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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On May 30 2011 06:15 Shaithis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 17:54 zalz wrote:On May 29 2011 17:42 NB wrote: there are something i wanted to ask. the scene where the girl touch the dragon egg in the fire and didnt get burn. Is there supposed to be magic in this "world"? also does it mean she is a true "dragon" and her brother was adopted? There is magic in this fantasy world, that much should have been clear from the first episode. The series is considered fantasy but it's magical aspects are very underplayed and the focus is largely on the human interactions. When she said he wasn't a true dragon she doesn't mean her brother was adopted. She simply means that he wasn't a true Targaryn because by her definition Targaryens are great leaders whilst he was little more then an entitled child. The true dragon sentence is on the one hand a play on how he would constantly refer to himself when angry as "awakening the dragon" and on the other hand it's showing how low her opinion of him has become. This is not correct. She specifically said that "fire cannot harm a dragon." As seen before in the show, Daenerys herself has a very high resistance to heat. She knew what Drogo intended; her expectation was for her brother to be able to shrug it off (well, I think that part of her knew that he would not).
Euhm...no? Noone of that is right at all.
There is no known resistance to fire in the Targaryn line. Her brothers inability to deal with molten gold is not a sign of him lacking Targaryen blood, she didn't expect him to survive either. When Drogo does something she doesn't get much of say in the matter, she might have wanted to stop it but was in no position to even ask for it. He violated one of the very few dothraki laws and he was going to pay for it. Her trying to help him would have only made her loose symapthy in the khallasar.
When she says "he was no dragon" she simply meant it in a metaphorical sense. It is as much a claim about his heritage as it is a factuall statement about him infact not being a firebreathing lizard.
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On May 30 2011 07:18 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 06:15 Shaithis wrote:On May 29 2011 17:54 zalz wrote:On May 29 2011 17:42 NB wrote: there are something i wanted to ask. the scene where the girl touch the dragon egg in the fire and didnt get burn. Is there supposed to be magic in this "world"? also does it mean she is a true "dragon" and her brother was adopted? There is magic in this fantasy world, that much should have been clear from the first episode. The series is considered fantasy but it's magical aspects are very underplayed and the focus is largely on the human interactions. When she said he wasn't a true dragon she doesn't mean her brother was adopted. She simply means that he wasn't a true Targaryn because by her definition Targaryens are great leaders whilst he was little more then an entitled child. The true dragon sentence is on the one hand a play on how he would constantly refer to himself when angry as "awakening the dragon" and on the other hand it's showing how low her opinion of him has become. This is not correct. She specifically said that "fire cannot harm a dragon." As seen before in the show, Daenerys herself has a very high resistance to heat. She knew what Drogo intended; her expectation was for her brother to be able to shrug it off (well, I think that part of her knew that he would not). Euhm...no? Noone of that is right at all. There is no known resistance to fire in the Targaryn line. Her brothers inability to deal with molten gold is not a sign of him lacking Targaryen blood, she didn't expect him to survive either. When Drogo does something she doesn't get much of say in the matter, she might have wanted to stop it but was in no position to even ask for it. He violated one of the very few dothraki laws and he was going to pay for it. Her trying to help him would have only made her loose symapthy in the khallasar. When she says "he was no dragon" she simply meant it in a metaphorical sense. It is as much a claim about his heritage as it is a factuall statement about him infact not being a firebreathing lizard.
There's no indication that she was speaking metaphorically. It shows pretty explicitly earlier in the episode(or was it a different episode?) where she is not burned by the burning hot dragon egg that had been in the fire while it did burn her servant.
The show so far has showed there is something special about Daenarys, magical even, while there was nothing special about Viserys.
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In the TV series, she does have more fire resistance in the books. That is probably why there is a confusion. I can't really say more about that without spoiling anything.
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United States7166 Posts
On May 30 2011 07:18 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 06:15 Shaithis wrote:On May 29 2011 17:54 zalz wrote:On May 29 2011 17:42 NB wrote: there are something i wanted to ask. the scene where the girl touch the dragon egg in the fire and didnt get burn. Is there supposed to be magic in this "world"? also does it mean she is a true "dragon" and her brother was adopted? There is magic in this fantasy world, that much should have been clear from the first episode. The series is considered fantasy but it's magical aspects are very underplayed and the focus is largely on the human interactions. When she said he wasn't a true dragon she doesn't mean her brother was adopted. She simply means that he wasn't a true Targaryn because by her definition Targaryens are great leaders whilst he was little more then an entitled child. The true dragon sentence is on the one hand a play on how he would constantly refer to himself when angry as "awakening the dragon" and on the other hand it's showing how low her opinion of him has become. This is not correct. She specifically said that "fire cannot harm a dragon." As seen before in the show, Daenerys herself has a very high resistance to heat. She knew what Drogo intended; her expectation was for her brother to be able to shrug it off (well, I think that part of her knew that he would not). Euhm...no? Noone of that is right at all. There is no known resistance to fire in the Targaryn line. Her brothers inability to deal with molten gold is not a sign of him lacking Targaryen blood, she didn't expect him to survive either. When Drogo does something she doesn't get much of say in the matter, she might have wanted to stop it but was in no position to even ask for it. He violated one of the very few dothraki laws and he was going to pay for it. Her trying to help him would have only made her loose symapthy in the khallasar. When she says "he was no dragon" she simply meant it in a metaphorical sense. It is as much a claim about his heritage as it is a factuall statement about him infact not being a firebreathing lizard. I think the moment he threatened to kill her unborn child, he was dead to her
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Will there be a episode 8 on that HBO GO channel tonight?
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On May 30 2011 08:18 Pekkz wrote: Will there be a episode 8 on that HBO GO channel tonight?
From what I have read sadly there will not be
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On May 30 2011 06:15 Shaithis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 17:54 zalz wrote:On May 29 2011 17:42 NB wrote: there are something i wanted to ask. the scene where the girl touch the dragon egg in the fire and didnt get burn. Is there supposed to be magic in this "world"? also does it mean she is a true "dragon" and her brother was adopted? There is magic in this fantasy world, that much should have been clear from the first episode. The series is considered fantasy but it's magical aspects are very underplayed and the focus is largely on the human interactions. When she said he wasn't a true dragon she doesn't mean her brother was adopted. She simply means that he wasn't a true Targaryn because by her definition Targaryens are great leaders whilst he was little more then an entitled child. The true dragon sentence is on the one hand a play on how he would constantly refer to himself when angry as "awakening the dragon" and on the other hand it's showing how low her opinion of him has become. This is not correct. She specifically said that "fire cannot harm a dragon." As seen before in the show, Daenerys herself has a very high resistance to heat. She knew what Drogo intended; her expectation was for her brother to be able to shrug it off (well, I think that part of her knew that he would not).
Viserys constantly referred to himself as "the dragon" , especially when he got angry, she knew he would be killed by what Drogo did. The "fire cannot kill a dragon" part was showing how little she thought of her brother and that he was no dragon that he always called himself.
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On May 30 2011 08:59 Coolbeans wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 06:15 Shaithis wrote:On May 29 2011 17:54 zalz wrote:On May 29 2011 17:42 NB wrote: there are something i wanted to ask. the scene where the girl touch the dragon egg in the fire and didnt get burn. Is there supposed to be magic in this "world"? also does it mean she is a true "dragon" and her brother was adopted? There is magic in this fantasy world, that much should have been clear from the first episode. The series is considered fantasy but it's magical aspects are very underplayed and the focus is largely on the human interactions. When she said he wasn't a true dragon she doesn't mean her brother was adopted. She simply means that he wasn't a true Targaryn because by her definition Targaryens are great leaders whilst he was little more then an entitled child. The true dragon sentence is on the one hand a play on how he would constantly refer to himself when angry as "awakening the dragon" and on the other hand it's showing how low her opinion of him has become. This is not correct. She specifically said that "fire cannot harm a dragon." As seen before in the show, Daenerys herself has a very high resistance to heat. She knew what Drogo intended; her expectation was for her brother to be able to shrug it off (well, I think that part of her knew that he would not). Viserys constantly referred to himself as "the dragon" , especially when he got angry, she knew he would be killed by what Drogo did. The "fire cannot kill a dragon" part was showing how little she thought of her brother and that he was no dragon that he always called himself.
No no no no no, its said that their brother prince (Reigar(sp)) their older brother was the last dragon . Also in the book she says that was Viserys did was sacrilegious and there was no saving him .
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So I noticed a lot of people thought the show didn't speak enough about the backstory (which has a huge influence on the current settings) so I wrote up a general summary. Click the spoilers below (nothing is actually spoilered, but I'd recommend you read the books as it's more enjoyable that way)
+ Show Spoiler +Okay, so the continent of Westereos has a ton of history. The original people of the land were called the Children of the Forest, little is known about them, but they were very druidic and intune with nature. 12000 years prior to GoT the First Men arrive via a landbridge from another continent. They had engagements with the Children of the Forest and ended up fighting a bit. Eventually the two reached a truce and the First Men adopted the CotF gods (known as the Old Gods in GoT). They were at peace for 4000 years before the Others arrived. A massive war was fought between the two and eventually the Others were pushed back. The Nights Watch was formed and the Wall was erected. 6000 years prior to the GoT another group of men known as the Andals arrived. The Andals were more modern and fought against the First Men. The Andals eventually conquered the South (Dorne, The Reach, The Riverlands, The Vale, The Storm Lands, etc) but the First Men held onto the North. (Basically the current Stark lands.) The Andals brought with them their own gods, known as The Seven. Nearly every region had kings or a king at some period or another, and there are many famous figures dating from this era, but it's not directly important to the main story. 300 years before GoT a man named Aegon Targayen arrives at Dragonstone with his sisters and his dragons. They had fled from the land of Valyria, which had supposedely just been destroyed by something called The Doom. (Meoter, tsunami, earthquake, etc, no one knows) Aegon invades Westereos and conquerers The Stormlands, The Crownlands, The Reach The Vale, The Westerlands, The Iron Islands, and The North. (Pretty much everywhere besides Dorne.) He abolishes all the kings and proclaims himself ruler and establishes the Targayen line. For the next 285 years the Targayens rule. They mostly inter-marry (sister with brother.) There are a great many figures of this period who are hereos and many wars (Aemon the Dragonknight, Baelor the Blessed, Maegor the Cruel, Dance of the Dragons, etc) but again, they are not directly related the current scene. The last dragons die 150 years after Aegon arrives, and Dorne is incorporated to the Kingdom via marriage 200 years after.
THE IMPORTANT PART 15 years before GoT is when a huge shift in power begins. The current Targayen King is Aerys II (called the Mad King, as he was generally insane). He is wed to his sister, and has two children (Rhaegar, his heir, and Viserys). His wife is expecting a 3rd. Rhaegar is married to Elia of Dorne (the sister of the ruler of Dorne), and has two children (Rhaeynes, and Aegon) Robert Baratheon is heir to Storms End. He is being fostered at the Eyrie (in the vale) with the Vales current ruler: Jon Arryn. Robert is betrothed to Eddard's sister Lyanna. Also being fostered with him is Eddard Stark who is the 2nd son of the current Lord of Winterfell: Rickard. (The first son being Brandon). Brandon is also betrothed to Catelyn Tully. Tywin Lannister is acting as Aerys II's Hand of the King. (Jaime, Cersei, Robert, Eddard, Catelyn are all young adults at this point)
The action starts when Jaime Lannister becomes a member of the Kingsguard. Tywin is enraged by this, and resigns as the Hand of the King. (The replacement is irrelavent) A tournament is staged in Jaime's honor.
Every major lord is at the tournament, as it is a big deal. The winner of the tournament is the Crown-Prince Rhaegar. However, in a stunning suprise he names Lyanna Stark queen of beauty and not his own wife. (Tournament winners usually named whoever they thought the most beautiful lady at the tournament upon winning)
This is obviously a huge scandal, but it gets even bigger when Rhaegar and Lyanna vanish. Everyone assumes he's kidnapped her, and Rickard and Brandon Stark ride for Kings Landing. Upon arriving there, they confront Aerys II only to be executed. (The manner of execution is very important and revealed later on, so I will not spoil it). After executing them, Aerys II demands Robert and Eddard (now Lord of Winterfell) be brought to Kings Landing. Jon Arryn refuses, and calls his bannermen.
So basically it's the start of war. Certain houses and lords joining each side. (Starks+Tullys+Baratheons+Arryns) vs (Targayen+Tyrell+Martell). The Lannisters initially remain silent in the war. Fighting breaks out, and there are various victories for each side, but the climax comes at The Battle of the Trident. There, the armies of Robert and Rhaegar clash. It's supposedely the fierciest fight the lands seen in forever, etc but in the end Robert kills Rhaegar and the Targayen host is routed. Robert's army proceeds south towards Kings Landing.
At this time the Lannister host becomes active and goes to King's Landing. On the premise of being on the Targayen side they are let in by an individual. Once inside they begin to sack the city. Aerys II orders Jaime (who is now a member of his kingsguard) to kill his father Tywin, but Jaime instead kills Aerys II (earning him the title of Kingslayer). Rhaegar's wife and children are all murdered. The murderers are a spoiler so I won't say who.
Eddard arrives at the city and declares it in Robert's name. Viserys and Aerys II's pregnant wife are smuggled to Dragonstone. There, she dies giving birth to Daenarys. Daenarys and Viserys are then smuggled across the sea.
Eddard goes south looking for his sister and discovers she is being guarded by 3 members of the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy. (2 of these guard, Gerold Hightower, and Arthur Dayne, are really big herioc figures.) Eddard and his men defeat them, but they cannot save Lyanna. (Meaning she dies.) Before she dies, she makes Ned promise her something. It's a spoiler.
In the aftermath of the war, Robert weds Cersei and is declared King. Ned marrys his now dead brother's betrothed, Catelyn Tully, and returns to winterfell. Jon Arryn is named as the Hand of the King and is wed to Catelyn's sister Lysa. Tywin returns to Casterely Rock. Storms End is granted to Roberts brother Renly. Dragonstone is granted to his other brother Stannis. Viserys and Daenarys are now across the sea.
There is more information obviously, but this is just a quick summary.
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Ty 1eris1, that was very interesting!
So many names, its very confusing for one who hasn't read the books ^^
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Indeed, thanks Eris, that was enjoyable to read.
I can't help but feel that the plot before the books take place is far more epic than the books
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that was amazing. So pumped for next episode.
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On May 30 2011 10:19 XenOmega wrote: So many names, its very confusing for one who hasn't read the books ^^
I hear that man.
So can't wait for the next one after that awesome episode.
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God damn.... I'm so mad. Tonight is episode 7?
I saw that shit on wednesday.... Marathoned the whole show now I have to wait 2 weeks for episode 8. Damn you leaks!
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On May 30 2011 11:19 CurLy[] wrote:God damn.... I'm so mad. Tonight is episode 7? I saw that shit on wednesday.... Marathoned the whole show now I have to wait 2 weeks for episode 8. Damn you leaks!  It wasn't a leak really, HBO released episode 7 early on HBOGo.
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omg just watched the end of episode 7. wwwhaaat the fuuccck, shit just got real.
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GoT's attempt to hide exposition by throwing in random sex scenes is starting to feel a little insulting. -_-
"Well guys. Looks like Littlefinger is going to be talking about his backstory for almost a full minute. That is clearly going to be too boring for our audience. What are we going to do about it?" "Lesbians" "Genius"
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On May 30 2011 13:01 LTT wrote: GoT's attempt to hide exposition by throwing in random sex scenes is starting to feel a little insulting. -_-
"Well guys. Looks like Littlefinger is going to be talking about his backstory for almost a full minute. That is clearly going to be too boring for our audience. What are we going to do about it?" "Lesbians" "Genius"
lol. I was likeing littlefingers character until he pulled that shit.
+ Show Spoiler +Who backstabs Boromir, honestly =D
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I think in that particular sexposition scene, the sex complemented LF's speech quite well. Just like the brothel's customers know that the whores are faking it, LF's 'allies' know he's an untrustworthy serpent (and blatantly so), but puts them at ease and slowly makes them forget his nature.
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