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I'm obviously more liberal than he is with high scores but I give low scores quite naturally. If I bothered to rate all the shit I dropped they'd all be like 1-3 also.
Well, at least yours is ordered in a way that makes more sense to me, with a few exceptions.
How is Bebop so low on your list? You gave one of the highest rated, most award winning anime of all time a 5? I mean, it can't live up to the hype and what not, but it's still objectively amazingly animated, with a great soundtrack, both sets of VAs do a good job, and the action sequences are well done. What does it lack that made you rate it so low?
I don't get what's your problem. People have opinions about what shows they dislike/like. Just because something is "objectively" amazing doesn't mean they have to explain themselves when they rate it as a bad show.
it wouldn't be that way if people watched intellectually imo
I don't like that term. Saying you consider yourself "intellectual" sounds more than a bit pretentious to me.
Like I said in my above post, the term I like is "objectively". I rate shows on both an objective and subjective level. Objectively, G Gundam is only an OK show, 5-6/10. The animation and audio are good, but the plot goes from meandering to non-existent, and is usually just an excuse to get to new fight scenes.
Subjectively, it's fun as hell, hot-blooded, and overall around an 8/10 to me.
There's a difference, I guess, but when recommending stuff to other people, you have to look more at what shows are objectively better, since people will be more likely to watch them.
I'm obviously more liberal than he is with high scores but I give low scores quite naturally. If I bothered to rate all the shit I dropped they'd all be like 1-3 also.
Well, at least yours is ordered in a way that makes more sense to me, with a few exceptions.
How is Bebop so low on your list? You gave one of the highest rated, most award winning anime of all time a 5? I mean, it can't live up to the hype and what not, but it's still objectively amazingly animated, with a great soundtrack, both sets of VAs do a good job, and the action sequences are well done. What does it lack that made you rate it so low?
I don't get what's your problem. People have opinions about what shows they dislike/like. Just because something is "objectively" amazing doesn't mean they have to explain themselves when they rate it as a bad show.
it wouldn't be that way if people watched intellectually imo
I don't like that term. Saying you consider yourself "intellectual" sounds more than a bit pretentious to me.
Like I said in my above post, the term I like is "objectively". I rate shows on both an objective and subjective level. Objectively, G Gundam is only an OK show, 5-6/10. The animation and audio are good, but the plot goes from meandering to non-existent, and is usually just an excuse to get to new fight scenes.
Subjectively, it's fun as hell, hot-blooded, and overall around an 8/10 to me.
There's a difference, I guess, but when recommending stuff to other people, you have to look more at what shows are objectively better, since people will be more likely to watch them.
How can you objectively say that the animation and audio are good? I can listen to the same audio and say it's garbage, or look at the animation and say that it's not remotely close to animation I've seen in other shows.
How can you "objectively" evaluate a plot's worth? Just because a plot is "meandering" or "non-existent" doesn't mean that the plot is bad. You can say that it wasn't good, and many people will say it's bad, but there are bound to people who like that style of storytelling.
Everything you just said has a subjective quality to it. There's no way you can objectively evaluate whether or not sounds or visuals are good. Of course there are always exceptions and of course there will be majorities of people thinking one way or that, but that doesn't really matter at this point.
At the end of the day, any rating of anime is always subjective.
I'm obviously more liberal than he is with high scores but I give low scores quite naturally. If I bothered to rate all the shit I dropped they'd all be like 1-3 also.
Well, at least yours is ordered in a way that makes more sense to me, with a few exceptions.
How is Bebop so low on your list? You gave one of the highest rated, most award winning anime of all time a 5? I mean, it can't live up to the hype and what not, but it's still objectively amazingly animated, with a great soundtrack, both sets of VAs do a good job, and the action sequences are well done. What does it lack that made you rate it so low?
I don't get what's your problem. People have opinions about what shows they dislike/like. Just because something is "objectively" amazing doesn't mean they have to explain themselves when they rate it as a bad show.
I'm being harsh, I know, but I'm not really the type to hold my thoughts back.
I'm just saying. There's a reason the show is almost universally loved and is one of the highest rated animes of all time. And it's not like it hasn't aged well, either. I'm genuinely curious as to what he didn't like about it.
It's like being a fan of classical music but hating Bach or Mozart. You'd respect them for their compositions and still rate them highly, recognizing their skill and vision, but you just wouldn't listen to them.
For example, I really dislike the original Ghost in the Shell movie. I fall asleep every time I see it. I just think it's a weak anime film, and that it sorely lacks in comparison to SaC. However, I'd never rate it under an 8 or anything like that, because it is objectively a visionary film that excels in many fields (visual, audio, direction).
I guess I'm used to my reviews being more objective based than subjective.
comparing any anime to "classics" is kind of ridiculous. most popular anime is like the most popular pop song in the day. its not even comparable to music because it's possible for a single genius to write music that's pretty damn amazing. Anime requires too much manpower and it all depends on a director and most "good" directors are crack pot directors that make one good anime out of a fluke and pretend they can do it again.
Also it's also quite different from bashing mozart/bach because mozart and bach wrote a lot of different music. Same thing with beethoven. I know people who love the 9th symphony and some people who don't think the 9th symphony is so great but still love beethoven. even the "great masterpieces" are subject to taste :p
You're missing the point though. I'm just saying that I prefer reviews to be objective, on the mechanical goodness of the show. Something like FLCL would still be highly rated from an objective standpoint, because the art is mindbogglingly good, the OST is catchy and well utilized, and the characters are all well thought out and have their own quirks and hidden depths.
A subjective view would be "FLCL is stupid because the plot was hard to follow and the humor didn't make sense to me".
On December 24 2011 01:02 Requizen wrote: Hm, I just wound up re-reading the entire Hellsing manga (one of my perennial favorites that I actually own), and want to watch the anime, which I still haven't seen either of. Should I just stick to the OVAs, or is the original anime worth a look?
Original anime goes off on a bizarre tangent because the anime was only like 4 vols in at that time. Not really worth it.
Thanks, I'll probably just watch Ultimate.
Also, this thread is moving way too fast today. Stop arguing, people :\
On December 24 2011 01:19 Southlight wrote: By the way Milkis, Super Robot Wars: the Inspectors is pretty silly guilty pleasure for hot-blooded mecha action (I notice you only watched Divine Wars, which was comparably meh).
On December 24 2011 01:24 EchOne wrote: I dropped Divine Wars in 1 episode despite loving SRW. Finished the Inspectors and would gladly see it again. WAGA ZANKANTOU NI TATENU MONO NASHI
I'm obviously more liberal than he is with high scores but I give low scores quite naturally. If I bothered to rate all the shit I dropped they'd all be like 1-3 also.
Well, at least yours is ordered in a way that makes more sense to me, with a few exceptions.
How is Bebop so low on your list? You gave one of the highest rated, most award winning anime of all time a 5? I mean, it can't live up to the hype and what not, but it's still objectively amazingly animated, with a great soundtrack, both sets of VAs do a good job, and the action sequences are well done. What does it lack that made you rate it so low?
I don't get what's your problem. People have opinions about what shows they dislike/like. Just because something is "objectively" amazing doesn't mean they have to explain themselves when they rate it as a bad show.
I'm being harsh, I know, but I'm not really the type to hold my thoughts back.
I'm just saying. There's a reason the show is almost universally loved and is one of the highest rated animes of all time. And it's not like it hasn't aged well, either. I'm genuinely curious as to what he didn't like about it.
It's like being a fan of classical music but hating Bach or Mozart. You'd respect them for their compositions and still rate them highly, recognizing their skill and vision, but you just wouldn't listen to them.
For example, I really dislike the original Ghost in the Shell movie. I fall asleep every time I see it. I just think it's a weak anime film, and that it sorely lacks in comparison to SaC. However, I'd never rate it under an 8 or anything like that, because it is objectively a visionary film that excels in many fields (visual, audio, direction).
I guess I'm used to my reviews being more objective based than subjective.
comparing any anime to "classics" is kind of ridiculous. most popular anime is like the most popular pop song in the day. its not even comparable to music because it's possible for a single genius to write music that's pretty damn amazing. Anime requires too much manpower and it all depends on a director and most "good" directors are crack pot directors that make one good anime out of a fluke and pretend they can do it again.
Also it's also quite different from bashing mozart/bach because mozart and bach wrote a lot of different music. Same thing with beethoven. I know people who love the 9th symphony and some people who don't think the 9th symphony is so great but still love beethoven. even the "great masterpieces" are subject to taste :p
You're missing the point though. I'm just saying that I prefer reviews to be objective, on the mechanical goodness of the show. Something like FLCL would still be highly rated from an objective standpoint, because the art is mindbogglingly good, the OST is catchy and well utilized, and the characters are all well thought out and have their own quirks and hidden depths.
A subjective view would be "FLCL is stupid because the plot was hard to follow and the humor didn't make sense to me".
There are a bunch of people who think that objectively, the characters are garbage. Art is always subjective too, and people can easily be turned off by how certain things are drawn.
And of course, even though I LOVE The Pillows, how you view their music is also subjective.
I love FLCL, but rating the show based on your premises is still subjective.
On December 24 2011 01:24 EchOne wrote: I dropped Divine Wars in 1 episode despite loving SRW. Finished the Inspectors and would gladly see it again. WAGA ZANKANTOU NI TATENU MONO NASHI
I'm obviously more liberal than he is with high scores but I give low scores quite naturally. If I bothered to rate all the shit I dropped they'd all be like 1-3 also.
Well, at least yours is ordered in a way that makes more sense to me, with a few exceptions.
How is Bebop so low on your list? You gave one of the highest rated, most award winning anime of all time a 5? I mean, it can't live up to the hype and what not, but it's still objectively amazingly animated, with a great soundtrack, both sets of VAs do a good job, and the action sequences are well done. What does it lack that made you rate it so low?
I don't get what's your problem. People have opinions about what shows they dislike/like. Just because something is "objectively" amazing doesn't mean they have to explain themselves when they rate it as a bad show.
I'm being harsh, I know, but I'm not really the type to hold my thoughts back.
I'm just saying. There's a reason the show is almost universally loved and is one of the highest rated animes of all time. And it's not like it hasn't aged well, either. I'm genuinely curious as to what he didn't like about it.
It's like being a fan of classical music but hating Bach or Mozart. You'd respect them for their compositions and still rate them highly, recognizing their skill and vision, but you just wouldn't listen to them.
For example, I really dislike the original Ghost in the Shell movie. I fall asleep every time I see it. I just think it's a weak anime film, and that it sorely lacks in comparison to SaC. However, I'd never rate it under an 8 or anything like that, because it is objectively a visionary film that excels in many fields (visual, audio, direction).
I guess I'm used to my reviews being more objective based than subjective.
comparing any anime to "classics" is kind of ridiculous. most popular anime is like the most popular pop song in the day. its not even comparable to music because it's possible for a single genius to write music that's pretty damn amazing. Anime requires too much manpower and it all depends on a director and most "good" directors are crack pot directors that make one good anime out of a fluke and pretend they can do it again.
Also it's also quite different from bashing mozart/bach because mozart and bach wrote a lot of different music. Same thing with beethoven. I know people who love the 9th symphony and some people who don't think the 9th symphony is so great but still love beethoven. even the "great masterpieces" are subject to taste :p
You're missing the point though. I'm just saying that I prefer reviews to be objective, on the mechanical goodness of the show. Something like FLCL would still be highly rated from an objective standpoint, because the art is mindbogglingly good, the OST is catchy and well utilized, and the characters are all well thought out and have their own quirks and hidden depths.
A subjective view would be "FLCL is stupid because the plot was hard to follow and the humor didn't make sense to me".
You can say the same thing about any classical piece.
Just because something should be "highly rated" doesn't mean that it will be. People have different tastes and weight things heavily. For example I will always like a series with a well developed world/setting which is something FLCL completely lacked (but I still liked FLCL enough so yeah).
I'm obviously more liberal than he is with high scores but I give low scores quite naturally. If I bothered to rate all the shit I dropped they'd all be like 1-3 also.
Well, at least yours is ordered in a way that makes more sense to me, with a few exceptions.
How is Bebop so low on your list? You gave one of the highest rated, most award winning anime of all time a 5? I mean, it can't live up to the hype and what not, but it's still objectively amazingly animated, with a great soundtrack, both sets of VAs do a good job, and the action sequences are well done. What does it lack that made you rate it so low?
I don't get what's your problem. People have opinions about what shows they dislike/like. Just because something is "objectively" amazing doesn't mean they have to explain themselves when they rate it as a bad show.
it wouldn't be that way if people watched intellectually imo
I don't like that term. Saying you consider yourself "intellectual" sounds more than a bit pretentious to me.
Like I said in my above post, the term I like is "objectively". I rate shows on both an objective and subjective level. Objectively, G Gundam is only an OK show, 5-6/10. The animation and audio are good, but the plot goes from meandering to non-existent, and is usually just an excuse to get to new fight scenes.
Subjectively, it's fun as hell, hot-blooded, and overall around an 8/10 to me.
There's a difference, I guess, but when recommending stuff to other people, you have to look more at what shows are objectively better, since people will be more likely to watch them.
How can you objectively say that the animation and audio are good? I can listen to the same audio and say it's garbage, or look at the animation and say that it's not remotely close to animation I've seen in other shows.
How can you "objectively" evaluate a plot's worth? Just because a plot is "meandering" or "non-existent" doesn't mean that the plot is bad. You can say that it wasn't good, and many people will say it's bad, but there are bound to people who like that style of storytelling.
Everything you just said has a subjective quality to it. There's no way you can objectively evaluate whether or not sounds or visuals are good. Of course there are always exceptions and of course there will be majorities of people thinking one way or that, but that doesn't really matter at this point.
At the end of the day, any rating of anime is always subjective.
Art can be objectively good based on things like detail, clarity, and ease of understanding. Good art is clear and you can easily differentiate between different characters, particular items, and settings. Bad art is the "every person looks the same", stock backgrounds, and stock set pieces. FLCL, again, is objectively amazing art because every character and place looks unique, and everything is super detailed.
Audio is subjective as to what you like and don't like, but objective in things like, again, clarity, mood setting, and usage. Good audio sets a mood, creates an atmosphere, and accentuates the tone of the scene. A driving beat kicking in during an important fight scene, or all audio cutting out during a tense moment, or even sound effects that aren't stock "ka-boom"s are good.
Objective plot is tricky, but people have been studying it for centuries. Does it meander too long? Does it seamlessly flow from introduction - build up - action - climax - resolution? Are there things that happen that don't make sense in the plot (plot holes), and do things that happen early on tie in and relate to the ending? These are the types of things that make a good plot.
Subjectively, you can like/dislike the story, but the plot structure can usually, if not always, viewed objectively.
I'm obviously more liberal than he is with high scores but I give low scores quite naturally. If I bothered to rate all the shit I dropped they'd all be like 1-3 also.
Finally someone whose seen the Read or Die OVA and liked it, I feel a little less lonely now,
also the the intellectual, objective, subjective deja vu is nauseating, Theres already people here who think that everything they discuss is objectivity personified, nothing wrong with another one, your not convincing anyone otherwise no need to try. If your going to put mechanic's and rules to judge what counts as a good "art" form, then your objectivity is pretty useless to me personally, because neither one of those appeal to me on what I enjoy in anime or TV for that matter. Talking about things that dont matter doesnt interest me either, they might for drama students and such but thats their problem.
I'm obviously more liberal than he is with high scores but I give low scores quite naturally. If I bothered to rate all the shit I dropped they'd all be like 1-3 also.
Well, at least yours is ordered in a way that makes more sense to me, with a few exceptions.
How is Bebop so low on your list? You gave one of the highest rated, most award winning anime of all time a 5? I mean, it can't live up to the hype and what not, but it's still objectively amazingly animated, with a great soundtrack, both sets of VAs do a good job, and the action sequences are well done. What does it lack that made you rate it so low?
I don't get what's your problem. People have opinions about what shows they dislike/like. Just because something is "objectively" amazing doesn't mean they have to explain themselves when they rate it as a bad show.
it wouldn't be that way if people watched intellectually imo
I don't like that term. Saying you consider yourself "intellectual" sounds more than a bit pretentious to me.
It just means i'm classy, refined, and like to watch my anime with a cuban cigar and glass of yellow tail cabernet while eating beluga caviar obviously
I'm obviously more liberal than he is with high scores but I give low scores quite naturally. If I bothered to rate all the shit I dropped they'd all be like 1-3 also.
Well, at least yours is ordered in a way that makes more sense to me, with a few exceptions.
How is Bebop so low on your list? You gave one of the highest rated, most award winning anime of all time a 5? I mean, it can't live up to the hype and what not, but it's still objectively amazingly animated, with a great soundtrack, both sets of VAs do a good job, and the action sequences are well done. What does it lack that made you rate it so low?
I don't get what's your problem. People have opinions about what shows they dislike/like. Just because something is "objectively" amazing doesn't mean they have to explain themselves when they rate it as a bad show.
it wouldn't be that way if people watched intellectually imo
I don't like that term. Saying you consider yourself "intellectual" sounds more than a bit pretentious to me.
It just means i'm classy, refined, and like to watch my anime with a cuban cigar and glass of yellow tail cabernet while eating beluga caviar obviously
can you guys please stop arguing about objectivity vs subjectivity? you just recycle the same ideas over and over and nobody comes with a new viewpoint. Its not an intellectual discussion, its just immature and stupid. In the end its merely about how acceptive you are to analytical thinking... I lost all hope trying to discuss anything with you blockheads after you voted k-on over casshern sins.
I'm obviously more liberal than he is with high scores but I give low scores quite naturally. If I bothered to rate all the shit I dropped they'd all be like 1-3 also.
Finally someone whose seen the Read or Die OVA and liked it, I feel a little less lonely now,
I loved it, hell really enjoyed the tv series as well.
On December 24 2011 01:02 Requizen wrote: Hm, I just wound up re-reading the entire Hellsing manga (one of my perennial favorites that I actually own), and want to watch the anime, which I still haven't seen either of. Should I just stick to the OVAs, or is the original anime worth a look?
the first anime isn't bad but definitely goes off on a tangent, worth a watch if you want more hellsing sadly ultimate is not done yet.
All this talk of rating might just get me to fill in some probably will just work down for FMA and Hellsing manga if I do though.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.milezeromag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/cuba_cigar_350.jpg)
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