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[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1227

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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed.
Wolfstan
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada605 Posts
June 05 2014 00:08 GMT
#24521
I think Varys(most likely), the grandma, or Littlefinger would save Tyrion. Is there anything Tyrion needs to do yet that would give him plot armor?

I know we did this earlier with Joffrey, but who is in line for the Vale after Robin?
EG - ROOT - Gambit Gaming
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10665 Posts
June 05 2014 00:11 GMT
#24522
Tyrion is done for. What else can he do to contribute to this show? I dont see any whatsoever. RIP man.
Skol
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10665 Posts
June 05 2014 00:16 GMT
#24523
On June 05 2014 00:47 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 00:37 Acertos wrote:
The guy in the show was competing for strongest man on earth he is 2m5 tall and weights 190kg. It is the best you could expect for an actor and the fight was aw.esome


I've got a different feelings, Oberyn was skilled enough to kill the strongest man in Westeros, even tho he has died, I think he could easily beat mountain without his revenge obsession, just with clear mind, so we can put him somewhere in the top of duelist. But personally I would like to see more combats with him, to be sure, but the story with Khal Drogo repeats again, those dothraki was very strong in theory and by storyline, bot on our show we saw pretty much nothing about his skills :/

With a clear mind, I dont think anyone would have the wits about them to ever challenge a duel with the mountain. Bronn said it best himself, "One slip, and Im done for."

His thirst for vengeance is what ushered him to even have the nerve to call out the Mountain, and turns it was his ultimate undoing in the end too.
Skol
Dunmer
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom568 Posts
June 05 2014 00:26 GMT
#24524
On June 05 2014 09:08 Wolfstan wrote:
I think Varys(most likely), the grandma, or Littlefinger would save Tyrion. Is there anything Tyrion needs to do yet that would give him plot armor?

I know we did this earlier with Joffrey, but who is in line for the Vale after Robin?

I doubt plot armour is a concept in Game of Thrones
All Ireland Starcraft, check us out on Facebook
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44195 Posts
June 05 2014 00:30 GMT
#24525
On June 05 2014 09:08 Wolfstan wrote:
I think Varys(most likely), the grandma, or Littlefinger would save Tyrion. Is there anything Tyrion needs to do yet that would give him plot armor?

I know we did this earlier with Joffrey, but who is in line for the Vale after Robin?

We don't know. Not Littlefinger though, most likely one of the related houses in the Vale.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
June 05 2014 00:46 GMT
#24526
Dany is the only char with clear plot armor IMO
Useless wet fish.
Zozo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil2579 Posts
June 05 2014 00:48 GMT
#24527
Sir pounce is the only one with plot armor, clearly
EGM guides me
Shock710
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia6097 Posts
June 05 2014 00:59 GMT
#24528
can people please spoiler those huge images especially when quoting them
dAPhREAk gives Shock a * | [23:55] <Shock710> that was out of context -_- [16:26] <@motbob> Good question, Shock!
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24143 Posts
June 05 2014 01:04 GMT
#24529
On June 05 2014 08:46 ZenithM wrote:
Oberyn was just the coolest dude on the show for the whole time he was on. What a cool dude.
Really good performance by Pedro Pascal.


I love when shows like these elevate talented actors that otherwise would never have reached such popularity. I guarantee he will get a major role coming off of this season. Same goes for Tyrion. Hopefully he'll be sticking around a bit longer. While trying to avoid a sexist joke I imagined Dinklage replacing Hugh Grant in his movies and got a good laugh...
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-05 01:19:24
June 05 2014 01:16 GMT
#24530
On June 05 2014 09:48 Zozo wrote:
Sir pounce is the only one with plot armor, clearly

Hodor
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11584 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-05 01:21:21
June 05 2014 01:17 GMT
#24531
On June 05 2014 09:26 Dunmer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 09:08 Wolfstan wrote:
I think Varys(most likely), the grandma, or Littlefinger would save Tyrion. Is there anything Tyrion needs to do yet that would give him plot armor?

I know we did this earlier with Joffrey, but who is in line for the Vale after Robin?

I doubt plot armour is a concept in Game of Thrones

Plot armour is a dumb concept from the outset. There is a limited use for the term, but the way it get's bandied about it would be appear most people have an expectation when reading/ viewing, that a story go through 30 'main characters,' each maybe lasting a chapter/ episode before they die. Unless they drop like flies: plot armour. blah.
Moderator5000 of our finest Taliban warriors have been released! Rise up my brothers. Mashalla! al-Donald ibn-Frederick al-Masih allows it.
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
June 05 2014 01:18 GMT
#24532
Imo tyrion won't die. His plot armor way too thick. Especially now with oberyn out of the picture, might as well not even show kings landing in the show without tyrion. My guess is Jaime helps him to escape somehow and he pretty much becomes a wanderer.
133 221 333 123 111
karazax
Profile Joined May 2010
United States3737 Posts
June 05 2014 01:46 GMT
#24533
On June 05 2014 10:18 GenesisX wrote:
Imo tyrion won't die. His plot armor way too thick. Especially now with oberyn out of the picture, might as well not even show kings landing in the show without tyrion. My guess is Jaime helps him to escape somehow and he pretty much becomes a wanderer.


If he is wandering, how does that help kings landing scenes?
Assault_1
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1950 Posts
June 05 2014 01:53 GMT
#24534
On June 05 2014 10:18 GenesisX wrote:
Imo tyrion won't die. His plot armor way too thick. Especially now with oberyn out of the picture, might as well not even show kings landing in the show without tyrion. My guess is Jaime helps him to escape somehow and he pretty much becomes a wanderer.

he cant even disguise himself and go into hiding, hes like 3 feet tall and obvious as fuck
hai2u
Profile Joined September 2011
688 Posts
June 05 2014 01:53 GMT
#24535
Danerys has 100% plot armor until she reaches Westeros.
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
June 05 2014 02:52 GMT
#24536
I wish I had plot armor.
Zooper31
Profile Joined May 2009
United States5713 Posts
June 05 2014 02:58 GMT
#24537
I'm betting on Varys saving him before execution and smuggling him out of the city. He was asked at the trial if he remembers who saved the city and he said he would never forget.

I can't think of anything else he needs to do really though in the show. He's the only one who believes in the Nights Watch and would probably be a voice of reason to give them all the support they are going to need from Kings Landing. Other than that honestly idk.
Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9175 Posts
June 05 2014 03:23 GMT
#24538
I'd be much more concerned about Tyrion if they hadn't announced his execution. No way they're announcing killing off a major character one episode and then doing it the next. Him getting help to escape and being killed once we think he's safe would be far more GoT style.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-05 04:06:21
June 05 2014 04:01 GMT
#24539
On June 04 2014 18:32 sc4k wrote:
This is what my mate (v experienced blunt weapons duellist, professional re-enactor) has written about fighting the mountain with a spear:

Show nested quote +

The mountain weighs 30 stone of muscle. Which means if he connects... you die. Simple as. But the Red Viper is armed with a long spear, which he famously knows how to use exceptionally well.

Real outcome: Mountain dies in first seven seconds of engagement.

Spear thrusts to feet, hamstring, fist, then moving past him to finish the job with the spear in the back of the neck

they never show thrusts to feet and hands in film as it dosn't look cool. But seriously... spear guy duels sword guy... spear guy stabs hands and feet. Pinprick raids that stop the enemy from fighting too hard.

Also, The Mountain is wearing some kind of wierd maille and leather plates affair. This, in a time where steel plate exists is like hanging a sign around your neck saying 'kill me now'.

Bigman has a massive sword, that's really cool, butsits balance is mega off whack. Yeah you might be the strongest motherfucker out there, but balance works in weird ways. Bend the spear around his guard and just take him apart piece by piece.


I love asking him about this sort of stuff. I have seen him destroy people with a spear (it's his weapon of choice). It's hilarious how easily he can hit people's necks from a long range.

Pic of him for reference
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


Thanks mate! This is a great post. The power of spears should not be underestimated. Even in actual ancient and medieval eras, they're good for individual combat, and godly in battle fronts. Good one of the ways Alexander the Great basically conquered everyone, with sarissas and the Macedonian phalanx formation.

On June 04 2014 18:34 Amui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2014 17:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On June 04 2014 17:19 Amui wrote:
On June 04 2014 15:38 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On June 04 2014 14:47 MattBarry wrote:
On June 04 2014 13:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Oberyn is quite literally the classic movie villain. Talk your ass off until the other guy has a chance to escape or strike back. He should have killed Gregor right then and there.

My reaction to Oberyn's demise:


On June 04 2014 05:39 Snotling wrote:
Huge dude without a shield? Just let any half skilled archer do the job and be don with it^^

What other people said, but also, no shield? Just fucking stick him and be done with it. The advantage of spears and halberds is their reach.
Gregor is a poor swordsman regardless. He swings through with every single attack, a great way to leave yourself open.

Also, what the Mountain has in the strength of his strikes, he lacks in their speed. An armored fighter with a shield could parry his blows (he telegraphs them so much), and then thrust at him.

An average sized person would probably have his arm broken from the impact of the Mountain's massive sword hitting his shield. The dude is 420 pounds of muscle, he's basically a half-ogre.

Yeah, the Mountain is a rare super heavyweight. I imagine the Mountain is supposed to be a skilled fighter for something other than his size (we haven't seen that in the show, so idk). But regardless, here's a few things to consider. The dampening of kinetic energy that armor and shields have is significant. Given the slow speed of his blows though (this is important to take into account), I doubt it would crush someone shielded and armored arm, especially if they block properly, it would stagger them though. Also, it's hard to tell because the camera jumps around a lot but the Mountain looks like he swings his sword a lot more sluggishly and "club-like" than any other characters.

More importantly, the point of parrying is not to take a blow, but to actively deflect it, a classic medieval tactic of opening a clean window to strike your opponent. You're not just meeting the strike when it's low in force, but putting your own force to deflect it as well. If you've ever done any boxing/fighting, hits aren't even a fraction as hard when you aren't struck at the full extension of a punch.
Could all of this be effective against the Mountain? If he's as slow and as unskilled as in the show, then probably. If the Mountain was a sharp and swift fighter, not at all.

But in any case, that's a moot point. The terrible slowness and poor swordsmanship of the Mountain in the show (he looks like an oaf that got handed a sword) against the reach of a spear and a fast and very skilled spearman practically makes Oberyn an easy winner. A "realistic" fight even if they both had their gear as shown in the show would have been a no-contest. With that said, however, in a "realistic" fight, the Mountain would probably be smart enough to use a large tower shield (think of the Roman scutum).

Well that is a 66 inch blade(according to the making of), the spear doesn't have a huge range advantage like it does against short/medium sized swords. Granted there is the leverage and speed advantage, but the mountain swings as fast as most people would swing it with both hands(in full armor too), and if you get caught with him having both hands on the blade, you're probably a dead man shield or not.

I would agree though that the mountain actor looked a bit unskilled with a sword, although I'm not sure how much of it was due to having to wield a greatsword in one hand because lore. I'd wager a fair number of people couldn't swing it as fast with 2 hands as he could with one, it's 5-8lbs(according to my google skills). In practice he would probably slaughter most swordsman before they could close simply because he can swing that thing with so much force he'd cleave people in half through a shield while retaining a massive range advantage, and he has the reach to even make people with spears think twice.

The blade is 66 inches? Jesus.. I was thinking more along the lines of actual medieval greatswords where the blade only topped at 40-50ish inches like Zweihanders and Claymores, which were apparently even usable against halberdier lines.

Just as an experiment, for everybody to try, grab a rod that's fairly light, hang 5lbs somewhere between 28 and 30inches(where the balance of the greatsword would probably be), and then try to lift it with one hand(I couldn't lift it, not enough wrist strength). That's pretty much the absolute minimum that thing would weigh(even as a realistic prop sword). Now imagine how strong somebody would have to be to swing that thing around with one hand.


Well the 5 lbs would have to be distributed across, but I've handed actual blades but the blade itself wasn't like 30-40 inches so it was still at a point that's pretty easy to handle. I don't have a long rod, or else I'd love to try your experiment to simulate REALLY long blades . Crazy medieval Scots and Germans and Gregor aside, there really is no need for a sword that large. It's unwieldly even if you are very strong. If you want a long weapon, halberds and short spears tend to work better imo.

On June 05 2014 12:23 Scarecrow wrote:
I'd be much more concerned about Tyrion if they hadn't announced his execution. No way they're announcing killing off a major character one episode and then doing it the next. Him getting help to escape and being killed once we think he's safe would be far more GoT style.

He escaped execution at the Vale due to trial by combat, but he didn't here. Maybe there will be something else to save him? It's hard to say, but some people or at least Jaime certainly don't want him dead by any means. Maybe with his authority as commander of the Kingsguard he can do something, but we'll see.

Also, Tyrion is the one "voice of reason" character in the show. Killing him would break the show worse than almost any other character dying.
Sverigevader
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden388 Posts
June 05 2014 04:03 GMT
#24540
On June 05 2014 10:53 Assault_1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2014 10:18 GenesisX wrote:
Imo tyrion won't die. His plot armor way too thick. Especially now with oberyn out of the picture, might as well not even show kings landing in the show without tyrion. My guess is Jaime helps him to escape somehow and he pretty much becomes a wanderer.

he cant even disguise himself and go into hiding, hes like 3 feet tall and obvious as fuck


The enemy of my enemy is my friend. He could get help from people who might have the same dislike as him towards his father/sister. Or perhaps I'm way off.
"I can answer this, you're just a god damn sexy mofo." http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147829&currentpage=7#139
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