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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 09 2011 01:57 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 01:38 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
I think it's funny that the Lannisters have more men than all humans in middleearth had. Somehow that doesn't seem right :D
Just really weird proportions. The keep of the Starks seemed kinda small and they have 18000 men under their command? I mean the white city in LOTR had what, like 4000? :D They dont come from winterfell, Winterfell is the Capital of North with many keeps and strongholds held by the Bannermen of the Starks, like Umber or Karstark. And 18k is not the totaly number, they dont say it but some more banners are joining them as they march (obviously why would one march to winterfell from the southern regions just to go down the path again). What i find strange is that the Lannisters have so many. If you check a map their territory is 4 times smaller then the Starks's. But those army number are not very huge, some of the other major houses got around 50k. Compared to IRL, it's still nothing. Like in 1813 the battle of Liebtzig had 600k ++ soldiers fighthing. What i found stupid about ep 8 is that they made that God'swife women to look like a which from the tales. Like who the hell would trust their loved ones to her.
And as the Lannisters are the richest house they have to have the biggest army (they can afford it and they can hire sellswords) 
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On June 09 2011 01:47 alypse wrote:
mod edit: Don't spoil.
Edit: Eh, don't know why mod edited my post. I did not spoil anything at all. I did not read the books and things I said already happened in the show. Is it because of the picture???
I reported your post because the picture had a big spoiler in it. You didn't notice?
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On June 09 2011 02:03 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 01:42 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:On June 09 2011 01:33 Euronyme wrote:
I dunno I'm kind of disappointed. Watched the first episode and the first thing that happens: Fucking zombies killing everyone! I thought I was in for a treat.
The next 6 hours I'm just sitting there watching people talk talk talk talk, have sex, some more sex, speak about who they'll marry, talk while having sex and then chill out and eat meat.
I'll keep watching for sure, but I sure hope something more exciting/ epic happens.
So far I feel like it's been chilltown USA, even though admittedly sometimes someone gets pissed and does something marginally interesting. It's Mentalities like this, why good character driven dramas get cancelled. There is action but the heart of the show is in it's characters and the world they live in. When you exist in a world where you could die at any turn you will be hanging at the edge of your seat waiting to see which of your favorite characters will meet their demise. They have more actions scenes so far than sex. So why does everyone keep saying this show is so bad for all the sex? I just don't understand it, none of the sex scenes have been longer than a minute + Show Spoiler +except the lesbian scene episode 7? So what would you want, minimal talking while everyone just swings swords killing each other at least one death a minute? Ultra Violence? What do you want to see? I don't mind the sex scenes that much. I just see them as a lack of script in general. Seen Caligula? I didn't say that it was bad. I just said that the first 10 minutes were really cool and picked up some pace, and then it just fell flat down in tempo. What I'm saying is that the series to me feel somewhat uncut, and that there are alot of scenes that don't really bring anything new. I guess some people would say the same thing about lord of the rings, and I'd fucking rip their hearts out. I've never even heard about the books until I stumbled upon this thread. All I can judge from is the first 8 episodes.
It's funny that you talk about sex scenes when there were exactly 3 of them in the whole 7 episodes and they don't total more than 5 minutes total in length.
And the whole point of the first scene with zombies is to create tension. Have you ever watched Aliens? They barely ever show the slimy bastards. Instead the focus is on the tension that they create. Hence why it's one of the best thrillers ever made.
If I want to watch zombies gore people then I'll watch some crappy B movie.
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On June 09 2011 02:08 11cc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 01:47 alypse wrote:
mod edit: Don't spoil.
Edit: Eh, don't know why mod edited my post. I did not spoil anything at all. I did not read the books and things I said already happened in the show. Is it because of the picture??? I reported your post because the picture had a big spoiler in it. You didn't notice?
For a person who did not read the books there's nothing abnormal with that pic. But now that you have mentioned, then I figured it out.... I wish you did not mention it though TT
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You guys, Westereos is the size of Europe, if not bigger. The proportions are not at all oversized. LoTR was drastically undersized for it's size
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Well i guess the tv-production just doesn't live up to the proportions in the book.
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On June 09 2011 02:14 alypse wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 02:08 11cc wrote:On June 09 2011 01:47 alypse wrote:
mod edit: Don't spoil.
Edit: Eh, don't know why mod edited my post. I did not spoil anything at all. I did not read the books and things I said already happened in the show. Is it because of the picture??? I reported your post because the picture had a big spoiler in it. You didn't notice? For a person who did not read the books there's nothing abnormal with that pic. But now that you have mentioned, then I figured it out.... I wish you did not mention it though TT
I'm sorry man... you asked if the reason for the edit was the picture...
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On June 09 2011 01:24 OrchidThief wrote:
I think I might've missed it, but was one of those armies supposed to go fulfill Tyrions promise? So it's 18k vs 30k while another 30k is heading away? And the thing with letting the spy leave, was that because the spy had counted 20k and Robb thought that would be a good number to let Tywin know? (Since it leaves the impression that Robbs army is bigger than it is).
Tyrion promised gold and top quality weapons and armor, not troops to the hill tribes.
In ep8 they said Jamie defeated the river lords troops in battle and is now going to siege Riverrun while Tywin has his troops stationed elsewhere and when he finds out Robb started going southwards ordered his troops to go meet him.
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On June 09 2011 02:03 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 01:42 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:On June 09 2011 01:33 Euronyme wrote:
I dunno I'm kind of disappointed. Watched the first episode and the first thing that happens: Fucking zombies killing everyone! I thought I was in for a treat.
The next 6 hours I'm just sitting there watching people talk talk talk talk, have sex, some more sex, speak about who they'll marry, talk while having sex and then chill out and eat meat.
I'll keep watching for sure, but I sure hope something more exciting/ epic happens.
So far I feel like it's been chilltown USA, even though admittedly sometimes someone gets pissed and does something marginally interesting. It's Mentalities like this, why good character driven dramas get cancelled. There is action but the heart of the show is in it's characters and the world they live in. When you exist in a world where you could die at any turn you will be hanging at the edge of your seat waiting to see which of your favorite characters will meet their demise. They have more actions scenes so far than sex. So why does everyone keep saying this show is so bad for all the sex? I just don't understand it, none of the sex scenes have been longer than a minute + Show Spoiler +except the lesbian scene episode 7? So what would you want, minimal talking while everyone just swings swords killing each other at least one death a minute? Ultra Violence? What do you want to see? I don't mind the sex scenes that much. I just see them as a lack of script in general. Seen Caligula? I didn't say that it was bad. I just said that the first 10 minutes were really cool and picked up some pace, and then it just fell flat down in tempo. What I'm saying is that the series to me feel somewhat uncut, and that there are alot of scenes that don't really bring anything new. I guess some people would say the same thing about lord of the rings, and I'd fucking rip their hearts out. I've never even heard about the books until I stumbled upon this thread. All I can judge from is the first 8 episodes.
It would have sucked so hard if it was like the first 10 minutes for the entire series.
A secret good film producers, writers, musicians and artists know and take use of: To create drama you need tension, in order to show darkness you need to contrast it with light, and so on. Or else, what you end up with is a meaningless soup of mediocrity, like so many Hollywood action movies where nothing is shown to the audience but explosions and bad dialogue.
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I can understand how some people would have an issue understanding the scale of the story. A weak point of the show has been expressing travel times and population density appropriately, what with the teleporting ravens and what must be the world's fastest turnip cart.
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i just wanted to say that i liked the last episode so much - i decided not watch next weeks episode right away but instead go for a double feature the week after that 
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On June 09 2011 02:19 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Well i guess the tv-production just doesn't live up to the proportions in the book.
You can never capture the full experience, emotion, and people that your brain creates while reading a book from a TV version of said book.
It's also not an excuse to say, if we can't ever be perfect, then why bother trying. HBO really tries to make quality shows, and so far I'd say they've been succeeding. Anytime I see something on an HBO mini-series, I say to myself, hey, that will probably be good because HBO is behind it.
Will it be perfect? No
Does it have to be? No
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On June 09 2011 02:28 Special Endrey wrote:i just wanted to say that i liked the last episode so much - i decided not watch next weeks episode right away but instead go for a double feature the week after that
Not that bad of an idea since next weeks episode will very much likely let the people without book-knowledge athirst for the last episode.
I imagine the 1week-waiting-time will be "worst" up until now :D
Also you probably should stay away from this thread and every single page, be it facebook/twitter etc, because if not, you will ABSOLUTELY 100% get spoilered ^^
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I have not even read the books. I just thought the numbers and proportions mentioned in the series didn't seem realistic from what we could see in the show.
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On June 09 2011 02:23 11cc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 02:14 alypse wrote:On June 09 2011 02:08 11cc wrote:On June 09 2011 01:47 alypse wrote:
mod edit: Don't spoil.
Edit: Eh, don't know why mod edited my post. I did not spoil anything at all. I did not read the books and things I said already happened in the show. Is it because of the picture??? I reported your post because the picture had a big spoiler in it. You didn't notice? For a person who did not read the books there's nothing abnormal with that pic. But now that you have mentioned, then I figured it out.... I wish you did not mention it though TT I'm sorry man... you asked if the reason for the edit was the picture...
That's fine, and you're right, it's me who asked for it in the first place.
About the arguments about the size of the troops, I really don't think it's out of proportions if Westeros is as big as Europe, as some guy about mentioned. The thing that bugs me is that in the show, we have not seen any sign of an army that consists of tens of thousands of men. So far we only saw a lot of tents and a few Dothraki riders... I doubt if HBO will have the budget to erect huge battles like in LOTR.
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On June 09 2011 02:28 Pifualkd wrote:
I can understand how some people would have an issue understanding the scale of the story. A weak point of the show has been expressing travel times and population density appropriately, what with the teleporting ravens and what must be the world's fastest turnip cart.
To be fair, Ros said that she took the turnip cart down to White Harbor (not that far) and a ship from there (notably faster than a turnip cart).
And the teleporting ravens come down to the illusion that no time passes between two scenes, while in fact some of the episodes have covered more than a month.
Edit: if HBO could afford to use the same software as they used in Lotr, it wouldn't be that much of a difference to stage a battle with 5000 or 50000 soldiers (except in computer calculation and rendering time). The main cost is in having to build a detailed CGI landscape and integrating the live action elements, as well as building up a libary of animations and soldier models. If you have to use other techniques such as duplicating shots of 50 guys fighting, the cost would probably scale more with the amount of duplications as you would have to adjust every one of them manually.
What they will probably have to do is to have the battles in forests or hill-covered landscapes and use lots of close up shots so that you can't see the whole battle from each shot. I am looking forward to see what they will be able to do though.
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On June 09 2011 02:28 Pifualkd wrote:
I can understand how some people would have an issue understanding the scale of the story. A weak point of the show has been expressing travel times and population density appropriately, what with the teleporting ravens and what must be the world's fastest turnip cart.
I can't stop laughing ahahahahaha
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On June 09 2011 02:39 alypse wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 02:23 11cc wrote:On June 09 2011 02:14 alypse wrote:On June 09 2011 02:08 11cc wrote:On June 09 2011 01:47 alypse wrote:
mod edit: Don't spoil.
Edit: Eh, don't know why mod edited my post. I did not spoil anything at all. I did not read the books and things I said already happened in the show. Is it because of the picture??? I reported your post because the picture had a big spoiler in it. You didn't notice? For a person who did not read the books there's nothing abnormal with that pic. But now that you have mentioned, then I figured it out.... I wish you did not mention it though TT I'm sorry man... you asked if the reason for the edit was the picture... That's fine, and you're right, it's me who asked for it in the first place. About the arguments about the size of the troops, I really don't think it's out of proportions if Westeros is as big as Europe, as some guy about mentioned. The thing that bugs me is that in the show, we have not seen any sign of an army that consists of tens of thousands of men. So far we only saw a lot of tents and a few Dothraki riders... I doubt if HBO will have the budget to erect huge battles like in LOTR.
... You realize the battles in LOTR were done with computers, right?
P.S: I will be reporting everything posted in this thread that comes from the books, no exceptions. SO FUCKING STOP IT. DON'T POST YOUR BOOK KNOWLEDGE/LORE. STOP.
(this obviously isn't directed at the guy im quoting)
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On June 09 2011 02:11 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 02:03 Euronyme wrote:On June 09 2011 01:42 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:On June 09 2011 01:33 Euronyme wrote:
I dunno I'm kind of disappointed. Watched the first episode and the first thing that happens: Fucking zombies killing everyone! I thought I was in for a treat.
The next 6 hours I'm just sitting there watching people talk talk talk talk, have sex, some more sex, speak about who they'll marry, talk while having sex and then chill out and eat meat.
I'll keep watching for sure, but I sure hope something more exciting/ epic happens.
So far I feel like it's been chilltown USA, even though admittedly sometimes someone gets pissed and does something marginally interesting. It's Mentalities like this, why good character driven dramas get cancelled. There is action but the heart of the show is in it's characters and the world they live in. When you exist in a world where you could die at any turn you will be hanging at the edge of your seat waiting to see which of your favorite characters will meet their demise. They have more actions scenes so far than sex. So why does everyone keep saying this show is so bad for all the sex? I just don't understand it, none of the sex scenes have been longer than a minute + Show Spoiler +except the lesbian scene episode 7? So what would you want, minimal talking while everyone just swings swords killing each other at least one death a minute? Ultra Violence? What do you want to see? I don't mind the sex scenes that much. I just see them as a lack of script in general. Seen Caligula? I didn't say that it was bad. I just said that the first 10 minutes were really cool and picked up some pace, and then it just fell flat down in tempo. What I'm saying is that the series to me feel somewhat uncut, and that there are alot of scenes that don't really bring anything new. I guess some people would say the same thing about lord of the rings, and I'd fucking rip their hearts out. I've never even heard about the books until I stumbled upon this thread. All I can judge from is the first 8 episodes. It's funny that you talk about sex scenes when there were exactly 3 of them in the whole 7 episodes and they don't total more than 5 minutes total in length. And the whole point of the first scene with zombies is to create tension. Have you ever watched Aliens? They barely ever show the slimy bastards. Instead the focus is on the tension that they create. Hence why it's one of the best thrillers ever made. If I want to watch zombies gore people then I'll watch some crappy B movie.
Wow did you actually count them? FYI there are 3 in the first episode O.o
Right, but in the Alien films they are always aware of the alien, and it's what the film revolves around. That's what builds the tension.
The difference is that they basically live in parallel universes in game of thrones, and everyone seems to more or less live in the bliss of ignorance, which kind of defeats the tension in the long run. Imagine if the alien kept killing people on the space ship, and everyone kept blaming it on bird flue.. It wouldn't work out.
After 8 long episodes the zombies (or whatever they are) havn't even been mentioned afaik, and no one seems to care much about them.
I think the main reason to why I think this way is because you don't really see the beginning of a new era or anything. You just jump in in a fairly everyday scenario of the world.
This might be a bad correlation, but take lord of the rings for instance. You emmidiately get thrown into a new era, the war of the ring. I wouldn't mind if they dragged out the films with 10 extra hours of talking and having sex, talk about which cousin to marry etc as long as there's somewhat of a clear plot, direction or tension.
I havn't felt that involvement yet, even though admittedly the acting is quite good.
There are a couple of points I might be wrong in though ofcourse.
Maybe as someone stated earlier I'm just a mouth breathing retard who's the reason good shows are being put on hold though.
Maybe the show is just about to pick up it's pace and make me as a viewer feel more involved. How many episodes is it supposed to run on? I assume there's a set number as they apperantly mirror books. Knowing HBO I'd say around 20.
Last but not least; maybe it's supposed to be a realistic view of a fantasy world, in which we get a glimpse of how business in general was done there and then.
I'm sorry if I come off as a troll trying to create a debate, I merely see that the series have passionate followers, and I'd like to know what you know that makes it better than average.
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On June 09 2011 03:02 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 02:11 RajaF wrote:On June 09 2011 02:03 Euronyme wrote:On June 09 2011 01:42 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:On June 09 2011 01:33 Euronyme wrote:
I dunno I'm kind of disappointed. Watched the first episode and the first thing that happens: Fucking zombies killing everyone! I thought I was in for a treat.
The next 6 hours I'm just sitting there watching people talk talk talk talk, have sex, some more sex, speak about who they'll marry, talk while having sex and then chill out and eat meat.
I'll keep watching for sure, but I sure hope something more exciting/ epic happens.
So far I feel like it's been chilltown USA, even though admittedly sometimes someone gets pissed and does something marginally interesting. It's Mentalities like this, why good character driven dramas get cancelled. There is action but the heart of the show is in it's characters and the world they live in. When you exist in a world where you could die at any turn you will be hanging at the edge of your seat waiting to see which of your favorite characters will meet their demise. They have more actions scenes so far than sex. So why does everyone keep saying this show is so bad for all the sex? I just don't understand it, none of the sex scenes have been longer than a minute + Show Spoiler +except the lesbian scene episode 7? So what would you want, minimal talking while everyone just swings swords killing each other at least one death a minute? Ultra Violence? What do you want to see? I don't mind the sex scenes that much. I just see them as a lack of script in general. Seen Caligula? I didn't say that it was bad. I just said that the first 10 minutes were really cool and picked up some pace, and then it just fell flat down in tempo. What I'm saying is that the series to me feel somewhat uncut, and that there are alot of scenes that don't really bring anything new. I guess some people would say the same thing about lord of the rings, and I'd fucking rip their hearts out. I've never even heard about the books until I stumbled upon this thread. All I can judge from is the first 8 episodes. It's funny that you talk about sex scenes when there were exactly 3 of them in the whole 7 episodes and they don't total more than 5 minutes total in length. And the whole point of the first scene with zombies is to create tension. Have you ever watched Aliens? They barely ever show the slimy bastards. Instead the focus is on the tension that they create. Hence why it's one of the best thrillers ever made. If I want to watch zombies gore people then I'll watch some crappy B movie. Wow did you actually count them? FYI there are 3 in the first episode O.o Right, but in the Alien films they are always aware of the alien, and it's what the film revolves around. That's what builds the tension. The difference is that they basically live in parallel universes in game of thrones, and everyone seems to more or less live in the bliss of ignorance, which kind of defeats the tension in the long run. Imagine if the alien kept killing people on the space ship, and everyone kept blaming it on bird flue.. It wouldn't work out. After 8 long episodes the zombies (or whatever they are) havn't even been mentioned afaik, and no one seems to care much about them. I think the main reason to why I think this way is because you don't really see the beginning of a new era or anything. You just jump in in a fairly everyday scenario of the world. This might be a bad correlation, but take lord of the rings for instance. You emmidiately get thrown into a new era, the war of the ring. I wouldn't mind if they dragged out the films with 10 extra hours of talking and having sex, talk about which cousin to marry etc as long as there's somewhat of a clear plot, direction or tension. I havn't felt that involvement yet, even though admittedly the acting is quite good. There are a couple of points I might be wrong in though ofcourse. Maybe as someone stated earlier I'm just a mouth breathing retard who's the reason good shows are being put on hold though. Maybe the show is just about to pick up it's pace and make me as a viewer feel more involved. How many episodes is it supposed to run on? I assume there's a set number as they apperantly mirror books. Knowing HBO I'd say around 20. Last but not least; maybe it's supposed to be a realistic view of a fantasy world, in which we get a glimpse of how business in general was done there and then. I'm sorry if I come off as a troll trying to create a debate, I merely see that the series have passionate followers, and I'd like to know what you know that makes it better than average.
The first season is 10 episodes and covers the first book.
But, yea, I think the reason you are disappointed is that the first 10 minutes made you think this is a different kind of show than it actually is. The purpose of those minutes were to seed one important plot line that gets picked up later (and it does. People do talk about the white walkers and things beyond the wall in other episodes, and you did see zombies in episode 8. How could you miss that?). However, this is mainly a character driven show, and the title "Game of Thrones" signifies the main focus of the show more than those first 10 minutes.
Anyway, how fast did Lost develop in the first 2 seasons (40 episodes!)? Or many other tv series?
On June 09 2011 03:12 Pinkie wrote:
If there is somebody who understands how the battles in Episode 9(locations and such) are going to be fought, could they make a map showing the respective armies?
The map a couple posts up is beneficial for me realizing what this world actually looks like, but I'm not sure where exactly all these armies are since Jamie has one, Tywin another, and Rob another.
That would be slightly spoilerish / mention the books too much. PM'd you.
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