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On March 20 2021 05:36 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2021 00:22 Mohdoo wrote:From the wiki regarding Catarina's power: The power of this fruit is similar to Bentham's Mane Mane no Mi and Charlotte Brûlée's Mira Mira no Mi, as they all allow the user to impersonate other people. Unlike the former, however, this fruit's power allows the user to even transform their clothes, and unlike the latter, the transformation is not a mirror image. Does this mean her devil fruit is strictly better than bon-chan's? Oh never mind, this is saying she doesn't copy the person's strengths or physical non-fruit abilities. On this topic, is Marco's devil fruit strictly better than Ace/Sabo's? Marcos fruit is probably not strictly better. As you see in Ace's story and sorta mentioned by Pekoms, logias just let you curbstomp the 1st half of the grand line. Tora-tora: Phoenix has never shown that level of offensive power. Its almost strictly a defensive fruit and Marco's huge stamina is probably also needed to fuel it.
Can’t say I agree lava being better. If you asked me what devil fruit I could have, it would likely be Marco’s.
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On March 20 2021 11:19 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2021 05:36 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 00:22 Mohdoo wrote:From the wiki regarding Catarina's power: The power of this fruit is similar to Bentham's Mane Mane no Mi and Charlotte Brûlée's Mira Mira no Mi, as they all allow the user to impersonate other people. Unlike the former, however, this fruit's power allows the user to even transform their clothes, and unlike the latter, the transformation is not a mirror image. Does this mean her devil fruit is strictly better than bon-chan's? Oh never mind, this is saying she doesn't copy the person's strengths or physical non-fruit abilities. On this topic, is Marco's devil fruit strictly better than Ace/Sabo's? Marcos fruit is probably not strictly better. As you see in Ace's story and sorta mentioned by Pekoms, logias just let you curbstomp the 1st half of the grand line. Tora-tora: Phoenix has never shown that level of offensive power. Its almost strictly a defensive fruit and Marco's huge stamina is probably also needed to fuel it. Can’t say I agree lava being better. If you asked me what devil fruit I could have, it would likely be Marco’s.
The stronger my Haki the more I would agree with you. Logias are all noob-stomp fruits, wheras Paramecia seems to have the strongest endgame fruits. But some paramecia will still suck, while no logia ever sucks.
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On March 20 2021 16:29 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2021 11:19 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 05:36 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 00:22 Mohdoo wrote:From the wiki regarding Catarina's power: The power of this fruit is similar to Bentham's Mane Mane no Mi and Charlotte Brûlée's Mira Mira no Mi, as they all allow the user to impersonate other people. Unlike the former, however, this fruit's power allows the user to even transform their clothes, and unlike the latter, the transformation is not a mirror image. Does this mean her devil fruit is strictly better than bon-chan's? Oh never mind, this is saying she doesn't copy the person's strengths or physical non-fruit abilities. On this topic, is Marco's devil fruit strictly better than Ace/Sabo's? Marcos fruit is probably not strictly better. As you see in Ace's story and sorta mentioned by Pekoms, logias just let you curbstomp the 1st half of the grand line. Tora-tora: Phoenix has never shown that level of offensive power. Its almost strictly a defensive fruit and Marco's huge stamina is probably also needed to fuel it. Can’t say I agree lava being better. If you asked me what devil fruit I could have, it would likely be Marco’s. The stronger my Haki the more I would agree with you. Logias are all noob-stomp fruits, wheras Paramecia seems to have the strongest endgame fruits. But some paramecia will still suck, while no logia ever sucks.
When I let myself get lost in theory-crafting my ideal devil fruit, I've determined Maro's fruit or Bartolomeo's fruit are the best. You could argue that once you are the strongest in the world, Brook's is the best, since you simply never die and nothing else will kill you.
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On March 21 2021 03:08 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2021 16:29 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 11:19 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 05:36 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 00:22 Mohdoo wrote:From the wiki regarding Catarina's power: The power of this fruit is similar to Bentham's Mane Mane no Mi and Charlotte Brûlée's Mira Mira no Mi, as they all allow the user to impersonate other people. Unlike the former, however, this fruit's power allows the user to even transform their clothes, and unlike the latter, the transformation is not a mirror image. Does this mean her devil fruit is strictly better than bon-chan's? Oh never mind, this is saying she doesn't copy the person's strengths or physical non-fruit abilities. On this topic, is Marco's devil fruit strictly better than Ace/Sabo's? Marcos fruit is probably not strictly better. As you see in Ace's story and sorta mentioned by Pekoms, logias just let you curbstomp the 1st half of the grand line. Tora-tora: Phoenix has never shown that level of offensive power. Its almost strictly a defensive fruit and Marco's huge stamina is probably also needed to fuel it. Can’t say I agree lava being better. If you asked me what devil fruit I could have, it would likely be Marco’s. The stronger my Haki the more I would agree with you. Logias are all noob-stomp fruits, wheras Paramecia seems to have the strongest endgame fruits. But some paramecia will still suck, while no logia ever sucks. When I let myself get lost in theory-crafting my ideal devil fruit, I've determined Maro's fruit or Bartolomeo's fruit are the best. You could argue that once you are the strongest in the world, Brook's is the best, since you simply never die and nothing else will kill you.
Brook's is a very confusing fruit. When you first eat it I think you still age. And when he died, because the ship was lost in the Florian Triangle it took his revived soul 2 years to find his body and by then it was a skeleton. But, who knows what happens if you revive right away.
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On March 21 2021 05:45 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2021 03:08 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 16:29 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 11:19 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 05:36 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 00:22 Mohdoo wrote:From the wiki regarding Catarina's power: The power of this fruit is similar to Bentham's Mane Mane no Mi and Charlotte Brûlée's Mira Mira no Mi, as they all allow the user to impersonate other people. Unlike the former, however, this fruit's power allows the user to even transform their clothes, and unlike the latter, the transformation is not a mirror image. Does this mean her devil fruit is strictly better than bon-chan's? Oh never mind, this is saying she doesn't copy the person's strengths or physical non-fruit abilities. On this topic, is Marco's devil fruit strictly better than Ace/Sabo's? Marcos fruit is probably not strictly better. As you see in Ace's story and sorta mentioned by Pekoms, logias just let you curbstomp the 1st half of the grand line. Tora-tora: Phoenix has never shown that level of offensive power. Its almost strictly a defensive fruit and Marco's huge stamina is probably also needed to fuel it. Can’t say I agree lava being better. If you asked me what devil fruit I could have, it would likely be Marco’s. The stronger my Haki the more I would agree with you. Logias are all noob-stomp fruits, wheras Paramecia seems to have the strongest endgame fruits. But some paramecia will still suck, while no logia ever sucks. When I let myself get lost in theory-crafting my ideal devil fruit, I've determined Maro's fruit or Bartolomeo's fruit are the best. You could argue that once you are the strongest in the world, Brook's is the best, since you simply never die and nothing else will kill you. Brook's is a very confusing fruit. When you first eat it I think you still age. And when he died, because the ship was lost in the Florian Triangle it took his revived soul 2 years to find his body and by then it was a skeleton. But, who knows what happens if you revive right away.
I would assume you just look normal except you also have soul powers. Maybe some minor skin pigmentation change?
In terms of fruits, you guys are seriously underestimating logias. They are 100% the strongest fruit type since they give you invulnerability to all physical attacks and grant you incredibly powerful elemental attacks and even some utility functions depending on what fruit it is. Even some of the shittiest logias already make someone a serious threat. Caribou is a joke of a pirate but he ate the Mud fruit (which frankly sounds awful) and now he's got a 200k bounty just for existing.
Logias also scale super well into higher power levels - as evidenced by the fact that all 3 admirals used to have one. Their use is only limited by your imagination. Just look at some of the shit Caesar was doing with his Gas fruit like creating a sword out of pure oxygen and setting shit on fire? Wtf? Honestly, I think Oda kinda screwed up with creating logia fruits and had to backpeddle massively with the introduction of Haki in order to restore some balance. But even still, all you really need to do is learn some Haki as a logia and boom, you're back to being top 0.01% of all fighters.
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On March 21 2021 07:20 Hyperbola wrote:
I would assume you just look normal except you also have soul powers. Maybe some minor skin pigmentation change?
Maybe, Brook didn't start with soul powers though. That is arguably his DF awakening* (he's had it a long time, which seems to be one of the awakening requirements). Arguably it may actually be kinda a crappy fruit for most people where you get revived after death 1x, and then is basically spent.
On March 21 2021 07:20 Hyperbola wrote:
In terms of fruits, you guys are seriously underestimating logias. They are 100% the strongest fruit type since they give you invulnerability to all physical attacks and grant you incredibly powerful elemental attacks and even some utility functions depending on what fruit it is. Even some of the shittiest logias already make someone a serious threat. Caribou is a joke of a pirate but he ate the Mud fruit (which frankly sounds awful) and now he's got a 200k bounty just for existing.
Yes, that is basically what Pekoms said in chapter 652. "Foolish logia users who think themselves invincible..."
Also, the first time we see an admiral come against a good haki user (Barlosono vs. Raliegh) the whole advantage of his fruit is basically nullified. Same with Smoker vs. Law and Virgo, and Monet vs. Tashigi.
Also the 3 Admirals were introduced at the time of pre-Haki. It was incredibly intimidating at the time. I remember watching and thinking that no one could take on 3 logia users at once. However, Pops was arguably only ever even hit by them when he was distracted and already wounded. And he would have wiped all the marine trash if Aokiji had any other logia and couldn't freeze the tsunami.
On March 21 2021 07:20 Hyperbola wrote:
Logias also scale super well into higher power levels - as evidenced by the fact that all 3 admirals used to have one. Their use is only limited by your imagination. Just look at some of the shit Caesar was doing with his Gas fruit like creating a sword out of pure oxygen and setting shit on fire? Wtf? Honestly, I think Oda kinda screwed up with creating logia fruits and had to backpeddle massively with the introduction of Haki in order to restore some balance. But even still, all you really need to do is learn some Haki as a logia and boom, you're back to being top 0.01% of all fighters.
Logia is definitely the highest power average class, but most of them are all offense later in the series, and don't provide as much utility as the better paramecias. Whitebeard and Kaido's fruits provide an easy way to deal with the higher-tier fodder that can survive conquerors bursts. I think only Akainu's logia has been close on that spectrum. Law's is probably the highest utility there is, because you can enslave basically all pirates and marines a tier below you (basically all non-Admiral-non-yonkos if you're the pirate king, plus the medical advantages. Doffy's string and Katakuri's mochi are also better than most logias once the haki-intangibility problem is overcome, they both are very high utility at restraining. Similarly the soul, shadow, and hobby fruits let you create armies and spies.
There is also one paramecia that is probably super OP for New World users that just has the crappiest user of just about anyone we've seen: Slow Slow Fruit.
* I don't think all DF's have awakenings. Like Whitebeard's fruit and Law's fruit already effect the environment as part of their natural powers.
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It's mostly a question of how good the haki is though. We saw Rayleigh take on Borsalino and do well, but we also saw Borsalino get through the Marineford war with 0 injuries. Kuzan was only injured there when he was caught off-guard. And Marco (who we know is incredibly strong) and Vista straight-up didn't manage to hurt Akainu with their own haki attacks, literally only Whitebeard could.
Also in terms of restraining, Blackbeard's logia fruit is the single best in the entire show since it allows you to deactivate DF abilities even if you don't have haki. Although the smoke and mud fruits are also much more useful for capturing than actually fighting when it comes to the New World.
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On March 21 2021 03:08 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2021 16:29 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 11:19 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 05:36 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 00:22 Mohdoo wrote:From the wiki regarding Catarina's power: The power of this fruit is similar to Bentham's Mane Mane no Mi and Charlotte Brûlée's Mira Mira no Mi, as they all allow the user to impersonate other people. Unlike the former, however, this fruit's power allows the user to even transform their clothes, and unlike the latter, the transformation is not a mirror image. Does this mean her devil fruit is strictly better than bon-chan's? Oh never mind, this is saying she doesn't copy the person's strengths or physical non-fruit abilities. On this topic, is Marco's devil fruit strictly better than Ace/Sabo's? Marcos fruit is probably not strictly better. As you see in Ace's story and sorta mentioned by Pekoms, logias just let you curbstomp the 1st half of the grand line. Tora-tora: Phoenix has never shown that level of offensive power. Its almost strictly a defensive fruit and Marco's huge stamina is probably also needed to fuel it. Can’t say I agree lava being better. If you asked me what devil fruit I could have, it would likely be Marco’s. The stronger my Haki the more I would agree with you. Logias are all noob-stomp fruits, wheras Paramecia seems to have the strongest endgame fruits. But some paramecia will still suck, while no logia ever sucks. When I let myself get lost in theory-crafting my ideal devil fruit, I've determined Maro's fruit or Bartolomeo's fruit are the best. You could argue that once you are the strongest in the world, Brook's is the best, since you simply never die and nothing else will kill you.
what are the bounds of your theory crafting?
in one piece science and logic dont apply, but if we assume for a second that the rules of the real world translate over, then kizaru's fruit is easily the fruit that has been most nerfed to the ground.
in terms of sheer power, kizaru should technically be the strongest character in one piece. the force he could generate by simply moving is more destructive than pretty much every fruit, and if he actually hit anything at 99% speed of light the battlefield would just vaporise. the idea that haki could stop kizaru is actually laughable.
good luck to law and other guys who have broken "utility fruits" when trying to catch kizaru before he disintegrates you with a simple fly by
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On March 21 2021 20:44 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2021 03:08 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 16:29 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 11:19 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 05:36 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 00:22 Mohdoo wrote:From the wiki regarding Catarina's power: The power of this fruit is similar to Bentham's Mane Mane no Mi and Charlotte Brûlée's Mira Mira no Mi, as they all allow the user to impersonate other people. Unlike the former, however, this fruit's power allows the user to even transform their clothes, and unlike the latter, the transformation is not a mirror image. Does this mean her devil fruit is strictly better than bon-chan's? Oh never mind, this is saying she doesn't copy the person's strengths or physical non-fruit abilities. On this topic, is Marco's devil fruit strictly better than Ace/Sabo's? Marcos fruit is probably not strictly better. As you see in Ace's story and sorta mentioned by Pekoms, logias just let you curbstomp the 1st half of the grand line. Tora-tora: Phoenix has never shown that level of offensive power. Its almost strictly a defensive fruit and Marco's huge stamina is probably also needed to fuel it. Can’t say I agree lava being better. If you asked me what devil fruit I could have, it would likely be Marco’s. The stronger my Haki the more I would agree with you. Logias are all noob-stomp fruits, wheras Paramecia seems to have the strongest endgame fruits. But some paramecia will still suck, while no logia ever sucks. When I let myself get lost in theory-crafting my ideal devil fruit, I've determined Maro's fruit or Bartolomeo's fruit are the best. You could argue that once you are the strongest in the world, Brook's is the best, since you simply never die and nothing else will kill you. what are the bounds of your theory crafting? in one piece science and logic dont apply, but if we assume for a second that the rules of the real world translate over, then kizaru's fruit is easily the fruit that has been most nerfed to the ground. in terms of sheer power, kizaru should technically be the strongest character in one piece. the force he could generate by simply moving is more destructive than pretty much every fruit, and if he actually hit anything at 99% speed of light the battlefield would just vaporise. the idea that haki could stop kizaru is actually laughable. good luck to law and other guys who have broken "utility fruits" when trying to catch kizaru before he disintegrates you with a simple fly by
Yeah he clearly travels thousands of times slower than the speed of light, otherwise he would just destroy the planet when he did anything. Maybe light is just slower in the OP universe and more akin to the speed of sound?
I wouldn't underestimate Aokiji either. The dude literally has no weaknesses since he can just freeze seawater and is also capable of one shotting Yonku commanders like he did Jozu. He almost killed Doflamingo too except that the bastard managed to break out at the last second. The thing is, he wasn't even trying, just casually attacked Doffy and almost ended his life. He's just got a built-in one shot button with his fruit. And he doesn't even need to touch you, he can just throw an ice spear and boom, you're frozen solid. Even whitebeard couldn't escape without using his quake fruit. If he had just been a haki swashbuckler like Roger, the war would have been over right then and there.
On March 21 2021 12:12 cLutZ wrote:
Doffy's string and Katakuri's mochi are also better than most logias once the haki-intangibility problem is overcome, they both are very high utility at restraining. Similarly the soul, shadow, and hobby fruits let you create armies and spies.
Regarding the mochi fruit, the only reason it's labeled a paramecia is because mochi is a manmade substance and not an element. I still think of it as a logia since if it quacks like a duck and it walks like a duck, it's a duck. I also agree with you on the string fruit being amazing - except for one small detail - it doesn't transform the user into a string man that's invulnerable to all damage like a logia would. It might seem like a minor thing but if you think about it, Doffy would never have gotten hit with Law's gamma knife and could have possibly won his fight against luffy if his fruit had been a logia type.
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On March 21 2021 21:49 Hyperbola wrote:
If he had just been a haki swashbuckler like Roger, the war would have been over right then and there.type.
I mean if Doflamingo can break out guys like Roger can as well. I'm sure haki is able to stop stuff like getting fully frozen by logias. Otherwise guys like Shanks, Roger, Garp or Rayleigh being top tiers would just not be feasible. Mind you Whitebeard spent that entire war struggling to use his haki at all cause he was a terminally ill old man.
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On March 21 2021 20:44 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2021 03:08 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 16:29 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 11:19 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 05:36 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 00:22 Mohdoo wrote:From the wiki regarding Catarina's power: The power of this fruit is similar to Bentham's Mane Mane no Mi and Charlotte Brûlée's Mira Mira no Mi, as they all allow the user to impersonate other people. Unlike the former, however, this fruit's power allows the user to even transform their clothes, and unlike the latter, the transformation is not a mirror image. Does this mean her devil fruit is strictly better than bon-chan's? Oh never mind, this is saying she doesn't copy the person's strengths or physical non-fruit abilities. On this topic, is Marco's devil fruit strictly better than Ace/Sabo's? Marcos fruit is probably not strictly better. As you see in Ace's story and sorta mentioned by Pekoms, logias just let you curbstomp the 1st half of the grand line. Tora-tora: Phoenix has never shown that level of offensive power. Its almost strictly a defensive fruit and Marco's huge stamina is probably also needed to fuel it. Can’t say I agree lava being better. If you asked me what devil fruit I could have, it would likely be Marco’s. The stronger my Haki the more I would agree with you. Logias are all noob-stomp fruits, wheras Paramecia seems to have the strongest endgame fruits. But some paramecia will still suck, while no logia ever sucks. When I let myself get lost in theory-crafting my ideal devil fruit, I've determined Maro's fruit or Bartolomeo's fruit are the best. You could argue that once you are the strongest in the world, Brook's is the best, since you simply never die and nothing else will kill you. what are the bounds of your theory crafting? in one piece science and logic dont apply, but if we assume for a second that the rules of the real world translate over, then kizaru's fruit is easily the fruit that has been most nerfed to the ground. in terms of sheer power, kizaru should technically be the strongest character in one piece. the force he could generate by simply moving is more destructive than pretty much every fruit, and if he actually hit anything at 99% speed of light the battlefield would just vaporise. the idea that haki could stop kizaru is actually laughable. good luck to law and other guys who have broken "utility fruits" when trying to catch kizaru before he disintegrates you with a simple fly by
For all other Logia fruits, the user reacts to things as if they are actually that thing. If Kizaru is actually just photons, him going the speed of light is not a problem, since he is massless. So I think that any time he is "being light", there is no reason for him to cause the destruction you're describing.
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On March 22 2021 06:16 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2021 20:44 evilfatsh1t wrote:On March 21 2021 03:08 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 16:29 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 11:19 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 05:36 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 00:22 Mohdoo wrote:From the wiki regarding Catarina's power: The power of this fruit is similar to Bentham's Mane Mane no Mi and Charlotte Brûlée's Mira Mira no Mi, as they all allow the user to impersonate other people. Unlike the former, however, this fruit's power allows the user to even transform their clothes, and unlike the latter, the transformation is not a mirror image. Does this mean her devil fruit is strictly better than bon-chan's? Oh never mind, this is saying she doesn't copy the person's strengths or physical non-fruit abilities. On this topic, is Marco's devil fruit strictly better than Ace/Sabo's? Marcos fruit is probably not strictly better. As you see in Ace's story and sorta mentioned by Pekoms, logias just let you curbstomp the 1st half of the grand line. Tora-tora: Phoenix has never shown that level of offensive power. Its almost strictly a defensive fruit and Marco's huge stamina is probably also needed to fuel it. Can’t say I agree lava being better. If you asked me what devil fruit I could have, it would likely be Marco’s. The stronger my Haki the more I would agree with you. Logias are all noob-stomp fruits, wheras Paramecia seems to have the strongest endgame fruits. But some paramecia will still suck, while no logia ever sucks. When I let myself get lost in theory-crafting my ideal devil fruit, I've determined Maro's fruit or Bartolomeo's fruit are the best. You could argue that once you are the strongest in the world, Brook's is the best, since you simply never die and nothing else will kill you. what are the bounds of your theory crafting? in one piece science and logic dont apply, but if we assume for a second that the rules of the real world translate over, then kizaru's fruit is easily the fruit that has been most nerfed to the ground. in terms of sheer power, kizaru should technically be the strongest character in one piece. the force he could generate by simply moving is more destructive than pretty much every fruit, and if he actually hit anything at 99% speed of light the battlefield would just vaporise. the idea that haki could stop kizaru is actually laughable. good luck to law and other guys who have broken "utility fruits" when trying to catch kizaru before he disintegrates you with a simple fly by For all other Logia fruits, the user reacts to things as if they are actually that thing. If Kizaru is actually just photons, him going the speed of light is not a problem, since he is massless. So I think that any time he is "being light", there is no reason for him to cause the destruction you're describing.
You are right. I was actually thinking about this on a walk today, and the glint glint fruit is actually stronger than it should be if we follow physics.
First, Kizaru/Borlasino is a human, which means when he's physically moving his body he is bound by the rules of human speed. When he goes into light mode, technically he should be massless, and since he appears to only control 1 wavelength (a visual yellow) he's not even gonna cause radiation burns or the like (thus his finger lasers are more powerful than they really should be). If he turns his leg into light when he kicks you, it should be like getting hit with a flashlight's beam. Aka not much.
Also, the problem with moving at light speed, if he was to, is he would lose all conception of time. Human cognition isn't enough for any measurable % of light speed for him to be able to control that at all. But if he were to go full light speed, he would go on until he hit some sort of Kizaru trap. He literally would not perceive time as existing and he'd end up like on the other side of the galaxy in a black hole.
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On March 22 2021 11:13 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2021 06:16 Mohdoo wrote:On March 21 2021 20:44 evilfatsh1t wrote:On March 21 2021 03:08 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 16:29 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 11:19 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 05:36 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 00:22 Mohdoo wrote:From the wiki regarding Catarina's power: The power of this fruit is similar to Bentham's Mane Mane no Mi and Charlotte Brûlée's Mira Mira no Mi, as they all allow the user to impersonate other people. Unlike the former, however, this fruit's power allows the user to even transform their clothes, and unlike the latter, the transformation is not a mirror image. Does this mean her devil fruit is strictly better than bon-chan's? Oh never mind, this is saying she doesn't copy the person's strengths or physical non-fruit abilities. On this topic, is Marco's devil fruit strictly better than Ace/Sabo's? Marcos fruit is probably not strictly better. As you see in Ace's story and sorta mentioned by Pekoms, logias just let you curbstomp the 1st half of the grand line. Tora-tora: Phoenix has never shown that level of offensive power. Its almost strictly a defensive fruit and Marco's huge stamina is probably also needed to fuel it. Can’t say I agree lava being better. If you asked me what devil fruit I could have, it would likely be Marco’s. The stronger my Haki the more I would agree with you. Logias are all noob-stomp fruits, wheras Paramecia seems to have the strongest endgame fruits. But some paramecia will still suck, while no logia ever sucks. When I let myself get lost in theory-crafting my ideal devil fruit, I've determined Maro's fruit or Bartolomeo's fruit are the best. You could argue that once you are the strongest in the world, Brook's is the best, since you simply never die and nothing else will kill you. what are the bounds of your theory crafting? in one piece science and logic dont apply, but if we assume for a second that the rules of the real world translate over, then kizaru's fruit is easily the fruit that has been most nerfed to the ground. in terms of sheer power, kizaru should technically be the strongest character in one piece. the force he could generate by simply moving is more destructive than pretty much every fruit, and if he actually hit anything at 99% speed of light the battlefield would just vaporise. the idea that haki could stop kizaru is actually laughable. good luck to law and other guys who have broken "utility fruits" when trying to catch kizaru before he disintegrates you with a simple fly by For all other Logia fruits, the user reacts to things as if they are actually that thing. If Kizaru is actually just photons, him going the speed of light is not a problem, since he is massless. So I think that any time he is "being light", there is no reason for him to cause the destruction you're describing. You are right. I was actually thinking about this on a walk today, and the glint glint fruit is actually stronger than it should be if we follow physics. First, Kizaru/Borlasino is a human, which means when he's physically moving his body he is bound by the rules of human speed. When he goes into light mode, technically he should be massless, and since he appears to only control 1 wavelength (a visual yellow) he's not even gonna cause radiation burns or the like (thus his finger lasers are more powerful than they really should be). If he turns his leg into light when he kicks you, it should be like getting hit with a flashlight's beam. Aka not much. Also, the problem with moving at light speed, if he was to, is he would lose all conception of time. Human cognition isn't enough for any measurable % of light speed for him to be able to control that at all. But if he were to go full light speed, he would go on until he hit some sort of Kizaru trap. He literally would not perceive time as existing and he'd end up like on the other side of the galaxy in a black hole.
I think its the same as other fruits where the user is able to create more of whatever they are made out of. Ace could create gigantic flames, presumably bigger than he originally could. I imagine Kizaru can create brighter light than he used to be able to, so he's essentially a laser. Even though it is yellow light, if it had an extremely high brightness, it could melt steel.
As for movement, headcanon for me is that he can essentially shoot himself certain distances. So he chooses to become light for some amount of time. So its not that he is swirling around as photons zipping left and right, its more so he has to follow straight lines.
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On March 22 2021 06:16 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2021 20:44 evilfatsh1t wrote:On March 21 2021 03:08 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 16:29 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 11:19 Mohdoo wrote:On March 20 2021 05:36 cLutZ wrote:On March 20 2021 00:22 Mohdoo wrote:From the wiki regarding Catarina's power: The power of this fruit is similar to Bentham's Mane Mane no Mi and Charlotte Brûlée's Mira Mira no Mi, as they all allow the user to impersonate other people. Unlike the former, however, this fruit's power allows the user to even transform their clothes, and unlike the latter, the transformation is not a mirror image. Does this mean her devil fruit is strictly better than bon-chan's? Oh never mind, this is saying she doesn't copy the person's strengths or physical non-fruit abilities. On this topic, is Marco's devil fruit strictly better than Ace/Sabo's? Marcos fruit is probably not strictly better. As you see in Ace's story and sorta mentioned by Pekoms, logias just let you curbstomp the 1st half of the grand line. Tora-tora: Phoenix has never shown that level of offensive power. Its almost strictly a defensive fruit and Marco's huge stamina is probably also needed to fuel it. Can’t say I agree lava being better. If you asked me what devil fruit I could have, it would likely be Marco’s. The stronger my Haki the more I would agree with you. Logias are all noob-stomp fruits, wheras Paramecia seems to have the strongest endgame fruits. But some paramecia will still suck, while no logia ever sucks. When I let myself get lost in theory-crafting my ideal devil fruit, I've determined Maro's fruit or Bartolomeo's fruit are the best. You could argue that once you are the strongest in the world, Brook's is the best, since you simply never die and nothing else will kill you. what are the bounds of your theory crafting? in one piece science and logic dont apply, but if we assume for a second that the rules of the real world translate over, then kizaru's fruit is easily the fruit that has been most nerfed to the ground. in terms of sheer power, kizaru should technically be the strongest character in one piece. the force he could generate by simply moving is more destructive than pretty much every fruit, and if he actually hit anything at 99% speed of light the battlefield would just vaporise. the idea that haki could stop kizaru is actually laughable. good luck to law and other guys who have broken "utility fruits" when trying to catch kizaru before he disintegrates you with a simple fly by For all other Logia fruits, the user reacts to things as if they are actually that thing. If Kizaru is actually just photons, him going the speed of light is not a problem, since he is massless. So I think that any time he is "being light", there is no reason for him to cause the destruction you're describing.
yeah if we apply science really strictly then this would be the case, but the truth is you gotta cut some corners here to make his fruit even remotely possible.
firstly the manga and anime have both shown that he can hit things with his beam of light, therefore there is definitely mass.
the other thing is in the real world light is constant. clearly kizaru isnt, which means we have to make the not at all real proposition that kizaru has the ability to accelerate to light speed and decelerate when he wants to. this is also shown in the manga and anime because he flies around in his light form but then comes to a stop. so my hypothesis on how kizarus fruit should work is either, he breaks the rules of human physics by carrying mass in his light form, or he can accelerate up to light speed at which point he should technically be massless (though it has been shown that this isnt the case). either theory makes him the strongest character in the series because the latter means he could just accelerate to 99% c and keep his mass. the only other alternative would be he phases between his human form and light form but if you were going to pick this theory then you may as well pick the 1st theory. all the theories are impossible by human standards but i think kizaru phasing between forms would have to break the most rules.
if you give kizaru's fruit some leeway because its a fantasy genre, then for me he should be undisputedly the strongest. on a tier pyramid it would be kizaru at the top and then 100 floors below you have the runner up.
edit: after watching a few clips of kizaru fight again its pretty obvious that oda intended kizaru to have the properties of light with the exception of it being massless. his beams are just as destructive as pacifista beams and he makes a sword out of photons that actually collides with other swords. most nerfed character ever. though i guess you could flip it and say hes an extremely overbuffed walking flashlight
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You know, if Kizaru isn't careful he could blast himself into space on accident. Light speed is far beyond escape velocity and Kizaru can technically fly tens of thousands of miles before he could even react to what he's doing. If he makes one bad jump then he's going off into space and is never coming back. Think about it - he would first need to collide with something, which could take years, and even then how the hell is he going to find his way back to the OP world when their entire solar system is presumably moving in some unknown direction?
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Well the most basic theory on Oden was the right one.
One day... one day Enel will apear again
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I guess there will be no redemption for Kanjuro. I wish we could at least see a proper fight with him. His ability is amazing and is probably one of the most versatile fruits in the OP world.
I'm kinda thinking Momonosuke will take him out. They have a bit of a rivalry going ever since momo got captured. Seeing as how Kanjuro is almost dead, maybe a mini blast breath from momo will finish him off.
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So the guy who healed the samurais is still unrevealed. It would not make any sense for Kanjuro to heal them and then try to kill them again.
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On March 27 2021 22:33 herMan wrote:
So the guy who healed the samurais is still unrevealed. It would not make any sense for Kanjuro to heal them and then try to kill them again.
While on the Moon, Enel uncovered the link between the moon, minks and the Kozuki clan. Enel learns it is just as difficult to reach earth as the moon and his new allies have wanted to return to Wano for hundreds of years after fleeing during the great war. On their way there, they realize the fight taking place and they stealthily enter to provide support.
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Still holding out hope it's Enel who healed them.
People killed off but revealed still be alive in this chapter: Kanjuro. Kurozumi Orochi. Pedro
People don't die when they are killed in One Piece.
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EPT
