EPT[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 400
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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SpikeStarcraft
Germany2095 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18405 Posts
On June 21 2013 05:35 SpikeStarcraft wrote: as though dany would hire a faceless man. More to the point: as if Arya would kill Jon. | ||
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JumboJohnson
537 Posts
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MajuGarzett
Canada635 Posts
On June 21 2013 11:10 Sqisgar wrote: If Victarion blows the horn he dies. No way do his lungs stand the searing heat. If Dany blows it on the other hand... I'm pretty sure Moqorro tells Victarion to have someone else blow the horn. | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
On June 21 2013 12:05 MajuGarzett wrote: I'm pretty sure Moqorro tells Victarion to have someone else blow the horn. Yeah, he has three of his oarsmen lined up to do it. | ||
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JumboJohnson
537 Posts
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kleetzor
Germany360 Posts
On June 21 2013 14:29 Sqisgar wrote: And they will fail and just piss the dragons off. This I fervently hope. I don't think they will fail in the sense of not blowing the horn, or not doing it right. I think the failure will come in that Victarion is not the real owner of the horn, as it was given to him, he didn't "win" it. The point I'm getting to is that when it is spoken of the horn, someone mentions the fact that the dragons will obey the actual owner of the horn, not the one who possesses it. edit: Found it, "... The dragons will come to the horn's master. You must claim the horn. With blood." Moqorro to Victarion. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On June 21 2013 00:41 quirinus wrote: Three eyes = three dragons Three eyes has always been a symbol of second sight or seerhood, I don't think it goes further than that here. | ||
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Restrider
Germany129 Posts
On June 21 2013 05:23 Figgy wrote: Arya shows up as a faceless man and kills Jon Snow and Stannis after being hired by Dany before her death. Varys appears out of nowhere to claim the Iron Throne. All according to plan. Would be a peculiar king, since Varys is a eunuch, he is not able to procreate... | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6660 Posts
On June 22 2013 00:59 Restrider wrote: Would be a peculiar king, since Varys is a eunuch, he is not able to procreate... I Don't think Varys has any intention of sitting on the Iron throne, I'm pretty sure he wants Aegon(Whether he is truly the real one or not)to be king and kind of rule from the small council/bring peace to lands etc. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12491 Posts
On June 20 2013 20:09 Adron wrote: Okay then, one more just to keep it going, combining theories. 3 dragons, 3 riders. Aegon had 2 sisters, and married em both. Dany has 2 brothers (possibly), Jon and (F)aegon. Well, there ye go! Oh and, its in my list of most likely endings, so it isnt my prophecy or something. Nor do i htink im the first one to think of it. Aegon isn't Dany's brother, he's Dany's nephew. Also every one is assuming that the three heads of the dragon must be the three dragonriders. I think that's a mistake; you don't need to be a Targ to ride a dragon, as George said himself. Three heads of the dragon simply means that there must be three branches of the Targaryen house for a specific prophecy to be fulfilled, a prophecy that we haven't heard yet. Rhaegar and Aemon, when they read that in his own little prophecy book that Sam will probably find in Oldtown, became concerned that there were only two branches (Aegon and Viserys), so Rhaegar went after Lyanna to create a third (Jon). Now all the bastard topics become really important, because we have potentially more than three heads. If Tyrion is the bastard of Aerys, which seems likely, then that's a head that Rhaegar didn't know of. If Aegon is a fake, then he's no head. Now if Aegon is alive and Tyrion is a Targ also, then that's four heads of the dragon, one too many, and Rhaegar pwned the prophecy he was trying to accomplish by fathering Jon where there was no plan in prophecy for Jon to be fathered. | ||
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Koerage
Netherlands1220 Posts
On June 22 2013 01:53 Nebuchad wrote: Aegon isn't Dany's brother, he's Dany's nephew. Also every one is assuming that the three heads of the dragon must be the three dragonriders. I think that's a mistake; you don't need to be a Targ to ride a dragon, as George said himself. Three heads of the dragon simply means that there must be three branches of the Targaryen house for a specific prophecy to be fulfilled, a prophecy that we haven't heard yet. Rhaegar and Aemon, when they read that in his own little prophecy book that Sam will probably find in Oldtown, became concerned that there were only two branches (Aegon and Viserys), so Rhaegar went after Lyanna to create a third (Jon). Now all the bastard topics become really important, because we have potentially more than three heads. If Tyrion is the bastard of Aerys, which seems likely, then that's a head that Rhaegar didn't know of. If Aegon is a fake, then he's no head. Now if Aegon is alive and Tyrion is a Targ also, then that's four heads of the dragon, one too many, and Rhaegar pwned the prophecy he was trying to accomplish by fathering Jon where there was no plan in prophecy for Jon to be fathered. or Aegon is fake and Tyrion IS a lannister after all, so we're still shy of one head. lots of options there! | ||
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Restrider
Germany129 Posts
What does support such assertions? | ||
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MajuGarzett
Canada635 Posts
On June 22 2013 03:03 Restrider wrote: Just out of curiousity, why is everyone so sure that Aegon is fake? What does support such assertions? http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/156odh/spoilers_all_complete_analysis_of_the_blackfyre/ That's a summary of most of the supporting info. | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
The other non-hard evidence that biases many people against him is the one summed up by the statement "I didn't read 5/7 books only to just now get introduced to such a major player or have such an massive-yet -un-hinted-at twist show up". | ||
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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
On June 17 2013 11:38 Requizen wrote: Well, most people thought the same about Ned, look how that turned out. The only ones I think are truly "safe" are Jon and Dany. Only because their storylines have been so disjointed from the rest of the series that he can't really kill them off, because they haven't done anything yet. I could see Arya or Tyrion killed as a shock, though. It's not likely, but it's far more likely in my opinion than Dany or Jon. The only ones I think are truly safe, for the time being, are Tyrion and Arya. Dany could die if somebody replaced her and continued her plot momentum. I don't think it's likely, but I don't believe she's going to live as long as some people I know assume. Jon, on the other hand, should be safe for a while, because I don't see GRRM killing off a character then reviving him then killing him off again a short time later. On June 17 2013 13:00 bittman wrote: Surprised people see anyone as safe. Jon and Dany included. I mean, maybe safe for now. I imagine they're at least safe until book 7. Nothing in any prophecy says they live happily ever after. My safe list guess for the entire series (for bigg-ish names) reads: Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickon, Podrick, Theon, Gendry, Sam, Tommen. Littlefinger, Melisandre, Varys, Cersei, Jaimie, Jorah, Aegon, Roose, Ramsey, Euron, Victarion, Walder Frey, Mance, Stannis all dead or highly likely imo. Jon, Dany, Reeds, Davos, Asha idk. I'm sure everyone's list is different. Yeah, personally nobody is safe at the end, not even Tyrion. I think Littlefinger has a good shot at surviving just because everyone would hate to see that. And I don't think we can say anything about Varys. Not sure about the Greyjoys either. I think your safe list looks pretty good (besides Tommen). I don't think kids are safe from virtue of being kids, but kids are correlated with not having added enough to the story yet (especially the Starks, Bran/Rickon/Sansa need to do so much more), and not all of them can be red herrings. On June 17 2013 17:57 JSK wrote: I didn't mean it makes it predictable for viewers, but that it takes away from the anything can happen at any time feel of the book (if things are preordained) I'm not that bothered because it isn't that black and white, was just a thought. I don't see the conflict. Anything can happen... just because some magic out there can already know what will happen doesn't change that. Like... take this as a thought experiment: say we take our universe and we could run it many times, in some controlled environment superverse. Even if our universe ran the same way every single time (same events, same history), that doesn't change the fact that from where we're standing, from our POV, "anything can happen." Just because we're destined to make a choice doesn't mean we're not choosing that choice. I know most people don't like that whenever I try to argue it, so I'll also offer something else: There are some events in ASOFAI that fall under the category of prophecized and some that don't. The prophecized ones must occur, but everything else varies. E.g. Cersei must die after her children die, but if her children all die tomorrow maybe she has control over whether she lives for another day or another thirty years. Plus, maybe the ambiguous prophecies must occur in some way, but can be fulfilled in many different ways. Personal, just-for-fun theory: Prophecies only become true the first time that anybody relevant to the prophecy finds a valid interpretation of one. So as soon as Dany or someone close to Dany comes up with a full and fitting explanation of "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.", that explanation becomes the real one. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
I just think Aegon's place in this story is to challenge heredity as the determinant of succession. He's been engineered to be the perfect ruler, he has the support, yet he doesn't have the blood. He's what the realm needs, but his right to the throne is all a lie. Yeah, that sounds like a GRRM twist to me. I'm almost certain Aegon will claim the throne. The Tyrell/Lannister alliance is going to hell, their allies are pretty much all tied up, the leadership is in disarray, and the realm is still recovering from a war. Not to mention, Dorne is likely to rally to Aegon's cause given past relations with the Lannisters. The thing is though, I don't see Aegon holding the throne until the end of the series. He just seems too perfect, their has to be some conflict and him being an impostor could be it. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12491 Posts
On June 22 2013 03:36 MajuGarzett wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/156odh/spoilers_all_complete_analysis_of_the_blackfyre/ That's a summary of most of the supporting info. This was an interesting read, thanks. Note that Meribald's story is the only thing that necessitates an actual Blackfyre descent. The GC only need to be convinced that Griff is a Blackfyre descendant, there's no need for their conviction to be accurate. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32754 Posts
On June 22 2013 04:11 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: The evidence isn't strong enough to support Aegon being a fake, it's more that it would just fits imo. I just think Aegon's place in this story is to challenge heredity as the determinant of succession. He's been engineered to be the perfect ruler, he has the support, yet he doesn't have the blood. He's what the realm needs, but his right to the throne is all a lie. Yeah, that sounds like a GRRM twist to me. I'm almost certain Aegon will claim the throne. The Tyrell/Lannister alliance is going to hell, their allies are pretty much all tied up, the leadership is in disarray, and the realm is still recovering from a war. Not to mention, Dorne is likely to rally to Aegon's cause given past relations with the Lannisters. The thing is though, I don't see Aegon holding the throne until the end of the series. He just seems too perfect, their has to be some conflict and him being an impostor could be it. When I read about Young Griff, something about him surviving in the most miraculous way just left a bad taste in my mouth. It doesn't seem very GRRM-ish to let someone survive like that. It just makes more sense for Aegon to be a Blackfyre, with the female bloodline continuing in Essos, and a sudden claimant to the throne who can't really prove he was whisked away by Varys. It makes for a better twist too, imagine Jon Connington's face when Varys or whoever pronounces Aegon Blackfyre the ruler of Westeros, not Aegon Targaryen. | ||
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Brosy
United States254 Posts
On June 22 2013 01:53 Nebuchad wrote: Aegon isn't Dany's brother, he's Dany's nephew. Also every one is assuming that the three heads of the dragon must be the three dragonriders. I think that's a mistake; you don't need to be a Targ to ride a dragon, as George said himself. Three heads of the dragon simply means that there must be three branches of the Targaryen house for a specific prophecy to be fulfilled, a prophecy that we haven't heard yet. Rhaegar and Aemon, when they read that in his own little prophecy book that Sam will probably find in Oldtown, became concerned that there were only two branches (Aegon and Viserys), so Rhaegar went after Lyanna to create a third (Jon). Now all the bastard topics become really important, because we have potentially more than three heads. If Tyrion is the bastard of Aerys, which seems likely, then that's a head that Rhaegar didn't know of. If Aegon is a fake, then he's no head. Now if Aegon is alive and Tyrion is a Targ also, then that's four heads of the dragon, one too many, and Rhaegar pwned the prophecy he was trying to accomplish by fathering Jon where there was no plan in prophecy for Jon to be fathered. I've never understood this particular theory, in the book it mentions Aerys taking liberties during the bedding, which makes Tyrion a Targ impossible since he was last. It just seems like Tyrion fanboys hoping that he is a Targ because they want him to be one. | ||
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