket, I'd sure support some ppl for doing things I love like 99% people but for reasonable amount and for reasonable method. There was that thread about piracy of knowledge and such in forms of self-help books or textbooks should be free, I had a good laugh at that. That said, trying to suggest that getting contents that are meant to be distributed for money at no cost is not incurring losses on the provider is silly. The losses might not be actualized, you might simply not want to bother with the product at all if it is priced, etc, the act in itself is still stealing essentially. I don't really see the point in trying to justify that just so that you can feel better. Reasonable amount and reasonable method? What is that, lol. They have an international market with different cultures and shitty logistics to overcome. The reasonable amount to them and to you is obviously going to be different. If anything, as the providers, they should have the say on what is reasonable. What you feel on the matter is frankly completely irrelevant. Bake/Nise getting official DVD would be sad, I'd hate to see English for that. Yosuga and REC both not licensed here probably. Genshiken I don't know, Elfen Lied definitely should have something in English, and nfc what mind game is supposed to be. On January 28 2012 08:00 Emnjay808 wrote:On January 28 2012 07:53 Ecael wrote:
[quote]
Real morals.
Shrug, availability of anime by official sources in other regions tends to be poor, suffering though official subs or even worse, dubs, is pretty horrifying. If you are going to take a moral highground, at least offer more viable sources like crunchyroll. I spoilered it because I have no desire to start talking about moral and ethics to someone I don't know irl, is from totally different culture and in internet forum. Please respond to post itself and dont attach to other peoples morals. However leaving ethic, foaming and arrogance like that aside (like you said it's silly to think something because "?" - because copy=stealing) I don't feel a bit bad for pirating anime. But I'm not either gonna say you are wrong, I'd like to just have some objective reasoning and not subjective terms and personal morals. Actually I'm not sure if I've actually pirated any episodes yet.. Is this international market a website you can buy anime with subs or a theme/idea whatever? (Not native english speaker.) By reasonable price I meant that elfen lied shouldn't cost 140€ especially when you don't know what you will get. Reasonable method like steam/iTunes or from local Mall.
My problem and wonder how to get those animes legimately? In my original post I didn't actually imo represent myself as some kind of "FREE MOVIES FOR EVERYONE"-guy.
Would love to see answer to that.
e: Mind Game is a good movie. I recommend it. My point is merely that there is nothing to justify piracy. I don't condone it, nor do I say that you shouldn't do it. It is just nonsensical to try to justify an action that's clearly harmful to the content providers, especially with your sense of "reasonable" price and method. If we are to discuss how things should get done ideally, yeah, a lot of what you consider reasonable would in fact be so. That means nothing in light of how things are actually done though. The content providers are slowly working with other methods of gaining revenue like using online distribution (more streaming than the iTunes/steam kind that you are thinking) w/ ads and such, but they have a pretty long way to go. Part of the problem is a cultural barrier, and part the fact that the international market is simply not large enough to be worth them paying attention to. The local mall idea simply doesn't work because no one in their right mind would want to stock non-mainstream anime because they too don't know who will buy them. Incidentally, why shouldn't Elfen Lied cost 140? It costs a shitton to the Japanese as well. Yes obviously local mall wouldn't work. I was just wondering what is legit way to get this awesome stuff. Because none of persons that are not in fulltime job couldn't afford it. No one I know would spent 140 on something you don't know at all. If you think that anime should be hobby only of those who have fulltime job, and not only that, could afford really hundreds of euros on just anime, then I think your point is valid. Hardly, this is just a case of really shitty business leading to stealing as the best way things could turn out for both parties. The best legit ways are through what that guy mentioned, Netflix (and other similar stream services, like Crunchyroll) and buying DVDs. Not all that many options here unless you don't need subs or would import anime merchandise. Netflix is USA only. Crunchyroll seems to have (according to google search and steam friend) alot problems with EU customers. Alot stuff seem to be missing from there too. e: Finland doesn't have any kind of site like this. That is unfortunate, importing from US or other International sources seems to be your best bet if you insist on using an official method. In my case I'd just tell you to go pirate since those are pretty much just impossible for most students. Incidentally, you might want to reread the last page since I was trying to edit in more information in posts already made rather than spam too much. + Show Spoiler +But if you want to get out of this Guardian stage you're going to have to spam more! Finished Champloo yesterday. That was really awesome.
I am obligated to link some music cause Nujabes is god
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKW4EA3wluI
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TWGOK 175
+ Show Spoiler +Just when all seems to go down hill, Haqua saves the day!
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On January 28 2012 09:08 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 09:00 killa_robot wrote:On January 28 2012 08:06 xrapture wrote:
I don't understand how so many of you can support theft.
... Really?
Since when is OK to steal if you can't afford something and don't like the alternatives?
"I really want this Rolex watch, but I can't afford it. I don't like the cheaper watches either, I guess I'll steal the Rolex!" Pirating isn't stealing. Granted it is similar in that you get something without paying for it, but it's different because the company doesn't physically lose anything. Easily put: - If you steal that Rolex, the company can no longer sell it to someone and gain a profit. It is a complete lose. - If you pirate a movie (or any sort of media), the company is losing a potential sale. They are no worse off if you pirate the movie than if you didn't. The only reason it's considered a loss at all is because had you not pirated the movie the only alternative to getting it would have been buying it, which would have given them money. Companies (by default) assume that everyone that pirates things would have bought what they pirated had they been unable to pirate it, which is completely untrue. We can argue all day about how people with no propensity to spend pirate, but since they wouldn't have spend anyway it is no actual loss to content provider. The act is still identical. It is still stealing. Why try to justify it? Sure it makes sense economically, ethically it is still stealing. The loss incurred is not at the level they would suggest. You are still paying nothing to get something, which you shouldn't be able to.
When did I try to justify it?
You also missed part of my point, which is that a company doesn't physically lose anything, even if you pirate the company can still sell just as much because you didn't physically steal anything.
Bringing ethics into it is pretty weird. Is me watching a movie at my friends house any different from me pirating one? The alternative is the same either way - I would have had to buy it to see it otherwise. Just because its my friend that owns the movie doesn't mean I'm not getting the same experience (watching it) that I would have gotten had I pirated it or if I had bought it. So is that stealing? What if I borrowed the movie from the friend, then gave it back? What if I borrowed it and we both forgot about it and I never gave it back? The end result is always the same, I watched the movie without paying for it, the execution is the only difference.
I'm not advocating pirating, I'm saying the definition as it stands now is wrong and needs to properly adjusted.
-------
That was pretty long so I'll say something a bit more on topic lol.
I'm liking the main characters of Nichijou a bit more now. It seems later into the series they slow down with the retarded faces and a bunch of the side characters get more screen time.
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stop arguing with that troll, everybody knows piracy is aiding sales, helps marketing things people enjoy. It's not a loss for anyone, piracy is the only reason why the only western anime viewers aren't very few super otakus who have special satellites and recording equipment like in the 80s.
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On January 28 2012 09:29 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 09:08 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 09:00 killa_robot wrote:On January 28 2012 08:06 xrapture wrote:
I don't understand how so many of you can support theft.
... Really?
Since when is OK to steal if you can't afford something and don't like the alternatives?
"I really want this Rolex watch, but I can't afford it. I don't like the cheaper watches either, I guess I'll steal the Rolex!" Pirating isn't stealing. Granted it is similar in that you get something without paying for it, but it's different because the company doesn't physically lose anything. Easily put: - If you steal that Rolex, the company can no longer sell it to someone and gain a profit. It is a complete lose. - If you pirate a movie (or any sort of media), the company is losing a potential sale. They are no worse off if you pirate the movie than if you didn't. The only reason it's considered a loss at all is because had you not pirated the movie the only alternative to getting it would have been buying it, which would have given them money. Companies (by default) assume that everyone that pirates things would have bought what they pirated had they been unable to pirate it, which is completely untrue. We can argue all day about how people with no propensity to spend pirate, but since they wouldn't have spend anyway it is no actual loss to content provider. The act is still identical. It is still stealing. Why try to justify it? Sure it makes sense economically, ethically it is still stealing. The loss incurred is not at the level they would suggest. You are still paying nothing to get something, which you shouldn't be able to. When did I try to justify it? You also missed part of my point, which is that a company doesn't physically lose anything, even if you pirate the company can still sell just as much because you didn't physically steal anything. Bringing ethics into it is pretty weird. Is me watching a movie at my friends house any different from me pirating one? The alternative is the same either way - I would have had to buy it to see it otherwise. Just because my friend owns the movie doesn't mean I'm not getting the same experience (watching it) that I would have gotten had I pirated it or if I had bought it. So is that stealing? What if I borrowed the movie from the friend, then gave it back? What if I borrowed it and we both forgot about it and I never gave it back? The end result is always the same, I watched the movie without paying for it, the execution is the only difference. I'm not advocating pirating, I'm saying the definition as it stands now is wrong and needs to properly adjusted.
The definition that you are bringing up is economical. You are saying that the way people are using piracy to directly equate losses is wrong, and I agree with that. Calculating the damages and benefits of piracy is a lot more complicated than the way lawsuits over these would suggest. I am saying that the act in itself is wrong.
The company counts you pirating as you wanting to buy it at the MSRP, then compounds the damages by how you can further distribute these copies to others. Yes, that is a silly way of doing it. No, that has nothing to do with what I am trying to say.
Buying a product also gives you a right to do with it in your private setting. Sharing it with your friend, for example, certainly works with those rights. But you can't have it played at the Times Square for everyone there. While logically this is similar to pirating, it really works out to be a different case. That you don't actually own the product means that there are still incentives for you to get the product somehow. If you have your friend's copy, he might want to watch it at the same time you do, but in his own room and have no one else around. There are always incentives for there to be two copies between you two rather than one. In the case of piracy, you just get the second copy without paying any of the efforts.
I am not condemning piracy, I am just confused as to why people are trying to make it sound better than what it is.
On January 28 2012 09:35 Shauni wrote:
stop arguing with that troll, everybody knows piracy is aiding sales, helps marketing things people enjoy. It's not a loss for anyone, piracy is the only reason why the only western anime viewers aren't very few super otakus who have special satellites and recording equipment like in the 80s.
I hate this the most. Yes, it is the method that works the best currently. No, it isn't good, nor is it smart. It is just that the market isn't big enough for people to give a fuck to cultivate properly.
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On January 28 2012 09:29 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 09:08 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 09:00 killa_robot wrote:On January 28 2012 08:06 xrapture wrote:
I don't understand how so many of you can support theft.
... Really?
Since when is OK to steal if you can't afford something and don't like the alternatives?
"I really want this Rolex watch, but I can't afford it. I don't like the cheaper watches either, I guess I'll steal the Rolex!" Pirating isn't stealing. Granted it is similar in that you get something without paying for it, but it's different because the company doesn't physically lose anything. Easily put: - If you steal that Rolex, the company can no longer sell it to someone and gain a profit. It is a complete lose. - If you pirate a movie (or any sort of media), the company is losing a potential sale. They are no worse off if you pirate the movie than if you didn't. The only reason it's considered a loss at all is because had you not pirated the movie the only alternative to getting it would have been buying it, which would have given them money. Companies (by default) assume that everyone that pirates things would have bought what they pirated had they been unable to pirate it, which is completely untrue. We can argue all day about how people with no propensity to spend pirate, but since they wouldn't have spend anyway it is no actual loss to content provider. The act is still identical. It is still stealing. Why try to justify it? Sure it makes sense economically, ethically it is still stealing. The loss incurred is not at the level they would suggest. You are still paying nothing to get something, which you shouldn't be able to. When did I try to justify it? You also missed part of my point, which is that a company doesn't physically lose anything, even if you pirate the company can still sell just as much because you didn't physically steal anything. Bringing ethics into it is pretty weird. Is me watching a movie at my friends house any different from me pirating one? The alternative is the same either way - I would have had to buy it to see it otherwise. Just because its my friend that owns the movie doesn't mean I'm not getting the same experience (watching it) that I would have gotten had I pirated it or if I had bought it. So is that stealing? What if I borrowed the movie from the friend, then gave it back? What if I borrowed it and we both forgot about it and I never gave it back? The end result is always the same, I watched the movie without paying for it, the execution is the only difference. I'm not advocating pirating, I'm saying the definition as it stands now is wrong and needs to properly adjusted. ------- That was pretty long so I'll say something a bit more on topic lol. I'm liking the main characters of Nichijou a bit more now. It seems later into the series they slow down with the retarded faces and a bunch of the side characters get more screen time.
So if I go torrent the entire text of The Game of Thrones series it's a grey line because George R R Martin didn't physically lose anything?
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On January 28 2012 08:48 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 08:44 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 08:40 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 08:37 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 08:32 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 08:20 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 08:05 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 07:55 Ryndika wrote:On January 28 2012 07:48 xrapture wrote:On January 28 2012 06:47 matiK23 wrote:
So where are we watching anime now that Megavideo is no more? Preferably at home on Netflix or from a dvd you bought, instead of pirating, stealing money from the people that produced the content, and giving evidence that SOPA may be worthwhile. Where do you buy anime? I could only find few to buy but couldn't find Elfen lied, Mind game, Bakemonogatari/Nisemonogatari, Yosuga no Sora, REC, Genshiken - just some of my favourite animes I love. There's also limit on what sites people dare to put credit card info.. (contains content related to ethics) + Show Spoiler +I don' t think I took any money from anyones pocket, I'd sure support some ppl for doing things I love like 99% people but for reasonable amount and for reasonable method. There was that thread about piracy of knowledge and such in forms of self-help books or textbooks should be free, I had a good laugh at that. That said, trying to suggest that getting contents that are meant to be distributed for money at no cost is not incurring losses on the provider is silly. The losses might not be actualized, you might simply not want to bother with the product at all if it is priced, etc, the act in itself is still stealing essentially. I don't really see the point in trying to justify that just so that you can feel better. Reasonable amount and reasonable method? What is that, lol. They have an international market with different cultures and shitty logistics to overcome. The reasonable amount to them and to you is obviously going to be different. If anything, as the providers, they should have the say on what is reasonable. What you feel on the matter is frankly completely irrelevant. Bake/Nise getting official DVD would be sad, I'd hate to see English for that. Yosuga and REC both not licensed here probably. Genshiken I don't know, Elfen Lied definitely should have something in English, and nfc what mind game is supposed to be. On January 28 2012 08:00 Emnjay808 wrote:On January 28 2012 07:53 Ecael wrote:On January 28 2012 07:48 xrapture wrote:
[quote]
Preferably at home on Netflix or from a dvd you bought, instead of pirating, stealing money from the people that produced the content, and giving evidence that SOPA may be worthwhile. Real morals. Shrug, availability of anime by official sources in other regions tends to be poor, suffering though official subs or even worse, dubs, is pretty horrifying. If you are going to take a moral highground, at least offer more viable sources like crunchyroll. I spoilered it because I have no desire to start talking about moral and ethics to someone I don't know irl, is from totally different culture and in internet forum. Please respond to post itself and dont attach to other peoples morals. However leaving ethic, foaming and arrogance like that aside (like you said it's silly to think something because "?" - because copy=stealing) I don't feel a bit bad for pirating anime. But I'm not either gonna say you are wrong, I'd like to just have some objective reasoning and not subjective terms and personal morals. Actually I'm not sure if I've actually pirated any episodes yet.. Is this international market a website you can buy anime with subs or a theme/idea whatever? (Not native english speaker.) By reasonable price I meant that elfen lied shouldn't cost 140€ especially when you don't know what you will get. Reasonable method like steam/iTunes or from local Mall.
My problem and wonder how to get those animes legimately? In my original post I didn't actually imo represent myself as some kind of "FREE MOVIES FOR EVERYONE"-guy.
Would love to see answer to that.
e: Mind Game is a good movie. I recommend it. My point is merely that there is nothing to justify piracy. I don't condone it, nor do I say that you shouldn't do it. It is just nonsensical to try to justify an action that's clearly harmful to the content providers, especially with your sense of "reasonable" price and method. If we are to discuss how things should get done ideally, yeah, a lot of what you consider reasonable would in fact be so. That means nothing in light of how things are actually done though. The content providers are slowly working with other methods of gaining revenue like using online distribution (more streaming than the iTunes/steam kind that you are thinking) w/ ads and such, but they have a pretty long way to go. Part of the problem is a cultural barrier, and part the fact that the international market is simply not large enough to be worth them paying attention to. The local mall idea simply doesn't work because no one in their right mind would want to stock non-mainstream anime because they too don't know who will buy them. Incidentally, why shouldn't Elfen Lied cost 140? It costs a shitton to the Japanese as well. Yes obviously local mall wouldn't work. I was just wondering what is legit way to get this awesome stuff. Because none of persons that are not in fulltime job couldn't afford it. No one I know would spent 140 on something you don't know at all. If you think that anime should be hobby only of those who have fulltime job, and not only that, could afford really hundreds of euros on just anime, then I think your point is valid. Hardly, this is just a case of really shitty business leading to stealing as the best way things could turn out for both parties. The best legit ways are through what that guy mentioned, Netflix (and other similar stream services, like Crunchyroll) and buying DVDs. Not all that many options here unless you don't need subs or would import anime merchandise. Netflix is USA only. Crunchyroll seems to have (according to google search and steam friend) alot problems with EU customers. Alot stuff seem to be missing from there too. e: Finland doesn't have any kind of site like this. That is unfortunate, importing from US or other International sources seems to be your best bet if you insist on using an official method. In my case I'd just tell you to go pirate since those are pretty much just impossible for most students. Incidentally, you might want to reread the last page since I was trying to edit in more information in posts already made rather than spam too much.
I can confirm CrunchyRoll works in the UK. Same as the US Services I'd guess?
Just to throw in my $0.02, I really don't see why people would not support the makers of entertainment they consume. Sure, your consumption of anime through non-approved means hasn't prevented someone else from consuming it. But if you use any other non-rivalrous good or service for free when you are supposed to pay for it, that's still theft.
Sure, piracy can be beneficial in some ways when the core problem is one of distribution (marketing or service provision). That's where those arguements about how "it helps sales" comes from. People can't buy/watch their chosen entertainment, they pirate it, and then buy/watch it later. Alternatively, maybe you want to see whether a series is good or not before paying that expensive MRSP for a DVD box set (think of it like a demo). Fine. But still, you haven't helped the guys who actually made your entertainment.
Maybe the DVD/Bluray isn't out yet. Fine, wait for it to come out. Maybe you don't have a legal stream. IP Spoof a American IP, watch CrunchyRoll and watch their ads. Maybe you can't actually buy the DVD (or you don't want a Japanese only DVD/Bluray). Fine, buy merchandise instead. Or if you ever visit a Con/Store which does sells this stuff, make some purchases. Even if you've watched Gundam SEED a million times or something. Still do it.
But if you say all of the above and don't follow up with actual purchases, you're just using this as an excuse to get free stuff.
And whatever you say, unless you put your money where you mouth is, that still makes you a thief.
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Have any TLers tried out PlanetEs?
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EPT
