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No, this is not a joke/trolling thread. We don't need more filler posts asking if it is.
Remember to spoiler season 6 content, and clearly label your spoilers. |
On August 12 2011 12:11 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:04 Zephos wrote:On August 12 2011 11:56 Bibbit wrote:On August 12 2011 11:52 Zephos wrote:
I am just... so confused by this.
As far as I can see, the show has no outstanding characteristics that would warrant it getting such a cult following. People have said they've liked it in the thread, but it seems to me that they themselves don't even know why they like it so much. Most people just say "watch it yourself, then judge." Well, I did just that (at least, episode 7) and didn't see anything more than a typical kid's show. Granted, the production quality was above average, but not so much that it made up for the fact that the music, the dialogue, and even the art was all targeted towards little girls.
I guess there are things in the universe that are and always will be beyond my understanding. Meh, I dont really feel like its too confusing. Theres a show that some people like and you don't. I find such things happen pretty often. ^^ The difference is, usually I can at least partly see where people are coming from. For instance, I would never watch "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" on my own time. However, having watched segments of it in passing, I was able to identify appealing elements within the melodrama. Yet with "My Little Pony," I literally can't pin down barely any redeeming qualities. I still don't really see the difference. You dont see anything good about MLP at all. I, for example, couldnt fathom any way anyone could enjoy Paranormal Activity but I know people do.
Alright so... let me try a metaphor.
When a person commits a crime, like thievery, i can normally see why they did it. I personally don't weigh the pros of stealing over the cons of stealing, but I've felt jealous/desperate enough in the past to understand why someone would. However when the recent incident in Oslo happened, I was couldn't identify with the killer at all. Despite all of my life experiences, I can't see why someone would want to murder a bunch of random children.
That's my issue with "My Little Pony." Normally, I can understand, if even a little, why certain people like certain shows. But with this show, I'm at a complete and total loss.
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On August 12 2011 12:29 Zephos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:11 Bibbit wrote:On August 12 2011 12:04 Zephos wrote:On August 12 2011 11:56 Bibbit wrote:On August 12 2011 11:52 Zephos wrote:
I am just... so confused by this.
As far as I can see, the show has no outstanding characteristics that would warrant it getting such a cult following. People have said they've liked it in the thread, but it seems to me that they themselves don't even know why they like it so much. Most people just say "watch it yourself, then judge." Well, I did just that (at least, episode 7) and didn't see anything more than a typical kid's show. Granted, the production quality was above average, but not so much that it made up for the fact that the music, the dialogue, and even the art was all targeted towards little girls.
I guess there are things in the universe that are and always will be beyond my understanding. Meh, I dont really feel like its too confusing. Theres a show that some people like and you don't. I find such things happen pretty often. ^^ The difference is, usually I can at least partly see where people are coming from. For instance, I would never watch "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" on my own time. However, having watched segments of it in passing, I was able to identify appealing elements within the melodrama. Yet with "My Little Pony," I literally can't pin down barely any redeeming qualities. I still don't really see the difference. You dont see anything good about MLP at all. I, for example, couldnt fathom any way anyone could enjoy Paranormal Activity but I know people do. Alright so... let me try a metaphor. When a person commits a crime, like thievery, i can normally see why they did it. I personally don't weigh the pros of stealing over the cons of stealing, but I've felt jealous/desperate enough in the past to understand why someone would. However when the recent incident in Oslo happened, I was couldn't identify with the killer at all. Despite all of my life experiences, I can't see why someone would want to murder a bunch of random children. That's my issue with "My Little Pony." Normally, I can understand, if even a little, why certain people like certain shows. But with this show, I'm at a complete and total loss.
The problem I have with that is one's opinions on media (TV shows, music, etc...) is a ton more subjective than one's opinion on crime. If you ask a sample of people "Do you like Seinfeld?" you're going to get a ton more variation than if you were to ask "Do you like murder?"
Opinions on media are typically embedded in personality whereas opinions on crime are more embedded in being human. I just dont think its a comparable situation at all.
Either way I'm pretty sure we're gonna have to agree to disagree. :D
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On August 12 2011 12:23 Gummy wrote:
This is the best. thing. ever.
I've got all the songs stuck in my head.
<3 MLP
We shouldn't have doubted Kritty.
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@ These replies:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 12 2011 12:23 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:06 Crushgroove wrote:
I'm not bashing people for liking this, but I do wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion of its contribution to society, individual value as an example of media, and also question the legitimacy of the cultural fascination with this program.
I feel as though too many of the internet generation pursue this show for entertainment over other, much more intricate, well-writtten, and better produced forms of media for the sole reason that some other internet idiot has idolized the show. Because 4-chan and mmo-champion have vaunted a girls cartoon series to new heights does not mean that the show passes the rigors of actual critical examination.
I can understand that if this is the show for you, then you're not going to agree with me on this next point, but for those who are reading the reviews and opinions and wondering if this is the show for you, I feel obligated to share my assessment. A viewer has to dig to see any kind of benefit in the story telling of the show. The OP used the adjective "heart-warming". I don't think that fits. Numerous times in every episode I observed, including the recommended episode 7, the ponies sarcastically taunt and 1-up each other with what would be considered bad-manners in an elementary school classroom. They flaunt successes and are 'sore winners' when they achieve an inter-pony victory. They also ridicule and verbally torment companions who are frustrating. Hardly the societal behavior I want exhibited to the burgeoning young people of America.
Furthermore, the vocabulary, sentence structure and writing styles aren't my biggest gripe, its character development and dramatic need. If you were to outline the dramatic narrative of any given episode, there isn't even a consistent protagonist. The show has the story-telling structure of an add rabbit trying to play DDR with his feet and whack-a-mole with his hands at the same time.
It is impossible to achieve true character development with such simplistic and under-developed story archs, and as such, cannot possibly emotionally involve the consumer of the media in the way that more intellectual pursuits (books, feature films, better TV series) can and do.
TL;DR: Its a childrens' show, intentionally dumbed down and spread thin with very little intellectual or emotional stimuli. If you are able to watch this show and think it anything other than a waste of time then you should re-evaluate your view of self as a critical consumer of media, unless of course, you are a 9 yr old girl. I think the assumption that "intellectual stimuli" is a necessity for watching show is going to be my main point of disagreement. I could name several shows right now that are intended for older audiences and are completely devoid of any intellectual component of any kind (first that springs to mind is something like the sketch comedy show "Kids in the Hall"). Further, I would outright oppose the notion that there's no "emotional stimuli." I know that for myself, a large part of why I like the show is because its fucking cute as hell. It makes me happy. Sometimes I laugh. On another note, you had qualms with the show being a bad influence on youth? Even ignoring the fact that I disagree with that being true, I still see it as a bit of a moot point. If you're going to oppose any children's show that exhibit aspects of rivalry, you're going to damning a hell of a lot of shows. On August 12 2011 12:21 GMarshal wrote:Thank you for taking the time to write such a coherent criticism, my counterarguments/main points of disagreement are in bold inside the quote ^_^ Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:06 Crushgroove wrote:
I'm not bashing people for liking this, but I do wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion of its contribution to society, individual value as an example of media, and also question the legitimacy of the cultural fascination with this program.
I feel as though too many of the internet generation pursue this show for entertainment over other, much more intricate, well-writtten, and better produced forms of media for the sole reason that some other internet idiot has idolized the show. Because 4-chan and mmo-champion have vaunted a girls cartoon series to new heights does not mean that the show passes the rigors of actual critical examination.
It is a fair point that had this not been popularized by the Internet, most of us would not have heard of MLP, *however* it had to have something that caught the attention of the original group of people. There are many fads that have begun and died out in the early stages, yet MLP has survived and spread, to me this indicates it must have some kind of redeeming quality
I can understand that if this is the show for you, then you're not going to agree with me on this next point, but for those who are reading the reviews and opinions and wondering if this is the show for you, I feel obligated to share my assessment. A viewer has to dig to see any kind of benefit in the story telling of the show. The OP used the adjective "heart-warming". I don't think that fits. Numerous times in every episode I observed, including the recommended episode 7, the ponies sarcastically taunt and 1-up each other with what would be considered bad-manners in an elementary school classroom. They flaunt successes and are 'sore winners' when they achieve an inter-pony victory. They also ridicule and verbally torment companions who are frustrating. Hardly the societal behavior I want exhibited to the burgeoning young people of America.
What you see as "rudeness" and "bad manners" I consider the jokes and criticisms that are common in friendships. Often friends make fun of other friends faults, its a common thing, and part of healthy friendships. I assume you are referring to the fluttershy "not everyone can be as brave as I am" phrase, you may see it as jostling in the social hierarchy, I see it a semi-ironic comment between friends, as far as I can see its a reflection of a fairly healthy friendship
Furthermore, the vocabulary, sentence structure and writing styles aren't my biggest gripe, its character development and dramatic need. If you were to outline the dramatic narrative of any given episode, there isn't even a consistent protagonist. The show has the story-telling structure of an add rabbit trying to play DDR with his feet and whack-a-mole with his hands at the same time.
It is impossible to achieve true character development with such simplistic and under-developed story archs, and as such, cannot possibly emotionally involve the consumer of the media in the way that more intellectual pursuits (books, feature films, better TV series) can and do.
I fail to see the lack of focus, the episode has a very clear moral and objective through the 22 minutes, fluttershy needs to overcome her fear to defeat the dragon, all the other challenges highlight how much of an issue this is going to be. Sure there isn't a consistent protagonist from episode to episode, however practically every episode focuses on 1-2 ponies specifically (with a few exceptions). The show shows legitimate character development too, the best example is perhaps rarity, who starts out seemingly vain and fairly useless, still after "art of the dress" and "look before you sleep" its pretty obvious that the character is more complex than that, she is obviously finky and detail oriented, but when the getting gets hard she proves she can get her hands dirty and that she can use her wits as a weapon, her generous streak is also shown to overpower her vanity. You wouldn't get that from watching a single episode, yet the tangible whole is there, while the focus may seem slightly disjointed at times, I don't see that as a drawback
TL;DR: Its a childrens' show, intentionally dumbed down and spread thin with very little intellectual or emotional stimuli. If you are able to watch this show and think it anything other than a waste of time then you should re-evaluate your view of self as a critical consumer of media, unless of course, you are a 9 yr old girl.
I think you are being shallow and jumping to conclusions here, just because you cannot appreciate something doesn't mean its not "intellectually stimulating", which I will grant ponies are not. However I don't watch ponies to explore the limits of my intellect, I watch them to unwind
I think you guys are missing the point. I never said that if you look really hard and interpret the scenes of the show you can't find excellent lessons or examples of character development. My argument is not that the show is devoid of value, but that in 22 minutes of your time you can EASILY find something with much, much more.... and not doing so lazy consumerism and internet culture inertia at its best.
Either way, I don't think less of you for being a fan. I wanted to share my critique so people reading the thread being introduced to this somewhat internet cult phenomenon had an opposing perspective that wasn't "zomg yes! MOAR MLP! Everyone else umadbro lolol?"
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On August 12 2011 12:38 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:29 Zephos wrote:On August 12 2011 12:11 Bibbit wrote:On August 12 2011 12:04 Zephos wrote:On August 12 2011 11:56 Bibbit wrote:On August 12 2011 11:52 Zephos wrote:
I am just... so confused by this.
As far as I can see, the show has no outstanding characteristics that would warrant it getting such a cult following. People have said they've liked it in the thread, but it seems to me that they themselves don't even know why they like it so much. Most people just say "watch it yourself, then judge." Well, I did just that (at least, episode 7) and didn't see anything more than a typical kid's show. Granted, the production quality was above average, but not so much that it made up for the fact that the music, the dialogue, and even the art was all targeted towards little girls.
I guess there are things in the universe that are and always will be beyond my understanding. Meh, I dont really feel like its too confusing. Theres a show that some people like and you don't. I find such things happen pretty often. ^^ The difference is, usually I can at least partly see where people are coming from. For instance, I would never watch "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" on my own time. However, having watched segments of it in passing, I was able to identify appealing elements within the melodrama. Yet with "My Little Pony," I literally can't pin down barely any redeeming qualities. I still don't really see the difference. You dont see anything good about MLP at all. I, for example, couldnt fathom any way anyone could enjoy Paranormal Activity but I know people do. Alright so... let me try a metaphor. When a person commits a crime, like thievery, i can normally see why they did it. I personally don't weigh the pros of stealing over the cons of stealing, but I've felt jealous/desperate enough in the past to understand why someone would. However when the recent incident in Oslo happened, I was couldn't identify with the killer at all. Despite all of my life experiences, I can't see why someone would want to murder a bunch of random children. That's my issue with "My Little Pony." Normally, I can understand, if even a little, why certain people like certain shows. But with this show, I'm at a complete and total loss. The problem I have with that is one's opinions on media (TV shows, music, etc...) is a ton more subjective than one's opinion on crime. If you ask a sample of people "Do you like Seinfeld?" you're going to get a ton more variation than if you were to ask "Do you like murder?" Opinions on media are typically embedded in personality whereas opinions on crime are more embedded in being human. I just dont think its a comparable situation at all. Either way I'm pretty sure we're gonna have to agree to disagree. :D
It's the internet. There is no other course of action ; )
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United States22154 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:40 Crushgroove wrote:@ These replies: + Show Spoiler +On August 12 2011 12:23 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:06 Crushgroove wrote:
I'm not bashing people for liking this, but I do wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion of its contribution to society, individual value as an example of media, and also question the legitimacy of the cultural fascination with this program.
I feel as though too many of the internet generation pursue this show for entertainment over other, much more intricate, well-writtten, and better produced forms of media for the sole reason that some other internet idiot has idolized the show. Because 4-chan and mmo-champion have vaunted a girls cartoon series to new heights does not mean that the show passes the rigors of actual critical examination.
I can understand that if this is the show for you, then you're not going to agree with me on this next point, but for those who are reading the reviews and opinions and wondering if this is the show for you, I feel obligated to share my assessment. A viewer has to dig to see any kind of benefit in the story telling of the show. The OP used the adjective "heart-warming". I don't think that fits. Numerous times in every episode I observed, including the recommended episode 7, the ponies sarcastically taunt and 1-up each other with what would be considered bad-manners in an elementary school classroom. They flaunt successes and are 'sore winners' when they achieve an inter-pony victory. They also ridicule and verbally torment companions who are frustrating. Hardly the societal behavior I want exhibited to the burgeoning young people of America.
Furthermore, the vocabulary, sentence structure and writing styles aren't my biggest gripe, its character development and dramatic need. If you were to outline the dramatic narrative of any given episode, there isn't even a consistent protagonist. The show has the story-telling structure of an add rabbit trying to play DDR with his feet and whack-a-mole with his hands at the same time.
It is impossible to achieve true character development with such simplistic and under-developed story archs, and as such, cannot possibly emotionally involve the consumer of the media in the way that more intellectual pursuits (books, feature films, better TV series) can and do.
TL;DR: Its a childrens' show, intentionally dumbed down and spread thin with very little intellectual or emotional stimuli. If you are able to watch this show and think it anything other than a waste of time then you should re-evaluate your view of self as a critical consumer of media, unless of course, you are a 9 yr old girl. I think the assumption that "intellectual stimuli" is a necessity for watching show is going to be my main point of disagreement. I could name several shows right now that are intended for older audiences and are completely devoid of any intellectual component of any kind (first that springs to mind is something like the sketch comedy show "Kids in the Hall"). Further, I would outright oppose the notion that there's no "emotional stimuli." I know that for myself, a large part of why I like the show is because its fucking cute as hell. It makes me happy. Sometimes I laugh. On another note, you had qualms with the show being a bad influence on youth? Even ignoring the fact that I disagree with that being true, I still see it as a bit of a moot point. If you're going to oppose any children's show that exhibit aspects of rivalry, you're going to damning a hell of a lot of shows. On August 12 2011 12:21 GMarshal wrote:Thank you for taking the time to write such a coherent criticism, my counterarguments/main points of disagreement are in bold inside the quote ^_^ Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:06 Crushgroove wrote:
I'm not bashing people for liking this, but I do wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion of its contribution to society, individual value as an example of media, and also question the legitimacy of the cultural fascination with this program.
I feel as though too many of the internet generation pursue this show for entertainment over other, much more intricate, well-writtten, and better produced forms of media for the sole reason that some other internet idiot has idolized the show. Because 4-chan and mmo-champion have vaunted a girls cartoon series to new heights does not mean that the show passes the rigors of actual critical examination.
It is a fair point that had this not been popularized by the Internet, most of us would not have heard of MLP, *however* it had to have something that caught the attention of the original group of people. There are many fads that have begun and died out in the early stages, yet MLP has survived and spread, to me this indicates it must have some kind of redeeming quality
I can understand that if this is the show for you, then you're not going to agree with me on this next point, but for those who are reading the reviews and opinions and wondering if this is the show for you, I feel obligated to share my assessment. A viewer has to dig to see any kind of benefit in the story telling of the show. The OP used the adjective "heart-warming". I don't think that fits. Numerous times in every episode I observed, including the recommended episode 7, the ponies sarcastically taunt and 1-up each other with what would be considered bad-manners in an elementary school classroom. They flaunt successes and are 'sore winners' when they achieve an inter-pony victory. They also ridicule and verbally torment companions who are frustrating. Hardly the societal behavior I want exhibited to the burgeoning young people of America.
What you see as "rudeness" and "bad manners" I consider the jokes and criticisms that are common in friendships. Often friends make fun of other friends faults, its a common thing, and part of healthy friendships. I assume you are referring to the fluttershy "not everyone can be as brave as I am" phrase, you may see it as jostling in the social hierarchy, I see it a semi-ironic comment between friends, as far as I can see its a reflection of a fairly healthy friendship
Furthermore, the vocabulary, sentence structure and writing styles aren't my biggest gripe, its character development and dramatic need. If you were to outline the dramatic narrative of any given episode, there isn't even a consistent protagonist. The show has the story-telling structure of an add rabbit trying to play DDR with his feet and whack-a-mole with his hands at the same time.
It is impossible to achieve true character development with such simplistic and under-developed story archs, and as such, cannot possibly emotionally involve the consumer of the media in the way that more intellectual pursuits (books, feature films, better TV series) can and do.
I fail to see the lack of focus, the episode has a very clear moral and objective through the 22 minutes, fluttershy needs to overcome her fear to defeat the dragon, all the other challenges highlight how much of an issue this is going to be. Sure there isn't a consistent protagonist from episode to episode, however practically every episode focuses on 1-2 ponies specifically (with a few exceptions). The show shows legitimate character development too, the best example is perhaps rarity, who starts out seemingly vain and fairly useless, still after "art of the dress" and "look before you sleep" its pretty obvious that the character is more complex than that, she is obviously finky and detail oriented, but when the getting gets hard she proves she can get her hands dirty and that she can use her wits as a weapon, her generous streak is also shown to overpower her vanity. You wouldn't get that from watching a single episode, yet the tangible whole is there, while the focus may seem slightly disjointed at times, I don't see that as a drawback
TL;DR: Its a childrens' show, intentionally dumbed down and spread thin with very little intellectual or emotional stimuli. If you are able to watch this show and think it anything other than a waste of time then you should re-evaluate your view of self as a critical consumer of media, unless of course, you are a 9 yr old girl.
I think you are being shallow and jumping to conclusions here, just because you cannot appreciate something doesn't mean its not "intellectually stimulating", which I will grant ponies are not. However I don't watch ponies to explore the limits of my intellect, I watch them to unwind I think you guys are missing the point. I never said that if you look really hard and interpret the scenes of the show you can't find excellent lessons or examples of character development. My argument is not that the show is devoid of value, but that in 22 minutes of your time you can EASILY find something with much, much more.... and not doing so lazy consumerism and internet culture inertia at its best.
And I think its a matter of what you are looking for, you see if I want to distract myself with a mildly entertaining, innocent show, all I have to do is open youtube and type "My Little Pony Friendship is Magic" and wham,I'm set for 22 minutes. The point is to relax and enjoy myself. Could I spend two hours looking and find some obscure production from a german author that has deep character development and an overreaching complex plot? Yes, I probably could, but that would be hours of searching for something that isn't what I'm after, all I want from the ponies is a smile and lots of bright colors, the same way that if I want cheap fun violence I pop in a hellsing ultimate dvd, or if I want fast biased news I flip on any news channel.
EDIT: Still, I'm glad we can have intelligent discussion about this without devolving to hurling insults and demeaning each other ^_^
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On August 12 2011 12:40 Crushgroove wrote:@ These replies: + Show Spoiler +On August 12 2011 12:23 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:06 Crushgroove wrote:
I'm not bashing people for liking this, but I do wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion of its contribution to society, individual value as an example of media, and also question the legitimacy of the cultural fascination with this program.
I feel as though too many of the internet generation pursue this show for entertainment over other, much more intricate, well-writtten, and better produced forms of media for the sole reason that some other internet idiot has idolized the show. Because 4-chan and mmo-champion have vaunted a girls cartoon series to new heights does not mean that the show passes the rigors of actual critical examination.
I can understand that if this is the show for you, then you're not going to agree with me on this next point, but for those who are reading the reviews and opinions and wondering if this is the show for you, I feel obligated to share my assessment. A viewer has to dig to see any kind of benefit in the story telling of the show. The OP used the adjective "heart-warming". I don't think that fits. Numerous times in every episode I observed, including the recommended episode 7, the ponies sarcastically taunt and 1-up each other with what would be considered bad-manners in an elementary school classroom. They flaunt successes and are 'sore winners' when they achieve an inter-pony victory. They also ridicule and verbally torment companions who are frustrating. Hardly the societal behavior I want exhibited to the burgeoning young people of America.
Furthermore, the vocabulary, sentence structure and writing styles aren't my biggest gripe, its character development and dramatic need. If you were to outline the dramatic narrative of any given episode, there isn't even a consistent protagonist. The show has the story-telling structure of an add rabbit trying to play DDR with his feet and whack-a-mole with his hands at the same time.
It is impossible to achieve true character development with such simplistic and under-developed story archs, and as such, cannot possibly emotionally involve the consumer of the media in the way that more intellectual pursuits (books, feature films, better TV series) can and do.
TL;DR: Its a childrens' show, intentionally dumbed down and spread thin with very little intellectual or emotional stimuli. If you are able to watch this show and think it anything other than a waste of time then you should re-evaluate your view of self as a critical consumer of media, unless of course, you are a 9 yr old girl. I think the assumption that "intellectual stimuli" is a necessity for watching show is going to be my main point of disagreement. I could name several shows right now that are intended for older audiences and are completely devoid of any intellectual component of any kind (first that springs to mind is something like the sketch comedy show "Kids in the Hall"). Further, I would outright oppose the notion that there's no "emotional stimuli." I know that for myself, a large part of why I like the show is because its fucking cute as hell. It makes me happy. Sometimes I laugh. On another note, you had qualms with the show being a bad influence on youth? Even ignoring the fact that I disagree with that being true, I still see it as a bit of a moot point. If you're going to oppose any children's show that exhibit aspects of rivalry, you're going to damning a hell of a lot of shows. On August 12 2011 12:21 GMarshal wrote:Thank you for taking the time to write such a coherent criticism, my counterarguments/main points of disagreement are in bold inside the quote ^_^ Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:06 Crushgroove wrote:
I'm not bashing people for liking this, but I do wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion of its contribution to society, individual value as an example of media, and also question the legitimacy of the cultural fascination with this program.
I feel as though too many of the internet generation pursue this show for entertainment over other, much more intricate, well-writtten, and better produced forms of media for the sole reason that some other internet idiot has idolized the show. Because 4-chan and mmo-champion have vaunted a girls cartoon series to new heights does not mean that the show passes the rigors of actual critical examination.
It is a fair point that had this not been popularized by the Internet, most of us would not have heard of MLP, *however* it had to have something that caught the attention of the original group of people. There are many fads that have begun and died out in the early stages, yet MLP has survived and spread, to me this indicates it must have some kind of redeeming quality
I can understand that if this is the show for you, then you're not going to agree with me on this next point, but for those who are reading the reviews and opinions and wondering if this is the show for you, I feel obligated to share my assessment. A viewer has to dig to see any kind of benefit in the story telling of the show. The OP used the adjective "heart-warming". I don't think that fits. Numerous times in every episode I observed, including the recommended episode 7, the ponies sarcastically taunt and 1-up each other with what would be considered bad-manners in an elementary school classroom. They flaunt successes and are 'sore winners' when they achieve an inter-pony victory. They also ridicule and verbally torment companions who are frustrating. Hardly the societal behavior I want exhibited to the burgeoning young people of America.
What you see as "rudeness" and "bad manners" I consider the jokes and criticisms that are common in friendships. Often friends make fun of other friends faults, its a common thing, and part of healthy friendships. I assume you are referring to the fluttershy "not everyone can be as brave as I am" phrase, you may see it as jostling in the social hierarchy, I see it a semi-ironic comment between friends, as far as I can see its a reflection of a fairly healthy friendship
Furthermore, the vocabulary, sentence structure and writing styles aren't my biggest gripe, its character development and dramatic need. If you were to outline the dramatic narrative of any given episode, there isn't even a consistent protagonist. The show has the story-telling structure of an add rabbit trying to play DDR with his feet and whack-a-mole with his hands at the same time.
It is impossible to achieve true character development with such simplistic and under-developed story archs, and as such, cannot possibly emotionally involve the consumer of the media in the way that more intellectual pursuits (books, feature films, better TV series) can and do.
I fail to see the lack of focus, the episode has a very clear moral and objective through the 22 minutes, fluttershy needs to overcome her fear to defeat the dragon, all the other challenges highlight how much of an issue this is going to be. Sure there isn't a consistent protagonist from episode to episode, however practically every episode focuses on 1-2 ponies specifically (with a few exceptions). The show shows legitimate character development too, the best example is perhaps rarity, who starts out seemingly vain and fairly useless, still after "art of the dress" and "look before you sleep" its pretty obvious that the character is more complex than that, she is obviously finky and detail oriented, but when the getting gets hard she proves she can get her hands dirty and that she can use her wits as a weapon, her generous streak is also shown to overpower her vanity. You wouldn't get that from watching a single episode, yet the tangible whole is there, while the focus may seem slightly disjointed at times, I don't see that as a drawback
TL;DR: Its a childrens' show, intentionally dumbed down and spread thin with very little intellectual or emotional stimuli. If you are able to watch this show and think it anything other than a waste of time then you should re-evaluate your view of self as a critical consumer of media, unless of course, you are a 9 yr old girl.
I think you are being shallow and jumping to conclusions here, just because you cannot appreciate something doesn't mean its not "intellectually stimulating", which I will grant ponies are not. However I don't watch ponies to explore the limits of my intellect, I watch them to unwind I think you guys are missing the point. I never said that if you look really hard and interpret the scenes of the show you can't find excellent lessons or examples of character development. My argument is not that the show is devoid of value, but that in 22 minutes of your time you can EASILY find something with much, much more.... and not doing so lazy consumerism and internet culture inertia at its best. Either way, I don't think less of you for being a fan. I wanted to share my critique so people reading the thread being introduced to this somewhat internet cult phenomenon had an opposing perspective that wasn't "zomg yes! MOAR MLP! Everyone else umadbro lolol?"
I personally appreciate you taking time to prepare what I will totally agree is a perfectly reasonable opinion.
That said, are you actually opposed to people watching something because they like it rather than because they want to combat "lazy consumerism and internet culture inertia"? I know that I have never once considered how my TV viewing habits impact the progression of civilization. :/
Edit: @ Zephos. Another good point.  Its been fun. ^^
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On August 12 2011 12:40 Crushgroove wrote:@ These replies: + Show Spoiler +On August 12 2011 12:23 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:06 Crushgroove wrote:
I'm not bashing people for liking this, but I do wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion of its contribution to society, individual value as an example of media, and also question the legitimacy of the cultural fascination with this program.
I feel as though too many of the internet generation pursue this show for entertainment over other, much more intricate, well-writtten, and better produced forms of media for the sole reason that some other internet idiot has idolized the show. Because 4-chan and mmo-champion have vaunted a girls cartoon series to new heights does not mean that the show passes the rigors of actual critical examination.
I can understand that if this is the show for you, then you're not going to agree with me on this next point, but for those who are reading the reviews and opinions and wondering if this is the show for you, I feel obligated to share my assessment. A viewer has to dig to see any kind of benefit in the story telling of the show. The OP used the adjective "heart-warming". I don't think that fits. Numerous times in every episode I observed, including the recommended episode 7, the ponies sarcastically taunt and 1-up each other with what would be considered bad-manners in an elementary school classroom. They flaunt successes and are 'sore winners' when they achieve an inter-pony victory. They also ridicule and verbally torment companions who are frustrating. Hardly the societal behavior I want exhibited to the burgeoning young people of America.
Furthermore, the vocabulary, sentence structure and writing styles aren't my biggest gripe, its character development and dramatic need. If you were to outline the dramatic narrative of any given episode, there isn't even a consistent protagonist. The show has the story-telling structure of an add rabbit trying to play DDR with his feet and whack-a-mole with his hands at the same time.
It is impossible to achieve true character development with such simplistic and under-developed story archs, and as such, cannot possibly emotionally involve the consumer of the media in the way that more intellectual pursuits (books, feature films, better TV series) can and do.
TL;DR: Its a childrens' show, intentionally dumbed down and spread thin with very little intellectual or emotional stimuli. If you are able to watch this show and think it anything other than a waste of time then you should re-evaluate your view of self as a critical consumer of media, unless of course, you are a 9 yr old girl. I think the assumption that "intellectual stimuli" is a necessity for watching show is going to be my main point of disagreement. I could name several shows right now that are intended for older audiences and are completely devoid of any intellectual component of any kind (first that springs to mind is something like the sketch comedy show "Kids in the Hall"). Further, I would outright oppose the notion that there's no "emotional stimuli." I know that for myself, a large part of why I like the show is because its fucking cute as hell. It makes me happy. Sometimes I laugh. On another note, you had qualms with the show being a bad influence on youth? Even ignoring the fact that I disagree with that being true, I still see it as a bit of a moot point. If you're going to oppose any children's show that exhibit aspects of rivalry, you're going to damning a hell of a lot of shows. On August 12 2011 12:21 GMarshal wrote:Thank you for taking the time to write such a coherent criticism, my counterarguments/main points of disagreement are in bold inside the quote ^_^ Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:06 Crushgroove wrote:
I'm not bashing people for liking this, but I do wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion of its contribution to society, individual value as an example of media, and also question the legitimacy of the cultural fascination with this program.
I feel as though too many of the internet generation pursue this show for entertainment over other, much more intricate, well-writtten, and better produced forms of media for the sole reason that some other internet idiot has idolized the show. Because 4-chan and mmo-champion have vaunted a girls cartoon series to new heights does not mean that the show passes the rigors of actual critical examination.
It is a fair point that had this not been popularized by the Internet, most of us would not have heard of MLP, *however* it had to have something that caught the attention of the original group of people. There are many fads that have begun and died out in the early stages, yet MLP has survived and spread, to me this indicates it must have some kind of redeeming quality
I can understand that if this is the show for you, then you're not going to agree with me on this next point, but for those who are reading the reviews and opinions and wondering if this is the show for you, I feel obligated to share my assessment. A viewer has to dig to see any kind of benefit in the story telling of the show. The OP used the adjective "heart-warming". I don't think that fits. Numerous times in every episode I observed, including the recommended episode 7, the ponies sarcastically taunt and 1-up each other with what would be considered bad-manners in an elementary school classroom. They flaunt successes and are 'sore winners' when they achieve an inter-pony victory. They also ridicule and verbally torment companions who are frustrating. Hardly the societal behavior I want exhibited to the burgeoning young people of America.
What you see as "rudeness" and "bad manners" I consider the jokes and criticisms that are common in friendships. Often friends make fun of other friends faults, its a common thing, and part of healthy friendships. I assume you are referring to the fluttershy "not everyone can be as brave as I am" phrase, you may see it as jostling in the social hierarchy, I see it a semi-ironic comment between friends, as far as I can see its a reflection of a fairly healthy friendship
Furthermore, the vocabulary, sentence structure and writing styles aren't my biggest gripe, its character development and dramatic need. If you were to outline the dramatic narrative of any given episode, there isn't even a consistent protagonist. The show has the story-telling structure of an add rabbit trying to play DDR with his feet and whack-a-mole with his hands at the same time.
It is impossible to achieve true character development with such simplistic and under-developed story archs, and as such, cannot possibly emotionally involve the consumer of the media in the way that more intellectual pursuits (books, feature films, better TV series) can and do.
I fail to see the lack of focus, the episode has a very clear moral and objective through the 22 minutes, fluttershy needs to overcome her fear to defeat the dragon, all the other challenges highlight how much of an issue this is going to be. Sure there isn't a consistent protagonist from episode to episode, however practically every episode focuses on 1-2 ponies specifically (with a few exceptions). The show shows legitimate character development too, the best example is perhaps rarity, who starts out seemingly vain and fairly useless, still after "art of the dress" and "look before you sleep" its pretty obvious that the character is more complex than that, she is obviously finky and detail oriented, but when the getting gets hard she proves she can get her hands dirty and that she can use her wits as a weapon, her generous streak is also shown to overpower her vanity. You wouldn't get that from watching a single episode, yet the tangible whole is there, while the focus may seem slightly disjointed at times, I don't see that as a drawback
TL;DR: Its a childrens' show, intentionally dumbed down and spread thin with very little intellectual or emotional stimuli. If you are able to watch this show and think it anything other than a waste of time then you should re-evaluate your view of self as a critical consumer of media, unless of course, you are a 9 yr old girl.
I think you are being shallow and jumping to conclusions here, just because you cannot appreciate something doesn't mean its not "intellectually stimulating", which I will grant ponies are not. However I don't watch ponies to explore the limits of my intellect, I watch them to unwind I think you guys are missing the point. I never said that if you look really hard and interpret the scenes of the show you can't find excellent lessons or examples of character development. My argument is not that the show is devoid of value, but that in 22 minutes of your time you can EASILY find something with much, much more.... and not doing so lazy consumerism and internet culture inertia at its best. Either way, I don't think less of you for being a fan. I wanted to share my critique so people reading the thread being introduced to this somewhat internet cult phenomenon had an opposing perspective that wasn't "zomg yes! MOAR MLP! Everyone else umadbro lolol?"
How many episodes have you watched to make that judgment? As a few people have already said, the first few episodes aren't representative of the whole. If anything, the first two were just there to make Hasbro happy before Lauren Faust could really start making it her own thing.
I don't agree with this whole "Hey watch ep 7 or 13 because that's what MLP is" line of thought. Everyone has their favourite episodes, their favourite character. And no you don't have to look very hard and nor do you have to interpret anything to arrive at any of those conclusions.
I would say watch from episode 3 onward though.
But frankly, let the haters hate. Those of us who gave it a chance (and that does mean watching more than an episode or two) know how good it is.
And why isn't fluttershy singing the evil witch song in the song poll?!
<3 Pinkie Pie!
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United States22154 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:57 TMStarcraft wrote:
And why isn't fluttershy singing the evil witch song in the song poll?!
<3 Pinkie Pie!
I... can't believe I forgot that...
I am now deeply ashamed...
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Why isn't this spotlighted yet?! Fluttershy FIGHTING! <3
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The problem I have with that is one's opinions on media (TV shows, music, etc...) is a ton more subjective than one's opinion on crime. If you ask a sample of people "Do you like Seinfeld?" you're going to get a ton more variation than if you were to ask "Do you like murder?"
Opinions on media are typically embedded in personality whereas opinions on crime are more embedded in being human. I just dont think its a comparable situation at all.
Either way I'm pretty sure we're gonna have to agree to disagree. :D
I think one of the differences here is that it is socially unacceptable for people to say something like "Yes, I like murder" even if they thought it was cool and interesting, where if you were to give an opinion of Seinfeld nothing would happen except a chance of someone saying they disagree. Murder used to be considered pretty cool by the general public. It's one of the reasons the Colosseum worked.
People do like murder though, which is why violent shows like Game of Thrones can exist with such positive reception. If you replaced all the violence with rainbows and all the characters with brightly colored ponies no one would watch it. The story (no matter how much they think it rocks) would not be enough to support the public. People love murder, but they don't like to admit it. Bronies love MLP, and they're not afraid to show it.
Personally, I'd much rather see Pony memes floating around the internet than the "Forever alone" and "FFFFFFFFuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu" memes that I see everywhere. They've never been amusing or clever, and they're a terrible eyesore.
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On August 12 2011 12:47 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:40 Crushgroove wrote:@ These replies: + Show Spoiler +On August 12 2011 12:23 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:06 Crushgroove wrote:
I'm not bashing people for liking this, but I do wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion of its contribution to society, individual value as an example of media, and also question the legitimacy of the cultural fascination with this program.
I feel as though too many of the internet generation pursue this show for entertainment over other, much more intricate, well-writtten, and better produced forms of media for the sole reason that some other internet idiot has idolized the show. Because 4-chan and mmo-champion have vaunted a girls cartoon series to new heights does not mean that the show passes the rigors of actual critical examination.
I can understand that if this is the show for you, then you're not going to agree with me on this next point, but for those who are reading the reviews and opinions and wondering if this is the show for you, I feel obligated to share my assessment. A viewer has to dig to see any kind of benefit in the story telling of the show. The OP used the adjective "heart-warming". I don't think that fits. Numerous times in every episode I observed, including the recommended episode 7, the ponies sarcastically taunt and 1-up each other with what would be considered bad-manners in an elementary school classroom. They flaunt successes and are 'sore winners' when they achieve an inter-pony victory. They also ridicule and verbally torment companions who are frustrating. Hardly the societal behavior I want exhibited to the burgeoning young people of America.
Furthermore, the vocabulary, sentence structure and writing styles aren't my biggest gripe, its character development and dramatic need. If you were to outline the dramatic narrative of any given episode, there isn't even a consistent protagonist. The show has the story-telling structure of an add rabbit trying to play DDR with his feet and whack-a-mole with his hands at the same time.
It is impossible to achieve true character development with such simplistic and under-developed story archs, and as such, cannot possibly emotionally involve the consumer of the media in the way that more intellectual pursuits (books, feature films, better TV series) can and do.
TL;DR: Its a childrens' show, intentionally dumbed down and spread thin with very little intellectual or emotional stimuli. If you are able to watch this show and think it anything other than a waste of time then you should re-evaluate your view of self as a critical consumer of media, unless of course, you are a 9 yr old girl. I think the assumption that "intellectual stimuli" is a necessity for watching show is going to be my main point of disagreement. I could name several shows right now that are intended for older audiences and are completely devoid of any intellectual component of any kind (first that springs to mind is something like the sketch comedy show "Kids in the Hall"). Further, I would outright oppose the notion that there's no "emotional stimuli." I know that for myself, a large part of why I like the show is because its fucking cute as hell. It makes me happy. Sometimes I laugh. On another note, you had qualms with the show being a bad influence on youth? Even ignoring the fact that I disagree with that being true, I still see it as a bit of a moot point. If you're going to oppose any children's show that exhibit aspects of rivalry, you're going to damning a hell of a lot of shows. On August 12 2011 12:21 GMarshal wrote:Thank you for taking the time to write such a coherent criticism, my counterarguments/main points of disagreement are in bold inside the quote ^_^ Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:06 Crushgroove wrote:
I'm not bashing people for liking this, but I do wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion of its contribution to society, individual value as an example of media, and also question the legitimacy of the cultural fascination with this program.
I feel as though too many of the internet generation pursue this show for entertainment over other, much more intricate, well-writtten, and better produced forms of media for the sole reason that some other internet idiot has idolized the show. Because 4-chan and mmo-champion have vaunted a girls cartoon series to new heights does not mean that the show passes the rigors of actual critical examination.
It is a fair point that had this not been popularized by the Internet, most of us would not have heard of MLP, *however* it had to have something that caught the attention of the original group of people. There are many fads that have begun and died out in the early stages, yet MLP has survived and spread, to me this indicates it must have some kind of redeeming quality
I can understand that if this is the show for you, then you're not going to agree with me on this next point, but for those who are reading the reviews and opinions and wondering if this is the show for you, I feel obligated to share my assessment. A viewer has to dig to see any kind of benefit in the story telling of the show. The OP used the adjective "heart-warming". I don't think that fits. Numerous times in every episode I observed, including the recommended episode 7, the ponies sarcastically taunt and 1-up each other with what would be considered bad-manners in an elementary school classroom. They flaunt successes and are 'sore winners' when they achieve an inter-pony victory. They also ridicule and verbally torment companions who are frustrating. Hardly the societal behavior I want exhibited to the burgeoning young people of America.
What you see as "rudeness" and "bad manners" I consider the jokes and criticisms that are common in friendships. Often friends make fun of other friends faults, its a common thing, and part of healthy friendships. I assume you are referring to the fluttershy "not everyone can be as brave as I am" phrase, you may see it as jostling in the social hierarchy, I see it a semi-ironic comment between friends, as far as I can see its a reflection of a fairly healthy friendship
Furthermore, the vocabulary, sentence structure and writing styles aren't my biggest gripe, its character development and dramatic need. If you were to outline the dramatic narrative of any given episode, there isn't even a consistent protagonist. The show has the story-telling structure of an add rabbit trying to play DDR with his feet and whack-a-mole with his hands at the same time.
It is impossible to achieve true character development with such simplistic and under-developed story archs, and as such, cannot possibly emotionally involve the consumer of the media in the way that more intellectual pursuits (books, feature films, better TV series) can and do.
I fail to see the lack of focus, the episode has a very clear moral and objective through the 22 minutes, fluttershy needs to overcome her fear to defeat the dragon, all the other challenges highlight how much of an issue this is going to be. Sure there isn't a consistent protagonist from episode to episode, however practically every episode focuses on 1-2 ponies specifically (with a few exceptions). The show shows legitimate character development too, the best example is perhaps rarity, who starts out seemingly vain and fairly useless, still after "art of the dress" and "look before you sleep" its pretty obvious that the character is more complex than that, she is obviously finky and detail oriented, but when the getting gets hard she proves she can get her hands dirty and that she can use her wits as a weapon, her generous streak is also shown to overpower her vanity. You wouldn't get that from watching a single episode, yet the tangible whole is there, while the focus may seem slightly disjointed at times, I don't see that as a drawback
TL;DR: Its a childrens' show, intentionally dumbed down and spread thin with very little intellectual or emotional stimuli. If you are able to watch this show and think it anything other than a waste of time then you should re-evaluate your view of self as a critical consumer of media, unless of course, you are a 9 yr old girl.
I think you are being shallow and jumping to conclusions here, just because you cannot appreciate something doesn't mean its not "intellectually stimulating", which I will grant ponies are not. However I don't watch ponies to explore the limits of my intellect, I watch them to unwind I think you guys are missing the point. I never said that if you look really hard and interpret the scenes of the show you can't find excellent lessons or examples of character development. My argument is not that the show is devoid of value, but that in 22 minutes of your time you can EASILY find something with much, much more.... and not doing so lazy consumerism and internet culture inertia at its best. Either way, I don't think less of you for being a fan. I wanted to share my critique so people reading the thread being introduced to this somewhat internet cult phenomenon had an opposing perspective that wasn't "zomg yes! MOAR MLP! Everyone else umadbro lolol?" I personally appreciate you taking time to prepare what I will totally agree is a perfectly reasonable opinion. That said, are you actually opposed to people watching something because they like it rather than because they want to combat "lazy consumerism and internet culture inertia"? I know that I have never once considered how my TV viewing habits impact the progression of civilization. :/ Edit: @ Zephos. Another good point. Its been fun. ^^
I agree. Realistically (and it's reasonable too), people are going to enjoy things that may not contribute to their knowledge which may contribute to society as a whole.
Like sure Jeopardy or Myth Busters is educational (Myth Busters save lives. There was one person who saved themselves from drowning in a car thanks to knowing that you should wait until the car is fully submerged before trying to open the door[save your energy, wait for the water to fully submerge the car, and don't panic!]. Now you know and I'm sure many lives will now be saved in the future thanks to this post.) but some people may prefer something else (especially after a rough day or something) and I agree with it.
A comparison is Starcraft. Does playing Starcraft teach people to save lives? Well not really but it's not wrong to enjoy and play Starcraft. Sure they can read wikipedia instead to try to learn how to perform <insert life saving technique or society contributing technique here> but they don't.
I don't find that wrong really since realistically and practically sometimes people just need to find some "mindless" entertainment to relax and maybe perform better at the job environment (which is a good thing).
Also *watching and supporting said show gives people jobs. Yes it's mindless entertainment but it gives people jobs.
*Okay some may say most people watch it on their computers and aren't affecting view counts or anything but I know plenty of people who have bought merchandise from this show after being introduced to the show. That helps too.
Also some may say Starcraft contributes to APM and eSports and thinking skills but my response is the same - I don't think it's wrong to play say *mindless entertaining game* over Starcraft either. Sure if people will grow their capabilities as a human if they play SC + watch Myth Busters and Jeopardy + surf Wikipedia everyday but for a lot of people that's just not what they want and I think it's reasonable (most people will prefer whatever they'll continue to prefer and go for it.).
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MMY LITTLE PONY:: FUCK YEAHH!!!
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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On August 12 2011 13:01 Petninja wrote:Show nested quote +
The problem I have with that is one's opinions on media (TV shows, music, etc...) is a ton more subjective than one's opinion on crime. If you ask a sample of people "Do you like Seinfeld?" you're going to get a ton more variation than if you were to ask "Do you like murder?"
Opinions on media are typically embedded in personality whereas opinions on crime are more embedded in being human. I just dont think its a comparable situation at all.
Either way I'm pretty sure we're gonna have to agree to disagree. :D
I think one of the differences here is that it is socially unacceptable for people to say something like "Yes, I like murder" even if they thought it was cool and interesting, where if you were to give an opinion of Seinfeld nothing would happen except a chance of someone saying they disagree. Murder used to be considered pretty cool by the general public. It's one of the reasons the Colosseum worked. People do like murder though, which is why violent shows like Game of Thrones can exist with such positive reception. If you replaced all the violence with rainbows and all the characters with brightly colored ponies no one would watch it. The story (no matter how much they think it rocks) would not be enough to support the public. People love murder, but they don't like to admit it. Bronies love MLP, and they're not afraid to show it. Personally, I'd much rather see Pony memes floating around the internet than the "Forever alone" and "FFFFFFFFuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu" memes that I see everywhere. They've never been amusing or clever, and they're a terrible eyesore.
Yeah sorry for not being too clear. The guy was talking about the tragedy in Oslo. Its not fictitious murders we're talking about, its a bunch of real dead people, many of them just kids. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find people who support that, publicly or otherwise (yes I know they're out there but you know what I mean). ^^ Again, my fault for being vague.
And @ Goldfish, I'm very ashamed of not thinking about the comparison to Starcraft. It just fits so well. :/ Well played Mr. Fish.
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I've actually stopped watching the GSL because of MLP...
Spend most of my time now on Equestria Daily :D
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Big ups to the OP gmarshal! I have seriously never seen this level of legitimate discussion in a thread before, despite how heated this issue might be (of course, there is the usual contigent of trolls/fools).
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I love my little pony, good to see a show for children with good morals.
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havent watched much of it myself, only like 1 or 2 episodes, but still...
Fluttershy all the way!
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FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Why did I watch episode 1!!!!!!!!! Now I have to watch them all!!!
There should be a disclaimer alert for addictive content.
Fuck this is just like pokemon games.
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EPT
