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On April 12 2014 05:51 Raneth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 05:34 NewSunshine wrote:On April 12 2014 02:50 LaughingTulkas wrote:On April 11 2014 17:13 Minahga wrote:
Why does everyone complain about power levels? I don't feel like they've been misrepresented at all.
Sharingan is still very strong, before it just seemed stronger because Naruto was still just a kid. He even used a lower tail count kyuubi.
Now that the only Sharingan that matters is Mangekyou, of course Naruto has to use Sage mode to come close. Sasuke had the curse mark as a second booster, and Naruto had additional tails to boost himself too.
They've been pretty much even. Now others...
A lot people complain Byakugan is weak, but it's supposed to be. Remember it was only really strong vs regular Sharingan and lost to Kyuubi Naruto when he really tried.
Hyuuga clan fighting style is also very close to Taijutsu, they just have the bonus eye ability of seeing really good and awareness in 360° and go for chakra points (which would cripple an actual Taijutsu fighter).
So what we already knew from the start is still true and hasn't changed. Taijutsu weakest, then Sharingan (which can predict movements), then Byakugan (can trump Sharingan because it detects Genjutsu), then Mangekyou Sharingan (basically a costly but powerful upgrade that can trump Byakugan), then Rinnegan.
Various Kages all have different strengths, some individuals have chakra levels rivaling a tailed beast (swordsmen, akatsuki, and sennin too) etc.
If you really sit down and think about it, power levels in Naruto are fine and shown well. The point is that at the beginning of the manga one was led to believe that each generation surpassed the last, only instead to find that every single modern ninja is rubbish compared to the OP powers the oldest ninjas had. Fights used to be not just about raw power, but about using ninja tactics to out-think your opponent and making the most of your strengths while covering for your weaknesses. Sadly, those days are long gone. This was something they only mentioned in passing, and the real theme is quite different, but not inconsistent with it. The actual theme is that once every couple generations or so, a pair of shinobi emerge who represent the brotherhood of Indra and Ashura, it's a relationship that repeats, until something happens to break the cycle. This doesn't preclude the idea of each generation succeeding the previous, rather that the chosen 2 will always be head and shoulders above everyone else, despite which era they're from. Am i to read this as sarcasm or a serious post?
I think he was serious
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I have a feeling it's taking a Kuroko no Basket approach to stuff. There's a short improvement from gen to gen, since they can learn the tricks people already discovered. However, every so often, there are geniuses, where they stand tall over everyone else.
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On April 12 2014 06:14 Dark_Chill wrote:
I have a feeling it's taking a Kuroko no Basket approach to stuff. There's a short improvement from gen to gen, since they can learn the tricks people already discovered. However, every so often, there are geniuses, where they stand tall over everyone else.
Yeah, there's a few million dead fodder ninjas from previous generations that weren't revived or even mentioned. Because you know, they were fodder.
The average ninja now is probably stronger than the average ninja a couple generations ago, but there's guys like Madara, the old Kage's, etc. who were probably about 20 standard deviations above the mean which means they are still insanely powerful.
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On April 12 2014 05:51 Raneth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 05:34 NewSunshine wrote:On April 12 2014 02:50 LaughingTulkas wrote:On April 11 2014 17:13 Minahga wrote:
Why does everyone complain about power levels? I don't feel like they've been misrepresented at all.
Sharingan is still very strong, before it just seemed stronger because Naruto was still just a kid. He even used a lower tail count kyuubi.
Now that the only Sharingan that matters is Mangekyou, of course Naruto has to use Sage mode to come close. Sasuke had the curse mark as a second booster, and Naruto had additional tails to boost himself too.
They've been pretty much even. Now others...
A lot people complain Byakugan is weak, but it's supposed to be. Remember it was only really strong vs regular Sharingan and lost to Kyuubi Naruto when he really tried.
Hyuuga clan fighting style is also very close to Taijutsu, they just have the bonus eye ability of seeing really good and awareness in 360° and go for chakra points (which would cripple an actual Taijutsu fighter).
So what we already knew from the start is still true and hasn't changed. Taijutsu weakest, then Sharingan (which can predict movements), then Byakugan (can trump Sharingan because it detects Genjutsu), then Mangekyou Sharingan (basically a costly but powerful upgrade that can trump Byakugan), then Rinnegan.
Various Kages all have different strengths, some individuals have chakra levels rivaling a tailed beast (swordsmen, akatsuki, and sennin too) etc.
If you really sit down and think about it, power levels in Naruto are fine and shown well. The point is that at the beginning of the manga one was led to believe that each generation surpassed the last, only instead to find that every single modern ninja is rubbish compared to the OP powers the oldest ninjas had. Fights used to be not just about raw power, but about using ninja tactics to out-think your opponent and making the most of your strengths while covering for your weaknesses. Sadly, those days are long gone. This was something they only mentioned in passing, and the real theme is quite different, but not inconsistent with it. The actual theme is that once every couple generations or so, a pair of shinobi emerge who represent the brotherhood of Indra and Ashura, it's a relationship that repeats, until something happens to break the cycle. This doesn't preclude the idea of each generation succeeding the previous, rather that the chosen 2 will always be head and shoulders above everyone else, despite which era they're from. Am i to read this as sarcasm or a serious post?
Am I to assume there might be a reason to read sarcasm into my text? If you've paid attention to what's been going on, I should just be stating the obvious.
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On April 12 2014 08:43 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 05:51 Raneth wrote:On April 12 2014 05:34 NewSunshine wrote:On April 12 2014 02:50 LaughingTulkas wrote:On April 11 2014 17:13 Minahga wrote:
Why does everyone complain about power levels? I don't feel like they've been misrepresented at all.
Sharingan is still very strong, before it just seemed stronger because Naruto was still just a kid. He even used a lower tail count kyuubi.
Now that the only Sharingan that matters is Mangekyou, of course Naruto has to use Sage mode to come close. Sasuke had the curse mark as a second booster, and Naruto had additional tails to boost himself too.
They've been pretty much even. Now others...
A lot people complain Byakugan is weak, but it's supposed to be. Remember it was only really strong vs regular Sharingan and lost to Kyuubi Naruto when he really tried.
Hyuuga clan fighting style is also very close to Taijutsu, they just have the bonus eye ability of seeing really good and awareness in 360° and go for chakra points (which would cripple an actual Taijutsu fighter).
So what we already knew from the start is still true and hasn't changed. Taijutsu weakest, then Sharingan (which can predict movements), then Byakugan (can trump Sharingan because it detects Genjutsu), then Mangekyou Sharingan (basically a costly but powerful upgrade that can trump Byakugan), then Rinnegan.
Various Kages all have different strengths, some individuals have chakra levels rivaling a tailed beast (swordsmen, akatsuki, and sennin too) etc.
If you really sit down and think about it, power levels in Naruto are fine and shown well. The point is that at the beginning of the manga one was led to believe that each generation surpassed the last, only instead to find that every single modern ninja is rubbish compared to the OP powers the oldest ninjas had. Fights used to be not just about raw power, but about using ninja tactics to out-think your opponent and making the most of your strengths while covering for your weaknesses. Sadly, those days are long gone. This was something they only mentioned in passing, and the real theme is quite different, but not inconsistent with it. The actual theme is that once every couple generations or so, a pair of shinobi emerge who represent the brotherhood of Indra and Ashura, it's a relationship that repeats, until something happens to break the cycle. This doesn't preclude the idea of each generation succeeding the previous, rather that the chosen 2 will always be head and shoulders above everyone else, despite which era they're from. Am i to read this as sarcasm or a serious post? Am I to assume there might be a reason to read sarcasm into my text? If you've paid attention to what's been going on, I should just be stating the obvious.
Becuase the theme through out the anime up untill -very- recently, was about succession and one generation coming to surpass the last. Only recently did it turn into an anime about two special snowflakes and whoever they happen to be possessing.
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On April 12 2014 03:22 shark. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 03:15 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2014 03:02 shark. wrote:
Brains mattered more early on because there was never a true real threat other than the Tailed beasts. If people enter (Akatsuki) who can fight and capture these powers then it seems reasonable enough that brains won't win you a fight against people that strong.
Enter the Legends of the world that can deal with all the tailed beasts at once and know nearly everything there is to know about every jutsu out there then brains are gonna get you killed. The old generation are the ones who created everything the young ones know. Shounen logic dictates that the people who create the world as you learn it (Yamamoto in bleach, Madara and Harahima in Naruto for example) will be people of immersible power that people may only dream of being capable of matching. who on earth used there brains aside from Naruto though? Kakashi never did much strategizing against Zabuza just multiple clones then straight up power battle with Jutsu im really stretching to think of battles that really was mind games that didnt include Naruto The rescue Sasuke arc had everyone using there brains alot i felt. Points afterwards such as Jirayia vs Pain Itachi vs Sasuke etc sort of had thinking. Jiriaya and the 3rd i feel are the true embodiments of the true brains meet extreme fucking power. They both never used true hax, just pure unadulterated immeasurable battle prowess, talent and experience.
fatty didnt, Neji sorta did at the end, Kiba didnt Shikamaru did but thats his whole selling point
and the 3 sand guys just demolished there opponents with brute force
i wouldnt count Jiraiya VS pain as using his head he didnt get that creative
Sasukes final blow was decent
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I just want to say that finally, FINALLY the madra fight is over. Just a few more chaptets... This fight had been going on for a year and a half. I imagine that at least 100 Naruto fans have died from various causes throughout the duration of this fight. They will not live to see the end of this battle but perhaps we can suffer through these final moments. For the last few chapters, we can bear through this monstrocity and see the end of what so many have died for. Hopefully this is the final monologue, the final power up that we have to suffer through. With madra on death's doorstep and with naruto and sasuke finally obtaining god hood, this is the very last stretch until the end. I would like to commend all of you, my comrades for sitting through this impossibly long action sequence and actually having the patience to keep up, week after week with absurd developments and ass pulls so that your children and future generations would have to. I salute you, my brothers. Your sacrifice will be remembered.
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On April 13 2014 14:31 Hyperbola wrote:
I just want to say that finally, FINALLY the madra fight is over. Just a few more chaptets... This fight had been going on for a year and a half. I imagine that at least 100 Naruto fans have died from various causes throughout the duration of this fight. They will not live to see the end of this battle but perhaps we can suffer through these final moments. For the last few chapters, we can bear through this monstrocity and see the end of what so many have died for. Hopefully this is the final monologue, the final power up that we have to suffer through. With madra on death's doorstep and with naruto and sasuke finally obtaining god hood, this is the very last stretch until the end. I would like to commend all of you, my comrades for sitting through this impossibly long action sequence and actually having the patience to keep up, week after week with absurd developments and ass pulls so that your children and future generations would have to. I salute you, my brothers. Your sacrifice will be remembered.
Amen .
just fucking few more and we are done. I can finally have a reason to stop bitching about naruto.
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Only good thing about Naruto series is Yondaime.
He is the coolest shounen character, at least for me. It's hard to believe that he has a loser kid like Naruto :< Why Naruto is a loser? because he can't move on, its been more than 600 chapters, he still go after Sasuke like "SASUKEEEH, COMEBACK SASUKEEEH"
+ Show Spoiler +
so cool :3
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On April 12 2014 07:44 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 06:14 Dark_Chill wrote:
I have a feeling it's taking a Kuroko no Basket approach to stuff. There's a short improvement from gen to gen, since they can learn the tricks people already discovered. However, every so often, there are geniuses, where they stand tall over everyone else. Yeah, there's a few million dead fodder ninjas from previous generations that weren't revived or even mentioned. Because you know, they were fodder. The average ninja now is probably stronger than the average ninja a couple generations ago, but there's guys like Madara, the old Kage's, etc. who were probably about 20 standard deviations above the mean which means they are still insanely powerful.
Yes but originally in the anime it was implied that even the geniuses were getting better over time, with each hokage becoming stronger and stronger. Then at some point kishi just decided to ret-con all that and go with the first and madara being total badasses to whom no one else even came close, even geniuses like orochimarru kakashi and sarutobi
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On April 14 2014 05:26 Raneth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 07:44 ticklishmusic wrote:On April 12 2014 06:14 Dark_Chill wrote:
I have a feeling it's taking a Kuroko no Basket approach to stuff. There's a short improvement from gen to gen, since they can learn the tricks people already discovered. However, every so often, there are geniuses, where they stand tall over everyone else. Yeah, there's a few million dead fodder ninjas from previous generations that weren't revived or even mentioned. Because you know, they were fodder. The average ninja now is probably stronger than the average ninja a couple generations ago, but there's guys like Madara, the old Kage's, etc. who were probably about 20 standard deviations above the mean which means they are still insanely powerful. Yes but originally in the anime it was implied that even the geniuses were getting better over time, with each hokage becoming stronger and stronger. Then at some point kishi just decided to ret-con all that and go with the first and madara being total badasses to whom no one else even came close, even geniuses like orochimarru kakashi and sarutobi
Well the third was meant to be the strongest Hokage ever. Taught by the first and second and with monstrous chakra that made the air heavy and impossible to breathe even in old age. But now hes irrelevant to the story, he has been degraded.
The third is the only person so far i think who has truly shown his mere presence to have a physical effect on people without actually intending to do so.
The old generation created all we know in the manga as with most stories but it always they will always be the strongest and most talented. Every story has people who managed the impossible to create all that is know and people who attempt to recreate their greatness.
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On April 12 2014 09:13 Raneth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2014 08:43 NewSunshine wrote:On April 12 2014 05:51 Raneth wrote:On April 12 2014 05:34 NewSunshine wrote:On April 12 2014 02:50 LaughingTulkas wrote:On April 11 2014 17:13 Minahga wrote:
Why does everyone complain about power levels? I don't feel like they've been misrepresented at all.
Sharingan is still very strong, before it just seemed stronger because Naruto was still just a kid. He even used a lower tail count kyuubi.
Now that the only Sharingan that matters is Mangekyou, of course Naruto has to use Sage mode to come close. Sasuke had the curse mark as a second booster, and Naruto had additional tails to boost himself too.
They've been pretty much even. Now others...
A lot people complain Byakugan is weak, but it's supposed to be. Remember it was only really strong vs regular Sharingan and lost to Kyuubi Naruto when he really tried.
Hyuuga clan fighting style is also very close to Taijutsu, they just have the bonus eye ability of seeing really good and awareness in 360° and go for chakra points (which would cripple an actual Taijutsu fighter).
So what we already knew from the start is still true and hasn't changed. Taijutsu weakest, then Sharingan (which can predict movements), then Byakugan (can trump Sharingan because it detects Genjutsu), then Mangekyou Sharingan (basically a costly but powerful upgrade that can trump Byakugan), then Rinnegan.
Various Kages all have different strengths, some individuals have chakra levels rivaling a tailed beast (swordsmen, akatsuki, and sennin too) etc.
If you really sit down and think about it, power levels in Naruto are fine and shown well. The point is that at the beginning of the manga one was led to believe that each generation surpassed the last, only instead to find that every single modern ninja is rubbish compared to the OP powers the oldest ninjas had. Fights used to be not just about raw power, but about using ninja tactics to out-think your opponent and making the most of your strengths while covering for your weaknesses. Sadly, those days are long gone. This was something they only mentioned in passing, and the real theme is quite different, but not inconsistent with it. The actual theme is that once every couple generations or so, a pair of shinobi emerge who represent the brotherhood of Indra and Ashura, it's a relationship that repeats, until something happens to break the cycle. This doesn't preclude the idea of each generation succeeding the previous, rather that the chosen 2 will always be head and shoulders above everyone else, despite which era they're from. Am i to read this as sarcasm or a serious post? Am I to assume there might be a reason to read sarcasm into my text? If you've paid attention to what's been going on, I should just be stating the obvious. Becuase the theme through out the anime up untill -very- recently, was about succession and one generation coming to surpass the last. Only recently did it turn into an anime about two special snowflakes and whoever they happen to be possessing.
Um, that isn't the theme at all, never was really. It was something a couple(one?) of characters mentioned a long way back, that's about it. The theme they pointed out just recently has been present all along, and fits much better. For the idea you're talking about to be a theme, it would have to recur throughout various events in the story, and it hasn't. It was a line of dialogue.
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On April 14 2014 06:27 Dark_Chill wrote:Yes it is
I always took that as Kakashi telling a supposedly immortal man that everyone has to die sometime but I get your point. I've got say though, I think the new generation is stronger than previous ones. I honestly think that the 4th would beat the 1st. Madara is the exception here and he's had an entire lifetime to get stronger. When you compare their ages I feel the current generation has indeed surpassed the old one. Naruto, at 15 or 16, however old he is, defeated Pein, the man who effortlessly killed Jiraiya who was one of the strongest of his generation. Think of the Ino-Shika-Cho trio. As young as they are, they're already as strong as their parents. And Lee... is Lee.
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On April 14 2014 10:42 SupaChicken wrote:I always took that as Kakashi telling a supposedly immortal man that everyone has to die sometime but I get your point. I've got say though, I think the new generation is stronger than previous ones. I honestly think that the 4th would beat the 1st. Madara is the exception here and he's had an entire lifetime to get stronger. When you compare their ages I feel the current generation has indeed surpassed the old one. Naruto, at 15 or 16, however old he is, defeated Pein, the man who effortlessly killed Jiraiya who was one of the strongest of his generation. Think of the Ino-Shika-Cho trio. As young as they are, they're already as strong as their parents. And Lee... is Lee.
You are listing lots of good reasons that it is indeed the intended theme, as there should be, becuase you know, its the god damn theme. What ISNT the theme, is the first and madara suddenly being god's, and the only reason naruto and sasuke are gods is nothing to do with them surpassing the previous generation, they are just special snowflakes.
The 4th im afraid from what we've seen would not beat the first, but that is actually excusable considering he died so young.
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On April 14 2014 11:06 Raneth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2014 10:42 SupaChicken wrote:On April 14 2014 06:27 Dark_Chill wrote:Yes it is I always took that as Kakashi telling a supposedly immortal man that everyone has to die sometime but I get your point. I've got say though, I think the new generation is stronger than previous ones. I honestly think that the 4th would beat the 1st. Madara is the exception here and he's had an entire lifetime to get stronger. When you compare their ages I feel the current generation has indeed surpassed the old one. Naruto, at 15 or 16, however old he is, defeated Pein, the man who effortlessly killed Jiraiya who was one of the strongest of his generation. Think of the Ino-Shika-Cho trio. As young as they are, they're already as strong as their parents. And Lee... is Lee. You are listing lots of good reasons that it is indeed the intended theme, as there should be, becuase you know, its the god damn theme. What ISNT the theme, is the first and madara suddenly being god's, and the only reason naruto and sasuke are gods is nothing to do with them surpassing the previous generation, they are just special snowflakes. The 4th im afraid from what we've seen would not beat the first, but that is actually excusable considering he died so young.
Calling it snowflakes is ignorant, it denies its meaning. The theme revolves around the unique relationship that Naruto and Sasuke had - which to me was always more prevalent and significant than the idea of each generation surpassing the last. Now it's been revealed that that relationship is something that's been recurring through the generations, a cycle that's meant to be broken so that people may know peace. The theme is pretty much Buddhism, it's written all over the story, everywhere you turn it's there, and personally I find it more convincing, and I'm more beholden to it.
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On April 14 2014 05:12 Mensol wrote:Only good thing about Naruto series is Yondaime. He is the coolest shounen character, at least for me. It's hard to believe that he has a loser kid like Naruto :< Why Naruto is a loser? because he can't move on, its been more than 600 chapters, he still go after Sasuke like "SASUKEEEH, COMEBACK SASUKEEEH" + Show Spoiler +so cool :3
Yep I agree with you. The fourth is the only really cool thing in Naruto
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On April 14 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2014 05:12 Mensol wrote:Only good thing about Naruto series is Yondaime. He is the coolest shounen character, at least for me. It's hard to believe that he has a loser kid like Naruto :< Why Naruto is a loser? because he can't move on, its been more than 600 chapters, he still go after Sasuke like "SASUKEEEH, COMEBACK SASUKEEEH" + Show Spoiler +so cool :3 Yep I agree with you. The fourth is the only really cool thing in Naruto
No love for Itachi...? <.< edit: or for Rock Lee + Gai
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Someone like chapter 342 last page. My thoughts on reading it were "oh, yeah, I forgot about it but there was once a time when Naruto could be cool". That's the chapter with Shikamaru and Kurenai dealing with the loss of Asuma.
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I liked Naruto when it was about Ninjas, not about Sasuke and Naruto.
I dislike Shippuuden completely, original Naruto was better. Zabuza vs Kakashi is the best :3 I still follow because i wonder what will happen in the end,
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EPT![[image loading]](http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/044/e/7/4th_hokage_minato_namikaze_by_theboar-d4pof7q.jpg)
