EPTI don't think we have witnessed absolute evil in the OP universe yet. Plenty of assholes though
[Manga] One Piece - Page 1304
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This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing One Piece. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here. If an episode or a chapter has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers. If you have knowledge on a chapter that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. | ||
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herMan
Japan2053 Posts
I don't think we have witnessed absolute evil in the OP universe yet. Plenty of assholes though | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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Hyperbola
United States2540 Posts
On September 16 2016 03:21 Sentenal wrote: You guys really think that being absolutely sure you are massacring every last innocent, unarmed civilian just to make sure no thought-criminals (who are guilty of reading some books) escape is justice and/or good? To be fair, he's literally in charge of keeping multiple evil empires and countless terrorist organizations at bay. He kind of needs to be a hardass. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On September 16 2016 03:54 Hyperbola wrote: To be fair, he's literally in charge of keeping multiple evil empires and countless terrorist organizations at bay. He kind of needs to be a hardass. your confusing which came first he has a hardass long before then | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
edit : nevermind the comment before mentioned it :D | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6657 Posts
On September 16 2016 03:21 Sentenal wrote: You guys really think that being absolutely sure you are massacring every last innocent, unarmed civilian just to make sure no thought-criminals (who are guilty of reading some books) escape is justice and/or good? That is a grave over simplification of the situation though. And while we know they just wanted to know the history of the world, the problem is they are poking into knowledge that could throw the world into chaos, and they had the knowledge to find and use ancient weapons (The One Piece equivalent of nuclear weapons.) So from Akainu's eyes it was for the greater good, yes some innocent lives had to be sacrificed but it's either that or risk potentially hundreds of thousands more, not mention more war and chaos adding onto the other revolutions already happening in the world. While I disagree with what he did, I can see how it could be viewed as justified. And do not think his actions were inherently evil. He did what he believed was the best way to keep the rest of the world safe. | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
On September 16 2016 03:10 herMan wrote: I think Akainu's justice is black and white in a world full of grey. Can't remember the instances but he tends to go over the top with his conduct. I don't think we have witnessed absolute evil in the OP universe yet. Plenty of assholes though doflamingo is the biggest devil up to date i think, considering he was a top notch arms dealer, representing the famous "big business" kaido may also play in that category also i agree with the previous comment about akainu, i also appreciate his kind of justice and the fact that he gets things done, the most outstanding character during the marineford arc imo and became really immense after that | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On September 16 2016 04:55 Necro)Phagist( wrote: That is a grave over simplification of the situation though. And while we know they just wanted to know the history of the world, the problem is they are poking into knowledge that could throw the world into chaos, and they had the knowledge to find and use ancient weapons (The One Piece equivalent of nuclear weapons.) So from Akainu's eyes it was for the greater good, yes some innocent lives had to be sacrificed but it's either that or risk potentially hundreds of thousands more, not mention more war and chaos adding onto the other revolutions already happening in the world. While I disagree with what he did, I can see how it could be viewed as justified. And do not think his actions were inherently evil. He did what he believed was the best way to keep the rest of the world safe. What they are guilty of is thought-crime. And the punishment they were dealt for said thought-crime was not only their death, but the death of hundreds of unrelated, innocent civilians. Its blowing my mind people are saying that tyranny and genocide can be justified and excused. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
Wasn't the whole argument to begin with that One Piece is either black/white or grey (though I'd say it's both). Akainu unlike Big Mom isn't killing people for personal pleasure or to gain power, but because of his absolute sense of justice. The people of Ohrah can revive ancient weapons, people like Robin can kill as many people as a Yonko crew. They shouldn't be put to death for the mere possibility, but I can understand why people would want them dead. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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herMan
Japan2053 Posts
I agree with Doflamingo being the biggest evil in the series so far, he was a fucked up sadist. | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6657 Posts
On September 16 2016 06:07 Sentenal wrote: I'm sure Hitler thought he was justified too, but that doesn't make him any less evil. A character being able to justify their atrocities to themselves doesn't make them not evil. I'm just gonna ignore the Hitler comparison because anytime that gets brought up intelligent discussion goes out the window. Let me ask you this, Would you kill 1,000 innocent people if it meant saving 100,000 or more? Whether Ohara intended to use it or not, that knowledge would eventually lead to the use of those weapons. Whether a pirate forced them to which almost happened with Crocodile. Imagine if it wasn't Robin but a weak willed intellect that Crocodile got a hold of, he would have his weapon of mass destruction. Or if one of their own became corrupt etc. Given enough time, the ability to locate and use the weapons would have attracted some people willing to use them. It's not a question of if they would have been used but a question of when. The bottom line, they knew looking into that shit was illegal, that knowledge puts the entire world in danger from the WG perspective. Again I'd like to restate I do not agree with what he did, just trying to show the other side of it here. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
As for grey actions I already brought up Impel Down previously as Luffy freed a known mass murderer Crocodile to help save his brother and helped free a bunch of other criminals that should have stayed there. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On September 16 2016 03:21 Sentenal wrote: You guys really think that being absolutely sure you are massacring every last innocent, unarmed civilian just to make sure no thought-criminals (who are guilty of reading some books) escape is justice and/or good? It's not, he's an asshole, but he has a reason to do what he does. Honestly, what he did is comparable to what Obama does with his drone strikes. You'll have 50 people in a room, 2 or 3 are terrorists for sure, the rest are children. Drone strikes kills off everyone just to make sure we get rid of the problem. Yes, I'm comparing Akainu to Obama. I think he's a hardass and he does fucked up shit but that's how it is, sometimes. Also yeah, "some books" are basically the void history which I guess may as well be comparable to terrorism when you think about it. Their discoveries would throw the world into turmoil and upset the established governments. Might give the revolutionaries more traction, etc. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On September 16 2016 07:01 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I'm just gonna ignore the Hitler comparison because anytime that gets brought up intelligent discussion goes out the window. Let me ask you this, Would you kill 1,000 innocent people if it meant saving 100,000 or more? Whether Ohara intended to use it or not, that knowledge would eventually lead to the use of those weapons. Whether a pirate forced them to which almost happened with Crocodile. Imagine if it wasn't Robin but a weak willed intellect that Crocodile got a hold of, he would have his weapon of mass destruction. Or if one of their own became corrupt etc. Given enough time, the ability to locate and use the weapons would have attracted some people willing to use them. It's not a question of if they would have been used but a question of when. The bottom line, they knew looking into that shit was illegal, that knowledge puts the entire world in danger from the WG perspective. Again I'd like to restate I do not agree with what he did, just trying to show the other side of it here. No, I would not kill 1000 innocent people to save a hypothetical larger sum, because thats stupid. Plus what sort of situation is that? Some sort of occult sacrificial ceremony where you have to take an innocent and cut them open to try and bring about some better future? I'm pretty sure such people are savages and barbarians. Assuming that people actually do need to die, it should be the guilty, not the innocent. Thats how civilized society is. How is this a hard concept? Anyone has the potential to cause harm. Should Vega Punk be put to death because he has the knowledge to create doomsday devices? Should Akainu be put to death because he has the ability to wreck people? The WG didn't even have the island exterminated because they know about the weapons. Hell, if that was how it was, you'd imagine they would capture them, and try to get the weapons for themselves, like what they did with Robin. No, they exterminated Ohara because they knew about the Void Century. And even assuming your twisted logic does allows those thought-criminals to die, its completely inexcusable that the innocents who died along side them died. Did they have to massacre civilians in order to make sure none got away? No, it was just the easiest way. Why take responsibility and do things the right way when someone has no value for human life? | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6657 Posts
On September 16 2016 09:32 Sentenal wrote: No, I would not kill 1000 innocent people to save a hypothetical larger sum, because thats stupid. Plus what sort of situation is that? Some sort of occult sacrificial ceremony where you have to take an innocent and cut them open to try and bring about some better future? I'm pretty sure such people are savages and barbarians. Assuming that people actually do need to die, it should be the guilty, not the innocent. Thats how civilized society is. How is this a hard concept? Anyone has the potential to cause harm. Should Vega Punk be put to death because he has the knowledge to create doomsday devices? Should Akainu be put to death because he has the ability to wreck people? The WG didn't even have the island exterminated because they know about the weapons. Hell, if that was how it was, you'd imagine they would capture them, and try to get the weapons for themselves, like what they did with Robin. No, they exterminated Ohara because they knew about the Void Century. And even assuming your twisted logic does allows those thought-criminals to die, its completely inexcusable that the innocents who died along side them died. Did they have to massacre civilians in order to make sure none got away? No, it was just the easiest way. Why take responsibility and do things the right way when someone has no value for human life? Again, for the THIRD time, this is not what I believe, it is not my logic, just trying to show from the perspective of the other side. Trying to have a friendly discussion about it. No need to get so defensive about it. Is it really a hypothetical sum though? If Ohara kept learning these secrets and kept teaching more people how to read the poneglyphs, those weapons would definitely come into play sooner or later and people would die. Exactly how would you propose to decide which people are scholars and which aren't? It would be too risky for them to let anyone through really. And no Vegapunk should not be put to death, because what he does is legal, contained and regulated properly. Which is why unlike Ceasar he is not a criminal. See the difference there, Vegapunk operates inside the law, does things in a way that can be controlled, Ceasar operates outside the law and ends up making weapons that can kill tons of people and leaks them into the hands of the wrong people because his product isn't regulated. Yes in an absolute perfect scenario the guilty should be the only ones punished, but sometimes that isn't possible. Life isn't fair in reality or in One Piece, sometimes you have to make tough decisions and sometimes innocent people get screwed for the greater good. And before you start attacking my views and beliefs personally again, I will state in advance for the 4th time now. I disagree with what Akainu did, I think it was wrong. I am just trying to show the thoughts from the other side to prove it isn't always so black and white. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
Life isn't fair, and sometimes innocent people get screwed. And sometimes there is no good solution. But that doesn't make it right or justifiable. | ||
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