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On August 24 2012 17:51 TheBrunk wrote:
Hmm if its Izuna behind the mask, shouldn't he have Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan where his eye would look like a mixture between his Mangekyou sharingan and obito's Mangekyou sharingan? Am I missing something? Only thing I can think of is incompatibility but if that was the case would Izuna be able to even access just normal Mangekyou Sharingan? Page 8 of recent chapter shows Tobi's eye compared to kakashi's.
Very good point, that means Tobi is either Obito, OR not an uchiha. Or the eternal sharringan should have awakened. If he's not an uchiha though, there is a lot of explaining to do with regards to him not going blind from overuse or getting completely drained of chakara like kakashi
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On August 24 2012 21:03 Mogget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 17:51 TheBrunk wrote:
Hmm if its Izuna behind the mask, shouldn't he have Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan where his eye would look like a mixture between his Mangekyou sharingan and obito's Mangekyou sharingan? Am I missing something? Only thing I can think of is incompatibility but if that was the case would Izuna be able to even access just normal Mangekyou Sharingan? Page 8 of recent chapter shows Tobi's eye compared to kakashi's. Very good point, that means Tobi is either Obito, OR not an uchiha. Or the eternal sharringan should have awakened. If he's not an uchiha though, there is a lot of explaining to do with regards to him not going blind from overuse or getting completely drained of chakara like kakashi
Technically no. To get an Eternal Mangekyou the person's eyes who you stole from needs to already be a mangekyou. When Obito died he only had two tomoe on his otherwise normal sharingan.
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On August 24 2012 23:43 Kaien wrote:the main reason why it cant be Izuna: + Show Spoiler +he died a long time ago..
Well, so did Tobi and Madara...
Besides, keep in mind that if Tobi IS Izuna and pretends to be Madara, he wouldn't tell Sasuke that he's alive. That would make no sense. We can't be certain that Izuna really died since the only one who said so would be Izuna.
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On August 24 2012 22:33 No0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 21:03 Mogget wrote:On August 24 2012 17:51 TheBrunk wrote:
Hmm if its Izuna behind the mask, shouldn't he have Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan where his eye would look like a mixture between his Mangekyou sharingan and obito's Mangekyou sharingan? Am I missing something? Only thing I can think of is incompatibility but if that was the case would Izuna be able to even access just normal Mangekyou Sharingan? Page 8 of recent chapter shows Tobi's eye compared to kakashi's. Very good point, that means Tobi is either Obito, OR not an uchiha. Or the eternal sharringan should have awakened. If he's not an uchiha though, there is a lot of explaining to do with regards to him not going blind from overuse or getting completely drained of chakara like kakashi Technically no. To get an Eternal Mangekyou the person's eyes who you stole from needs to already be a mangekyou. When Obito died he only had two tomoe on his otherwise normal sharingan.
To get an EMS we know they need to pluck out the eyes and essentially merge the 2 pairs together. So 2 people with mangekyo only make 1 pair of EMS. Izuna gave/lost his original eyes to madara so that madara would have EMS. This means izuna had no eyes at this point. If he took someone else's eyes it would be like giving kakashi who lost 1 eye a completely new one. It's not the merging that EMS is. Tobi also appears to be uchiha blood considering he isn't exhausted from non-stop use of the sharingan. I don't know how he's not blind though considering he's constantly using his eyes. Perhaps having senju cells from hashirama helps that, considering it did have benefits for danzou's sharingan as well.
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On August 25 2012 05:05 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:33 No0n wrote:On August 24 2012 21:03 Mogget wrote:On August 24 2012 17:51 TheBrunk wrote:
Hmm if its Izuna behind the mask, shouldn't he have Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan where his eye would look like a mixture between his Mangekyou sharingan and obito's Mangekyou sharingan? Am I missing something? Only thing I can think of is incompatibility but if that was the case would Izuna be able to even access just normal Mangekyou Sharingan? Page 8 of recent chapter shows Tobi's eye compared to kakashi's. Very good point, that means Tobi is either Obito, OR not an uchiha. Or the eternal sharringan should have awakened. If he's not an uchiha though, there is a lot of explaining to do with regards to him not going blind from overuse or getting completely drained of chakara like kakashi Technically no. To get an Eternal Mangekyou the person's eyes who you stole from needs to already be a mangekyou. When Obito died he only had two tomoe on his otherwise normal sharingan. To get an EMS we know they need to pluck out the eyes and essentially merge the 2 pairs together. So 2 people with mangekyo only make 1 pair of EMS. Izuna gave/lost his original eyes to madara so that madara would have EMS. This means izuna had no eyes at this point. If he took someone else's eyes it would be like giving kakashi who lost 1 eye a completely new one. It's not the merging that EMS is. Tobi also appears to be uchiha blood considering he isn't exhausted from non-stop use of the sharingan. I don't know how he's not blind though considering he's constantly using his eyes. Perhaps having senju cells from hashirama helps that, considering it did have benefits for danzou's sharingan as well.
If I recall correctly, only the use of MS blinds a Uchiha, and he almost never go MS.
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On August 25 2012 05:09 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:05 BlackPaladin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:33 No0n wrote:On August 24 2012 21:03 Mogget wrote:On August 24 2012 17:51 TheBrunk wrote:
Hmm if its Izuna behind the mask, shouldn't he have Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan where his eye would look like a mixture between his Mangekyou sharingan and obito's Mangekyou sharingan? Am I missing something? Only thing I can think of is incompatibility but if that was the case would Izuna be able to even access just normal Mangekyou Sharingan? Page 8 of recent chapter shows Tobi's eye compared to kakashi's. Very good point, that means Tobi is either Obito, OR not an uchiha. Or the eternal sharringan should have awakened. If he's not an uchiha though, there is a lot of explaining to do with regards to him not going blind from overuse or getting completely drained of chakara like kakashi Technically no. To get an Eternal Mangekyou the person's eyes who you stole from needs to already be a mangekyou. When Obito died he only had two tomoe on his otherwise normal sharingan. To get an EMS we know they need to pluck out the eyes and essentially merge the 2 pairs together. So 2 people with mangekyo only make 1 pair of EMS. Izuna gave/lost his original eyes to madara so that madara would have EMS. This means izuna had no eyes at this point. If he took someone else's eyes it would be like giving kakashi who lost 1 eye a completely new one. It's not the merging that EMS is. Tobi also appears to be uchiha blood considering he isn't exhausted from non-stop use of the sharingan. I don't know how he's not blind though considering he's constantly using his eyes. Perhaps having senju cells from hashirama helps that, considering it did have benefits for danzou's sharingan as well. If I recall correctly, only the use of MS blinds a Uchiha, and he almost never go MS.
MS is what grants abilities beyond the basic sharingan abilities. I.E. Whenever Tobi fades through people, or sucks things in, or re-locates himself with his eye. He is using MS abilities.
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On August 25 2012 05:05 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:33 No0n wrote:On August 24 2012 21:03 Mogget wrote:On August 24 2012 17:51 TheBrunk wrote:
Hmm if its Izuna behind the mask, shouldn't he have Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan where his eye would look like a mixture between his Mangekyou sharingan and obito's Mangekyou sharingan? Am I missing something? Only thing I can think of is incompatibility but if that was the case would Izuna be able to even access just normal Mangekyou Sharingan? Page 8 of recent chapter shows Tobi's eye compared to kakashi's. Very good point, that means Tobi is either Obito, OR not an uchiha. Or the eternal sharringan should have awakened. If he's not an uchiha though, there is a lot of explaining to do with regards to him not going blind from overuse or getting completely drained of chakara like kakashi Technically no. To get an Eternal Mangekyou the person's eyes who you stole from needs to already be a mangekyou. When Obito died he only had two tomoe on his otherwise normal sharingan. To get an EMS we know they need to pluck out the eyes and essentially merge the 2 pairs together. So 2 people with mangekyo only make 1 pair of EMS. Izuna gave/lost his original eyes to madara so that madara would have EMS. This means izuna had no eyes at this point. If he took someone else's eyes it would be like giving kakashi who lost 1 eye a completely new one. It's not the merging that EMS is. Tobi also appears to be uchiha blood considering he isn't exhausted from non-stop use of the sharingan. I don't know how he's not blind though considering he's constantly using his eyes. Perhaps having senju cells from hashirama helps that, considering it did have benefits for danzou's sharingan as well.
Could you link to where it says they merge eyes? As far as i can remember, you just need new eyes.
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On August 25 2012 05:16 Mogget wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:05 BlackPaladin wrote:On August 24 2012 22:33 No0n wrote:On August 24 2012 21:03 Mogget wrote:On August 24 2012 17:51 TheBrunk wrote:
Hmm if its Izuna behind the mask, shouldn't he have Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan where his eye would look like a mixture between his Mangekyou sharingan and obito's Mangekyou sharingan? Am I missing something? Only thing I can think of is incompatibility but if that was the case would Izuna be able to even access just normal Mangekyou Sharingan? Page 8 of recent chapter shows Tobi's eye compared to kakashi's. Very good point, that means Tobi is either Obito, OR not an uchiha. Or the eternal sharringan should have awakened. If he's not an uchiha though, there is a lot of explaining to do with regards to him not going blind from overuse or getting completely drained of chakara like kakashi Technically no. To get an Eternal Mangekyou the person's eyes who you stole from needs to already be a mangekyou. When Obito died he only had two tomoe on his otherwise normal sharingan. To get an EMS we know they need to pluck out the eyes and essentially merge the 2 pairs together. So 2 people with mangekyo only make 1 pair of EMS. Izuna gave/lost his original eyes to madara so that madara would have EMS. This means izuna had no eyes at this point. If he took someone else's eyes it would be like giving kakashi who lost 1 eye a completely new one. It's not the merging that EMS is. Tobi also appears to be uchiha blood considering he isn't exhausted from non-stop use of the sharingan. I don't know how he's not blind though considering he's constantly using his eyes. Perhaps having senju cells from hashirama helps that, considering it did have benefits for danzou's sharingan as well. Could you link to where it says they merge eyes? As far as i can remember, you just need new eyes.
As far as I know it has never been precisely explained. But I've always considered the same. You just get new eyes and your MS merge.
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it's never been said you have to merge the eyes, they say you just have to take the eyes of your rival/brother/etc.... I've always wondered, why didn't izuna and madara just swap fucking eyes, BOOM, double mangekyo. I remember this thought when they FIRST explained the eternal mangekyo, and it never got disproved wouldn't work other than us spectators who 'assumed' it would be 'stupid' if it was like that... seriously, the only person who ever said Izuna died, was Tobi, who (at the time) we thought was madara, but since we see Madara on the battle field, if Tobi IS Izuna, obviously he'd lie about who he is and would simply say he died because this keeps his true identity shrouded in mystery. The guy fucking lives his life behind a mask, he obviously thrives by living behind the shadows. He's a mastermind who's set this whole thing in motion since being foiled by Minato, and was a mastermind then too, he just underestimated how strong Minato would be. I agree with Fenrax... i want tobi to be revealed because these fucking discussions of WHO IS TOBI is just getting fucking retarded now.
love the analogy with hansel and gretel. it's exactly how i've felt forever.
a) can't be
b) yes it can... <insert nonsensical reason>
a) nope <refute with logic>
b) no! <insert more nonsensical reason to try to prove original point>
a) wut.
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The first person reveal madara took his own brother's eyes wasn't tobi, it was mother fucking itachi during sasuke vs itachi fight.
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On August 24 2012 00:44 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 00:39 Forikorder wrote:On August 24 2012 00:38 FakeDeath wrote:On August 24 2012 00:30 Forikorder wrote:On August 24 2012 00:27 FakeDeath wrote:On August 24 2012 00:18 Forikorder wrote:On August 24 2012 00:17 FakeDeath wrote:On August 24 2012 00:14 Forikorder wrote:On August 24 2012 00:07 FakeDeath wrote:On August 24 2012 00:01 Forikorder wrote:
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im jsut pointing out that its not nearly as crazy as people seem to think that Tobi is Obito It is crazy for Tobi to be Obito actually.It fucking doesn't make sense. 15 year old kid having the power to control Kyuubi? That is cute indeed lol. Obito turning from low-tier(he was the worst among Kakashi generation) to God-Tier in a matter of 1-2 years with so much knowledge and power is so unreasonable. Not even the prodigy of the prodigies(Sasuke, Itachi) can achieve that much power . Sasuke could control the Kyuubi when hey first met after the time skip, controlling the Kyuubi isnt that hard and hes not god tier he just has super hax eyes that do all the work for him Sasuke was not controlling Kyuubi.He was just suppressing the Kyuubi chakra within Naruto subconscious. exactly he controlled the Kyuubi if the Kyuubi was outside Naruto he could ahve had it dancing a jig point is any uchiha can control the 9 tails its not that special the only hard part is getting close enough to it to cast the jutsu but with Tobis power thats easy mode You are just making up a scenario " IF X does that, Y goes like that ". how am i making up a scenario? Sasuke showed that hes completely able to control the Kyuubi Then tell me when Sasuke completely control Kyuubi when the Kyuubi is in Naruto stomach. Sasuke has shown he can suppress the Kyuubi chakra within Naruto subconscious. why does it matter if its within Narutos subconcious? Sasuke said go the kyuubi went, unwillingly Sasuke was just suppressing the Kyuubi chakra...................He was not controlling it. This is what i called " controlling "http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v53/c501/8.html Sasuke never did that to the Kyuubi within Naruto subconscious. Not to mention during that period Sasuke was stronger than Naruto and Naruto was exhausted after fighting against Orochimaru during his rage transformation into the four-tailed form.
Tobi couldnt ahve dont that i Kushina wasnt in the middle of giving birth
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On August 25 2012 06:39 rei wrote:
The first person reveal madara took his own brother's eyes wasn't tobi, it was mother fucking itachi during sasuke vs itachi fight.
I stand corrected, but still, that's all we know, there was no explanation of why couldn't izuna just take madaras in return, or take some lesser persons in the clan, to provide him with vision again (maybe not mangekyo). Tobi is the first one who elaborates more about the entire uchiha backstory though revealing more than we initially knew, especially since itachi was just leading sasuke along.
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On August 25 2012 06:39 rei wrote:
The first person reveal madara took his own brother's eyes wasn't tobi, it was mother fucking itachi during sasuke vs itachi fight.
and how did Itachi know? unless itachi is over 100 years old he wasnt there so he got the information the same way Sasuke did
why are we even arguing about this? even if its Izuna it would still look like Kakashis eye because Izuna didnt ahve an eye to combine with Obitos and no reason to combine Obitos with another since tis possible that could dillute the technique
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I think itachi found out from the Uchiha hide out tablets. Remember he told sasuke to read it too, it holds all the secret about the Uchiha powers, it even talks about how to control summon creatures, and sasuke used that knowledge to control that huge snake pet of orochimaru. And there are different levels of secret, in order to read the different levels of the tablet the person has to first process a regular sharingan, and then a MS, and then the Rinnegan for it's final secrets. I'm sure the first level of secret talks about how to gain the MS, and the second level secret will talk about how to get the Eternal MS. And then the final level of secrets talks about the power of the Rinnegan and more. And the person who made these tablets is likely madara, as he's the first one to achieve the eternal MS, as for the Rinnegan information, he didn't get the Rinnegan until the very end of his life after he lost the fight vs the 1st hokage. So He could have use the last ounce of his power to write a script on how to obtain the rinnagan and how his followers could use this information to create the Rinnagan in order to revive madara himself, remember how Tobi said nagato was suppose to use that reviving power for him instead of using it for the leaf village dead ppl? this is also why madara has knowledge of nagato when he was summoned by kabuto. This is the simplest explanation you can deduce given the facts we have.
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I think itachi found out from the Uchiha hide out tablets. Remember he told sasuke to read it too, it holds all the secret about the Uchiha powers, it even talks about how to control summon creatures, and sasuke used that knowledge to control that huge snake pet of orochimaru.
i think thats different, its been stated as Cannon that the Sharingan specifically can control the 9 tails especailly
what he did to the snake was just a normal genjutsu
And there are different levels of secret, in order to read the different levels of the tablet the person has to first process a regular sharingan, and then a MS, and then the Rinnegan for it's final secrets. I'm sure the first level of secret talks about how to gain the MS, and the second level secret will talk about how to get the Eternal MS. And then the final level of secrets talks about the power of the Rinnegan and more. And the person who made these tablets is likely madara, as he's the first one to achieve the eternal MS, as for the Rinnegan information, he didn't get the Rinnegan until the very end of his life after he lost the fight vs the 1st hokage. So He could have use the last ounce of his power to write a script on how to obtain the rinnagan and how his followers could use this information to create the Rinnagan in order to revive madara himself, remember how Tobi said nagato was suppose to use that reviving power for him instead of using it for the leaf village dead ppl? this is also why madara has knowledge of nagato when he was summoned by kabuto. This is the simplest explanation you can deduce given the facts we have.
so Madara wrote how to get the rinnegan that can only be read by those who have the rinnegan?
i assume you meant "needs EMS to read"
also i dont think Nagato could have revived Madara, seems to be a time period where you have to ressurect them within that time for them to come back as anything but a mindless zombie that he used as puppets
if he could ressurect someone as dead as madara then his BFF wouldnt be being used as a puppet
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I don't think nagato could simply revive madara, unless there is a trick through the geko thingy that rinnegan can summon which allows nagato to browse through the pure world to find madara's soul. but that's too far out there with no facts to back it up, all we know about this geko thingy is that he will suck up ppl's soul and store them if it's summon in the impure world, we don't know if it works the same in the pure world.
and yes I missed a level in my explanation, you need EMS to read the part about how to gain the Rinnagan.
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On August 25 2012 09:30 rei wrote:
I don't think nagato could simply revive madara, unless there is a trick through the geko thingy that rinnegan can summon which allows nagato to browse through the pure world to find madara's soul. but that's too far out there with no facts to back it up, all we know about this geko thingy is that he will suck up ppl's soul and store them if it's summon in the impure world, we don't know if it works the same in the pure world.
and yes I missed a level in my explanation, you need EMS to read the part about how to gain the Rinnagan.
we know he has the king thing that can ressurect people, and we know following his explanation before he mass rezzed Konoha that he has to ressurect them a short time after tehy die for them to actually come back
since we used the king thing fix the broken pains presumably it brings back the dead bodies back to life but since they died too long ago there soul doesnt come back so they jsut become a vegetable taht can be easily manipulated by the black rods
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On August 25 2012 09:19 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +I think itachi found out from the Uchiha hide out tablets. Remember he told sasuke to read it too, it holds all the secret about the Uchiha powers, it even talks about how to control summon creatures, and sasuke used that knowledge to control that huge snake pet of orochimaru. i think thats different, its been stated as Cannon that the Sharingan specifically can control the 9 tails especailly what he did to the snake was just a normal genjutsu Show nested quote +And there are different levels of secret, in order to read the different levels of the tablet the person has to first process a regular sharingan, and then a MS, and then the Rinnegan for it's final secrets. I'm sure the first level of secret talks about how to gain the MS, and the second level secret will talk about how to get the Eternal MS. And then the final level of secrets talks about the power of the Rinnegan and more. And the person who made these tablets is likely madara, as he's the first one to achieve the eternal MS, as for the Rinnegan information, he didn't get the Rinnegan until the very end of his life after he lost the fight vs the 1st hokage. So He could have use the last ounce of his power to write a script on how to obtain the rinnagan and how his followers could use this information to create the Rinnagan in order to revive madara himself, remember how Tobi said nagato was suppose to use that reviving power for him instead of using it for the leaf village dead ppl? this is also why madara has knowledge of nagato when he was summoned by kabuto. This is the simplest explanation you can deduce given the facts we have. so Madara wrote how to get the rinnegan that can only be read by those who have the rinnegan? i assume you meant "needs EMS to read" also i dont think Nagato could have revived Madara, seems to be a time period where you have to ressurect them within that time for them to come back as anything but a mindless zombie that he used as puppets if he could ressurect someone as dead as madara then his BFF wouldnt be being used as a puppet
tablet was probably written by the sage of six paths. In response to other statements regarding switching eyes, i think the strongest evidence is how in the "demon" representations of the sharingan, where theres a four eyed monster standing behind an uchiha, the top two eyes (original sharingan) are still there, open, and the replacement eyes (mangenkyo) are there as well (open and sometimes empty).
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On August 25 2012 09:35 gods_basement wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 09:19 Forikorder wrote:I think itachi found out from the Uchiha hide out tablets. Remember he told sasuke to read it too, it holds all the secret about the Uchiha powers, it even talks about how to control summon creatures, and sasuke used that knowledge to control that huge snake pet of orochimaru. i think thats different, its been stated as Cannon that the Sharingan specifically can control the 9 tails especailly what he did to the snake was just a normal genjutsu And there are different levels of secret, in order to read the different levels of the tablet the person has to first process a regular sharingan, and then a MS, and then the Rinnegan for it's final secrets. I'm sure the first level of secret talks about how to gain the MS, and the second level secret will talk about how to get the Eternal MS. And then the final level of secrets talks about the power of the Rinnegan and more. And the person who made these tablets is likely madara, as he's the first one to achieve the eternal MS, as for the Rinnegan information, he didn't get the Rinnegan until the very end of his life after he lost the fight vs the 1st hokage. So He could have use the last ounce of his power to write a script on how to obtain the rinnagan and how his followers could use this information to create the Rinnagan in order to revive madara himself, remember how Tobi said nagato was suppose to use that reviving power for him instead of using it for the leaf village dead ppl? this is also why madara has knowledge of nagato when he was summoned by kabuto. This is the simplest explanation you can deduce given the facts we have. so Madara wrote how to get the rinnegan that can only be read by those who have the rinnegan? i assume you meant "needs EMS to read" also i dont think Nagato could have revived Madara, seems to be a time period where you have to ressurect them within that time for them to come back as anything but a mindless zombie that he used as puppets if he could ressurect someone as dead as madara then his BFF wouldnt be being used as a puppet tablet was probably written by the sage of six paths. In response to other statements regarding switching eyes, i think the strongest evidence is how in the "demon" representations of the sharingan, where theres a four eyed monster standing behind an uchiha, the top two eyes (original sharingan) are still there, open, and the replacement eyes (mangenkyo) are there as well (open and sometimes empty).
why would the S06P leave such a dangerous document around.... if anything the last thing he would want is for noone to ever awaken the Rinnegan since then 10 tails stays asleep forever since only the Rinnegan can awaken it with the Gedo statue
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i5.mangareader.net/naruto/399/naruto-1569411.jpg)
