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On July 22 2013 22:46 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 22:13 GreenGringo wrote:On July 22 2013 21:58 Jibba wrote: That's 1,000 mph and capable of lifting 66 quintillion tons. He is just so many orders of magnitudes different. That's 2.2 x 10^19 times stronger than Bane at his peak. I know Superman is an awful character, but where do you get this figure that you quote so religiously? Different comics have wholly different interpretations. They never agree on something as exact as the mass that a comic being is capable of lifting. That estimate is clearly ridiculous anyway, as it would mean the Earth would move when he's in a fight with someone like Doomsday due to transfer of momentum. There's multiple examples, either from All Star Superman (where he's lifting 200 quintillion tons with terrible posture and the scientist says it's 3x more than before) or just from what's required in order to move planets. DC writers are terrible when it comes to dolling out powers and giving them limits. 1930's Superman obviously couldn't, but once you get to the 70's and beyond, he basically just becomes infinitely powerful. Enough for humans to be completely insignificant to him. I really think Superman is the worst handled franchise in all of comics.
That's because the whole concept is stupid. Oh, he's indestructible and strong as a god, his only weakness is Kryptonite, I wonder what they will try to use against him this time. . . . . . It's either people with equal powers that will fight him (in which case it comes down to a boxing match) or that, pretty boring. Batman is mortal and mankind has a million ways to kill him, also he is not some witeknight with 0 character but a badass playboy richguy that went through tough times.
I want Lobo and Wolverine, Batman and Ironman and those guys to tear shit up, not someone who is about as predictable as (super)humanly possible and thus, just as boring.
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I think it's time to retire Superman already...he's just not an interesting hero, never has been.
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wolverine can heal through everything and has an indestructible skeleton so i dont see why superman would be boring. the only difference i see is that wolverine is aggressive and has a big mouth while superman tries to reason with people.
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Honestly, I feel like this combo is really odd. Superman does it all and everything, batman is more serious and dark. Superman isn't really a dark story line, he just saves the day lol. I know this combo has been done before in cartoon movies and stuff. But idk. I am kinda burnt out on the super hero movie thing lately.
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On July 22 2013 23:08 agahamsorr0w wrote: wolverine can heal through everything and has an indestructible skeleton so i dont see why superman would be boring. the only difference i see is that wolverine is aggressive and has a big mouth while superman tries to reason with people.
That's just BS. There are a ton of guys that can fight and kill or at least imprison Wolverine. It's one thing to be hard to kill and a decent enough fighter and quite another to be capable of packing a punch so heavy it shatters mountains while a tank shot hitting you in the open eye will to about the same amount of damage as someone burping in your direction from 20 feet away.
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On July 22 2013 23:16 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 23:08 agahamsorr0w wrote: wolverine can heal through everything and has an indestructible skeleton so i dont see why superman would be boring. the only difference i see is that wolverine is aggressive and has a big mouth while superman tries to reason with people. That's just BS. There are a ton of guys that can fight and kill or at least imprison Wolverine. It's one thing to be hard to kill and a decent enough fighter and quite another to be capable of packing a punch so heavy it shatters mountains while a tank shot hitting you in the open eye will to about the same amount of damage as someone burping in your direction from 20 feet away.
good thing superman has no reason at all to destroy mountains with one punch uh? obviously if he wanted it he would kill batman in one shot but if you knew how he was designed, you would know he doesnt kill unless under influence of red kryptonite. same with magneto. he could kill wolverine by tearing his skeleton out of his body but he doesnt. its not in his interest even though they are enemies.
oh and superman isnt strong enough to shatter a mountain with a punch. you just made that up.
do people here even know villains can team up too? does the injustice league ring any bells?
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On July 22 2013 17:04 NukeD wrote: The idea of batman and superman in the same universe is retarded so i expect nothing less from the movie. Have you not read the "Dark Knight Returns"? Superman and Batman can be amazing if it is writen well. Best buddy cop movie ever.
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On July 22 2013 23:22 agahamsorr0w wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 23:16 rEalGuapo wrote:On July 22 2013 23:08 agahamsorr0w wrote: wolverine can heal through everything and has an indestructible skeleton so i dont see why superman would be boring. the only difference i see is that wolverine is aggressive and has a big mouth while superman tries to reason with people. That's just BS. There are a ton of guys that can fight and kill or at least imprison Wolverine. It's one thing to be hard to kill and a decent enough fighter and quite another to be capable of packing a punch so heavy it shatters mountains while a tank shot hitting you in the open eye will to about the same amount of damage as someone burping in your direction from 20 feet away. good thing superman has no reason at all to destroy mountains with one punch uh? obviously if he wanted it he would kill batman in one shot but if you knew how he was designed, you would know he doesnt kill unless under influence of red kryptonite. same with magneto. he could kill wolverine by tearing his skeleton out of his body but he doesnt. its not in his interest even though they are enemies. oh and superman isnt strong enough to shatter a mountain with a punch. you just made that up. do people here even know villains can team up too? does the injustice league ring any bells?
Still all my points stand.
Superman is just immortal invoulnerable and so strong he can do whatever he wants. That's when the makers realized that it is kind of boring this way so they designed Kryptonite and then more and more versions of it and added in magic..... magic. Yeah. Because those are the two weaknesses, something that simply stands for all that is illogical and impossible thus can not be reasoned with (Magic) and some weak ass crap they just implemented to keep the Superman Saga from being the biggest joke ever. Still is though, I mean come on. . Pink Kryptonite that makes people gay?! WTF
Still all these flaws can be seen as flaws or not, that I can understand but the guy itself is just too boring. Superman will always be the white knight and never do anything anyone could deam as wrong, no matter what (unless. . . surprise kryptonite...) I feel like being 100% predictable and nice makes a person too boring to have a huge fanbase. It is no wonder that Batman and Wolverine both have ton of good movies before Superman does (I don't care for 50 year old movies anymore, hurts my brain to watch those effects t.t got spoiled and now can't help it).
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On July 22 2013 23:07 MilesTeg wrote: I think it's time to retire Superman already...he's just not an interesting hero, never has been.
I guess he had his time in naive children comics in 1960.
you can not make a superhuman face human dilemas, and that was a key to batman trilogy.
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On July 22 2013 23:42 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 23:22 agahamsorr0w wrote:On July 22 2013 23:16 rEalGuapo wrote:On July 22 2013 23:08 agahamsorr0w wrote: wolverine can heal through everything and has an indestructible skeleton so i dont see why superman would be boring. the only difference i see is that wolverine is aggressive and has a big mouth while superman tries to reason with people. That's just BS. There are a ton of guys that can fight and kill or at least imprison Wolverine. It's one thing to be hard to kill and a decent enough fighter and quite another to be capable of packing a punch so heavy it shatters mountains while a tank shot hitting you in the open eye will to about the same amount of damage as someone burping in your direction from 20 feet away. good thing superman has no reason at all to destroy mountains with one punch uh? obviously if he wanted it he would kill batman in one shot but if you knew how he was designed, you would know he doesnt kill unless under influence of red kryptonite. same with magneto. he could kill wolverine by tearing his skeleton out of his body but he doesnt. its not in his interest even though they are enemies. oh and superman isnt strong enough to shatter a mountain with a punch. you just made that up. do people here even know villains can team up too? does the injustice league ring any bells? Still all my points stand. Superman is just immortal invoulnerable and so strong he can do whatever he wants. That's when the makers realized that it is kind of boring this way so they designed Kryptonite and then more and more versions of it and added in magic..... magic. Yeah. Because those are the two weaknesses, something that simply stands for all that is illogical and impossible thus can not be reasoned with (Magic) and some weak ass crap they just implemented to keep the Superman Saga from being the biggest joke ever. Still is though, I mean come on. . Pink Kryptonite that makes people gay?! WTF Still all these flaws can be seen as flaws or not, that I can understand but the guy itself is just too boring. Superman will always be the white knight and never do anything anyone could deam as wrong, no matter what (unless. . . surprise kryptonite...) I feel like being 100% predictable and nice makes a person too boring to have a huge fanbase. It is no wonder that Batman and Wolverine both have ton of good movies before Superman does (I don't care for 50 year old movies anymore, hurts my brain to watch those effects t.t got spoiled and now can't help it). Its just a question of scale. How can a heros in the avengers work when they are all of different power levels? With good writing. The battle on the sky fortress is a great example of good writing making for intresting fights that everyone can take part in. They deal with Ironman(one of the most powerful characters) by making him repair the airship, while the Hulk and Thor are busy dealing with eachother.
Superman and Batman work the same way. You just need things that both parties need to deal with on a sperately. If the fights and battles are big enough, Superman will be locked down and busy. Also, the new Man of Steel had a very "reasonable" Superman who had limits to how strong he was or how much damge he could take before being knocked around.
And batman and superman are intresting characters when they interact with eachother. Both have a lot in common and see the world in very differnet ways. The best writing for them makes them play off eachother. If you read Kingdom Come, the part where Batman is talking to Superman and turns back to find Superman gone is one of the best quotes of all time. Batman just says "So thats what that feels like."
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On July 22 2013 23:42 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 23:22 agahamsorr0w wrote:On July 22 2013 23:16 rEalGuapo wrote:On July 22 2013 23:08 agahamsorr0w wrote: wolverine can heal through everything and has an indestructible skeleton so i dont see why superman would be boring. the only difference i see is that wolverine is aggressive and has a big mouth while superman tries to reason with people. That's just BS. There are a ton of guys that can fight and kill or at least imprison Wolverine. It's one thing to be hard to kill and a decent enough fighter and quite another to be capable of packing a punch so heavy it shatters mountains while a tank shot hitting you in the open eye will to about the same amount of damage as someone burping in your direction from 20 feet away. good thing superman has no reason at all to destroy mountains with one punch uh? obviously if he wanted it he would kill batman in one shot but if you knew how he was designed, you would know he doesnt kill unless under influence of red kryptonite. same with magneto. he could kill wolverine by tearing his skeleton out of his body but he doesnt. its not in his interest even though they are enemies. oh and superman isnt strong enough to shatter a mountain with a punch. you just made that up. do people here even know villains can team up too? does the injustice league ring any bells? Still all my points stand. Superman is just immortal invoulnerable and so strong he can do whatever he wants. That's when the makers realized that it is kind of boring this way so they designed Kryptonite and then more and more versions of it and added in magic..... magic. Yeah. Because those are the two weaknesses, something that simply stands for all that is illogical and impossible thus can not be reasoned with (Magic) and some weak ass crap they just implemented to keep the Superman Saga from being the biggest joke ever. Still is though, I mean come on. . Pink Kryptonite that makes people gay?! WTF Still all these flaws can be seen as flaws or not, that I can understand but the guy itself is just too boring. Superman will always be the white knight and never do anything anyone could deam as wrong, no matter what (unless. . . surprise kryptonite...) I feel like being 100% predictable and nice makes a person too boring to have a huge fanbase. It is no wonder that Batman and Wolverine both have ton of good movies before Superman does (I don't care for 50 year old movies anymore, hurts my brain to watch those effects t.t got spoiled and now can't help it).
you havent seen man of steel have you? no kryptonite at all. and its not magic. its an element from krypton that reached earth after krypton exploded. infused with energy from the yellow sun its lethal to people from krypton. different kryptonite has different effects.
are you just yelling nonsense because youre being supported by the majority of people here or did you really not know what kryptonote was? im baffeled you had the nerve to call kryptonite magic
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On July 22 2013 23:52 agahamsorr0w wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 23:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On July 22 2013 23:22 agahamsorr0w wrote:On July 22 2013 23:16 rEalGuapo wrote:On July 22 2013 23:08 agahamsorr0w wrote: wolverine can heal through everything and has an indestructible skeleton so i dont see why superman would be boring. the only difference i see is that wolverine is aggressive and has a big mouth while superman tries to reason with people. That's just BS. There are a ton of guys that can fight and kill or at least imprison Wolverine. It's one thing to be hard to kill and a decent enough fighter and quite another to be capable of packing a punch so heavy it shatters mountains while a tank shot hitting you in the open eye will to about the same amount of damage as someone burping in your direction from 20 feet away. good thing superman has no reason at all to destroy mountains with one punch uh? obviously if he wanted it he would kill batman in one shot but if you knew how he was designed, you would know he doesnt kill unless under influence of red kryptonite. same with magneto. he could kill wolverine by tearing his skeleton out of his body but he doesnt. its not in his interest even though they are enemies. oh and superman isnt strong enough to shatter a mountain with a punch. you just made that up. do people here even know villains can team up too? does the injustice league ring any bells? Still all my points stand. Superman is just immortal invoulnerable and so strong he can do whatever he wants. That's when the makers realized that it is kind of boring this way so they designed Kryptonite and then more and more versions of it and added in magic..... magic. Yeah. Because those are the two weaknesses, something that simply stands for all that is illogical and impossible thus can not be reasoned with (Magic) and some weak ass crap they just implemented to keep the Superman Saga from being the biggest joke ever. Still is though, I mean come on. . Pink Kryptonite that makes people gay?! WTF Still all these flaws can be seen as flaws or not, that I can understand but the guy itself is just too boring. Superman will always be the white knight and never do anything anyone could deam as wrong, no matter what (unless. . . surprise kryptonite...) I feel like being 100% predictable and nice makes a person too boring to have a huge fanbase. It is no wonder that Batman and Wolverine both have ton of good movies before Superman does (I don't care for 50 year old movies anymore, hurts my brain to watch those effects t.t got spoiled and now can't help it). you havent seen man of steel have you? no kryptonite at all. and its not magic. its an element from krypton that reached earth after krypton exploded. infused with energy from the yellow sun its lethal to people from krypton. different kryptonite has different effects. are you just yelling nonsense because youre being supported by the majority of people here or did you really not know what kryptonote was? im baffeled you had the nerve to call kryptonite magic So fanboy that you lost reading comprehension?
He was talking about 2 weaknesses. Kryptonite and magic. He never implied Kryptonite was magic.
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Feels like AvP all over again...
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On July 21 2013 17:22 aNGryaRchon wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Superman beats Batman in Babel despite Batman’s heavy preparation. Superman kills Batman in Red Son. Superman humiliates Batman in Superman/Batman 2 despite all the odds favoring Batman. Superman smashes Batman in Infinite Crisis despite the absolute Krypton Ring. Superman obliterates Batman in Hush series, again despite Batman’s preparation.
The only time Batman beats Superman is when Batman just turns on Superman without any motivation or when Superman acts out of character due to poor script writing.
There is no universe, alternate reality, hallucinatory world, or fantasy where Batman wins vs. Superman.
And he really shouldn't. Batman comes from a universe where extraordinary physical strength and willpower meets technology, where Superman is a practically invincible alien. I really don't think the two ever fit together, I don't know how they'll make this work.
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On July 23 2013 00:49 Steel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2013 17:22 aNGryaRchon wrote: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Superman beats Batman in Babel despite Batman’s heavy preparation. Superman kills Batman in Red Son. Superman humiliates Batman in Superman/Batman 2 despite all the odds favoring Batman. Superman smashes Batman in Infinite Crisis despite the absolute Krypton Ring. Superman obliterates Batman in Hush series, again despite Batman’s preparation.
The only time Batman beats Superman is when Batman just turns on Superman without any motivation or when Superman acts out of character due to poor script writing.
There is no universe, alternate reality, hallucinatory world, or fantasy where Batman wins vs. Superman. And he really shouldn't. Batman comes from a universe where extraordinary physical strength and willpower meets technology, where Superman is a practically invincible alien. I really don't think the two ever fit together, I don't know how they'll make this work. The same way to make a Thunder God run around with a guy with a bow and arrow, a girl with two guns and a guy with a shield. Good writing and a villian that can be beat with force alone.
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On July 22 2013 21:58 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 16:05 vol_ wrote:For people who don't read comics it may be hard for them to understand how Batman and Superman can actually work together given their different power levels but done well it can actually work out nicely. The fact that Batman is the contingency plan to stopping Superman should he go baddy in the DC universe should speak to how Batman is not as wimpy as you might think. On July 22 2013 13:59 17Sphynx17 wrote: I find it funny how people keep of saying/assuming that Superman is a nitwit compared to Batman.
Krypton was an advanced alien civilization and he himself is an inventor/collector in certain respects. And he has the knowledge of Krypton within his reach, via the Fortress of Solitude. . Yea this bugs me too, Superman is actually a scientific genius in his own right. I know the writers have done it, but most of DC's writers also tend to be fucking awful, especially when it comes to Superman. The fact that Superman and Batman have been in tie-ins before isn't a reflection on it making sense, it's a reflection on DC's previous cash grabs. They never should have co-existed. Let's ignore supercharging in the Sun and the fact that the Batman movie series have just come from the more "real" universe, where he has no concept of kryptonite or red sunlight. Take away Superman's stupid mindreading and intelligence and martial arts mastery and hypnosis and just reduce him to his speed and strength\. Let's not even put him at peak levels. He can be the original 1930's speed (faster than a speeding bullet), and he gets his planet moving strength (not the effortless planet smashing strength). That's 1,000 mph and capable of lifting 66 quintillion tons. He is just so many orders of magnitudes different. That's 2.2 x 10^19 times stronger than Bane at his peak. The idea that kryptonite instantly reduces him to the levels of a weak human has always been absurd. It should make him vulnerable against other superhumans, not real humans. It being in the comics before is not a good explanation. It's never made any sense. Superman is a only good character when he's dealing with galactic stuff. His design falls apart everywhere else. Did you even read the Superman & Batman comics? DC writers have made it work. The two characters bring very different skillsets to the table and can complement each other nicely.
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I don't understand all the hate for Supes. I think anyone who has been in any place of power no matter how small can relate. It's a lot harder to resist the temptation to do the evil sorts of things he could be doing than people realize.
As long as Legendary/Snyder/Nolan have hands in it, I'm confident. I enjoyed Man of Steel, enjoyed the new Batman flicks, I can't think of any reason not to be excited. Maybe I'm just an easy to please comic fan, I dunno.
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This is going to suck so hard.
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On July 23 2013 01:05 Noobity wrote: I don't understand all the hate for Supes. I think anyone who has been in any place of power no matter how small can relate. It's a lot harder to resist the temptation to do the evil sorts of things he could be doing than people realize.
As long as Legendary/Snyder/Nolan have hands in it, I'm confident. I enjoyed Man of Steel, enjoyed the new Batman flicks, I can't think of any reason not to be excited. Maybe I'm just an easy to please comic fan, I dunno. I get the feeling that most people who "hate" Supes have never read or watched anything that features him. The fact that his main villian is a normal person who has tons of money and political influance is enough to make it intresting.
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United States22883 Posts
On July 23 2013 00:58 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 21:58 Jibba wrote:On July 22 2013 16:05 vol_ wrote:For people who don't read comics it may be hard for them to understand how Batman and Superman can actually work together given their different power levels but done well it can actually work out nicely. The fact that Batman is the contingency plan to stopping Superman should he go baddy in the DC universe should speak to how Batman is not as wimpy as you might think. On July 22 2013 13:59 17Sphynx17 wrote: I find it funny how people keep of saying/assuming that Superman is a nitwit compared to Batman.
Krypton was an advanced alien civilization and he himself is an inventor/collector in certain respects. And he has the knowledge of Krypton within his reach, via the Fortress of Solitude. . Yea this bugs me too, Superman is actually a scientific genius in his own right. I know the writers have done it, but most of DC's writers also tend to be fucking awful, especially when it comes to Superman. The fact that Superman and Batman have been in tie-ins before isn't a reflection on it making sense, it's a reflection on DC's previous cash grabs. They never should have co-existed. Let's ignore supercharging in the Sun and the fact that the Batman movie series have just come from the more "real" universe, where he has no concept of kryptonite or red sunlight. Take away Superman's stupid mindreading and intelligence and martial arts mastery and hypnosis and just reduce him to his speed and strength\. Let's not even put him at peak levels. He can be the original 1930's speed (faster than a speeding bullet), and he gets his planet moving strength (not the effortless planet smashing strength). That's 1,000 mph and capable of lifting 66 quintillion tons. He is just so many orders of magnitudes different. That's 2.2 x 10^19 times stronger than Bane at his peak. The idea that kryptonite instantly reduces him to the levels of a weak human has always been absurd. It should make him vulnerable against other superhumans, not real humans. It being in the comics before is not a good explanation. It's never made any sense. Superman is a only good character when he's dealing with galactic stuff. His design falls apart everywhere else. Did you even read the Superman & Batman comics? DC writers have made it work. The two characters bring very different skillsets to the table and can complement each other nicely. No, they really don't. DC fans love how they've been brought together because they're DC fans, not because the books have done it well. For all the positives DKR had for the Batman franchise, the portrayal of Superman was as bad as any other. Given how much they've loaded up Superman over the years, even in good series like All Star, there's no way to bring him back down to earth to exist on Batman's level.
They don't complement each other at all. It's the same with Superman and Flash. Flash serves no purpose in a universe where Superman exists and is as fast as him. Superman has all of the skill sets. People are talking like Superman isn't a genius or a combat specialist or a mindcontroller. He's all of those things, unfortunately. And even if he weren't those things, the strength difference still makes up for it. There's no fighting technique by which a 3 year old will defeat a body builder.
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