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On July 08 2012 12:27 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2012 12:23 Dosey wrote:On July 08 2012 12:13 Jealous wrote:On July 08 2012 12:07 Dosey wrote:
Not sure if this was brought up and didn't see any mention while skimming the last couple pages but...
If Madara and the First were so fucking badass and the disparity in the power levels of the current generation and them was so huge... How the fuck was old ass third hokage able to take him AND the 2nd on while Fighting Oro?! Not only that, but if it was able to be released, why didn't he release it, 1HKO Oro and henchmen then have the third seal him? Or go on an evil man killing spree before having someone seal him?
Too many plotholes lately for my liking. Unless someone can please clear something that I obviously missed since I only read that chapter once years and years ago. Oro's version was imperfect and he had worse control over them (was said before, have not verified directly). The hokages couldn't do anything Orochimaru didn't already know or something? He DID master almost all jutsu before. Anyways, the First would NOT have gone on a killing spree and would have most likely wanted to pass to the next life knowing his basic "good guy" character descriptions. Ehh... still not buying it. Even if the resurrection was imperfect, not having full control puts more emphasis on the plot hole. They were obviously self aware (conversation with Third) and had huge amounts of chakra to use the techniques they used, so he (The first) should have been able to release it if he wanted to. And by "Killing spree" I meant tying up loose ends like "Madara"/Tobi, killing the man who desecrated his body and genes (Oro) and take care of Akatsuki (a far stretch because he probably wouldn't know or care about them). IIRC he didn't "Pass" anyway, weren't they killed/sealed by that death god technique? So that theory is out as well. Not to mention, in flashbacks Hashi always seemed like an unrelenting badass. Good, yes. But he didn't take any shit. On July 08 2012 12:22 ixi.genocide wrote:On July 08 2012 12:07 Dosey wrote:
Not sure if this was brought up and didn't see any mention while skimming the last couple pages but...
If Madara and the First were so fucking badass and the disparity in the power levels of the current generation and them was so huge... How the fuck was old ass third hokage able to take him AND the 2nd on while Fighting Oro?! Not only that, but if it was able to be released, why didn't he release it, 1HKO Oro and henchmen then have the third seal him? Or go on an evil man killing spree before having someone seal him?
Too many plotholes lately for my liking. Unless someone can please clear something that I obviously missed since I only read that chapter once years and years ago. when Oro summoned the 1st and the 2nd he took full control of their minds and they couldn't do as much as madara (who still has his mind). Also, because it wasn't a complete edo tensai, the hokages couldn't use their full abilities. I thought that didn't happen until after their conversation while they were self-aware? Oh well, I guess I'll have to buy the "He couldn't use it because Orochi didn't know about it" cop out. notice how neither of the Hokages move at all before Oro puts the tag in them? until the tag is in there heads tehy cant do a thing, and after the tags are in they cant control themselves, Madara has a tag in his head too only his tag doesnt limit his personality and grants him control of his actions
Fair enough, I'll accept that for now. Carry on with your conversation about Tobi/Madara/Orochimaru. Apologies for the derailment of the current topic.
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I already explained this a few pages back. Madara didn't break the seal until
After the edo tensei was turned off which gave him temporary control overhimself again... something that never happened with the oro vs 3rd fight and was proven to be true with dan transporting to tsunade to save her. Boom now can we stop talking about this so called 'plothole'?
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On July 08 2012 12:33 Kazeyonoma wrote:
I already explained this a few pages back. Madara didn't break the seal until
After the edo tensei was turned off which gave him temporary control overhimself again... something that never happened with the oro vs 3rd fight and was proven to be true with dan transporting to tsunade to save her. Boom now can we stop talking about this so called 'plothole'?
Rude nerd is rude.
Pretty sure it was established that Madara had complete control the entire time because he is an evil badass and wanted to kill everyone anyway. He just had no reason to release if the technique was still working considering that was its only weakness. Dan on the other hand is a good guy and needed to be controlled. Which is why he could only do something AFTER it was released.
And like I said before your rude comment, I'll accept the other explanation provided, so please carry on.
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I hope either a kage uses the Justu that takes your life away and then kill Madara, but then a Deus Ex Machina comes in and Madara can't actually lose his soul because of bullshit past where he made a deal with the Death God to give his soul in return for the powers he has now so Death God can't take it again. Then he kills all the kages and then Sasuke finds him, does Amaterasu and another justu hidden within it to attack Madara and then Madara dies because he hasn't faced a Sharingan user in a while.
OR
The 5 kages are actually in Tsukiyomi and Madara isn't as OP as we thought. <--- Cop out which I would prefer to anything Kishi makes up to get rid of Madara. But not likely, just because we need the Madara/Tobi powerload.
Why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any air techniques besides RasenShuriken?
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On July 08 2012 12:42 furerkip wrote:
Why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any air techniques besides RasenShuriken?
Too busy making friends with animals and complaining about his bf.
I'm really hoping he learns more techniques than yet another rasengan variation....
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Tobi isn't Oro by the way. Remember, when Kabuto told him he knew about the army of Zetsus? Tobi was all like, "Oro, you mofo, how much did you actually know" when Kabuto wasn't around.
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On July 08 2012 12:42 furerkip wrote:
I hope either a kage uses the Justu that takes your life away and then kill Madara, but then a Deus Ex Machina comes in and Madara can't actually lose his soul because of bullshit past where he made a deal with the Death God to give his soul in return for the powers he has now so Death God can't take it again. Then he kills all the kages and then Sasuke finds him, does Amaterasu and another justu hidden within it to attack Madara and then Madara dies because he hasn't faced a Sharingan user in a while.
OR
The 5 kages are actually in Tsukiyomi and Madara isn't as OP as we thought. <--- Cop out which I would prefer to anything Kishi makes up to get rid of Madara. But not likely, just because we need the Madara/Tobi powerload.
Why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any air techniques besides RasenShuriken?
why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any techniques but Shadow clone, sage mode and Rasengan?
oh ya cause he hasnt cause hes dumb
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On July 08 2012 12:52 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2012 12:42 furerkip wrote:
I hope either a kage uses the Justu that takes your life away and then kill Madara, but then a Deus Ex Machina comes in and Madara can't actually lose his soul because of bullshit past where he made a deal with the Death God to give his soul in return for the powers he has now so Death God can't take it again. Then he kills all the kages and then Sasuke finds him, does Amaterasu and another justu hidden within it to attack Madara and then Madara dies because he hasn't faced a Sharingan user in a while.
OR
The 5 kages are actually in Tsukiyomi and Madara isn't as OP as we thought. <--- Cop out which I would prefer to anything Kishi makes up to get rid of Madara. But not likely, just because we need the Madara/Tobi powerload.
Why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any air techniques besides RasenShuriken? why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any techniques but Shadow clone, sage mode and Rasengan? oh ya cause he hasnt cause hes dumb
It's still a hilariously low number of jutsus. Even the sharingan can do more.
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On July 08 2012 12:52 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2012 12:42 furerkip wrote:
I hope either a kage uses the Justu that takes your life away and then kill Madara, but then a Deus Ex Machina comes in and Madara can't actually lose his soul because of bullshit past where he made a deal with the Death God to give his soul in return for the powers he has now so Death God can't take it again. Then he kills all the kages and then Sasuke finds him, does Amaterasu and another justu hidden within it to attack Madara and then Madara dies because he hasn't faced a Sharingan user in a while.
OR
The 5 kages are actually in Tsukiyomi and Madara isn't as OP as we thought. <--- Cop out which I would prefer to anything Kishi makes up to get rid of Madara. But not likely, just because we need the Madara/Tobi powerload.
Why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any air techniques besides RasenShuriken? why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any techniques but Shadow clone, sage mode and Rasengan? oh ya cause he hasnt cause hes dumb
Kuchiyose + Rasen-Shuriken
By the way, why does it seem like everyone is complaining about anything, instead of just being happy with what they got ? Plus I think that most of you don´t even pay for it !?
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On July 08 2012 19:42 Rob-Zero wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2012 12:52 Forikorder wrote:On July 08 2012 12:42 furerkip wrote:
I hope either a kage uses the Justu that takes your life away and then kill Madara, but then a Deus Ex Machina comes in and Madara can't actually lose his soul because of bullshit past where he made a deal with the Death God to give his soul in return for the powers he has now so Death God can't take it again. Then he kills all the kages and then Sasuke finds him, does Amaterasu and another justu hidden within it to attack Madara and then Madara dies because he hasn't faced a Sharingan user in a while.
OR
The 5 kages are actually in Tsukiyomi and Madara isn't as OP as we thought. <--- Cop out which I would prefer to anything Kishi makes up to get rid of Madara. But not likely, just because we need the Madara/Tobi powerload.
Why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any air techniques besides RasenShuriken? why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any techniques but Shadow clone, sage mode and Rasengan? oh ya cause he hasnt cause hes dumb Kuchiyose + Rasen-Shuriken By the way, why does it seem like everyone is complaining about anything, instead of just being happy with what they got ? Plus I think that most of you don´t even pay for it !?
Rasen shuriken is just a rasengan with wind chakra its made in the exact same way
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For me it is another jutsu, I get what you´re saying, but still.
If you say it is the same, then Bunshin and Kage-Bunshin for example are the same to. You could say that, but I would not. But still you forgot Kuchiyose 
And I would not say that Naruto is dumb, he is not very intelligent, but not dumb also. It is just the Manga-Humor that makes him look dumb. 
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On July 08 2012 23:55 Rob-Zero wrote:For me it is another jutsu, I get what you´re saying, but still. If you say it is the same, then Bunshin and Kage-Bunshin for example are the same to. You could say that, but I would not. But still you forgot Kuchiyose And I would not say that Naruto is dumb, he is not very intelligent, but not dumb also. It is just the Manga-Humor that makes him look dumb.
Bunshin no jutsu is a worthless technique that created an illusionary copy of yourself, this is the jutsu Naruto failed at causing him to repeat ninja academy
KAGE bunshin no jutsu is the shadowclone technique taht Naruto learned of the secret scroll
and ya i did forget Kuchiyose no jutsu but then he hasnt actually summoned anything since his fight with Gaara i think (well he did summon a small toad agaisnt orochimaru when the 3 sannin were all fighting but i wont count that)
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Yeah but still Kage-Bunshin no Jutsu is just an upgraded version of Bunshin no Jutsu, so it is the same like with Rasengan and Rasen-Shuriken. And Kage Bunshin seemed somehow worthless too, back in the days, where Naruto needed 3 million of them to reach exactly nothing.
The fact that one technique is worthless and its upgrade is not, does not change their relation to one another.
And if I remember correctly Naruto also summoned Gamabunta in the fight of the 3 sannin, because Jiraya could not back then. And that he did not use it for a long time (and Kuchiyose is not : 1. worthless, 2. weak. It was an important technique in the Pain-Fight) does not change the fact that he learned it.
But yeah, this discussion is dumb, and it will lead to nothing. So lets just say, we do not have the same opinion. I do think it does not matter how much techniques Naruto learned, one of the themes of Naruto was that you don´t need a lot of jutsu if you are able to use them right. So I think it is somehow ok that Naruto still hasn´t got a shitload of techniques, at least for me it is.
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On July 09 2012 01:32 Rob-Zero wrote:
Yeah but still Kage-Bunshin no Jutsu is just an upgraded version of Bunshin no Jutsu, so it is the same like with Rasengan and Rasen-Shuriken. And Kage Bunshin seemed somehow worthless too, back in the days, where Naruto needed 3 million of them to reach exactly nothing.
The fact that one technique is worthless and its upgrade is not, does not change their relation to one another.
And if I remember correctly Naruto also summoned Gamabunta in the fight of the 3 sannin, because Jiraya could not back then. And that he did not use it for a long time (and Kuchiyose is not : 1. worthless, 2. weak. It was an important technique in the Pain-Fight) does not change the fact that he learned it.
But yeah, this discussion is dumb, and it will lead to nothing. So lets just say, we do not have the same opinion. I do think it does not matter how much techniques Naruto learned, one of the themes of Naruto was that you don´t need a lot of jutsu if you are able to use them right. So I think it is somehow ok that Naruto still hasn´t got a shitload of techniques, at least for me it is.
Kage bunshin no jutsu is to the bnshin no jutsu as Amaterasu is to a normal fireball
and no Naruto did not summon Gamma Bunta, Jiraiya managed to pull it off
and he didnt summon the toads to the village agaisnt pain either
so he literally hasnt used the summoning technique since he fought Gaara
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Ok, he did not use it against the 3 Sannin. Maybe. I did not say that he used it in the Pain fight, I said it was an important technique in the fight, both for Naruto and for Pain.
And you were talking about techniques Naruto learned in the first place, not about techniques he used in the past fights, so still Kuchiyose is a jutsu he learned. Never did I say more than that.
And yeah, you maybe right about the bunshin, but you could also say that Kagebunshin is to Bunshin as Rasen-Shuriken is to a normal rasengan. Don´t you get the point ? I said it two times already. And a normal fireball can be as useful as a rasengan and as a Bunshin no Jutsu.
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On July 09 2012 02:16 Rob-Zero wrote:
Ok, he did not use it against the 3 Sannin. Maybe. I did not say that he used it in the Pain fight, I said it was an important technique in the fight, both for Naruto and for Pain.
And you were talking about techniques Naruto learned in the first place, not about techniques he used in the past fights, so still Kuchiyose is a jutsu he learned. Never did I say more than that.
And yeah, you maybe right about the bunshin, but you could also say that Kagebunshin is to Bunshin as Rasen-Shuriken is to a normal rasengan. Don´t you get the point ? I said it two times already. And a normal fireball can be as useful as a rasengan and as a Bunshin no Jutsu.
making a bunshin and making a kagebunshin are 2 seperate processes though, making a rasenshuriken is exactly like making a normal rasengan
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On July 09 2012 02:49 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 02:16 Rob-Zero wrote:
Ok, he did not use it against the 3 Sannin. Maybe. I did not say that he used it in the Pain fight, I said it was an important technique in the fight, both for Naruto and for Pain.
And you were talking about techniques Naruto learned in the first place, not about techniques he used in the past fights, so still Kuchiyose is a jutsu he learned. Never did I say more than that.
And yeah, you maybe right about the bunshin, but you could also say that Kagebunshin is to Bunshin as Rasen-Shuriken is to a normal rasengan. Don´t you get the point ? I said it two times already. And a normal fireball can be as useful as a rasengan and as a Bunshin no Jutsu. making a bunshin and making a kagebunshin are 2 seperate processes though, making a rasenshuriken is exactly like making a normal rasengan
>.> are you arguing hand seals now? there ar different levels of each technique. There are a million levels of fire techniques and they all are based off of huton (jap for fire). the clone techniques are based off of bunshin. I think the general point is that naruto only knows a few techniques and he develops and uses them in different manners. Something yo ucan take away from that point is that as a ninja he lacks depth. As a char he is fine but as a nin he does the same stuff since the fight with zabuza.
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On July 09 2012 06:09 ixi.genocide wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 02:49 Forikorder wrote:On July 09 2012 02:16 Rob-Zero wrote:
Ok, he did not use it against the 3 Sannin. Maybe. I did not say that he used it in the Pain fight, I said it was an important technique in the fight, both for Naruto and for Pain.
And you were talking about techniques Naruto learned in the first place, not about techniques he used in the past fights, so still Kuchiyose is a jutsu he learned. Never did I say more than that.
And yeah, you maybe right about the bunshin, but you could also say that Kagebunshin is to Bunshin as Rasen-Shuriken is to a normal rasengan. Don´t you get the point ? I said it two times already. And a normal fireball can be as useful as a rasengan and as a Bunshin no Jutsu. making a bunshin and making a kagebunshin are 2 seperate processes though, making a rasenshuriken is exactly like making a normal rasengan >.> are you arguing hand seals now? there ar different levels of each technique. There are a million levels of fire techniques and they all are based off of huton (jap for fire). the clone techniques are based off of bunshin. I think the general point is that naruto only knows a few techniques and he develops and uses them in different manners. Something yo ucan take away from that point is that as a ninja he lacks depth. As a char he is fine but as a nin he does the same stuff since the fight with zabuza.
its not the size that counts its how you use it
if you know one technique and can use it in a thousand ways its better then knowing 1000 techniques
Naruto gets flack for knowing so few techniques but Minato has only been shown using FTG and Rasengan
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On July 09 2012 06:12 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 06:09 ixi.genocide wrote:On July 09 2012 02:49 Forikorder wrote:On July 09 2012 02:16 Rob-Zero wrote:
Ok, he did not use it against the 3 Sannin. Maybe. I did not say that he used it in the Pain fight, I said it was an important technique in the fight, both for Naruto and for Pain.
And you were talking about techniques Naruto learned in the first place, not about techniques he used in the past fights, so still Kuchiyose is a jutsu he learned. Never did I say more than that.
And yeah, you maybe right about the bunshin, but you could also say that Kagebunshin is to Bunshin as Rasen-Shuriken is to a normal rasengan. Don´t you get the point ? I said it two times already. And a normal fireball can be as useful as a rasengan and as a Bunshin no Jutsu. making a bunshin and making a kagebunshin are 2 seperate processes though, making a rasenshuriken is exactly like making a normal rasengan >.> are you arguing hand seals now? there ar different levels of each technique. There are a million levels of fire techniques and they all are based off of huton (jap for fire). the clone techniques are based off of bunshin. I think the general point is that naruto only knows a few techniques and he develops and uses them in different manners. Something yo ucan take away from that point is that as a ninja he lacks depth. As a char he is fine but as a nin he does the same stuff since the fight with zabuza. its not the size that counts its how you use it if you know one technique and can use it in a thousand ways its better then knowing 1000 techniques Naruto gets flack for knowing so few techniques but Minato has only been shown using FTG and Rasengan
that's because Minato is dead... and he also used the death god tech. Naruto is the main char and yeah the Bruce lee saying isn't really applicable. I would also say that a regular fireball doesn't seem to actually hurt anyone anymore, so size does count. Don't let anyone tell you different.
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On July 08 2012 19:42 Rob-Zero wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2012 12:52 Forikorder wrote:On July 08 2012 12:42 furerkip wrote:
I hope either a kage uses the Justu that takes your life away and then kill Madara, but then a Deus Ex Machina comes in and Madara can't actually lose his soul because of bullshit past where he made a deal with the Death God to give his soul in return for the powers he has now so Death God can't take it again. Then he kills all the kages and then Sasuke finds him, does Amaterasu and another justu hidden within it to attack Madara and then Madara dies because he hasn't faced a Sharingan user in a while.
OR
The 5 kages are actually in Tsukiyomi and Madara isn't as OP as we thought. <--- Cop out which I would prefer to anything Kishi makes up to get rid of Madara. But not likely, just because we need the Madara/Tobi powerload.
Why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any air techniques besides RasenShuriken? why does it seem like Naruto has never learned any techniques but Shadow clone, sage mode and Rasengan? oh ya cause he hasnt cause hes dumb Kuchiyose + Rasen-Shuriken By the way, why does it seem like everyone is complaining about anything, instead of just being happy with what they got ? Plus I think that most of you don´t even pay for it !?
Because it started out great and turned to shit. People dont like seeing what they love get turned to shit.
Oh and just because its free doesn't mean you should be happy about it. If someone left a piece of shit on your doorstep, you wouldn't be happy about it just because its free. You'd be annoyed.....because its shit.
Lesson of the day: nothing about shit should ever make anyone happy.
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EPT
