|
On January 31 2013 17:24 Emporio wrote:
I disagree partially because there's never been any hinting that the Shinigami seal was breakable. Hell, only two characters are even known to even know how to do it and it's implied they didn't pass it down to anyone else meaning the technique was lost with them. Of course, lots of other seals we thought were unbreakable have been started to get broken (Naruto's Kyuubi seal, Edo tensai zombies freeing themselves, Orochimaru from death itself) so there's no reason why the Shinigami seal isn't breakable. But it's completely untrue to say it's been foreshadowed and hinted at. At best, no one has ever outright said it's impossible or that certain aspect of it were impossible. Just because the story allows a development to happen without contradiction to other parts of the story doesn't mean it was foreshadowed and hinted at; it just means it's allowed to happen.
The whole mask thing too, that came out of nowhere as well. Sure, the Uzumaki's were known for their use of seals, but the fact that they have a house full of masks that allow them to summon the seal bearers themselves? Completely out of left field.
I won't call it a dues ex machina, because it's not blatantly creating a solution out of nowhere. But it's definitely close to that line.
On January 31 2013 22:55 AsnSensation wrote:
reviving the 4 hokages one of Kishi's most respectable plot developments? haha thats hilarious.
Of course it's easy to say that it was "obvious" that the 4 hokages had the be revived now that Oro actually did it.
I can't speak for everyone obviously but I'm pretty sure the majority of the readers were sure that the Hokages would not be edo tensei'd and didn't notice the apparently obvious implications that they are coming back you claim there to be.
They way I see it is that
1. Kabuto said those 4 cannot be ressurected because they were sealed in the shinigami belly.
2. Oro magically finds a way to do it.
Shounen Mangas usually don't provide explainations for certain things only to be contradicted a few chapters later. For me that's just bad writing and bad foresight in Kishi's part who probably didn't even plan to bring them back at that point.
One thing I agree with you though is that this is one of the most logical plot developments after Kishi decided to bring back Oro with super secret knowledge and Give Madara godlike immortality status who can 1 vs 100.000 the entire allied army.
Imo Kishi's decision to utilize Edo Tensei may have provided lots of fanservice but also opened up space for plotholes and lots of bullshit asspull claims.
You guys don't give Kishi enough credit. It's not like he makes this stuff up every week as he goes along -- he's had the major plot developments more-or-less planned out for years. Let's take this particular instance for example:
- Jugo and Suigetsu found the secret scroll in Chapter 574. That was almost a year ago. So Kishi has been planning this for well over a year.
- A very common theme throughout Naruto is that every seal can be broken, and that every jutsu has a weakness. Plus Kishi has explained the exact workings of the Death Reaper Seal over and over. If that's not foreshadowing, I don't know what is.
- The Uzumaki clan is known for their sealing techniques, so it's not a surprise that their clan would be somehow involved. Why does it matter, exactly, if this particular jutsu involves masks, or hand seals, or scrolls, or whatever? Who cares what the method is?
- Orochimaru is the most knowledgable ninja in the world. He has done by far the most extensive research into how jutsus work, and has stated multiple times that his goal is to learn everything. He is the only one (besides Naruto) to have interacted with the Death Reaper Seal and survived, so it's obviously no surprise that he would be interested in researching such an amazing technique. And he had an extremely powerful incentive to reverse the seal and regain use of his arms. Complaining about him researching a way to undo the seal is like complaining that 2+2=4.
- This guy here predicted exactly what was on the scroll over 8 months ago. How did he accomplish that? Because he took the available evidence and made an educated and intelligent guess.
There are many instances where Kishi writes complete shit. But this is not one of those times. It's nowhere near deus ex machina. Rather, it's finely-tuned plot development that's been in the making for years, and it's a shame that so many people don't appreciate the subtleties that make it great.
And @AsnSensation: There's no contradiction there. Kabuto couldn't resurrect the 4 Hokages, because resurrection only works if your soul is in the Pure world, and their souls were not. Therefore in order to resurrect them, Orochimaru had to free their souls into the Pure world first. What, exactly, is so hard to understand about that? I'm tired of people bashing this manga because of their own personal failure to understand basic plot points.
|
On February 01 2013 09:23 17Sphynx17 wrote:
I just thought of something. Oro has taken over a body with hashirama cells. As such, should he have an 'extra' sharingan in storage he could actually put it in his eye socket and try getting the rinnegan now.
Doubt the story would go there but there is potential.
Also, i wonder when kabuto did his cells and bloodlines infusion, did he manage to infuse uchiha and hahirama based blood into his system? Orochimaru had the dna in stock so im just curious.
Cheers!
the zetsus are too watered down to pull this off i think
|
I have to agree that the writer of naruto is pretty much pulling stuff out of his ass right now. If oro knew about the seal how come he didnt release his hands from the seal rather than facing the fifth hokage and jiayra back in the beginning chapters? How does kabuto bring back prime madara, when he cant even bring back prime pain? Seriously how does oro kill himself and still not be dead?
|
On February 01 2013 13:48 BreakerD wrote:
I have to agree that the writer of naruto is pretty much pulling stuff out of his ass right now. If oro knew about the seal how come he didnt release his hands from the seal rather than facing the fifth hokage and jiayra back in the beginning chapters? How does kabuto bring back prime madara, when he cant even bring back prime pain? Seriously how does oro kill himself and still not be dead?
1. he had to be able to switch bodies in order to pull off the strategy he demonstrated, so he had to wait 3 years in order to get new arms talking to tsunade was plan A
2. thats impossible to say it could be as a way to hide the incoming plot twist (madara being alive and went old) the edo tensei might be based of when you take the DNA, as in Kabuto found DNA of madara in his prime but only had DNA from nagato when nagato was near death
3. Oro can switch his soul into a new body once every 3 years, he killed his body then transfered to one of the Zetsus
|
On February 01 2013 11:39 Courthead wrote:- The Uzumaki clan is known for their sealing techniques, so it's not a surprise that their clan would be somehow involved. Why does it matter, exactly, if this particular jutsu involves masks, or hand seals, or scrolls, or whatever? Who cares what the method is?
The thing that doesn't make sense to me regarding that is how easy it was to obtain. Surely the Uzumaki clan knew that the masks had summoning powers, so why would they leave something so dangerous out in the open like that? If anything, I expected them to be kept somewhere secret, like how the Uchiha clan has their secret room. It seems a little far-fetched to me that something so potent was just left there for anyone to walk by and grab.
|
On February 01 2013 14:04 Ario wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 11:39 Courthead wrote:- The Uzumaki clan is known for their sealing techniques, so it's not a surprise that their clan would be somehow involved. Why does it matter, exactly, if this particular jutsu involves masks, or hand seals, or scrolls, or whatever? Who cares what the method is?
The thing that doesn't make sense to me regarding that is how easy it was to obtain. Surely the Uzumaki clan knew that the masks had summoning powers, so why would they leave something so dangerous out in the open like that? If anything, I expected them to be kept somewhere secret, like how the Uchiha clan has their secret room. It seems a little far-fetched to me that something so potent was just left there for anyone to walk by and grab.
it was hanging on a wall with dozens of masks just like it supposedly the Uzumakis failed to pass on the secret of the mask before there demise which and then the shrine was forgotten and abandoned and left to ruin so whatever defenses the shrine would normally have would have faded long ago
Orochimaru was probably the only person alive who knew what the mask was and how to get it
|
On February 01 2013 14:07 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 14:04 Ario wrote:On February 01 2013 11:39 Courthead wrote:- The Uzumaki clan is known for their sealing techniques, so it's not a surprise that their clan would be somehow involved. Why does it matter, exactly, if this particular jutsu involves masks, or hand seals, or scrolls, or whatever? Who cares what the method is?
The thing that doesn't make sense to me regarding that is how easy it was to obtain. Surely the Uzumaki clan knew that the masks had summoning powers, so why would they leave something so dangerous out in the open like that? If anything, I expected them to be kept somewhere secret, like how the Uchiha clan has their secret room. It seems a little far-fetched to me that something so potent was just left there for anyone to walk by and grab. it was hanging on a wall with dozens of masks just like it supposedly the Uzumakis failed to pass on the secret of the mask before there demise which and then the shrine was forgotten and abandoned and left to ruin so whatever defenses the shrine would normally have would have faded long ago Orochimaru was probably the only person alive who knew what the mask was and how to get it
That's a flimsy excuse at best. We've been shown plenty of times how protective every clan and village are of their secrets. Why would the Uzumaki clan be an exception? Even if nobody knows their secret, it makes no sense to put one of their most powerful weapons on a wall just for a bit of decor. You don't see any of the other clans leave their secret weapons out in the open.
|
On February 01 2013 14:44 Ario wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 14:07 Forikorder wrote:On February 01 2013 14:04 Ario wrote:On February 01 2013 11:39 Courthead wrote:- The Uzumaki clan is known for their sealing techniques, so it's not a surprise that their clan would be somehow involved. Why does it matter, exactly, if this particular jutsu involves masks, or hand seals, or scrolls, or whatever? Who cares what the method is?
The thing that doesn't make sense to me regarding that is how easy it was to obtain. Surely the Uzumaki clan knew that the masks had summoning powers, so why would they leave something so dangerous out in the open like that? If anything, I expected them to be kept somewhere secret, like how the Uchiha clan has their secret room. It seems a little far-fetched to me that something so potent was just left there for anyone to walk by and grab. it was hanging on a wall with dozens of masks just like it supposedly the Uzumakis failed to pass on the secret of the mask before there demise which and then the shrine was forgotten and abandoned and left to ruin so whatever defenses the shrine would normally have would have faded long ago Orochimaru was probably the only person alive who knew what the mask was and how to get it That's a flimsy excuse at best. We've been shown plenty of times how protective every clan and village are of their secrets. Why would the Uzumaki clan be an exception? Even if nobody knows their secret, it makes no sense to put one of their most powerful weapons on a wall just for a bit of decor. You don't see any of the other clans leave their secret weapons out in the open.
Maybe every other mask will kill the wearer (and/or everyone in the area) instead of summoning the reaper
|
On February 01 2013 14:44 Ario wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 14:07 Forikorder wrote:On February 01 2013 14:04 Ario wrote:On February 01 2013 11:39 Courthead wrote:- The Uzumaki clan is known for their sealing techniques, so it's not a surprise that their clan would be somehow involved. Why does it matter, exactly, if this particular jutsu involves masks, or hand seals, or scrolls, or whatever? Who cares what the method is?
The thing that doesn't make sense to me regarding that is how easy it was to obtain. Surely the Uzumaki clan knew that the masks had summoning powers, so why would they leave something so dangerous out in the open like that? If anything, I expected them to be kept somewhere secret, like how the Uchiha clan has their secret room. It seems a little far-fetched to me that something so potent was just left there for anyone to walk by and grab. it was hanging on a wall with dozens of masks just like it supposedly the Uzumakis failed to pass on the secret of the mask before there demise which and then the shrine was forgotten and abandoned and left to ruin so whatever defenses the shrine would normally have would have faded long ago Orochimaru was probably the only person alive who knew what the mask was and how to get it That's a flimsy excuse at best. We've been shown plenty of times how protective every clan and village are of their secrets. Why would the Uzumaki clan be an exception? Even if nobody knows their secret, it makes no sense to put one of their most powerful weapons on a wall just for a bit of decor. You don't see any of the other clans leave their secret weapons out in the open.
I'd imagine every other mask on the wall is cursed or something to prevent people from just trying them all on. A best place to hide something is in plain sight type thing.
|
On February 01 2013 14:44 Ario wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 14:07 Forikorder wrote:On February 01 2013 14:04 Ario wrote:On February 01 2013 11:39 Courthead wrote:- The Uzumaki clan is known for their sealing techniques, so it's not a surprise that their clan would be somehow involved. Why does it matter, exactly, if this particular jutsu involves masks, or hand seals, or scrolls, or whatever? Who cares what the method is?
The thing that doesn't make sense to me regarding that is how easy it was to obtain. Surely the Uzumaki clan knew that the masks had summoning powers, so why would they leave something so dangerous out in the open like that? If anything, I expected them to be kept somewhere secret, like how the Uchiha clan has their secret room. It seems a little far-fetched to me that something so potent was just left there for anyone to walk by and grab. it was hanging on a wall with dozens of masks just like it supposedly the Uzumakis failed to pass on the secret of the mask before there demise which and then the shrine was forgotten and abandoned and left to ruin so whatever defenses the shrine would normally have would have faded long ago Orochimaru was probably the only person alive who knew what the mask was and how to get it That's a flimsy excuse at best. We've been shown plenty of times how protective every clan and village are of their secrets. Why would the Uzumaki clan be an exception? Even if nobody knows their secret, it makes no sense to put one of their most powerful weapons on a wall just for a bit of decor. You don't see any of the other clans leave their secret weapons out in the open.
pwerful weapon? how you figure that?
did you see Minato put on the mask? did you see the Third put on the mask?
the mask probably cant be used to perform the reaper death seal how it was created well probably never know (if the Uzumaki clan ever made it) but if anyone managed to get it and wear it all that will happen is theyll freak out and more likely then not wind up as dead as Orochimarus discarded corpse
and the mask probably was well protected its jsut since all its protecters died and noone knew it was something of value it was left to rot
when the Uzumaki clan was at its best it was probably impossible for anyone to even enter the shrine without there permission (or enough force) and the rest of the masks are probably traps most deadly
|
On February 01 2013 14:52 Skullflower wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 14:44 Ario wrote:On February 01 2013 14:07 Forikorder wrote:On February 01 2013 14:04 Ario wrote:On February 01 2013 11:39 Courthead wrote:- The Uzumaki clan is known for their sealing techniques, so it's not a surprise that their clan would be somehow involved. Why does it matter, exactly, if this particular jutsu involves masks, or hand seals, or scrolls, or whatever? Who cares what the method is?
The thing that doesn't make sense to me regarding that is how easy it was to obtain. Surely the Uzumaki clan knew that the masks had summoning powers, so why would they leave something so dangerous out in the open like that? If anything, I expected them to be kept somewhere secret, like how the Uchiha clan has their secret room. It seems a little far-fetched to me that something so potent was just left there for anyone to walk by and grab. it was hanging on a wall with dozens of masks just like it supposedly the Uzumakis failed to pass on the secret of the mask before there demise which and then the shrine was forgotten and abandoned and left to ruin so whatever defenses the shrine would normally have would have faded long ago Orochimaru was probably the only person alive who knew what the mask was and how to get it That's a flimsy excuse at best. We've been shown plenty of times how protective every clan and village are of their secrets. Why would the Uzumaki clan be an exception? Even if nobody knows their secret, it makes no sense to put one of their most powerful weapons on a wall just for a bit of decor. You don't see any of the other clans leave their secret weapons out in the open. I'd imagine every other mask on the wall is cursed or something to prevent people from just trying them all on. A best place to hide something is in plain sight type thing.
Lol imagine if you put on the wrong mask you got reaper death sealed.
|
|
|
its the little things that seperate the good from the great
|
that's a really nice find, thanks :D
reminds me of a saying, "the world reflects your heart"
|
Question: Why did kishi have one extra zetsu left instead of just exactly 5?
Answer: One more edo tensei. (of rin)
I suppose knowing oro he still has some kind of unknown trump card in the form of a summon or rinnegan activation if he can pull a sharingan now that he has senju cells. I'm sure he's collected some.
BTW why the fuck is madara in his prime?
+ Show Spoiler +
|
On February 01 2013 15:30 ETisME wrote:that's a really nice find, thanks :D reminds me of a saying, "the world reflects your heart"
Yah I was thinking how that pole looks familiar.
Also note that the village was rebuilt as well.
|
TLADT24920 Posts
On February 01 2013 14:44 Ario wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 14:07 Forikorder wrote:On February 01 2013 14:04 Ario wrote:On February 01 2013 11:39 Courthead wrote:- The Uzumaki clan is known for their sealing techniques, so it's not a surprise that their clan would be somehow involved. Why does it matter, exactly, if this particular jutsu involves masks, or hand seals, or scrolls, or whatever? Who cares what the method is?
The thing that doesn't make sense to me regarding that is how easy it was to obtain. Surely the Uzumaki clan knew that the masks had summoning powers, so why would they leave something so dangerous out in the open like that? If anything, I expected them to be kept somewhere secret, like how the Uchiha clan has their secret room. It seems a little far-fetched to me that something so potent was just left there for anyone to walk by and grab. it was hanging on a wall with dozens of masks just like it supposedly the Uzumakis failed to pass on the secret of the mask before there demise which and then the shrine was forgotten and abandoned and left to ruin so whatever defenses the shrine would normally have would have faded long ago Orochimaru was probably the only person alive who knew what the mask was and how to get it That's a flimsy excuse at best. We've been shown plenty of times how protective every clan and village are of their secrets. Why would the Uzumaki clan be an exception? Even if nobody knows their secret, it makes no sense to put one of their most powerful weapons on a wall just for a bit of decor. You don't see any of the other clans leave their secret weapons out in the open.
The other masks could be traps so that you can't just try each one on and I personally don't see any major flaws with what happened in this lastest chapter even though edo tensei is starting to get old now lol.
|
On February 01 2013 15:45 b3n3tt3 wrote:Question: Why did kishi have one extra zetsu left instead of just exactly 5? Answer: One more edo tensei. (of rin) I suppose knowing oro he still has some kind of unknown trump card in the form of a summon or rinnegan activation if he can pull a sharingan now that he has senju cells. I'm sure he's collected some. BTW why the fuck is madara in his prime? + Show Spoiler +
maybe he was reincarnated as an old man and Kabuto decided there wasnt enough intimidation factor so had madara use a transformation to look like hes in his prime
unlike Nagato Madara kept good care of his body, he could still move around pretty well at his old age (evidenced by him being able to do things like nab obito, steal a spare eye and give Nagato his eyes) so his old body wouldnt affect his movement much the only disconnect is his apearence and thats easy to fake
and for fucks sake there no way that Oro revives Rin, Oro doesnt even know that Rin exists and certainly doesnt have any of her DNA Obito probably took her body somewhere or something
and even if he does bring Rin back WTF would that even solve? absolutely nothing
|
Well, with regards to the remaining white zetsu clone, I would argue that its purpose is to ultimately defeat Zetsu as a whole. Oro said he basically knows from what Kabuto has further research things about Zetsu already. So he may use that as a trump card in terms of controlling, disabling or simply just disrupting every Zetsu or killing the Zetsu tree that is holding that wood guy. (haha! I can't for the life of me suddenly remember his name).
That's my guess though.
|
On February 01 2013 14:47 Pseudoku wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 14:44 Ario wrote:On February 01 2013 14:07 Forikorder wrote:On February 01 2013 14:04 Ario wrote:On February 01 2013 11:39 Courthead wrote:- The Uzumaki clan is known for their sealing techniques, so it's not a surprise that their clan would be somehow involved. Why does it matter, exactly, if this particular jutsu involves masks, or hand seals, or scrolls, or whatever? Who cares what the method is?
The thing that doesn't make sense to me regarding that is how easy it was to obtain. Surely the Uzumaki clan knew that the masks had summoning powers, so why would they leave something so dangerous out in the open like that? If anything, I expected them to be kept somewhere secret, like how the Uchiha clan has their secret room. It seems a little far-fetched to me that something so potent was just left there for anyone to walk by and grab. it was hanging on a wall with dozens of masks just like it supposedly the Uzumakis failed to pass on the secret of the mask before there demise which and then the shrine was forgotten and abandoned and left to ruin so whatever defenses the shrine would normally have would have faded long ago Orochimaru was probably the only person alive who knew what the mask was and how to get it That's a flimsy excuse at best. We've been shown plenty of times how protective every clan and village are of their secrets. Why would the Uzumaki clan be an exception? Even if nobody knows their secret, it makes no sense to put one of their most powerful weapons on a wall just for a bit of decor. You don't see any of the other clans leave their secret weapons out in the open. Maybe every other mask will kill the wearer (and/or everyone in the area) instead of summoning the reaper
what if some kids were playing at that area and they put on those masks. One would assume that someone would have done anything to that place since ages ago.
Bad writing. Very bad.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
