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I know I shouldn't argue with Forikorder from what I've seen in the manga threads... but his "facts" keep bothering me. Just to clarify for people:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 11:11 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 10:43 MrStorkie wrote:I guess I'm just curious why nobody holds the last name "Senju". Even if there is cross marriage, there must still be someone amongst the entire former Senju clan that hold on to the last name. Unless their descendents are all women? The only direct descendent ever mentioned in the manga is Tsunade, and even then, her last name was never brought up. Also, Sarutobi Hiruzen is said to possess the "Will of fire" too (I suppose that means he's part of the Senju? possessing the body of the sage), but his last name is Hiruzen. And even among Naruto's broken clan -- the Uzumaki, there are still fugitives in hiding that still bear that last name. Food for thought? Edit: a little google and I found this : http://www.narutodaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=638:senju-clan&catid=55:naruto-clans&Itemid=112I guess some stuff are just lost in translation.. I never knew Senju meant 千手 everyone in Konoha has the will of fire its like power of friendship Not everyone has the will of fire (ex. Orochimaru, Sasuke(?), etc). "The 'Will of Fire' states that every true Leaf shinobi must love, believe, cherish and fight for the village's sake, as many previous generations had done before them. There are lots of shinobi and people who don't follow this.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 13:12 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 13:07 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 20 2013 12:30 Forikorder wrote:On March 20 2013 12:27 saocyn wrote:On March 20 2013 02:37 Chaggi wrote:On March 20 2013 02:35 Garalor wrote:
beside the last chapter,
was it explained, why kabuto did not revive jiraiya?
and your talking about oro remindet me how strong oro is, and that he can controll the old kages(beside hashi). rly looking forword to the end of the flashback his cells and stuff are at teh bottom of the ocean so they can't get to them i laughed pretty hard when i read this. immortality is not out of reach, but apparently the depth of a regular ocean is. too bad they never invented submarines -.- Too bad they forgot that Kisame is a shark and that there's giant turtle summons. too bad neither of those are deep deep sea creatures both of those breath air theyd never get deep enough, plus neither of those were Kabutos subordinates Turtles need to resurface to breathe, but sharks do not. Sharks have gills so they do not necessarily need to resurface to obtain oxygen. Also, why would you need to be a subordinate of Kabutos?
+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 13:16 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 13:14 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 20 2013 13:12 Forikorder wrote:On March 20 2013 13:07 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 20 2013 12:30 Forikorder wrote:On March 20 2013 12:27 saocyn wrote:On March 20 2013 02:37 Chaggi wrote:On March 20 2013 02:35 Garalor wrote:
beside the last chapter,
was it explained, why kabuto did not revive jiraiya?
and your talking about oro remindet me how strong oro is, and that he can controll the old kages(beside hashi). rly looking forword to the end of the flashback his cells and stuff are at teh bottom of the ocean so they can't get to them i laughed pretty hard when i read this. immortality is not out of reach, but apparently the depth of a regular ocean is. too bad they never invented submarines -.- Too bad they forgot that Kisame is a shark and that there's giant turtle summons. too bad neither of those are deep deep sea creatures both of those breath air theyd never get deep enough, plus neither of those were Kabutos subordinates Or he could, yknow, send one of his undead minions with infinite chakra and OP regeneration to go fetch. and then the body gets crushed by the sea pressure and cant swim back up With infinite regeneration, it could be possible. These undead bodies seemingly don't require or use oxygen, nor much of anything. So the pressure that's applied to them is not the same that's applied to an alive, normal body. Under sea pressure, the alive body is filled with oxygen. These oxygen are trapped within the body (cells, blood, etc) and are crushed under lots of pressure. Fish on the other hand are filled with water. To equalize the difference in water pressure, all they do is either lose or gain more water depending on pressure. With undead, regenerating bodies (not to mention chakra and ninja arts), I don't see why they can't survive.
That's all I'm going to input. Don't feel like going further.
But towards the main topic, I wondered what became of Madara's and Hashirama's father. I know they died, but I wished it explained a little more. Not to mention, Izuna's death was a little weak to my tasting. We've seen plenty of death moves and people surviving... I mean, the damage inflicted seems survivable.
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On March 20 2013 13:12 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 13:07 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 20 2013 12:30 Forikorder wrote:On March 20 2013 12:27 saocyn wrote:On March 20 2013 02:37 Chaggi wrote:On March 20 2013 02:35 Garalor wrote:
beside the last chapter,
was it explained, why kabuto did not revive jiraiya?
and your talking about oro remindet me how strong oro is, and that he can controll the old kages(beside hashi). rly looking forword to the end of the flashback his cells and stuff are at teh bottom of the ocean so they can't get to them i laughed pretty hard when i read this. immortality is not out of reach, but apparently the depth of a regular ocean is. too bad they never invented submarines -.- Too bad they forgot that Kisame is a shark and that there's giant turtle summons. too bad neither of those are deep deep sea creatures both of those breath air theyd never get deep enough, plus neither of those were Kabutos subordinates
The fuck? Sharks have gills
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But towards the main topic, I wondered what became of Madara's and Hashirama's father. I know they died, but I wished it explained a little more. Not to mention, Izuna's death was a little weak to my tasting. We've seen plenty of death moves and people surviving... I mean, the damage inflicted seems survivable.
That's going to be Madaras flashback and it'll clear up why he hates the world so much.
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On March 20 2013 13:16 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 13:14 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 20 2013 13:12 Forikorder wrote:On March 20 2013 13:07 ticklishmusic wrote:On March 20 2013 12:30 Forikorder wrote:On March 20 2013 12:27 saocyn wrote:On March 20 2013 02:37 Chaggi wrote:On March 20 2013 02:35 Garalor wrote:
beside the last chapter,
was it explained, why kabuto did not revive jiraiya?
and your talking about oro remindet me how strong oro is, and that he can controll the old kages(beside hashi). rly looking forword to the end of the flashback his cells and stuff are at teh bottom of the ocean so they can't get to them i laughed pretty hard when i read this. immortality is not out of reach, but apparently the depth of a regular ocean is. too bad they never invented submarines -.- Too bad they forgot that Kisame is a shark and that there's giant turtle summons. too bad neither of those are deep deep sea creatures both of those breath air theyd never get deep enough, plus neither of those were Kabutos subordinates Or he could, yknow, send one of his undead minions with infinite chakra and OP regeneration to go fetch. and then the body gets crushed by the sea pressure and cant swim back up
Too bad you fail to realize that our laws of physics doesn't apply to naruto manga. Water pressure is nothing to these guys. They can fly, create elements just with hand symbol, why would they worry about water pressure? Too bad you fail to realize people in naruto can split the sea in two to find jiraiya's body? You fail to realize that jiraiyia was bleeding everywhere in the town of rain. Plenty of DNA around.
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On March 20 2013 15:28 Asol wrote:
Seems to be a combination. From the EMS you can also gain the Rinnengan. I view it as a similar upgrade from sharingan -> MS.
The downside is that the person is mentally unstable as the things they've experienced are quite awful to have led forward to the evolution of sharingan.
I think quite a few people here are forgetting that what we're hearing is the 1st hokages side of the story. Not Madaras side of the story which will undoubtedly come in a couple of chapters and that's why everything seems so weird atm.
EMS is eternal and an upgrade in the sense that you gain an extra skill.I think that's all that is different so yeah Izuna's death must have been very rough for the Uchiha
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TLADT24920 Posts
I guess the one thing that confused me was the fact that the Uchiha kept on being outmatched. As someone here mentioned, could be that the Senju found a way to overcome the Sharingan after battling with them for so long kinda like how Gai said that you can close your eyes but even then, I always figured that the Sharingan gave the Uchiha an extra edge over the Senju and that they were otherwise equal so when he said they were being outmatched, it seemed a bit odd lol.
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On March 20 2013 17:44 BigFan wrote:
I guess the one thing that confused me was the fact that the Uchiha kept on being outmatched. As someone here mentioned, could be that the Senju found a way to overcome the Sharingan after battling with them for so long kinda like how Gai said that you can close your eyes but even then, I always figured that the Sharingan gave the Uchiha an extra edge over the Senju and that they were otherwise equal so when he said they were being outmatched, it seemed a bit odd lol.
I just figured the clans were still equal except for their leaders with Hashirama simply outclassing Madara and tipping scales the Senju way.
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to defend forikorder, they do explicitly say that Jiraiya's body is at the bottom of a very deep sea chasm and the pressure at that depth is too strong even for the greatest shinobi to retrieve. They state it in the manga, as well as in the anime. So any further postulation about this and that being possible, they already covered this 'plot hole' with some sort of super environmental force.
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On March 20 2013 18:18 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 17:44 BigFan wrote:
I guess the one thing that confused me was the fact that the Uchiha kept on being outmatched. As someone here mentioned, could be that the Senju found a way to overcome the Sharingan after battling with them for so long kinda like how Gai said that you can close your eyes but even then, I always figured that the Sharingan gave the Uchiha an extra edge over the Senju and that they were otherwise equal so when he said they were being outmatched, it seemed a bit odd lol. I just figured the clans were still equal except for their leaders with Hashirama simply outclassing Madara and tipping scales the Senju way.
This is how the story sounded to me as well. It's partially based on the ambush where everyone was equal but then madara calls hashi stronger than himself amd everyone was surprised. Then we see years of fighting where senju keep on having a slight edge, it just seems to make sense thst hashi was the one tipping the scales in the senju favor. And after years then finally many uchiha gave up and defected, weakening the uchiha more until they finally wanted the peace treaty and formed konoha. We'll find out soon enough after hashi tells madara he's a dumb emo and needs to grow the hell up, and that he obvioisly won't kill his bro.
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On March 20 2013 18:19 Kazeyonoma wrote:
to defend forikorder, they do explicitly say that Jiraiya's body is at the bottom of a very deep sea chasm and the pressure at that depth is too strong even for the greatest shinobi to retrieve. They state it in the manga, as well as in the anime. So any further postulation about this and that being possible, they already covered this 'plot hole' with some sort of super environmental force.
I think we can both agree Jiraiya isn't ever coming back. But your information is partially wrong. Jiraiya's body is never stated to be in a chasm nor is it said that the depth is too strong even for the greatest shinobi. The manga (english translation) states the body is deep in the ocean below unfathomable depths. The anime (englished subbed) states the body is deep in the ocean where the pressure is too strong to enter.
I can't check on the manga's original raw since I couldn't find it. But I watched the anime to check the Japanese dub. I can translate that it says that Jiraiya's body is in the ocean/sea's depth (深海の中） where one can't enter. It doesn't say anything about pressure (I guess it just implies it).
Source: manga - ch 520 pg 14 or shippuden episode 264
Edit:
Though the only way to bring Jiraiya back would be the have his DNA (source above), not necessarily his body.
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We still have rinne tensei to bring back anyone from the dead. Hell, let's summon the whole uzumaki and uchiha clans after the war -- for the lulz
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Does anybody else find it disturbing that Uchiha are actually able to awaken the Rinnegan by severe traumatization, depression and generally being emo?
The Rinnegan is one of the only things we know the sage of the six paths had.
The only other thing is his way of treating the bijuu, which Naruto is kinda aping.
One would think that the great deeds of the sage of the six paths would first be recreated by his senju descendants. Yet the self destructive uchiha clan was the first to recreate part of the sage's power.
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enjoyed the chapter, always felt like that Uchiha and Senju were more equal though and not that the senju won their battles most of the time ~_~ And Hashi has basically been always stronger than Madara lol, not really rivals then.
@ below me, hahaha "put on sunglasses" ninja'd :D
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Get back to the right thread or I'll perform the Hidden Leaf Ancient Taijutsu Supreme Technique on you...
edit: guess you edited your post before I even had time to post this, well played
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why is hashirama superior to madara in every which way, intelligence included? this isn't a rivalry at all.
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On March 20 2013 20:10 MageSoren wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 18:19 Kazeyonoma wrote:
to defend forikorder, they do explicitly say that Jiraiya's body is at the bottom of a very deep sea chasm and the pressure at that depth is too strong even for the greatest shinobi to retrieve. They state it in the manga, as well as in the anime. So any further postulation about this and that being possible, they already covered this 'plot hole' with some sort of super environmental force. I think we can both agree Jiraiya isn't ever coming back. But your information is partially wrong. Jiraiya's body is never stated to be in a chasm nor is it said that the depth is too strong even for the greatest shinobi. The manga (english translation) states the body is deep in the ocean below unfathomable depths. The anime (englished subbed) states the body is deep in the ocean where the pressure is too strong to enter. I can't check on the manga's original raw since I couldn't find it. But I watched the anime to check the Japanese dub. I can translate that it says that Jiraiya's body is in the ocean/sea's depth (深海の中） where one can't enter. It doesn't say anything about pressure (I guess it just implies it). Source: manga - ch 520 pg 14 or shippuden episode 264 Edit: Though the only way to bring Jiraiya back would be the have his DNA (source above), not necessarily his body.
its true that they only need dna, but getting it from where? all the blood he spilled when he fought Pain surely washed away. the fact that its stated that they cant retrieve the body implies there wasn't another way to get the dna (although I guess they could revive him if they somehow found it)
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On March 20 2013 20:48 Mataza wrote:
Does anybody else find it disturbing that Uchiha are actually able to awaken the Rinnegan by severe traumatization, depression and generally being emo?
The Rinnegan is one of the only things we know the sage of the six paths had.
The only other thing is his way of treating the bijuu, which Naruto is kinda aping.
One would think that the great deeds of the sage of the six paths would first be recreated by his senju descendants. Yet the self destructive uchiha clan was the first to recreate part of the sage's power.
Yeah I wonder what will cause Madara to awaken the rinnegan. I mean he already lost all his family, his clan members defected to his rival's side and he lost to hashirama one on one.
I wonder what could be more traumatizing. The realization he can't even beat Hashirama with the kyuubi at his side seems less depressing to me then the previous events but who knows.
Also I think the Uchiha inherited the sage's eye power, the Senju his vitality and chakra reserves, and the Uzumaki clan his sealing skills but don't quote me on this.
So at least some of his talents weren't wasted :D
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On March 20 2013 22:11 Paperplane wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 20:48 Mataza wrote:
Does anybody else find it disturbing that Uchiha are actually able to awaken the Rinnegan by severe traumatization, depression and generally being emo?
The Rinnegan is one of the only things we know the sage of the six paths had.
The only other thing is his way of treating the bijuu, which Naruto is kinda aping.
One would think that the great deeds of the sage of the six paths would first be recreated by his senju descendants. Yet the self destructive uchiha clan was the first to recreate part of the sage's power. Yeah I wonder what will cause Madara to awaken the rinnegan. I mean he already lost all his family, his clan members defected to his rival's side and he lost to hashirama one on one. I wonder what could be more traumatizing. The realization he can't even beat Hashirama with the kyuubi at his side seems less depressing to me then the previous events but who knows. Also I think the Uchiha inherited the sage's eye power, the Senju his vitality and chakra reserves, and the Uzumaki clan his sealing skills but don't quote me on this. So at least some of his talents weren't wasted :D
You don't awaken the rinnegan that way, you awaken the rinnegan by combining sharingan ( I think EMS but I am not sure on this one ) with Senju DNA and he got that DNA somehow from Hashirama after their battle at vote. Besides, Madara is the only one who awakened the rinnegan by himself of all shinobi who came after the so6p so it can't be too easy.
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United States15275 Posts
On March 20 2013 20:48 Mataza wrote:
Does anybody else find it disturbing that Uchiha are actually able to awaken the Rinnegan by severe traumatization, depression and generally being emo?
The Rinnegan is one of the only things we know the sage of the six paths had.
The only other thing is his way of treating the bijuu, which Naruto is kinda aping.
One would think that the great deeds of the sage of the six paths would first be recreated by his senju descendants. Yet the self destructive uchiha clan was the first to recreate part of the sage's power.
Madara awakened the Rinnegan because he is fused with part of Hashirama's body. He required both Senju and Uchiha DNA in order to access the Rinnegan and even then it took years for it to actually materialize (remember how Danzo could never access a fraction of the raw power despite having ten Sharingans and a cloned Hashirama arm). Considering that Nagato could use the implanted Rinnegans perfectly well due to his lineage, it's reasonable to assume that any Senju/Uchiha descendant can do it given the right conditions.
The implication in the manga is that an Uchiha doesn't have a choice in whether he can be "emo" or not. It's his uncontrollable physiological reaction that causes him to act like that. Even then we don't know how accurate Tobirama's description was. Dude's biased as fuck.
Hashirama and Madara already accomplished some feats that are comparable to the Sage.
On March 20 2013 22:40 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 22:11 Paperplane wrote:On March 20 2013 20:48 Mataza wrote:
Does anybody else find it disturbing that Uchiha are actually able to awaken the Rinnegan by severe traumatization, depression and generally being emo?
The Rinnegan is one of the only things we know the sage of the six paths had.
The only other thing is his way of treating the bijuu, which Naruto is kinda aping.
One would think that the great deeds of the sage of the six paths would first be recreated by his senju descendants. Yet the self destructive uchiha clan was the first to recreate part of the sage's power. Yeah I wonder what will cause Madara to awaken the rinnegan. I mean he already lost all his family, his clan members defected to his rival's side and he lost to hashirama one on one. I wonder what could be more traumatizing. The realization he can't even beat Hashirama with the kyuubi at his side seems less depressing to me then the previous events but who knows. Also I think the Uchiha inherited the sage's eye power, the Senju his vitality and chakra reserves, and the Uzumaki clan his sealing skills but don't quote me on this. So at least some of his talents weren't wasted :D You don't awaken the rinnegan that way, you awaken the rinnegan by combining sharingan ( I think EMS but I am not sure on this one ) with Senju DNA and he got that DNA somehow from Hashirama after their battle at vote. Besides, Madara is the only one who awakened the rinnegan by himself of all shinobi who came after the so6p so it can't be too easy.
From all accounts, EMS is required.
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On March 20 2013 22:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 20:48 Mataza wrote:
Does anybody else find it disturbing that Uchiha are actually able to awaken the Rinnegan by severe traumatization, depression and generally being emo?
The Rinnegan is one of the only things we know the sage of the six paths had.
The only other thing is his way of treating the bijuu, which Naruto is kinda aping.
One would think that the great deeds of the sage of the six paths would first be recreated by his senju descendants. Yet the self destructive uchiha clan was the first to recreate part of the sage's power. Madara awakened the Rinnegan because he is fused with part of Hashirama's body. He required both Senju and Uchiha DNA in order to access the Rinnegan and even then it took years for it to actually materialize (remember how Danzo could never access a fraction of the raw power despite having ten Sharingans and a cloned Hashirama arm). Considering that Nagato could use the implanted Rinnegans perfectly well due to his lineage, it's reasonable to assume that any Senju/Uchiha descendant can do it given the right conditions.
he activated it before he died as well by somehow getting dna from Hashirama. hes edo-tensei did it becuse of what you said
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EPT
