EPTStar Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi - Page 24
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Spoilers for the film are in this thread, read at your own peril if you have not seen the movie. No more spoiler tags from page 20 | ||
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Jimmy Raynor
902 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14073 Posts
On December 21 2017 02:33 Jimmy Raynor wrote: Can someone with more knowledge of the lore on the new trilogy explain this - at the beginning of ep. 7 was the republic ruling the galaxy or not? If it was - even after the use of the super weapon by the first order, why is the rebel force in ep.8 made of few hundred people instead of the might of the whole galaxy sending forces to destroy the first order? Well You're in luck because the new trilogy never expresses this says anything about the state of the universe and TLJ further muddies the galaxy by adding in vaugeries and doubt onto everything. If you want to know about the galaxy you have to go into the video games comics books and TV shows because keeping track of basic interstellar politics is for kids and not adults. I put the soft cannon explanation to the universe in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler + And this soft cannon universe says yes... kinda. The Empire surrenders after the battle of jakku and the new republic presumably takes control of everything the empire didn't cart off to "the unknown regions". However beacuse jabba the hut was killed the republic isn't the only thing looking to fill the obvious vacuum and they never really get up on their feet with squabbles of quasi empire loyalists who want a centralized government and the former resistance sympathizers who want a demilitarized galaxy like the old days. So when the republics core worlds are gutted the government falls like a house of cards and presumably the first order walks over to take back the galaxy having more fire power then the cartels and an actual military to take the former new republic worlds. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
The Resistance (who get called Rebels a lot in TLJ because reasons) were a separate group Leia led that was essentially an unsanctioned military offshoot of The Republic, designed to combat the imperial remnants they were sure would be up to no good. None of this is explained at all in the movies. And despite TLJ happening about 24 hours of calendar time after The Force Awakens, the Resistance has also been pretty much annihilated by the time it starts (especially once Poe sticks his fingers in). | ||
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
Flynn and Rose kept failing and were entirely useless, you could've removed them from the movie and nothing would've changed. Same goes for Poe after his X-wing rampage from the opening act. Throne room fight was cool I guess. Luke being a miserable old man who was supposed to be this legend just made me miserable. Got my hopes up during his stare down with the AT-ATs, was kinda disappointed. Thought the Kung Fu Panda showdown with the cannon boats near the end of the second movie was more climatic. Skywalker dies alone, he deserved better than this. After decades of conflict (and waiting for sequels), we're back to where we started. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9267 Posts
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
I only find the Rey x Kylo, telepathic scenes a little weird. They could have done more, like in the mind or something. And not too literal talking. Just hoping whoever writes the third will have the balls to let the bad guys kill some good guys. what do you mean? kylo just stabbed his father with a light saber in TFA, Luke just went immortal mode (good as dead) , 90% of the main rebellion is dead. In the orig trilogy, not even one main good guy died. | ||
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thePunGun
598 Posts
On December 21 2017 05:52 riotjune wrote: Saw it this morning, can't say I liked it. Flynn and Rose kept failing and were entirely useless, you could've removed them from the movie and nothing would've changed. Same goes for Poe after his X-wing rampage from the opening act. Throne room fight was cool I guess. Luke being a miserable old man who was supposed to be this legend just made me miserable. Got my hopes up during his stare down with the AT-ATs, was kinda disappointed. Thought the Kung Fu Panda showdown with the cannon boats near the end of the second movie was more climatic. Skywalker dies alone, he deserved better than this. After decades of conflict (and waiting for sequels), we're back to where we started. The best thing about The Last Jedi is that Finn and Rose fail miserably, because this movie breaks all Star Wars rules. It's not some dumb luck plan saving our heroes, it's Luke, who steps in as their last hope. Skywalker's death could not have been more heroic, he chose to sacrifice himself so the Resistance could live. And on his way out we get a beautiful shot of another binary sunset, come on it doesn't get any better than that. | ||
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Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
Still better than TFA and every prequel so there's that at least. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On December 21 2017 08:43 shin_toss wrote: watched the movie during the first day and first screening. Probably the best one I liked. A modern star wars on its own story. I liked TFA too but after several times watching it, theres, too much fan service and similarity to the orig trilogy. I liked TLJ more. 9/10 for me. Tried to nitpick after the movie and I only found very few. I only find the Rey x Kylo, telepathic scenes a little weird. They could have done more, like in the mind or something. And not too literal talking. what do you mean? kylo just stabbed his father with a light saber in TFA, Luke just went immortal mode (good as dead) , 90% of the main rebellion is dead. In the orig trilogy, not even one main good guy died. Well Han Solo was not main at all in TFA, just like Leia and Luke. | ||
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levelping
Singapore759 Posts
On December 21 2017 13:23 palexhur wrote: Well Han Solo was not main at all in TFA, just like Leia and Luke. Well the original comment was "kill some good guys" and not "main good guys". While I agree that I think Finn should have been allowed to die (Rose saving and then kissing him, is one of the weak points of TLJ), TLJ shows rebels dying by the bucket loads, and some in pretty impactful ways too. You do get a sense that a lot of people are dying here, rather than just disposable clone army versus robots. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
Theres a ton of stuff that bugs me, -leia flying through space just looked bad and i think isnt good for the story -the connection between kylo and rey in the end, even tho this was mediated by snoke (who then died...) -snoke's death and who he was (hopefully this is explained in the next movie) -the lighspeed crash...while looks beautiful it didnt make sense, why dont they just do that all the time why dont the bombers just do that...why doesnt every battle just end with the loser going fuck this everyone lightspeed into them! This idea i thought wouldnt work because of the shields but w/e...like maybe the reaction is to powerup the shields to 100% on the point of contact and just block it but the empire of snokes ship which is probably the most advance and powerful couldnt do anything against it. -reys parents, my sister is conviced that kylo is lying to her to show that hes the only one that will care for her but the way its presented where kylo lets rey come to the conclusion on her own feels off for a lie -Fin and rose completely pointless...i really like Fin in TFA i dont like rose at all, not because shes asian or fat or w/e (tho i think thats why they picked her) but because all her scenes are just cringy...didnt they learn from 1,2,3 that the forced romance just doesnt work...what a stupid forced kiss -bb-8 is overpowered as hell (yeah R2D2 is broken as hell but at least the excuse can be made he was built by anakin who constantly reminds us of how much of a god he is) isnt bb-8 just some standard droid -Theres alot of talk about kylo's potential and the anakin bloodline but tbh we havnt seen any of that outside of the blaster catch (which was fucken awesome) didnt see anything special in TLJ tho  they seemed very clumsy fighting the redguards or at least could have used more force powers like chucking them into the razor pit that killed that one guard or force pulling someone into the light saber, the scene was cool but i think it could have been better)- The CGI when Rey is explaining the force looked super shit with those plants...minor issue but w/e -The sith pit was completely useless and didnt seem dangerous at all for how luke was scared -No third lesson...seriously this combined with luke saying "see you later kid" and dying seems to say they really wanted luke dead in this ep and forced it in. -Knights of Ren....wtf can we please have them they looked so cool and hyped during the TLA flashback -Ackbar died....offscreen T_T-Why didnt the purple haired commander tell them the plan, leia admits that they knew about the hyperspeed tracking on the main cruiser so its not a mole, so why hide the plan???? how does the girl who is connected to poe and has a job on the bridge not know about this plan and tell poe (btw thats carries daughter!) tldr felt like fanservice was considered first then story fitted around | ||
TheEmulator
28095 Posts
I'm not against her randomly using the force on accident, her bloodline is incredibly strong. But this is shit Luke/Vader wouldn't have been able to do  | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On December 21 2017 16:39 TheEmulator wrote: tbh I think it's fine to include some sort of random deus ex machina crap to save Leia, but the way they did it was just really bad. It looked funny as fuck, and as far as we know that's like the most high level usage of the force we've ever seen and it's from someone who again, as far as we know is only force sensitive. I'm not against her randomly using the force on accident, her bloodline is incredibly strong. But this is shit Luke/Vader wouldn't have been able to do Nah rey moves like 50+ rocks without any struggle on her face seems to be the most broken power, freaken sidious moved senate chairs one by one at yoda and the dude is the clumination of the rule of 2. Moments like leia moving through space are like for the sake of a twist, like everyone expects leia to die because of the actor and while its a shame everyone kinda understands the necessity of it considering the situation, and so long as it is tactful people are gonna give you a pass for killing her off. The fans understand that, instead it feels like the director thought of this but wanted to play on that and have a twist that she lives based on that (if you really wanted her to live she wouldnt be on the command deck or it wouldnt have exploded and sent her out to space) But no th director deliberately wanted that turn of events where she lives for the sake of it, so it comes out looking weird and crude. It feels like that alot of the times in the movie with the thief oh hes an asshole oh he is good oh back to being an asshole and the end where u think he is in the walker nope its bb8...com'on man can just tell the story first then have fanservice fit in rather than fit a story around fan service and twists and w/e random scenes you thought of in the shower | ||
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TheEmulator
28095 Posts
edit: idk if moving those rocks is that much more impressive than Luke moving his ship from Yoda's swamp if we ignore that Rey has no training. | ||
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levelping
Singapore759 Posts
On December 21 2017 16:03 Shock710 wrote: Seen it twice now, first with friends who arent super starwars fans and then again with my sister who is a mega starwars fan. Both were disappointed considering the hype around it Theres a ton of stuff that bugs me, -leia flying through space just looked bad and i think isnt good for the story -the connection between kylo and rey in the end, even tho this was mediated by snoke (who then died...) -snoke's death and who he was (hopefully this is explained in the next movie) -the lighspeed crash...while looks beautiful it didnt make sense, why dont they just do that all the time why dont the bombers just do that...why doesnt every battle just end with the loser going fuck this everyone lightspeed into them! This idea i thought wouldnt work because of the shields but w/e...like maybe the reaction is to powerup the shields to 100% on the point of contact and just block it but the empire of snokes ship which is probably the most advance and powerful couldnt do anything against it. -reys parents, my sister is conviced that kylo is lying to her to show that hes the only one that will care for her but the way its presented where kylo lets rey come to the conclusion on her own feels off for a lie -Fin and rose completely pointless...i really like Fin in TFA i dont like rose at all, not because shes asian or fat or w/e (tho i think thats why they picked her) but because all her scenes are just cringy...didnt they learn from 1,2,3 that the forced romance just doesnt work...what a stupid forced kiss -bb-8 is overpowered as hell (yeah R2D2 is broken as hell but at least the excuse can be made he was built by anakin who constantly reminds us of how much of a god he is) isnt bb-8 just some standard droid -Theres alot of talk about kylo's potential and the anakin bloodline but tbh we havnt seen any of that outside of the blaster catch (which was fucken awesome) didnt see anything special in TLJ tho they seemed very clumsy fighting the redguards or at least could have used more force powers like chucking them into the razor pit that killed that one guard or force pulling someone into the light saber, the scene was cool but i think it could have been better)- The CGI when Rey is explaining the force looked super shit with those plants...minor issue but w/e -The sith pit was completely useless and didnt seem dangerous at all for how luke was scared -No third lesson...seriously this combined with luke saying "see you later kid" and dying seems to say they really wanted luke dead in this ep and forced it in. -Knights of Ren....wtf can we please have them they looked so cool and hyped during the TLA flashback -Ackbar died....offscreen T_T-Why didnt the purple haired commander tell them the plan, leia admits that they knew about the hyperspeed tracking on the main cruiser so its not a mole, so why hide the plan???? how does the girl who is connected to poe and has a job on the bridge not know about this plan and tell poe (btw thats carries daughter!) tldr felt like fanservice was considered first then story fitted around I'm sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy the movie. I wanted to ask though, how does a movie do "fanservice was considered first" but at the same time let you down for all the fanservice stuff that you were expecting, like the knights of ren, kylos potential, reys parents... Etc. I kinda think the movie purposely did not give a shit a bout fan service, best seen in how Luke threw his sabre over his shoulder when rey gave it to him. I wish akbar could have gotten one last "it's a trap!!!" as the bridge blew up though | ||
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levelping
Singapore759 Posts
On December 21 2017 17:31 TheEmulator wrote: idk man Leia literally entered God mode by not immediately dying in outer space then she also FLEW THROUGH THE DAMN AIR while unconscious edit: idk if moving those rocks is that much more impressive than Luke moving his ship from Yoda's swamp if we ignore that Rey has no training. Well... there is technically no air in outer space, so she did not fly through any air. (technically correct, the best kind of correct). | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On December 21 2017 18:15 levelping wrote: I'm sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy the movie. I wanted to ask though, how does a movie do "fanservice was considered first" but at the same time let you down for all the fanservice stuff that you were expecting, like the knights of ren, kylos potential, reys parents... Etc. I kinda think the movie purposely did not give a shit a bout fan service, best seen in how Luke threw his sabre over his shoulder when rey gave it to him. I wish akbar could have gotten one last "it's a trap!!!" as the bridge blew up though So the knights of ren, kylo and snokes backstroy, reys parents from the TFA seemed to be crucial points to the story for TLJ or ep9 they were presented as a mystery that needed answers but instead they were glossed over as not particulary relevant to the story inside TLJ, so for the directors story they werent considered important (at least so far maybe snoke is actually alive...we dont know but the end of the movie seems to steer clear of that) He told the story how he wanted to, and left out those mysteries that JJ abrams set the foundation for. Instead of having these already established elements fitted into the story or the story being built around them,the new director as swept them aside in favour of fanservice moments like the Lightspeed crash into snokes ship, snoke using force lighting, the sith hole, leia flying through space, yoda popping up. Fan service probably isnt the most accurate term, but rather what i mean by it is "ideas" that the director thought of that in itself would be a nice/sweet cinematic moment or an easter egg type element eg: the han solo golden dice. But dont meld well with the established universe and the story base that jj set up. I imagine that the director thought that these moments would be cool and have the fans awing, (leia flying through space, rey lighting a million rocks, snoke lighting, lightspeed crash, snokes sudden death) but instead just show a misunderstanding of the starwars universe. In summary, interesting/cool story points from the first movie were disregarded for new cool moments that dont make sense/wouldnt fit in a well told starwars story (its a starwars story i would have a lot less to say if this was some stand alone sci-fi movie but its not, theres an establish universe and this kinda shits on it) | ||
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levelping
Singapore759 Posts
On December 21 2017 18:49 Shock710 wrote: So the knights of ren, kylo and snokes backstroy, reys parents from the TFA seemed to be crucial points to the story for TLJ or ep9 they were presented as a mystery that needed answers but instead they were glossed over as not particulary relevant to the story inside TLJ, so for the directors story they werent considered important (at least so far maybe snoke is actually alive...we dont know but the end of the movie seems to steer clear of that) He told the story how he wanted to, and left out those mysteries that JJ abrams set the foundation for. Instead of having these already established elements fitted into the story or the story being built around them,the new director as swept them aside in favour of fanservice moments like the Lightspeed crash into snokes ship, snoke using force lighting, the sith hole, leia flying through space, yoda popping up. Fan service probably isnt the most accurate term, but rather what i mean by it is "ideas" that the director thought of that in itself would be a nice/sweet cinematic moment or an easter egg type element eg: the han solo golden dice. But dont meld well with the established universe and the story base that jj set up. I imagine that the director thought that these moments would be cool and have the fans awing, (leia flying through space, rey lighting a million rocks, snoke lighting, lightspeed crash, snokes sudden death) but instead just show a misunderstanding of the starwars universe. In summary, interesting/cool story points from the first movie were disregarded for new cool moments that dont make sense/wouldnt fit in a well told starwars story (its a starwars story i would have a lot less to say if this was some stand alone sci-fi movie but its not, theres an establish universe and this kinda shits on it) Well again, I want to start by saying I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, and also that it's totally cool that we have different views on the movie. I really liked it, and actually found it totally be a Star Wars movie, and what I am going to write next is just to share my thoughts, and if you disagree that's also cool. I am sort of saying all this because there are some really... really tense people in this thread that just start yelling about stuff. Anywho, I would first agree that some bits are just... weird. Leia flying left me frustrated. The lightspeed crash too. On the other hand though, the other things you mention aren't really that out of place in the star wars universe. Snoke died, but so the Emperor. Sure Snoke's death was a bit anti-climatic, but thematically, Snoke and the Emperor are just there as the "big bad guy" and you are not really given much information about them (the Emperor's full backstory is only expanded in the prequels and the EU). Rey lifted a million rocks, but Luke lifted his entire X wing from a swamp, so that's about equal. But these are just the smaller issues. I think what you are really getting is that this movie does not feel like a star wars movie. Which I disagree with. I think that TLJ asks "what exactly is the essence of star wars" and then it starts to just throw away everything that isn't part of the essential star wars experience. So... skywalkers aren't important, as are magical parents, even most of the lore on the Jedi and Sith are just discarded. Instead it gives you a stripped down version of what the Force is (no Jedi Code, Rule of Two, or other dogma). I actually really appreciate how refreshing it all felt. One big problem I think with Star Wars is that it gets taken way too seriously and there is just endless lore on even the smallest of characters. This movie says hey all that isn't really important - focus on the important bits instead. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Also what are the important bits did it focus on instead in your opinion because i can't remember anything important or we have different opinions on important bits in a film. Like, character development, back stories, how they are dealing with issues. We saw R2D2 once in that film right, why didn't we get scenes where luke is trying to deal with stuff and talking to R2 so we can understand more of luke's mindset. Rey could have also used Chewy in this regard too, or something similar. Kylo Ren is kinda the only character who we learnt alot about him with ab it of development of understanding what happened to kinda take him to the dark side. But Snoke himself would been easy to put in 10 minutes of his backstory or something. To kill him off in a movie and as an audience we are supposed to be like wow he died wow, we need more of an understand of who he is, or you are just killing off a random character. Quite easy to add filler to the sub stories for all characters from Poe to Leia what they were doing during the transition from being happily at peace to being run out of the galaxy and hunted by the First Order. So much plot and character potential went wasted because he seemed to only focus on Kylo Ren and destroying the old Jedi vs Sith plot making it just a good vs evil story per se. I am just trying to understand your point of view of why it is a good film to see if i missed anything. I am going to see episode 9 no matter what, i haven't watched TFA for a second time and probably won't until all 3 are out and watch them, this just made me sad at the end, first time ever for a film xD | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
-the lighspeed crash...while looks beautiful it didnt make sense, why dont they just do that all the time why dont the bombers just do that...why doesnt every battle just end with the loser going fuck this everyone lightspeed into them! i dont think making bombers or space craft with hyperdrive is very practical just to crash it , it is probably too costly specially for the rebels. The only reason why it sliced off the ship was because that ship is huge. And to add to that, in SW universe, main weapons are lasers than projectiles. ps: Lasers are unli | ||
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