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On September 07 2016 10:40 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2016 00:58 BlackMagister wrote:On September 03 2016 07:06 Makro wrote:
i don't know why but i have the feeling the vinsmoke family won't comply to big mom and they are gonna try something during the tea party
i find hard that they are gonna agree to be vassal It's an alliance though not a vassal ship like Capone's crew. This is something the Vinsmoke family agreed to so they could get power from Big Mom's crew. Though it might seem weird they need help to conquer North Blue when all the pre-Grand Line oceans are weak it's probably to hold onto it because if an ocean area is taken over at least an Admiral will be sent. Yonko's on the other hand are so strong the Marine's don't pick a fight with unless they are absolutely prepared. The only reason to betray Big Mom would be if their the goal the entire time was to betray Big Mom, but what would the Vinsmokes gain by trying to kill a Yonko? Actually a lot could be gained from killing Big Mom. The Vinsmoke could be working for another Yonko or even the navy and they agree to help Vinsmoke conquer North Blue. The wedding could just be a cover like someone said to get close to Big Mom and kill her. Considering that Luffy crew befriended one of Big Mom daughter and have received her vivre card, it seems like the end result of this whole thing is that Luffy crew befriend Big Mom crew.
The Vinsmokes agreed to the marriage for Big Mom's help to conquer North Blue. Your suggested motivation for them to betray her is to get help from Marines or another Yonko to conquer North Blue. Only an alliance with the Marines would be a step up from Big Mom as their territory acquisition would become legal with the Marines. It's the same goal with a higher risk so I don't see the point.
Killing Big Mom is likely very difficult due to her immense physical strength and her DF might mean she has a Voldermort horcrux like immortality system, if the Vinsmokes fail to kill her they are screwed. Even if they do succeed it means pissing off her entire crew so I don't see the Vinsmokes getting out unscathed from the wedding and if they do there is now a large crew out for revenge. On the other hand if they work with Big Mom they are just pissing off the Marines who already hate them.
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On September 07 2016 11:24 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 10:40 SheaR619 wrote:On September 04 2016 00:58 BlackMagister wrote:On September 03 2016 07:06 Makro wrote:
i don't know why but i have the feeling the vinsmoke family won't comply to big mom and they are gonna try something during the tea party
i find hard that they are gonna agree to be vassal It's an alliance though not a vassal ship like Capone's crew. This is something the Vinsmoke family agreed to so they could get power from Big Mom's crew. Though it might seem weird they need help to conquer North Blue when all the pre-Grand Line oceans are weak it's probably to hold onto it because if an ocean area is taken over at least an Admiral will be sent. Yonko's on the other hand are so strong the Marine's don't pick a fight with unless they are absolutely prepared. The only reason to betray Big Mom would be if their the goal the entire time was to betray Big Mom, but what would the Vinsmokes gain by trying to kill a Yonko? Actually a lot could be gained from killing Big Mom. The Vinsmoke could be working for another Yonko or even the navy and they agree to help Vinsmoke conquer North Blue. The wedding could just be a cover like someone said to get close to Big Mom and kill her. Considering that Luffy crew befriended one of Big Mom daughter and have received her vivre card, it seems like the end result of this whole thing is that Luffy crew befriend Big Mom crew. The Vinsmokes agreed to the marriage for Big Mom's help to conquer North Blue. Your suggested motivation for them to betray her is to get help from Marines or another Yonko to conquer North Blue. Only an alliance with the Marines would be a step up from Big Mom as their territory acquisition would become legal with the Marines. It's the same goal with a higher risk so I don't see the point. Killing Big Mom is likely very difficult due to her immense physical strength and her DF might mean she has a Voldermort horcrux like immortality system, if the Vinsmokes fail to kill her they are screwed. Even if they do succeed it means pissing off her entire crew so I don't see the Vinsmokes getting out unscathed from the wedding and if they do there is now a large crew out for revenge. On the other hand if they work with Big Mom who are they pissing off? The Marines, but the Marines already hate them.
While I agree with you, to play the devils advocate.
What if the deal with the marines was to take out Big Mom and they would legitimize the Vinsmokes rule over North Blue? It's not like the WG hasn't made illegitimate people rulers of countries before. Take care of Big Mom and her crew to get solidified and legitimate rule of North Blue seems like a decent trade. If they can kill Big Mom her remaining crew members probably won't be that big of a threat anyway.
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Yeah and that's what I meant with Vinsmoke's allying with the Marines is the only alliance better than Yonko as their territory would become legal, but not by much.
In order for the Vinsmokes to want to betray Big Mom the reward needs to be much greater than North Blue since that's what they're already getting with the marriage alliance. The Vinsmokes trade their hated son and share some technology in exchange for North Blue, betraying Big Mom on the other hand would require a huge reward as motivation.
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Okay real prediction time...
Poll: Sanji starts to use hands in combatNo (12) 92% Oh fuck yeah! (1) 8% 13 total votes Your vote: Sanji starts to use hands in combat (Vote): Oh fuck yeah!
(Vote): No
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
On September 07 2016 19:57 evanthebouncy! wrote:Okay real prediction time... Poll: Sanji starts to use hands in combatNo (12) 92% Oh fuck yeah! (1) 8% 13 total votes Your vote: Sanji starts to use hands in combat (Vote): Oh fuck yeah!
(Vote): No
only if he does it like Regal in Symphonia
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On September 07 2016 11:24 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 10:40 SheaR619 wrote:On September 04 2016 00:58 BlackMagister wrote:On September 03 2016 07:06 Makro wrote:
i don't know why but i have the feeling the vinsmoke family won't comply to big mom and they are gonna try something during the tea party
i find hard that they are gonna agree to be vassal It's an alliance though not a vassal ship like Capone's crew. This is something the Vinsmoke family agreed to so they could get power from Big Mom's crew. Though it might seem weird they need help to conquer North Blue when all the pre-Grand Line oceans are weak it's probably to hold onto it because if an ocean area is taken over at least an Admiral will be sent. Yonko's on the other hand are so strong the Marine's don't pick a fight with unless they are absolutely prepared. The only reason to betray Big Mom would be if their the goal the entire time was to betray Big Mom, but what would the Vinsmokes gain by trying to kill a Yonko? Actually a lot could be gained from killing Big Mom. The Vinsmoke could be working for another Yonko or even the navy and they agree to help Vinsmoke conquer North Blue. The wedding could just be a cover like someone said to get close to Big Mom and kill her. Considering that Luffy crew befriended one of Big Mom daughter and have received her vivre card, it seems like the end result of this whole thing is that Luffy crew befriend Big Mom crew. The Vinsmokes agreed to the marriage for Big Mom's help to conquer North Blue. Your suggested motivation for them to betray her is to get help from Marines or another Yonko to conquer North Blue. Only an alliance with the Marines would be a step up from Big Mom as their territory acquisition would become legal with the Marines. It's the same goal with a higher risk so I don't see the point. Killing Big Mom is likely very difficult due to her immense physical strength and her DF might mean she has a Voldermort horcrux like immortality system, if the Vinsmokes fail to kill her they are screwed. Even if they do succeed it means pissing off her entire crew so I don't see the Vinsmokes getting out unscathed from the wedding and if they do there is now a large crew out for revenge. On the other hand if they work with Big Mom they are just pissing off the Marines who already hate them.
there plan might be to cut out the middle man, sieze enough power from big mom and then kill her and conquer north blue without having to give her anything
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How do you seize power/crew when the members are loyal to another leader? This ain't no Davy Back fight. The Vinsmokes will be borrowing Big Mom's crew with the alliance, if they kill Big Mom not only will the borrowed crew refuse to help, but will actively try to kill the Vinsmokes. The technology the Vinsmokes are trading is battle related so it probably will be traded at the same time if the Vinsmokes are borrowing heavy hitters from Big Mom's crew.
It's not like Vinsmokes it's impossible for the Vinsmokes to betray Big Mom and kill her, they are a family of assassins after all, but the negatives vastly outweigh any currently foreseeable positives.
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The Vinsmokes could be allying with the Capone family and the two of them will attempt to take out Big Mom. Pekoms told Capone that he was underestimating Big Mom and would regret it, so there seems to be a plot against her.
The goal would probably be to take over her territory and resources. They would probably have to defeat all of her executive members who would remain loyal, but a lot of the allies may have been coerced into being allies and may switch loyalty to a new leader if Big Mom is taken out. Suddenly Capone or the Vinsmokes would hold one of the most powerful forces in the world and simply controlling North Blue would be nothing.
It's also interesting that most of the time, Big Mom's underlings tell their opponents that "you will never even get near Big Mom". They never say, "Big Mom is monstrously strong and will destroy you." We have some evidence that she's insanely powerful, like the fact that she's a yonko and we've seen her eat powerful people, but those powerful people didn't fight back at all and there's also some evidence that she may not quite be the monster we would think.
It seems like a whole lot is going on and I can't wait to see how Oda resolves it.
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On September 08 2016 14:13 BlackMagister wrote:
How do you seize power/crew when the members are loyal to another leader? This ain't no Davy Back fight. The Vinsmokes will be borrowing Big Mom's crew with the alliance, if they kill Big Mom not only will the borrowed crew refuse to help, but will actively try to kill the Vinsmokes. The technology the Vinsmokes are trading is battle related so it probably will be traded at the same time if the Vinsmokes are borrowing heavy hitters from Big Mom's crew.
It's not like Vinsmokes it's impossible for the Vinsmokes to betray Big Mom and kill her, they are a family of assassins after all, but the negatives vastly outweigh any currently foreseeable positives.
vinsmokes might be recieving technology as well and you may be overstating the loyalties of a pirate crew if they wipe out big mom and her top execs the fodder would probably either run or fall in line
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I really like the suggestion of capone and the vinsmokes being allies. Capone is a supernova afterall. They all got an ego big enough to think they can challenge yonkous.
Luffy becoming official allies with big mom as a result maybe?
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On September 08 2016 15:17 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 14:13 BlackMagister wrote:
How do you seize power/crew when the members are loyal to another leader? This ain't no Davy Back fight. The Vinsmokes will be borrowing Big Mom's crew with the alliance, if they kill Big Mom not only will the borrowed crew refuse to help, but will actively try to kill the Vinsmokes. The technology the Vinsmokes are trading is battle related so it probably will be traded at the same time if the Vinsmokes are borrowing heavy hitters from Big Mom's crew.
It's not like Vinsmokes it's impossible for the Vinsmokes to betray Big Mom and kill her, they are a family of assassins after all, but the negatives vastly outweigh any currently foreseeable positives. vinsmokes might be recieving technology as well and you may be overstating the loyalties of a pirate crew if they wipe out big mom and her top execs the fodder would probably either run or fall in line
Are you just making stuff up or do you have something that supports these points? Technology where? The rest of her crew is fodder and therefore weak? This is a Yonko crew I'd imagine she has many fighters of Pekoms and Tamago's strength, her crew is not just her top execs. Remember Randolph the rabbit knight who is able to fight on par with Carrot despite not being a Mink, he is just a rabbit with a soul. This is a Big Mom fodder, called homies, who fights with the strength of a named character.
On September 08 2016 14:39 RenSC2 wrote:
The Vinsmokes could be allying with the Capone family and the two of them will attempt to take out Big Mom. Pekoms told Capone that he was underestimating Big Mom and would regret it, so there seems to be a plot against her.
Yeah I could see that a betrayal better if they worked with someone in the crew. Take the Strawhats for instance. Law killing Luffy would not make the Strawhat crew loyal to him he is just an outsider, but if the worked with someone in the crew so they could help take over it might work. The best person to work with in a hypothetical takeover to get as many of the SH crew loyal would be Nami, she is often the brains and literal/figurative direction of the crew plus she has the best standing with other members.
However Vinsmokes working with Capone would be like having their insider be Brooke, Brooke is a member of the SH, but he would worst member to help with a takeover even though he would help. Some of the crew might join with the help of an insider even a new one, but a lot of the crew would need to be dealt with forcefully.
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I see all you people posting on a Thrusday, and makes me think a new chapter is out! And then I remember we are on break this week...
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The thing is.. something need to happen, because the SH's can't take on the vinsmokes and BigMum
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The Strawhats shouldn't be able to take on any Yonko at this point, but remember their goal is to get Sanji not defeat Big Mom.
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On September 08 2016 23:49 BlackMagister wrote:
The Strawhats shouldn't be able to take on any Yonko at this point, but remember their goal is to get Sanji not defeat Big Mom.
I don't get this. Do you really want some sort of filler arc?
All the fans whining about power levels - you do realize that there's so much shit left to go after the Yonku are done with? Why would you want to wait?
I blame MMOs for turning this generation into grinding addicts.
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On September 09 2016 10:26 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 23:49 BlackMagister wrote:
The Strawhats shouldn't be able to take on any Yonko at this point, but remember their goal is to get Sanji not defeat Big Mom. I don't get this. Do you really want some sort of filler arc? All the fans whining about power levels - you do realize that there's so much shit left to go after the Yonku are done with? Why would you want to wait? I blame MMOs for turning this generation into grinding addicts.
You do remember that including Sanji there are only five members out of nine of the Strawhat crew in the Totto Island arc? It's Luffy, Nami, Chopper, Brooke and captive Sanji. Luffy and company will not defeat Big Mom this arc totally, they will get some sort of win, but they won't cause a big defeat to her crew. Before the Totto Island arc started Luffy said getting Sanji was just a preparation for going to Wano then fighting Kaido.
The Strawhats will defeat a Yonko eventually, but it won't happen this arc. Pretty much summed up on this page and next with him saying "It's not like I'm gonna fight her." Of course Luffy goes against what he says and I wouldn't be surprised if Luffy does fight Big Mom, but he won't beat her.
http://mangapark.me/manga/one-piece/s3/c819/16
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On September 09 2016 10:26 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 23:49 BlackMagister wrote:
The Strawhats shouldn't be able to take on any Yonko at this point, but remember their goal is to get Sanji not defeat Big Mom. I don't get this. Do you really want some sort of filler arc? All the fans whining about power levels - you do realize that there's so much shit left to go after the Yonku are done with? Why would you want to wait? I blame MMOs for turning this generation into grinding addicts.
this whole arc has basically been about showing how much power a yonkou commands, they have yet to take out a single one of big moms fighters and have failed to be stealthy at all, the manga itself is setting up some clearly defined power levels, Luffy cant even take out Cracker
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On September 09 2016 10:26 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2016 23:49 BlackMagister wrote:
The Strawhats shouldn't be able to take on any Yonko at this point, but remember their goal is to get Sanji not defeat Big Mom. I don't get this. Do you really want some sort of filler arc? All the fans whining about power levels - you do realize that there's so much shit left to go after the Yonku are done with? Why would you want to wait? I blame MMOs for turning this generation into grinding addicts.
I actually want one piece to go slower and show us the years of the timeskip...
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On September 09 2016 19:23 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 10:26 Hyperbola wrote:On September 08 2016 23:49 BlackMagister wrote:
The Strawhats shouldn't be able to take on any Yonko at this point, but remember their goal is to get Sanji not defeat Big Mom. I don't get this. Do you really want some sort of filler arc? All the fans whining about power levels - you do realize that there's so much shit left to go after the Yonku are done with? Why would you want to wait? I blame MMOs for turning this generation into grinding addicts. I actually want one piece to go slower and show us the years of the timeskip...
That's not going to happen in the manga I don't think. Max are a few flashbacks separate to explain gaps that need to be filled.
On September 09 2016 12:00 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 10:26 Hyperbola wrote:On September 08 2016 23:49 BlackMagister wrote:
The Strawhats shouldn't be able to take on any Yonko at this point, but remember their goal is to get Sanji not defeat Big Mom. I don't get this. Do you really want some sort of filler arc? All the fans whining about power levels - you do realize that there's so much shit left to go after the Yonku are done with? Why would you want to wait? I blame MMOs for turning this generation into grinding addicts. You do remember that including Sanji there are only five members out of nine of the Strawhat crew in the Totto Island arc? It's Luffy, Nami, Chopper, Brooke and captive Sanji. Luffy and company will not defeat Big Mom this arc totally, they will get some sort of win, but they won't cause a big defeat to her crew. Before the Totto Island arc started Luffy said getting Sanji was just a preparation for going to Wano then fighting Kaido. The Strawhats will defeat a Yonko eventually, but it won't happen this arc. Pretty much summed up on this page and next with him saying "It's not like I'm gonna fight her." Of course Luffy goes against what he says and I wouldn't be surprised if Luffy does fight Big Mom, but he won't beat her. http://mangapark.me/manga/one-piece/s3/c819/16
Agreed. We have a pretty good idea why the Yonkous are Yonkous. This arc will be a total wipedown, except they will get back Sanji and then continue on with the Wano storyline. It wouldn't make sense to beat BigMom with half a crew. They may even not end up stealing the Poneglyph. But the way the Mirror-Mirror world works, it may end up working out.
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Power level fags are the worst.
You guys do realize that Luffy doesn't need to actually fight Big Mom to defeat her, right? There are many ways this arc can go down without it becoming a DBZ kamehameha shonen battle fest. For example: they could team up and fight Kaido together in the next arc. The Vinsmokes are the primary antagonists anyways.
Or we could get some classic shonen filler and spend 100 chapters doing some ninja training under a waterfall.
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EPT
