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On April 20 2021 10:48 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2021 05:14 cLutZ wrote:On April 19 2021 16:24 Mohdoo wrote:On April 19 2021 14:51 cLutZ wrote:
One thing I think I picked up is that Rodger and Whitebeard have a contempt and dismissal of the Linlin/Kaido era. Where did you pick up on this? It would make sense. It kind of feels like the rocks pirates were amazing and BM and kaido maybe rode that? Unclear I don't think it was any one scene, its just their actions yanno? Rodger and Whitebeard had battles and then drank together, WB never did that with either. Roger gave Shanks the Straw Hat, Whitey met with Shanks about BB (who Shanks and WB have a grudging respect of shown through their real fear of his ambitions). This also, IMO, is shown at Marineford where WB and Shanks seem to both have a better relationship with the Garp/Sengoku gen than the Akainu gen (by the way why are there no prominent marines in the Shanks/BB age range? I only found Smoker, who really isn't at that power level at all). My impression/theory is that the type of person who, despite being in the know, decides the navy/world government is gonna be on the right side of history, is either a coward or not ambitious enough. Characters who reach in the way necessary to become truly extraordinary do not tend to end up in the navy. For example, we have already seen Koby really struggling with his loyalty to the navy.
How does that square with Garp/Sengoku (both powerful and respected as such by WB and Roger) + the 3 Admirals (and now Fujitora, we don't know the 2nd new guys age) + Koby/Tashigi (disillusioned but want to reform from the inside)? Sure those last 2 cant keep up with luffy/zoro, but literally no one does, they are 19/21 and a legit Yonko/Commander pair (other Supernovas are all older: Law 26, Kid 23, Killer 27, Bonnie 24, Hawkins/Apoo 31, Drake 33, Bege 42, Urouge 47 and most had longer pre-Grand Line careers). Koby is 18 already could probably have taken out some of the Supernovas 1v1 at Sabody 1.0.
In fact, this is probably the big effect of Rodger because his execution is when all these would-be Shanks-age Navy officers were ~20 and thinking about signing up. In that generation most such people became pirates. But now as the pirate era wreaks devastation the equilibrium between violent glory and "justice" is evening out with people like Koby being committed to saving people.
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It's really a bummer that the Marines seem to be controlled by this one villain up top. There's only one neck "responsible", which is typical shonen stuff... I really enjoyed the Marines being this institutional entity that does both good and bad things.
Obviously massacres like Ohara are horrible, yet the World Government did not do it wantonly but was "forced" to do it in terms of their logic. I think the message of a world police becoming corrupted due to its sheer power is a very mature and relevant message in this series.
It's a bit hard to see the endgame for One Piece about world order. Will there be a purge in the Marines with a "good guy" on top, or will the organization cease to exist? From the general good viewpoint, the latter would be a catastrophe. If I was a galley captain in the high seas, I'd sure want even a hope of protection.
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On April 20 2021 12:31 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2021 10:48 Mohdoo wrote:On April 20 2021 05:14 cLutZ wrote:On April 19 2021 16:24 Mohdoo wrote:On April 19 2021 14:51 cLutZ wrote:
One thing I think I picked up is that Rodger and Whitebeard have a contempt and dismissal of the Linlin/Kaido era. Where did you pick up on this? It would make sense. It kind of feels like the rocks pirates were amazing and BM and kaido maybe rode that? Unclear I don't think it was any one scene, its just their actions yanno? Rodger and Whitebeard had battles and then drank together, WB never did that with either. Roger gave Shanks the Straw Hat, Whitey met with Shanks about BB (who Shanks and WB have a grudging respect of shown through their real fear of his ambitions). This also, IMO, is shown at Marineford where WB and Shanks seem to both have a better relationship with the Garp/Sengoku gen than the Akainu gen (by the way why are there no prominent marines in the Shanks/BB age range? I only found Smoker, who really isn't at that power level at all). My impression/theory is that the type of person who, despite being in the know, decides the navy/world government is gonna be on the right side of history, is either a coward or not ambitious enough. Characters who reach in the way necessary to become truly extraordinary do not tend to end up in the navy. For example, we have already seen Koby really struggling with his loyalty to the navy. How does that square with Garp/Sengoku (both powerful and respected as such by WB and Roger) + the 3 Admirals (and now Fujitora, we don't know the 2nd new guys age)
From Garp, we know that the powers that be are very bad people. His open disdain for world nobles sticks out. I think Sengoku and the admirals either think "world noblesare bad, but pirating is not the way to handle this" or "the royals are bad, but their power is so ultimate, there's nothing we can do other than keep the peace so every day people can be happy".
Theory: World nobles have some incredibly powerful weapon or doomsday device or something in Maryjoise. There is history of them using it, which they did during the great war empty time thing. They are actually bluffing and are not currently able to use it and need Law's devil fruit to use it. The "secret" that Doflamingo discovered was something that we know the world nobles can never let anyone know. To me that says it is something that would diminish their power. I think Doflamingo's ultimate goal was to seize control of this power in Maryjoise using Law's power.
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Freaky chapter. This is probably the arc where I have the hardest time placing and following the events geographically.
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so big mom does end up turning as some people expected.
and didnt we just have a break? wtf?
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So... how you like them apples?
I hope its the golden week break
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Austria24417 Posts
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I don't think Big Meme is going to switch sides, she's just being her usual goofy self. More likely she's gonna run into Kid next chapter and they will have their fight. I honestly can't predict who's going to win. Kid hasn't really shown any ability to even hurt the Yonkos and has had the most pathetic showing on the rooftop. If he can't take out Big Mom now then he can't really even be considered Luffy's rival in the future. So everything points to him losing... but Oda is no stranger to asspulls so who knows? Maybe Kid will unlock some CoC powers of his own.
Either way, Big Mom needs to be taken out of the equation somehow. When Luffy takes out Kaido he'll probably be too exhausted to fight another Yonko and there really isn't anyone else who could do any damage to Big Mom. Maybe Law will stitch up Zoro? Maybe Sanji? No way lol, def not him.
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I love Big Mom, easily my favorite yonkou.
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What a funky chapter. Definitely agreed that BM is a fun character and it's cool to see the extremely ruthless BM do something out of sentimentality. Wonder where she's going to end up.
Overall it feels like Luffy vs Kaido is in the final stage, which is weird considering that there are a bunch of fights that were announced that basically had 0 pages so far and Sanji doesn't even have a matchup yet.
On April 20 2021 13:58 herMan wrote:
It's really a bummer that the Marines seem to be controlled by this one villain up top. There's only one neck "responsible", which is typical shonen stuff... I really enjoyed the Marines being this institutional entity that does both good and bad things.
Obviously massacres like Ohara are horrible, yet the World Government did not do it wantonly but was "forced" to do it in terms of their logic. I think the message of a world police becoming corrupted due to its sheer power is a very mature and relevant message in this series.
It's a bit hard to see the endgame for One Piece about world order. Will there be a purge in the Marines with a "good guy" on top, or will the organization cease to exist? From the general good viewpoint, the latter would be a catastrophe. If I was a galley captain in the high seas, I'd sure want even a hope of protection.
I fully agree on the villain part, i liked it so much better when the WG was an ambivalent org that would do evil things to get results they perceived as for the greater good. Like perhaps there was a reason that somewhat justified the Ohara massacre. It'd be so much better if there was something that would make it understandable, introducing a top villain is flattening the depth of the marines quite a lot.
Overall I assume that the marines will split and people like Smoker and Drake will fight on Luffy's side, in the end opposing the WG. I assume that the world government will be the final boss and that we'll see a union of pirates, countries, marines and revolutionary army opposing them. That would relegate BB to an arc-boss though.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50200 Posts
Lmao big mom with the turn!
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On April 23 2021 23:13 Hyperbola wrote:
I don't think Big Meme is going to switch sides, she's just being her usual goofy self. More likely she's gonna run into Kid next chapter and they will have their fight. I honestly can't predict who's going to win. Kid hasn't really shown any ability to even hurt the Yonkos and has had the most pathetic showing on the rooftop. If he can't take out Big Mom now then he can't really even be considered Luffy's rival in the future. So everything points to him losing... but Oda is no stranger to asspulls so who knows? Maybe Kid will unlock some CoC powers of his own.
Either way, Big Mom needs to be taken out of the equation somehow. When Luffy takes out Kaido he'll probably be too exhausted to fight another Yonko and there really isn't anyone else who could do any damage to Big Mom. Maybe Law will stitch up Zoro? Maybe Sanji? No way lol, def not him.
BM is simply embracing her true self as an agent of chaos.
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One thing I loved in the last chapter was how Kaido noted how he and Luffy both enjoy fighting, especially when there's a lot on the line.
The way he said "Right?", was an acknowledgment that they're both in the same boat. He is able to make this observation only because he's the same as Luffy.
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Big Mom is being rather hypocritical here talking about standards for pirates. Afterall, she has no problem killing innocents or ordering the destruction of entire islands. She can be offended that the village was wiped out after it showed her hospitality, but it doesn't make sense for her to be offended and change sides by a standard that she doesn't abide by herself.
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i think the anger is more specifically because the person in danger is a child? its pretty clear that big mom has a weakness for child rearing
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Big Mom is being perfectly consistent, if she perceives you as an ally she isnt just going to murder you for no reason, she has an entire little country set up and the only time shes ever been seen fucking it up or even being beyond a fairly benevolent dictator is when she goes on mindless food rampages. They all gave her a bunch of food and were cool to her and she respects that, thats well within the scope of her character. It's nice that shes not a ruthless bastard like Kaido tbh, it'd be boring if being uber powerful in One Piece boiled you down to being a huge bastard like a Blackbeard or a Kaido or a complete goody goody like Shanks. Big Mom's character works nicely and is pretty consistent given what we've seen of society in Big Mom's kingdom
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On April 26 2021 01:25 Zambrah wrote:
Big Mom is being perfectly consistent, if she perceives you as an ally she isnt just going to murder you for no reason, she has an entire little country set up and the only time shes ever been seen fucking it up or even being beyond a fairly benevolent dictator is when she goes on mindless food rampages. They all gave her a bunch of food and were cool to her and she respects that, thats well within the scope of her character. It's nice that shes not a ruthless bastard like Kaido tbh, it'd be boring if being uber powerful in One Piece boiled you down to being a huge bastard like a Blackbeard or a Kaido or a complete goody goody like Shanks. Big Mom's character works nicely and is pretty consistent given what we've seen of society in Big Mom's kingdom
Except BM literally was about to kill the people she pretended to make an alliance and political marriage with. If they have something she wants she's definitely willing to throw her allies under the bus and I would have been not surprised at all if she planned to backstab Kaido too. She always seemed to me like a somewhat cunning but volatile character.
But she doesn't seem to be the type that intentionally does large scale atrocities within her kingdom for no reason and has her goons under control, I agree in that regard. Still I agree more with the agent of chaos idea, she is inherently moody and her behavior varies a lot depending on the mood she's in, between "aw, child, I'm going to ignore the SHs that I would have immediately killed in any other situation" to food ramages where she randomly destroys and eats people.
Her being inconsistent is quite consistent with her character imo.
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The Vinsmokes never did anything for Big Mom though, its a different situation, that was, as you stated, entirely a political marriage for political reasons, there was no good will from either side in that situation. Big Mom is like that old lady from Game of Thrones, whats her face, Olenda or Bolegda or something, shes capable of being vicious and calculating in political circumstances but outside of that she isn't really like, a horrible monster or anything, at least not on the level of Kaido.
Big Mom's most deliberately evil act within the sphere of actual people who she gives a shit about a la the people in her kingdom is the soul tithe-ing thing, which is definitely messed up, but the people all seem to be pretty genuinely happy under Big Mom's rule and theres no wanton evilness going down. As long as Big Mom perceives someone to be playing The Game then shes plenty ruthless and brutal, but if you're someone whose shown her legitimate good will then she's got standards she adheres to. I don't really agree shes an agent of chaos (at least not on purpose, shes definitely an inherently volatile person which leads to chaos, lol) I think thats just kind of where she lands given her relationships with everyone on Wano, if it wasn't such a crazy mixed bag of enemy/ally around Big Mom she'd probably just stick to the one side 'til the end, I don't feel that shes in for the chaos, its just kind of what happens around her.
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a lot of pirates in one piece have strange moral compasses. luffy is an example, crocodile deciding to help luffy.
big mom in particular though is delusional in the sense that she thinks her actions are helping to create an extended mother caramel family
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Eh? I don't think you can call Big Mom, whose first appearance was going on a mad rampage killing her own son for no reason as perfectly consistent. Except for being perfectly mad and chaotic.
It's like calling a rapist a nice person because he feeds and looks after stray cats. There's the tiny problem of well, being a rapist. A fairly benevolent dictator Big Mom is not. There's the tiny problem of well, being not benevolent at all.
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EPT
